E264 - 페트라 포드(Petra Ford) - "압박 속에서 번성하기"

Like I said, the entire time they're in the ring. Can you just, um, kind of explain what you mean? Kind of the differences between like, what's the difference between having it be pressure versus a distraction? So, um, and for me and my planet, um, if my dog hears or sees something that they're kind of curious about or interested in, right. Then they're going to want to look over there. Hey, what's that person doing? Or I smell food or look, there's a dog over there. Um, to me, pressure is if I sit my dog and I'm going to leave my dog and my dog has a ring gate behind it, a ring gate on the other side and a judge standing next to it on another side, the dog is going to want to get out of there. They're not going to be comfortable there. They're, it's very uncomfortable. And all they really want to do is either escape or just kind of what my zeal used to do, which is freeze like a deer in the headlights, um, kind of in a panic. Um, so I think they feel very different to the dog, um, emotionally, in my opinion. I think that, um, if there are distractions and you teach a dog not to look at those distractions and you keep it in a certain way, then the dog saying, Oh God, I shouldn't look will also add pressure. Right. Um, but the way I view it with my own dogs is like, if my, you know, Zaina is like, Hey, who's that? That's, that's just her being a nosy pants. Um, yeah. So that's a distraction versus pressure. It would be if she felt like she, she's having trouble coping rather than curiosity, kind of. Correct. Yeah. Cause she'll just be, not be concerned and not, she's not doing it, um, to, you know, as, as a displacement behavior, she's just plain old like, Hey, who's that over there? And Zesty's young. So he'll do that. I'll be training him, let's say in front of the supermarket. And all of a sudden, uh, he hears a novel sound and he just, he doesn't look upset at all. He's just very curious. It's like, he whips his head. Oh, what's that? I haven't seen something like that before. Um, so he's not, um, in distress at that time and he's not, um, feeling pressure per se. He's just, he's just distracted. He's just not used to ignoring things in the environment. Gotcha. Yeah. So if an error occurs in the ring, that might be because of pressure or if an error occurs in training, even, I guess that might be because of pressure. How do you tell if it is pressure versus if the dog was, um, you know, if there's a training problem or something else causing the mistake? Yeah. So basically first I would have, I would either myself or have the student.

So this happened, um, dog students, dog did not drop on the drop on recall. It just came running in. And so the student in their mind, it was a failure to drop. The dog did not respond to the signal, which is true. However, after I watched the video, I thought it might be pressure. So we just put the dog in the middle of the building. I was nowhere near the dog. There was no pressure on the dog. Whatever did the drop on recall, the drop dog dropped beautifully. Um, then we redid it and I kind of put the dog in a corner, um, with me kind of standing next to the dog. And then as she called the dog, I started walking behind the dog. I wasn't trying to scare the dog. It was just adding pressure to the exercise and the dog did not drop. So then that to me made it very clear that it was not a failure to drop per se. Like as the dog didn't understand the cue, it was the dog was trying to escape the pressure. That makes a lot of sense. And I think it's really interesting to kind of tease things apart that way, right? So that you can kind of figure out what piece of the puzzle is it that you really need to work on. Um, so what can we do in it? Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. So I just think that's super important, right? Because if you were to, for example, deal with it as a failure to drop and then put pressure on the dog to drop, now you're adding pressure to pressure. And that can be really unfair and bad for the dog. So I always, whenever a dog makes a mistake, first thing I want to figure out is why, what's the underlying cause of the mistake? Because depending on the underlying cause, I would have a pretty, very different strategies to address the error. Right. So in a situation like that, what can we do? Like how do we better prepare them to deal with that kind of pressure, especially if it's inevitable in the ring? Yeah. So the way we used to teach them was basically just suck it up and stay there and pay attention to me because we really didn't identify pressure. So, um, zeal, uh, was, is, was a super, super, super, um, sensitive dog in general, extremely pressure sensitive. So I didn't want to teach him to just stay there and handle it. Um, I wanted to change his, um, emotional response. So I wanted to change his CER from panic to happy. So I wanted pressure to actually cue a positive emotional state instead of pressure cuing a negative emotional state. Um, so I puzzled that out and I said, well, then I have to make everything a game and I have to teach him that when pressure comes, you're going to get released off the pressure and I have to set it up in a way so that my dog is correct, correct, correct.

And it's constantly winning. And I have to pair it with something that the dog finds, um, very, very motivating and something, um, like I use a mat or a, like a platform and then transfer it to mat. Cause my dog has massively good feelings about that piece of equipment. And so if I put it in the situation and use it correctly, um, it contributes towards him feeling, um, really good. And then I didn't only want my dog to stand there in the pressure. I wanted my dog to move into the pressure again, not in a way that would stress the dog or put more pressure on the dog or overwhelm the dog, but in a way that put the dog in control and ended up making it a super fun game. Um, so I had some techniques for already in place for a dog moving forward into pressure. So like when you're healing a dog towards a wall or towards a corner, a dog's naturally going to drop their head and hold back. Right. I mean, they don't want to run into the wall. So I would do games like touch it, run up, heal to the wall, and then have my dog touch the wall and hit the wall. And the dog thought that was great fun. And so then when I healed towards the wall and halted or towards the wall and turned, my dog was like, Ooh, this is super fun. Every time we go to the wall, instead of my dog saying like, Oh gosh, what is this thing? I'm not, you know, I'm supposed to avoid it. Um, which is the old ways they would see the wall and they'd be like, Oh, Oh, I'm not supposed to look at it. I'm not supposed to look at it. Um, but you know, that was kind of a stressy way to deal with it. Um, so then I had to invent games for them to back into the pressure, um, and handle pressure at, uh, it's super hard for them to handle pressure when we leave them. Um, so command discrimination, right. Or signals, recall, drop on recall. We're leaving the dog alone without us. Um, and then they're in this pressure. Um, so I wanted to teach them that, uh, that was to teach them to be okay with being there, to be happy with being there and to, um, feel comfortable backing into that pressure as a game. Gotcha. So your, um, class thriving under pressure is running in the April term. Um, and it's currently open for registration. Um, are there skills dogs need kind of before taking it or the things they need to know before they can start working on this? Do they need to be a certain age? No, I started this. So once I figured this all out and kind of, you know, spent enormous amounts of time thinking through and coming up with all these games, um, when I got my puppy zesty, I said, well, they're just games, right?

So I may as well start doing with that, them with him immediately. And it, you know, that's the perfect time to do it. Actually, not that it doesn't work later. I mean, I start, I taught these things to zeal when he was a fully trained dog of, I think he was like eight, eight and a half. Um, and it totally changed him. But starting with my puppy, it's just a breeze for him because to him, it's just a whole bunch of games. And sometimes people are around and sometimes gates are around. And, um, I take them to all kinds of places and do the games like in tractor supply and home Depot and, um, matches even when he was young. And he just thinks they're, they're just games to him. So, but he's already learning to have a positive association with pressure to back into pressure to move forward into pressure. Um, and that pressure cues something positive instead of something negative. So I know you specialize in obedience. Um, but obviously obedience isn't the only sport where pressure kind of comes into play. Um, would you expect the games to have some carryover for other sports? You know, is it, is it worth it for folks who maybe aren't looking at obedience to consider the class? Yep. I think it's, like I said, they're mostly games. I think someone already emailed me and said they do agility. I'm super excited about that. I think it's, um, any dog in any sport that competes, I feel is going to feel some sort of pressure at some point. Um, and so these games pretty much can be adapted to any sort of pressure that they would feel in any sport. It just might need a tiny hint of creativity. Um, but I really don't think it'll be super hard. So I'd be thrilled to have people, um, from different sports because that would make it, um, super fun and super interesting for me. Yeah. It's always fun to, uh, have a chance to get a little creative. Um, so I want to shift gears and, uh, talk about the utility stuff. So prepping for utility obedience. Um, so kind of just start off. What is it about utility that so many teams often tend to, I guess, kind of think of it as super intimidating? That's the right word. But. Well, I think first and foremost, people label, uh, utility, they call it futility. So I don't think that's really right. Right. Right. And I'm the kind of person that when I started training and everyone called it futility, I, I was determined that utility was going to be my dog's best class. And it, to this day, it's my favorite class to this day. My dogs are better utility dogs than open dogs. Um, because I think just because of that.

And I also think that the class is challenging because the exercises are more complex. There's a lot of work away from the handler. Um, and I also think that people have this mindset, like it's hard. And then as soon as things start to go awry, which they always will, no matter what you're training, no matter what sport you're in, um, people kind of start to panic. Um, and things with utility tend to get very serious, you know, this is a very serious class. And I feel that if people just teach it, like it's a, like trick, I break it all down into tiny pieces and I make, make every piece of fun trick. And when each of the pieces are really fluid and the dog is really having a good time with each piece, I start putting the pieces together. But even once I have a fully trained dog and all the pieces are put together, I constantly break it apart and just train the pieces. And I think that keeps it very fun and manageable for both the dog and, um, the trainer. For those kind of less familiar with obedience or even maybe just less familiar with kind of the upper levels. Um, can you talk to kind of what the exercises are for utility? Sure. So, um, there's this signal exercise, which is basically a standard healing pattern. The only difference is you're not going to verbally tell your dog to heal. You're just going to use a hand signal. Um, so you, and it doesn't end in a halt. It ends in a stand. So you give your dog a signal, not a verbal to stand a signal to wait. You go to the other end of the ring on the judge's hand signal. You, um, cue your dog to down, then sit, then come to front all with hand signals and then go to finish. Um, so I think that exercise is super challenging because it's long, right? So like a healing pattern is challenging enough. Now you add all that and you're leaving the dog, right? So you're leaving the dog out there by themselves. And so that's really challenging. Um, then there is the directed jumping exercise where the dog has to run straight as an arrow, preferably up the center of the ring. And on the handler's cue, which ideally is given so that your dog turns super tight and sits instantly, um, about five feet before you get to before the end of the ring, before the ring gate. Um, so that's the first part, but then, um, the judge will tell you to take one jump or the other. So the dog has to jump a jump, come to front and then finish. And then the dog has to do the whole thing again and jump the opposite jump. So, um, I think the biggest challenge with that one is the dogs running away and leaving

the handler and teaching a dog to run up the middle is kind of, is a very abstract concept. And I think, um, a lot of people think it's easier for the dog than it really is. And a lot of times I don't think they're teaching that piece clearly enough and generalizing it enough, right? Cause, um, the problem is it looks crystal clear in your yard and then you go somewhere else and it looks very different to the dog and they're very confused. Um, so that's a directed jumping exercise. Uh, the moving stand is you heal. And when the judge says stand your dog, you give them a verbal and a signal to stand, walk 10 feet away, turn and look at your dog. The judge does a quick exam and then you call your dog to heal. So that's probably the easier one unless your dog hates people. Uh, then we have scent articles, which is, um, you put a pile of eight. So four of one kind and for another. So your options are metal or wood or leather. I use wood and leather. So they'll put out four wood, four leather. And then there's one wooden, one leather, uh, that I sent. So I rub it with my hand until it's warm. My dog's back is to the pile. So he can't see it. Um, I hand it to the judge. The judge puts it somewhere. And then on the judge's cue, I turn my dog and I send my dog and the dog has to run out, sniff it, find it, bring it back. So again, the dog's leaving you. Um, and then the dog's kind of out there in the middle of nowhere with this scary judge around and they have to, um, pick out the correct one, come back, hold it. Nicely front and finish. And you do that, um, for two cent articles. Uh, so let's see. Oh, gloves is a lot. Well, the order's always mixed up, but gloves. Um, so you kind of set your dog up in the middle of the ring with your back to the ring gate. And, um, the dog does not get to see the Stuart puts down three gloves, one in each corner, one in the middle, and you know, ahead of time, which glove it's going to be. And then the glove, the judge gives you the cue to, you know, what to turn and go get the glove. So you pivot with the dog. You, um, put your hand down to indicate which glove it is. The dog runs, picks it up, brings it back, holds it nicely. Front finishes. It's not that hard. I'm impressed that you like, I can see you picturing it in your head, right? Cause I know people listening don't know this, but like we can see each other and like, I can see you sort of thinking through it in your head and kind of running through the whole run. Visualizing it all. So yeah, it's, it's definitely challenging, but, um, I love a challenge and I think the dogs really like it too.

Um, I think that for sure, if people just really, um, think about breaking it down and just that it's going to take a long time. I think if you try to rush the process, your dog will not be properly repair, prepared, and they're going to really struggle in the ring. I take, um, a very, very long time to teach it. Um, because I want to make sure my dog is super confident on every single piece. Um, and then every, and then what has the same confidence when I start stringing the pieces together, um, before I would even consider, uh, going in the ring with them. So speaking of taking a long time to prep for it, I know a lot of newer handlers, um, maybe wait till they've earned their CDX before they start thinking about, uh, training utility. But I've heard a couple of people now, um, who generally I think of as a little, as a little more experienced talk about the fact that they start working the utility exercises kind of really early in their training with their dog. Um, for you kind of, where do you start putting those foundations in place? Well, so that my first dog, I did kind of what you said, you know, novice open. Then I taught utility, but every dog after that, um, I started teaching literally when I, I bring my puppies home at seven weeks old. And after the home for a few days, I start teaching them. I start putting the foundation in for utility from literally the first day. So I have a whole bunch of puppy games that, um, you know, like I have one where my puppy runs to a little, um, toilet seat cover because it's thick and puffy and they can sit. So they run to it and then they sit on it. Right. Um, so in my head, I'm already teaching my dog to run away from me, like on directed jumping to a target and my puppy's already shaping that they're running and they do a nice little tight turn and sit. And it's just a little puppy game, right? That's not ultimately how I teach it, but I'm teaching them like certain skills. So, um, I teach my puppies to be on a platform and then I walk away and leave them there a little bit, um, you know, a little distance at a time. So they start to get used to like worth signals where they're standing there and I'm away from them. Uh, I do scenting games with them, right? Not using the articles. I use these switch boxes. So they learn to find the scent and I'll do that when they're young, different places. So they're already learning to scent a little bit away from me, um, in different environments. So those are just a few of the things. I mean, I do tons of things. So yeah, I basically start right away and I work on all the pieces, you know, a little

bit as we go along. Um, and then eventually years down the road, it's, they're all, they're solid on everything. So where should students kind of be in that training process if they're considering your utility fund class this term? Um, so they, they don't have to necessarily have to have taken my foundation class, but they should have some foundation, um, utility skills, whether they took a live class or someone else's online class. It's also good for people that are in the process of teaching utility, but they feel like they could use help on some pieces or some pieces are weak, or they just want to, um, put some fun and motivation into some of the pieces. And also for people that have trained dogs that maybe have some problems, some exercises that are weak, some exercises, they would just like them to look, um, better, happier, um, cleaner. They're, they want their dog to have a better understanding of it. Um, so those are all those people I think would benefit from the class. I think with utility, because it's, uh, harder, the exercises are more complex and challenging for the dogs. It's super important as trainers that we're very, very clean with our information and our training. And so I emphasize that a lot because I feel like if you're really clean, it's going to, um, help the dog a lot. Makes it, I mean, it, I feel like that helps the dog in all types of training, but, uh, especially for utility, huh? Yeah. Um, so do you want to share a little more maybe about kind of what you do or don't cover in the class and anything else you think students maybe would like to know or need to know before signing up? Uh, so for utility, so basically, um, I, I assume they know the foundation for each piece. So for example, if we take something like the glove exercise, that's one of the less complex exercises, they should have started a pivot, which isn't to say that if you send me a video and your pivot isn't great, I would help. Well, of course I would help you with the pivot, but they kind of have the pivot. The dog kind of knows, um, has a hold, right? So they understand to hold and not mouth the glove. Um, and so then we just start putting those pieces together, not the whole exercise, but we might put together, uh, the pivot, um, and then marking the glove or the pivot and getting the glove and then releasing the dog. Um, so just some basic foundations. And then I start putting some pieces together. We start doing some motivational games to keep everything fun for the dog. And, uh, we do, we do a little bit of pressure work in there as well. Not a ton, but a little bit. Excellent. All right.

So one last question to kind of round out our chat today. So if we were to kind of drill down all the bits and pieces we've been talking about from the different classes, um, into one kind of key piece of information, you really want folks to understand or kind of take away if they're looking at competing with their dog, what would that be? Um, so I think they shouldn't be intimidated or afraid of working their dog at the higher levels. Um, because it's just that you don't know it and you're not familiar with it. I think it can be super fun. Anything can be broken into pieces. And if you make each piece a trick, um, and it's the same with the pressure work with the pressure work, I look at making each piece a trick in a game. Um, and then it's so much more fun for you and it's so much more fun for the dog. The dog is more successful. You're getting great positive feedback, um, and everybody's happy. So, um, yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Chris Sink to talk about evaluating puppy structure when choosing your next sports dog. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fensi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fensi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Bud. Audio editing provided by Chris Sink. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Thank you. Thank you.