E111: 페트라 포드(Petra Ford) - 오비디언스 링 준비하기

So I just looked at some of the exercises and I thought, oh, that won't be so hard to train. What the heck? Let's go out and do it. So I said, well, I'm going to be a little bit more. I'm going to be a little bit more. I'm going to be a little bit more. The exercises are a variation of our exercises, which sounds like it would be pretty simple, except when you have a dog that's seasoned and been trained very specifically to do things one way. When you put a variation on that, it's very confusing. So that was a challenge. Their heel position is completely different than ours. So I actually had to teach him a new heel position. Again, super challenging when you have a dog that's been trained to have, you know, to be very fluent in a specific heel position and then turn around and say, okay, now I'm going to teach you another way. And you have to learn it that way as well. What's the difference in the heel position? So there they literally want the dog leaning on you. So absolute pressure. So no space. So clearly if my dog did that in AKC obedience, that would be a huge fault. If there is space in the UK, that is a huge fault. Their turns are very sharp, right? Like they're in place. So it's almost like a pivot in place. A very sharp left turn. And they want the dog's back end to move with a lot of exaggeration. For example, on the left turn all the way in and then instantly line up straight. Their healing patterns are super long. They're always different. You never know what it's going to be until that day. They have double abouts, double left abouts, 270s, all. We don't have here. Yeah. And they're very long, like I said. And you don't know. Oh, so they'll do, for example, fast left turns. So they do turns at a fast, turns at a slow. So I loved it, other than the fact that I had to retrain my poor dog from the ground. Very different. Yes. That's kind of awesome that you managed to go so far with it, despite, I mean, that sounds like it'd be quite the challenging goal there. But it sounds like you obviously accomplished it. So how long did it take you, if you don't mind? Several years. It took, I trained him for one solid year for the first time that I went. And the first time I went, I felt, I would say he, again, he was an extraordinary animal that I did not feel he knew the exercises very well. I felt like he knew them, not to the level I would have wanted. But in spite of that, he still managed to be in a tie for first place. And we had a runoff. And it was a, I thought it would be like an American runoff where it would be a healing runoff. And I felt like that of all the exercises was the most solid.

And then they told us it was going to be, we were going to do the entire class again. And then I was a super, super, super bad handler mother. I did not have confidence. I got nervous. I never get nervous. I never got nervous with him. Like I hit, if I did, I hit it very well. I got nervous. I got flustered. And because of that, he made a mistake. But I was still pretty happy with second place. I was over the moon, to be honest with you. I realized I had underestimated the just amount of work that I would need to put into it. So I was happy to come home and put it away. And I did. The following year, Bridget Carlson started pushing me to go with her. And I was like, oh, no, no. I am not doing that again. It was too much work. It was just crazy. So then once she kept at it, one day I took him out. And I'm like, let me see if he even remembers any of this stuff. And this was an awesome, awesome, awesome training moment. It had a huge impact on my training in general because it was the most profound example of latent learning. He knew everything. I hadn't touched it in over a year. I went out and did all the exercises. He knew them better than when I went in 2010. That's awesome. Yeah. So I got sucked in and I went back. And we were like, yeah. It's a good ending for the story, right? Yeah, it was a good ending. It was, you know, there's no rule book there. So you had to kind of figure everything out from YouTube videos. Things changed and we didn't know they would change. Like the first few years they had their go outs were to, they set it up like a triangle of objects. And I say objects because it was different every year and you never knew what it was going to be. So I trained him to run between two objects to the third objects. And it's at a huge distance. The ring is gigantic. It's like the size of like three or four American rings together. So I went all over and trained him and he was rock solid at like a hundred yards. I went to parks all over the place. Um, we get there and I look and it's not three objects, it's four objects. And they're supposed to just go into the middle of the four, like as if it was in the middle of a square. But we never even knew that could potentially be an option, you know? And that was kind of the challenge with going over there. Like we never knew exactly what was going to happen. So, um, but he was, like I said, he was awesome. I showed it to him. He looked out, I knew he didn't know where he was going. Um, I just talked him into it and, and he went, but that's it. They don't have it anymore, which is kind of sad, but kind of a relief. No more pressure to do it again.

So I guess we could say that you're not only the first, but you're the only American to, uh, to win the obedience world cup, huh? First and only, yes. So kind of looking at the things you've done for FDSA, I, it seems like you've really kind of broken down some of the pieces of trialing and obedience. Um, I know you did something on pre-cues and we have something coming up on ring entrances and it really feels like you just have a plan in your head when you trial. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about that. Is that intentional? And if so, can you kind of walk us through it? It is intentional and it's evolved over time, just in an effort to always, um, be of more assistance to my dog and make things more clear for my dog. And to always, um, to bridge that gap between getting, um, what I have in training and getting the same thing in the ring, which is kind of my personal holy grail, just because it's, you know, it's difficult and it's kind of elusive. Um, when Tyler was very talented. So my pre-cues, for example, at the time where I, everything looked the same. So for example, when I set him up for, uh, signals and I set him up for a moving stand and I set him up for heel free, I looked the same physically and I just gave him a verbal cue and assumed that, you know, he would pick up off of that. Fast forward. So, um, when I started training zeal and I set him up for some of the exercises, he started to do something very similar to what Tyler did. Like he would roll his eyes and act a little odd. And I was like, well, that's fascinating. That absolutely means I'm doing something in my training that's causing that. Um, and so I figured out that it was confusion. Um, zeal wasn't sure until we got partway into the exercise. In spite of my verbal cue, what, what exercise we were doing. Um, so then I started to add physical cues to go with the verbal cues so that, um, he would know ahead of time, which exercise we were doing. And that, um, helped him tremendously because he's a very nervous, insecure dog. And that really helped him a lot. So I teach my dog very specific pre-cues for every single exercise. I do them in training every single time I do that exercise. Um, and then I do them in the ring and then that really, you know, helps my dog cause he knows exactly what's coming next. So that's for the pre-cues and, um, yeah, I have everything planned out like from my warmup all the way through my ring entrance. How I'm going to do the ring entrance. That change varies between dogs. Um, how I'm going to get from point A to point B.

Because when you watch teams in the ring, the vast majority of dogs know how to do the exercise. I can tell they know how to do the exercise, but then why do they struggle? Um, because they, um, lose connection with the handler, um, going into the ring and between exercises. And then by the time the handler, um, sets them up for the exercise, they're struggling to regain that connection. And then that bleeds into the exercise. I put huge emphasis on ring entrances, transitions, and pre-cues, because I really feel that really makes a difference in terms of getting the same performance in the ring that you have, um, when you train. You said you put emphasis on pre-cues and ring entrances. Are there other pieces to that, to keeping that connection? So I use tricks and offering to keep the dog engaged, right? So my goal is that my dog is engaged with me. And so the old way was attention. So the old way I learned it, uh, you know, the dog, it's the dog's job to pay attention to me. It's the dog's job to ignore distractions. And I don't really believe that anymore. I want my dog to, um, have a say in what's going on. And so it's kind of like a conversation. Like I want him to push me or her to push me and I respond. And so we go back and forth. So I teach engagement for every tiny little piece of every step of everything that happens in the ring. So that once I, from outside the ring until I leave the ring, I never break that connection. We never break engagement. Um, and I do that using, uh, a lot of tricks and having my dog offer behaviors. And when they offer behaviors, it changes their mindset and they kind of feel like they're in control. And, um, when they're doing that, then the environment becomes a non-issue and typically the judge becomes a non-issue. Uh, so I've had, so that's really what's gotten, um, zeal to, you know, where he is today, because like I said, he was a very, very, very nervous environmental dog, uh, insecure dog. Um, and so I do that with all my dogs now and all my students' dogs and it seems to work well. For folks who maybe didn't catch the thing you did for us on pre-queues, you know, can you, can you share an example? When I am going to do the moving stand, I, we stand in traditional heel position. So I take my right hand and I just, uh, show my dog with two fingers. I show my right hand. I say, stand, moving, stand, stand, moving, stand. And then I will, in training, do the moving stand. And then as a comparison, when I do the, um, signals, for example, I take my left hand that's on my waist and I just, um, hold it out briefly. And I say, watch, we're going to do watch.

And then I do signals and then this way my dog can see the comparison. So, oh, when she does that with her right hand, it means we're going to do the moving stand. And when she does that other movement with her left hand, it means we're going to do signals. And I do that back and forth, um, a number of times until you can literally see, um, when your dog actually understands it because you'll give the pre-queue, they'll actually come up and then they'll really, um, perform the exercise with a lot of confidence. And you can see in their face that they understand, oh, this means one and this means the other. I know you've got a workshop coming up on ring entrances. Can you share a little about kind of what you plan to cover? Maybe, you know, who should take it? Who would be a good fit if folks are kind of listening and they're thinking about it? So I think everybody really, um, can benefit from ring entrances because it doesn't matter if you're a novice, opener, utility, um, you know, beginner novice, even rally, everyone has to go from outside the ring to inside the ring. And I think there's an, an enormous amount of pressure, um, when you make that transition, because usually it's crowded around the ring gate. Um, the ring gate is usually right next to the stewards table. So, you know, there's a lot going on there. The ring gates themselves are a narrow space and you're walking towards a judge and into a space where your dog has not been before. And even if it's in your own training building on that day, it's going to smell different, look different, sound different. Um, so I work super hard on ring entrances that are fun, that bring the dog up so that when you move into that space, you're not starting off behind the eight ball and you're moving in with a dog that's happy and confident and, um, fully engaged and ready to go to the next exercise, to the first exercise. I'd kind of like to, I don't know if it's really changing gears, but I'd love to talk a bit more about your background. Um, how did you originally get into competition obedience? I'm a physical therapist. And at the time going back many years, I found out that there was a thing called a therapy dog. And in order for a dog to be a therapy dog, they had to do some basic exercises. So I had a pet dog at the time and I thought, oh, this would be a really cool thing to do. So I looked in the yellow pages and, uh, there was a local club that gave basic, you know, obedience classes, like in a firehouse or something. Um, so I went there, I got, I learned the basics to get him certified to be the therapy dog.

Um, and then I decided to take my younger dog as well. And while I was there learning the basics, they introduced me to obedience and said that this was something that, you know, I might be interested in. And they had basic, you know, classes for novice. Um, unfortunately I didn't realize at the time that there was more than one way to train a dog and they were the, um, pop and jerk method. It was actually, um, with my younger dog, a pretty horrific experience so that I pretty much walked away and said, there is no way I'm doing this obedience stuff. Cause I don't want to do this to my dogs. And, uh, but I did want to do something with my dog. So, um, I looked up agility. I went, uh, found another school and I went to do agility lessons with my young dog. And while I was there, someone said to me, oh, well, you know, we do it differently here. Perhaps, you know, maybe you should take a private lesson. And I did. And so, and that's when I was introduced to food. It still wasn't purely positive, but it was a lot more motivational. Um, it was a lot much kinder than where I had been prior. And then after that, I just, you know, um, learned more and more and just moved away from, um, aversives completely. Was there, was there a turning point in there, which for you was like, okay, well, I'm not going to do that stuff anymore, or I don't want to, you know, be involved in that. Um, kind of what, what really got you started or pushed you along that path to, to make you a positive trainer? Um, because when I was training, uh, Tyler, he always gave me 200%. So if there was a, if he was doing something that wasn't correct, or for instance, if he gave me a loopy turn and sit on the go out, or if he made a mistake, I knew it wasn't, um, because he wasn't trying, right? So he was trying. So what did that mean? That meant that it was my fault, right? Like I hadn't given him the right information. Cause if I had, he wouldn't do it. Um, he just wouldn't because of that. I, I, when I would have, um, you know, take lessons and an instructor would say, we'll do this. I would say, no, I won't do that because I know he's not being naughty, right? He just doesn't understand. So I have to figure out another way to explain it to him. And in that process, I realized that I really didn't need to use force and I didn't need to, to, you know, to do it. And he, I just had to, um, I just had to think outside the box, look to all different resources, experiment, and come up with a way to explain it to him that he understood. And so then when I got my next dog, I was going to do field work with that dog.

And I clicker trained him right from the beginning, you know, for obedience. And at like six months, you're supposed to force fetch. And I, I said, I was like, oh, well, that's what you're supposed to do. And I sat in my garage with him and I had taught him hold. I did all the steps, right? I knew exactly what I was doing. And I sit down to, to force fetch him. And it just went horribly awry. Like he completely freaked out. So I sat there and I'm like, well, that's really odd. What am I doing wrong? And while I'm sitting there on the bucket, pondering with the dumbbell in my lap and the dog sitting across from me, and I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. He picks up the, um, dumbbell, um, the bumper, I'm sorry, the bumper pushes it up to my face and clear as day, he was saying to me, just tell me what you want and I'll do it. You want me to pick it up? I'll pick it up. And I said, okay, that was it. And I never, that was, that was the last day. Never force fetch, never prong call or nothing. Um, just let it off. Cause I realized I don't really need to do it. You know, they're willing, they want to do it. I just need to be a better trainer, you know, and anytime, um, to this day, I hit a snag and I feel like I might be stuck. Um, I just, you know, I think it's exciting because it means that I need to think outside the box. I need to explore. I need to look to other, um, resources and it'll just make me a better trainer in the end. So there are three questions I try to ask. Um, the first time I have somebody on, uh, so the first one is what's the dog related accomplishment that you're proudest of? The dog related accomplishment. I would say that, um, Tyler was, and because of his accomplishments, he was incredibly well known. And, um, unfortunately I lost him at nine years old to her mangiosarcoma. And as, because when he passed, what, um, my friends did as a tribute to him is we started a fundraiser, um, to raise money for the, um, national canine cancer foundation. And, and we had it for several years in a row. And because he was so well known, we, um, raised, uh, 10, I think like, uh, close to $30,000. I just felt like that was, um, probably the, yeah, I would say that, you know, I felt like that was his biggest accomplishment was that he was able to do that. That's kind of amazing. My, my next one here is, uh, what's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Don't blame the dog. And always think outside the box. And last one, who is somebody else in the dog world that you look up to? Um, I think I look up to every single, um, person that's training their dog.

It doesn't matter regardless of the level, you know, that's just looking to have a better relationship with their dog, to have a better understanding, um, that is willing to move towards positive, think outside the box, try different things, um, make mistakes and learn from them and just, uh, enjoy the time they're spending with their dog. Cause really to me, that's what it's all about. And that's why I do it, right. It's because the time I, the quality one-on-one time I spend with my dog and because of the amazing relationship I get with my dogs. Training. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Petra. This was great. Thank you for having me. I'm always, um, I always appreciate anything. The Fensi Academy asked me to do for them. All right. Well, thank you again. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week, this time with Debbie Taraka to talk about dogs with long backs and keeping them healthy. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast and iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fensi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fensi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Thank you. Thank you.