E91: 루시 뉴턴(Lucy Newton) - 트래킹, 수색 및 구조견(SAR), 그 이상

The bad news is, like everybody that is trying to juggle their own dogs in full-time work, my current dogs are kind of coming out a little bit light on that. Totally understand that. They still get training, but it's probably not as organized and focused as, you know, it has been in the past. I have Indy, who a lot of people have seen in some of my class videos. She's a little Dutch shepherd and I'm currently training her for IPO, which is a new, kind of a new sport for me. I've done it off and on, but she's kind of my first one that I'm really sort of focusing on there. And then I have a young Rottweiler, Jax, who I'm also learning a new sport with him and just started doing agility with him. But yeah, they are sort of my, kind of more my relaxation training right now. So they don't get completely neglected from training, but it's kind of a new field for me as far as not being particularly focused and organized as I have been in the past with my own personal dogs. Right. And as I'm sure you have to be with the veteran dogs and stuff like that. Correct. Yes. So how did you originally get involved in dogs and dog sports? My real original getting involved in dog sports was getting a puppy when I graduated from college. I got an award when I graduated for doing pretty well in college and I promptly took that money after paying for all of my college and took that money and bought a puppy. And got into competition obedience just by the person that I sort of found to take, you know, puppy training classes with. So I got a CD on that dog. But I had always been interested in search and rescue. And that was my main interest after looking, doing competitive obedience for a while, selected a dog and then went into search and rescue with that puppy. So I kind of went from that competitive obedience to really into more of the working world and stayed in that world for quite a while. Did search and rescue, got hired as a police officer, did my police canine work. And then at that point, people started asking me to help them with their tracking. And that's kind of where I got looped back into, you know, more of the sport world is that a lot of my friends were asking me to help them with hard surface tracking primarily, variable surface tracking that people that were doing competitive, you know, tracking sports. So the search and rescue stuff actually came before you were a police officer? Yes. Yes. Interesting. I worked. Yes. So I went into search and rescue and then went into law enforcement. And then because so many of my friends were asking me to help them with their tracking and

I had been asked to do some clinics for sport tracking people, then I kind of felt like after a while it was fine when I was helping my friends. But when I started sort of working with other people, I felt like if I'm going to be helping them try to achieve sport goals, then I should also have those, you know, achieve those sport titles. And that was what really prompted me was to pursue AKC tracking really was to, I felt like, you know, I sort of had an obligation to have those credentials and not, you know, go, well, I'm a police dog tracker. So I should know, you know, about sport tracking. I felt like I should, you know, know what sport tracking really is and, you know, compete to that level. So that was what sort of put me into sport dog tracking. Similar with the detection piece was, you know, it kind of went from training, you know, detection into the, you know, as nose work developed, you know, into working with more nose work people. So you mentioned you kind of got your start in obedience and search and rescue. So have you always been a positive trainer? If not, you know, kind of what got you started there? No, I wouldn't say I've always been a positive trainer. I think I always wanted to be a positive trainer, but didn't really have the resources and the knowledge of how to do so. So at the time that I got into dogs, my only resources were the people around me and that were competing or training and working with dogs. And a lot of, you know, what I saw, I didn't want to do, but I was sort of like in that position that we all, a lot of us get into that we don't know what else to do. You know, we know what to reject, but we don't know what to, you know, what we want to replace that with. And that's sort of the evolution as far as becoming better trainers, I think is finding those pieces of what we do want to replace that with. And of course, once the internet was available, then that really opens up access to a lot more resources. You have a better idea of, you know, which direction to drive to get to the people that you want to, you know, seek help from. Um, but I have to say for me, a big part of me evolving as a dog trainer and definitely me becoming more of a positive reinforcement trainer is my first police patrol dog that really forced me to do that. Um, he was not a dog that really responded well to force and compulsion. He was also not a dog that was going to respond well for me waiting for him to make good choices. Um, so I really had to become a smarter dog trainer because of him. And that was really my biggest push into, you know, where I am currently as a dog trainer

was by him basically forcing me to do so. Um, so I'm exceptionally grateful for him from that. Kind of forced you to learn new methods and try new things and figure it out, huh? Yes. And he was not going to respond to any of the, I wouldn't say bad training is not, you know, was it particularly harsh, but I had to just be a lot smarter. It was inefficient training was not going to work with him. Um, so he really forced me to, and I see a lot of that in both in sport and work that there is a lot of inefficient training and dogs are amazing and they figure things out, you know, sometimes in spite of us, this was not that dog. So he was just going to keep following what his drives told him to do until I got to be smarter and, you know, figured out how to communicate with him. Um, so that was a really, a gift to me as far as making me a better dog trainer. So to bring things back to today, you kind of do a lot of different things in your day job. Can you, can you share a little bit about that? You know, what does work look like for you these days? Um, work right now, like you mentioned earlier is a lot of it is focusing on the service dog program. That program, I take dogs that are either from shelters or, um, other sources and train them for tasks. And then they're paired with veterans with PTSD, um, where they're mainly dogs for like one to two years old and from, you know, like I said, shelters or we get green dogs from different resources, uh, connections for detection, um, trainers. So I sort of get some detection washouts, um, and then take those dogs. And really a big part of that training is the public access, taking them out and train them to go out in public. I also train them for some tasks as service dogs. They have to have tasks that mitigate the veteran symptoms. Um, the tasks are not particularly complex, but a big part of it is the public access. Um, and a lot of times we get dogs that come, you know, with, with various issues. There's a screening process that I do when I select the dogs, but you know, like we all experience even with our like sport dogs, no dog is perfect. They can't find me. I'm still looking for the unicorn service dog that comes to me perfect. Um, but there's always something that needs to be worked on. And the big challenge as a trainer is deciding if I can fix that sufficiently, um, so that dog can go and be, you know, service dog for a veteran. Um, in addition to that, like I said earlier, I try and get out with my own dogs and, you know, get in some tracking and chutz and training or whatever else I can do.

But the service dog program takes up a big part of my time right now. At FDSA though, you're, you're mostly known for your tracking classes. I kind of mentioned in your bio, you started out in search and rescue. So I think that that's kind of another piece that people are probably pretty interested in. So can you just share a little bit about how you got involved in that and what it is in kind of that arena of dog training that captured and, uh, kind of kept your interest? For me, yeah, like I said, I went in from competitive obedience, went into search and rescue. And I always kind of joked and said, it was just sort of an excuse to spend a ridiculous amount of time with your dog. Um, it was basically, you know, really the same thing as what we do with sports is we, you know, you're spending a lot of money and time and effort, you know, on your dog. Um, but in this case, I felt like I could justify that because I was doing search and rescue. So there's some greater good there. Um, and just me as a person, I felt like, you know, that was sort of a good outlet for, you know, all this energy that I wanted to put into working with my dog, that if I can put that energy into the dog and have it do some good, then that was just, it was more reinforcing for me that way. Um, I'm more, and I would say I'm more of a, really more of a training nerd than, you know, than a competitor. Um, I like to compete with my dogs just so I can, I have a goal that I want to work towards. Um, and I'm kind of a perfectionist, so I want to do things really well, but the really, the reinforcement for me is really the training part. Um, that's sort of what I, you know, more of what I enjoy. So, um, that's where it's sort of search and rescue just really appealed for me to just put that energy into something where, you know, that there was a positive, you know, outcome towards it. How does training differ if you're training for search and rescue versus, uh, sports training? I mean, does it, how similar or different are the skills the dogs actually need? Um, like I mentioned earlier, the dogs have the genetic ability to hunt, um, and how we define that hunting. We sort of parse that out into specific behaviors or, um, tasks that we want the dog to do. Like we'll discuss air scenting where the dog is detecting scent on the wind versus tracking where the dog is following the path of travel. But the dog with that genetic ability to hunt just uses whatever resources, whatever skills he needs to be successful in the hunt. Um, so for training for sport, um, we want to focus on more specifically on those, those

behaviors that we want that meet the requirements for, you know, the rules for whatever sport that we're competing in. Um, so for actual work, search and rescue and law enforcement, you don't have quite as many restrictions on style. It's just more of the goal is to get the dog from the beginning to the end of the track. Um, and to find, I start all of my dogs, whether they're going to be sport dogs or law enforcement and search and rescue dogs, I start them all pretty much the same. And then I want to then reinforce the behaviors for the specific skills that I want the dog to have. So if I want the dog to be focused more on IPO or Schutzen type tracking, I want to continue to give them tracks. It's going to encourage a more methodical, careful, slower paced track. If I have a dog that's more going into a track of search and rescue or law enforcement, um, I want, I'm less concerned about speed. I want them to be, you know, more, have more drive to the track. Um, but those are sort of, it's just behavior training, you know, tracking. It's just whatever behaviors I want to reinforce and continue to encourage the dog to bring to the, to the sport or the work. So it sounds like the sport, it's really about kind of taking that natural thing and refining it based on, you know, maybe criteria, whereas search and rescue, it's a little more generalization and you just want them to be able to do the thing no matter kind of what's going on in the world around them. Um, is that fair? Okay. Correct. Yes. And that's, yeah, now it's just really with all the detect detection, whether it's tracking or scent detection, it's more, it's again, we're training behaviors. What behaviors do we want to reinforce? Whatever the dog is doing that gets the reinforcement, the search and rescue and law enforcement dog is getting reinforcement by finding that person on the end. So whatever skills they use to get there, then that's what we're reinforcing. The same thing for the AKC or the Schutzen dog, they're finding articles and they're getting reinforced for finding the articles, whatever skills that they brought to the, you know, to the task that resulted in that success. That's what they're going to do. So that as us as trainers, that's where we can manipulate the environment and adjust things so that they're doing the behaviors, um, that are getting the reinforcement that they want. I know you've got your foundation tracking, uh, one class foundations, tracking, excuse me, class coming up in December, uh, followed by your alerts, developing and problem solving and tracking two classes in February.

Can you just share a little bit about kind of what each class covers, uh, maybe who might be interested in taking them? The tracking one-on-one class, which runs twice a year, it's a little bit of a challenge with the academy tracking classes because we have such a, um, problem with the weather. Weather does not cooperate. So half of the world is happy and the other half is not happy at any given time, um, with the tracking conditions. So try and offer the one-on-one class in December and April to allow people that, you know, in April, some people are still under snow, um, or, you know, in other parts of the world, it's too hot. Um, so we try to bring in the, and then further in the South, as you continue on with the tracking training, then it gets, you get into June and July, get too hot. So try and present this December one for people that have relatively, not completely mild winters, but their weather is, you know, okay for tracking anyway. Right. Um, like, I'm not going to guarantee that it's not going to be cold, but. Right. They're not buried in snow. Yes. You won't be under snow. Um, so that's where they added this December class for, you know, people that are more, you know, in more temperate climates that could get some tracking done during what is winter for most of us. It's a basic class. It starts out, like I said, puppies, you know, um, green adults. It's, it assumes no, no skills, you know, dog doesn't really have to have no anything because again, they already know how to track. We just want to turn that switch on and, you know, let them hone a skill that they already have. Um, so we start out right from the beginning. We do get a fair number of people that come in that want to come in and, um, improve foundations. It's a good way to, you know, some people have had problems with turns. Um, so some people kind of elect to go back through the course and just, you know, sort of build up, you know, the foundation behaviors too. Plug any holes that they have in their, in their training. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And then the February class is the 102, which is a brilliant continuation of 101. Um, they worked really well together. It's a little bit tight to get a lot done in six weeks, but with that 102 track, um, then that sort of gets people kind of headed pretty well in the right direction. Um, so again, I offered that in February so people can jump in and, and take more advantage of, you know, more temperate winters. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then you've also got the alerts class, right? Developing and problem solving, um, alerts. Correct.

That is sort of a, that kind of came about from part of the, my nose work training is, um, people wanting to train, uh, doing a trained alert for, um, detection, which, um, most detection, at least the NSDSW, um, and AKC, you don't have to have a specific trained alert. So when I was working detection dogs, we had to have some kind of response that the dog had that, you know, was their consistent behavior that they did. My drug dogs either sat or down, um, and that was sort of an unprompted sit or down with their alert for, you know, detection, detection. Um, the nose work doesn't really require that. You can just sort of read the dog and, you know, interpret through their body language or whatever behavior that they're sort of naturally doing that they're at source. Um, sometimes people want to train an alert. So that is sort of where the class sort of started from was for those people that actually want to train an alert. This is sort of the process of how you might do that. And there's pros and cons to train an alert. Um, but that'd be a whole nother podcast. So fair enough. So you're telling me you have to be back. Correct. Um, so in this case, that was what sort of started the, you know, the alert. Um, but really what has evolved to is it's become a lot of, um, problem solving for alerts, either dogs that are too destructive, dogs that are too subtle, um, that problems with, you know, what kind of body language, natural body language are they presenting that we can read and how can we enhance that? Um, so that's a big part of it is, you know, fixing the destructive dogs that, you know, are just smashing boxes or smashing hives. Um, and, and it's a really fun class. I, I enjoy it from just from a training nerd standpoint. Um, it's a really fun class from the problem solving, you know, aspect of it, of how in going back and fixing behaviors that have been reinforcing such as box smashing, um, how to go back and, you know, give the dog a new behavior and sort of give them a new, a new way to alert. Um, so it's, it's a fun class from, you know, if you're a training nerd, that it's a fun class for that too. The way I kind of end every episode when I have somebody on for the first time is with these three specific questions. So I wanted to kind of go through those. Um, the first one is what's the dog related accomplishment that you're proudest of? Uh, that's a hard question for me and you already, you sort of, you know, gave me the, you know, the warning that it was going to be a question and I still don't have a good answer.

Um, and I, I guess I would say probably, um, my second search and rescue dog, basically his first actual search that he did, we found somebody who was missing. Um, and so that in itself, like, you know, when you look at it, think, well, that's a pretty big accomplishment, but it's not so much for me, it was not so much that actual success, which was great. I mean, for that person. Um, but it was, came about through some behaviors that were pretty subtle on the part of my dog that I read, um, and adjusted what I was doing based on the information that he gave me. Um, and then it was successful. So that is more the accomplishment for me. I have a similar one for my detection dog that not that we found like a whole lot of drugs, which is really cool and makes for a good picture. But, um, but it was more kind of the, I wasn't as stupid that day. Actually read my dog and, you know, knew what they were telling me. And then it had, you know, a good outcome. Um, you know, and looking back at it, those are the, those are the pieces that stand out in my mind rather than, you know, the, the thrill of being successful. That's kind of neat, actually, because it's, it becomes about the relationship, right? And knowing that, you know, your dog's body language and you know how to read them. And, you know, that's kind of a neat thing. Correct. Because in both cases, both with the detection, the search and rescue, I think back. And if I had not read that information, then those would have had totally different outcomes. Um, because I would have not made the choices that I did with the search and rescue dog. I adjusted my search area. I actually went outside of where I was assigned to work based on my dog's behavior and what they were telling me. Um, and the same thing with the detection dog is that I, again, searched in a different area based on the information that he was giving me. So I have, in both those cases, I look back and go, if I had not went, not stopped for a minute and went, I wonder why he's doing that. Um, then those would have not had the outcomes that they had. That's really neat. So my, my second question here, what's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Um, it's get easier, right? Oh yeah, exactly. So much easier. There's, there's a couple that stick in my mind, but really there's this, all these little, because totally, you know, a dog training nerd, you know, we just have all these little pieces. Um, but really what I find that I use daily, uh, across all of the venues that I do. Um, and, and that's where it's sort of been really fortunate.

Because I really have had the ability to generalize training just because I've had the opportunity to be involved in so much of it. Um, and I, whether I'm teaching, I'll get back to your question, Matt, um, whether I'm teaching, you know, sport dog people or law enforcement or the veterans with their service dogs, um, I'm saying the exact same things. I don't say anything different. I might present it differently. So it applies specifically to what that person's trying to do. But my basic tenants of dog training, I'm saying exact same thing over and over regardless of, you know, who I'm working with. Um, the biggest thing for me that I always think in all types of my training is I always really look to reward placement. Where am I, where am I reinforcing that dog? Um, that's been sort of a big jump in terms of my, my training ability is, um, really thinking about like where the reinforcer is coming from rather than just reinforcing the dog, um, the direction of that. So it's a little bit of a dog training nerd piece, um, but it's, yes, exactly. It's, it's really solved a lot of my own problems when I stand in my training room and go, well, that's not what I wanted. Um, always look to the direction that I'm rewarding the dog. Where am I placing that reinforcer? Um, so that was a real big piece. And I think probably a big part of that was, um, attending some of Bob Bailey's lectures. Um, that really sort of cleared that up for me as far as the, you know, that being an important part of my, my training process, but it's really hard to pick one. That's the one that maybe that's maybe not so much like the best, maybe that's like what I'm weakest at. So I have to keep reminding myself. I'm not certain that that could be it too, because I scratch my head and then go, well, look at where you're rewarding the dog. So it's just, it could be just my training, my flaw as a trainer. I don't know. Obviously not. If it's the advice you give out too. I mean, clearly you're not the only one. Correct. That could be. So last one here, who is someone else in the dog world that you look up to? Um, again, another hard question. Yep. I'm not, I've been in dogs for, you know, a long time. Um, I guess I'm just, and I'm sort of not by personality either, sort of, sort of like, you know, it'd never be like the fangirl. Um, so I, I mean, I get like so much from like so many people, I guess probably for me, the big thing was having worked for Randy here, um, that's really so much of what we learned, what we were doing with our detection dogs that I apply to everything.

Um, my current style of training tracking is really, um, his system of detection dog training kind of just modified to, you know, train dogs to track. Um, but that was such a huge piece of information. The development of me as a trainer is working with him and just really going through this system of, um, letting the dog satisfy their drive, controlling the environment and not trying to control the dog. Um, really setting things up. So the dog is getting reinforced for the behavior that you want. Um, so that was just such a big, a big piece of, you know, my education as a trainer. Um, so I would have to say, you know, from that point that, you know, really grateful for him. So that would be part of that would be, um, he would be one person that I would point to just because it's really, I mean, I'm training service dogs that way and I'm training the detection dogs, whatever I'm doing, I'm really sort of doing it with that same system of these are amazing, intelligent animals that can do the task. We just need to explain to them what we want. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Lucy. This is great. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week, this time with Chrissy Schrantz to talk about fitting training into a busy schedule. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Thanks. Thank you.