E158: 데니스 펜지(Denise Fenzi) - "레모네이드 만들기"

flights and getting their time off work, that if we did end up canceling late, it would be harder and harder for the students to get out. And we felt that we were at a critical time about two months out for people to start making those decisions. You know, I would have a very hard time going on with my life if I felt I had put on an event and people had come there and become sick. And we do, I mean, we just put it out on the table. We do have an older population and we know that the FDSA population, we have lots of retired people who are involved in dog sports. And we have lots of people that I just happen to know have varying degrees of health issues or immune issues. And I think sometimes when, when things get difficult, you just have to make a decision. As someone said to me recently, I talked about the concept of leadership in a webinar that I teach for dogs. I talk about dogs and leadership. And in that webinar, I said, somebody has to make a decision and it's better to make a decision that make no decision at all, even if your decision is wrong. And really, that's exactly what it comes down to in the situation. A decision had to be made. And I felt that it was better to make the wrong decision and then find out, oh, well, I don't know, some miracle happened and they contained it and it's not going to be such an issue. Because at the time we made the decision, things weren't where they are today. So today, like, for example, I can't leave my house. I'm sheltered in place. So that things have changed incredibly quickly. So even then it was sort of, okay, well, the worst thing that happens is I make the wrong decision. And a year later, I look back. But if the alternative is I went forward with something, and then bad things happen, then I feel pretty bad about that. So I felt really sorry for myself for 24 hours. And then we did it. For those, you know, who had already registered, can you just kind of talk through what the refund policy looks like, what that process is, what folks should expect? Yeah. So this is the week we're going to get serious about making it happen. What will happen is you will get all of your, there's two parts to your fees. There's like working spots, auditing spots. And honestly, I don't remember the dollar amounts. You will get the full amount back that you paid to FDSA. The second part of what you paid was a registration fee that you paid to the event company. And it is not obvious that they will be refunding that. So we will talk to them and we will do what we can. But unfortunately, we don't have that money. So you might lose that, that piece.

It's relatively small, but you might lose that piece of your money. And then there's also just some really logistical challenges because of how you get paid. So we have to actually figure out how to get the money back to you. But these things will be worked out as soon as we can. And then we will send out an email and tell you exactly how it will happen, but you will get your money back. Can you at this point, talk at all about kind of next year? The goal, we talked to the Lynn County Fairgrounds, who, by the way, I have to do a little shout out here. They have been just stellar, fantastic in every way. They have tried so hard to work with us as best they can. They are rolling over our deposits to next year. It's minimizing our loss. So they have been just hugely above board. They are refunding everybody's RV fees. They're doing that directly, by the way. You don't need to contact them. They're taking care of that. If that happens, we have to make some other changes for the following year. But the goal is to return to Lynn County next year and then push off the next years. But again, it's one of those domino effect things where everything sort of relies on something else and we are working our way through it as fast as we possibly can. So we'll let folks know dates and confirm location for next year, kind of as soon as we know for sure, right? For sure. Yeah. I know you've kind of alluded to this a little bit already that canceling camp kind of felt like this huge blow. But it feels like it didn't take super long for you started trying to think of a way to replace that sense of excitement and that sense of community. And I really think something pretty cool has started to emerge. Can you talk us through your thoughts after canceling camp and why it was so important to you to come up with something to kind of replace that? Yeah. The morning I made the decision to cancel, I was feeling thoroughly, sorry for myself. And so I was reaching out to people I respect and trust that also are in difficult spots. One of the people I reached out to was Margie Alonzo over at IAABC. And I said, life sucks over here. How's life over there? And she said, life sucks over here too. So we spent the next hour drinking and chatting on Facebook. And I said, I'm canceling this evening. What are you doing? And she says, I'm canceling. I'm going to cancel tomorrow morning. So we, we talked through the ramifications of that. And, uh, somewhere in that conversation, I'm pretty sure it was her. So hold her responsible. I'm pretty sure she said someday our organization should do something

together. And let me tell you, you do not have to ask me twice. I was on that so fast. I said, yeah, you know what? How about right now? And you could almost feel like the, uh, you know, when you go on a first date and you kind of like someone and you think they might kind of like you, but nobody's quite sure what to do with that. And so everybody's kind of like, you do you like me kind of a thing going on. And that's what was starting to happen really, really fast was like, uh, do I like you well enough to like, let's make something happen. And she's saying, well, let's make something happen. And I was saying, I think we could make something happen. And she was saying, I think we can. And then I said, well, then we're going to do it. And she says, we're going to do it. What are we going to do? I said, I don't know. We're going to do it, but we need to do it right now. We need to do it because everything is going so badly and we need, we need this. We need a bright spot. We gotta, we've gotta make some lemonade. And that's where this came from. And so the next 20 minutes, we basically structured the entire camp. We said, let's put the two camps together. We'll do it online. If there's one thing FDSA understands it's online and it's education and, um, said, how, how can we do this? We'll reach out to our instructors and how can we make it international? Because this pandemic is not the United States. This is the whole world trying to make their way. And so we're saying, all right, people are going to have financial problems. How are we going to do this? We'll do scholarships. People, people around the world never get to play in FDSA or IABC camp because it's in the United States. How are we going to solve that? So we're going to run 16 hour days. We're going to run days so long that anywhere you are in the world, assuming you're sleeping for eight, you have an opportunity to join. And right now, maybe more than ever, our community, our dog training communities and our people, we need to get together. We need to connect with each other. We need to, um, we need to find a way to make the lemonade. And so that is kind of what happened. So we agreed that night. I just remember as we're signing off, we're saying, we're going to do this. Yes, we're going to do this. And both of us are just, we're doing this. This is going to happen. It was sort of a, let's talk each other into it. Be sure the other's on board. We're going to make this happen. And I canceled my camp when I got off that chat, she canceled her camp the next morning. And right off the bat, we were both saying

there's going to be lemonade. And that was, um, I don't think that was more than six days ago in six days we did camp. And Oh, I got to say, Melissa, shout out to you. I have never seen anybody work so fast in my entire life to create a website, to create a behind the scenes, uh, volunteer setup that, uh, I understand people listening to this. I'm not sure if you will have seen it yet, depending on once it comes out, but I can tell you the, uh, the structure is 100% in place. If anybody's thinking you can't create a conference in two months, see, that's your error because you don't know us. We can do this. We are doing this. It's happening. And IABC has a very similar mindset and, uh, you know what? You don't ask if you can do it. You just say, you're going to do it. We are going to do it. And now we're going to solve the problems as they come up, but, um, really huge shout out to all the people involved because people are working really hard right now. So, um, staying up late, getting up early, checking stats, reaching out. Uh, there's a lot to do right now. I have talked to a whole lot of presenters in a sharp period of time and every single presenter, you know, they're responding to my inquiries quickly. Uh, people recognize that this is an urgent situation. We, we, we have to make this happen and, um, it's going to be amazing. This is something I told Terry, I don't want a t-shirt. I need a t-shirt because someday 10 years from now, I'm going to look back on that and I'm going to want that t-shirt. So people can say, what's the lemonade conference. And I'm going to say, that's when people got together in my community and we made things happen for everyone. And, um, I think I might have to buy a lot of t-shirts maybe in different sizes too. Cause you know, just in case I gain a little weight or lose a little weight, I have to make sure I've got all my t-shirts lined up for the, maybe a mug too, right? Like a little coffee mug. We're going to make this, we're going to make this work for everyone. So everyone, you know what, go out and get your t-shirts once they're available. They're not available yet, but they probably will be in like three hours. So, so, uh, I guess we're at the point where you've kind of talked a little bit about the thing, but do you want to tell them what it actually is? Oh, oh yeah. The lemonade conference. All right. Well, here's what you have on May 23rd, 24th and 25th. We will start at 6 AM Pacific time. We will run until 10 PM Pacific time. There will be two classrooms available to you and it will be online. It will be a series of

presentations. There will be eight a day. The presenter will be there live with you to answer your questions after the presentations. The participants are a wide range. I, uh, I don't even know what the last count, I think it's well over 30 presenters. Um, not just FDSA camp, not just IABC conference, but we brought in a few other people who said, you know what, this is important. I want to do this too. So, um, we actually ended up growing, which is amazing on top of what we already had. Uh, FDSA has already, uh, we have a huge number of, um, presenters at over 20, um, which is amazing. What will happen is you will sign up for the entire conference and you can come and go whenever you want. So when you're available to watch, or there's a presentation you want, you'll have a schedule of course. So you'll know what's being offered. There will always be two possibilities at a time. We'll be running multiple classrooms. And to make sure that you have that opportunity, uh, don't worry about the ones you cannot watch because after when it's the weekend is over, there will have been 48 total presentations. Those will all be available. The actual recording, not the question and answer portion, but the actual presentations will be in a classroom for you at FDSA. So effectively it will go into your class library and that follows our usual library rules. So that means that for one year you would have access to that and that'll keep you busy for some time. Uh, if at the end of the year you purchase anything with FDSA, a workshop or a class, not a webinar, that's a different library, a workshop or a class, then your library does renew. And that would mean all your presentations would renew for another year. If you are an IABC member, they will also, um, maintain your access there as well. So really you could, you could, uh, only have your stuff at FDSA. Everyone will have it at FDSA because registration will take place through FDSA. If you're an IABC member, you would have it, uh, available in two locations. Not that I think there's any particular benefit to that, but you know, I don't know, maybe it just makes you feel like Midas, you know, with your gold, um, twice the number of presentations, even if they are the same. Uh, so that's what we're doing. That's, um, that's camp in a nutshell. One thing that I think you left off of there is we do have a date we're aiming for opening registration already, right? Do you want to share that? Uh, yeah, but be quick to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm thinking, did we decide April 5th?

6th. April 6th. Excellent. Uh, what day of the week is that? Do we know? Should be Monday. I'd have to go to Monday. Monday. All right. Well, and we have an exceptionally, um, comprehensive and generous program of scholarships. We're still working out the basic price. Um, it's important to point out that both FDSA and IABC are extremely committed to education, uh, over profit. So the price point will be, um, very reasonable and it's being designed to make this work. Uh, in addition, we will offer, uh, fairly generous scholarships and, uh, discounts for categories. So for example, if your, uh, business is being severely impacted because of the virus, uh, that's fine. You can ask for a coupon and you'll get a generous discount. If you signed up for either IABC or FDSA camp, um, you will also get a, a coupon, uh, discount to offset some of your expense. Um, we will have our usual just cause you don't have a lot of money discount. That's sort of an FDSA standard. Oh, did I, do you think I covered it or were there any other, oh, IABC members will get a discount as well. So, um, and there will be an early bird, uh, discount. Right. So let's try to make this work. I think we've covered it a little bit already, but is there anything else you wanted to say kind of on where the idea came from or how it all kind of bubbled up? Um, you know, I think the thing it goes back to is right now, I think we need to feel like we're supporting each other and coming together. And education is a place where people can apply that in their homes with their dogs with it. That costs you nothing. Um, and so the ability to come up with something that people can use and kill some time, uh, because like, so for, like I mentioned, I'm sheltered in place. That means there are no movies. There are, there are no restaurants to go to. Uh, I can't really do anything. Um, and that's fine, but I can train my dogs. So my dogs are getting extra training. I can watch webinars. I can do those sorts of things. And so that will give people things to do while we sort of work our way through the other side. Last little bit here, but, uh, where should people go for more information? The lemonadeconference.com. Anything you can give us in terms of a sneak peek at topics or speakers? Oh yeah, I can do that. Hold on. I got a little spreadsheet here. I'll give you a little, a little of this, a little of that. Where's my spreadsheet? Oh, there we go. Um, some of the topics that are set up, we're going to talk about fitness. We're going to talk

about resource guarding. We have a topic on working with sensitive dogs. I know that's a real issue for so many people. Uh, pattern games. Oh, right there. I just gave it away. Didn't I? Yeah. So, uh, pattern games is, uh, is kind of Leslie McDevitt's thing. So gosh, that makes me think she might be participating. We'll be doing something on imposter syndrome. We know that lots of dog trainers really struggle to feel like they deserve to be there and you do. So we'll talk about that. How about we talk about raising a well-adjusted dog right about now? I know some people are a little freaked out about socializing puppies. So we'll talk about that. And then we have some of our standards, impulse control, recalls, uh, recalls, marker cues. Um, some of you might know marker cues. I wonder who that might be. Uh, we'll talk about motivation. How do you teach motivation? Talk about, uh, maybe consent, maybe start buttons. Oh, here's a good one. I love this topic. Building endurance within work. That's super important. Comes up a lot. We'll talk about pain medication. Uh, Sue Yenoff has talked to about that before and just did a super job and was, um, very appreciated. The biology of anxiety. That's another name that might be familiar. That's Dr. Jessica Heckman. Uh, let's see. Oh, oh, down here. I think that Hannah's going to play with us this year. So she's going to join us. Let's see what she's going to talk about. Oh, no, I'm not going to tell you that's given away the, I can't give away the store. Uh, we've got one of our British FDSA instructors on board. So you guys could play around, try to figure that one out. We've got a couple of Canadian friends that are going to join us. Um, Hmm. Is that enough? I think that's good. That gives them a pretty good idea. You think that gives them an idea? Um, lots of really great people want to come up with some stuff for us. I'm going to teach a webinar, a new topic on positive is not permissive. That's a phrase that I first heard kind of coming through Susan Garrett. Uh, and I just, you know, looking around the world, I think there's maybe some confusion in the world of positive reinforcement about what does that mean? And, um, I think it's a huge error. You know, you can be permissive and you can be a very, uh, forceful trainer and you can be permissive and you can be a very positive reinforcement trainer, permissive and strict are totally different. They have nothing to, you can be a strict force trainer. You can be a strict positive reinforcement trainer. That's just about how many rules you want to have

and how many you're willing to enforce and how you're willing to enforce them. That it is absolutely an error to think that positive reinforcement is not only synonymous with permissive, but that it's even on the same playing field. It's not, it's a completely different category. It's just up to you if you want to be strict or not. I mean, I, I tend to run towards the permissive side about things I don't care about, but if I care, I care. And then I'm strict. Does that mean I turn mean? No, it just means I'm paying attention to those things. So I will talk about that in my thing. And I will give you a whole lot of details and what ifs, what do you do if, and the reason I related to parenting, because my talk will be heavily related to parenting is I've noticed that parents seem to have no trouble being positive with their children. So for example, if your child hits the ground and throws a first class tantrum in target, what do you do? You don't have to beat your child, but you also don't have to let your child hit the ground, throwing things and kicking and screaming. You probably pick small child up and leave the store. Now, for some reason, we have not been as effective in communicating to the positive reinforcement realm that anything you can do with a human child that would feel fair and comfortable to you should feel equally fair and comfortable. And if my dog was in a space throwing a fit, I guarantee you, I would pick said puppy up and I would leave that space. And that is the kind of conversation I think we need to be having. And I find it goes better. People are like, well, of course you're allowed to pick up your tantruming child and remove them from the space. You don't have to sit there having a conversation on the floor. You can leave and have your conversation later if you wish. If your child will not go in the car seat, what do you do? I think the vast majority of us say, well, sometimes things just have to happen. We don't let the toddler run around the car because he didn't feel like going in the car seat. When your dog does not feel like going in his crate because he prefers to ride loose in the car, it's up to you if it's something you care about. But this needs to be communicated much more clearly. So I go through a whole lot of examples of different forms of, you know, what do you do when your puppy's biting you? What do you do when your child's hitting you? If you start thinking that way and if you have some basic grasp on a positive approach to parenting, I think you will be kind of amazed at how quickly and easily you can come to good answers

for raising your puppies. First of all, to avoid problems, because I'll just tell you right now that management, when you have a toddler, you childproof your house. Is there anyone on the planet who has not heard the expression childproofing your house? You childproof your house before the child is old enough to make mischief. You must puppy proof your house. That is, that's a standard because unless, you know, when I had little kids, if you think I wanted to walk around following my toddler, no, no, no, don't touch this. Don't touch that. Protect my vase. Only a fool would do that. You pick stuff up off the table. You don't leave glass vases sitting there because then your life is a misery and who wants to have a miserable life with your puppy? That's why we puppy proof the house. That's why we add areas of containment. You don't keep your child in their crib all day long. You don't need to keep your puppy in their crate all day long. So by drawing parallels, I think it's going to be a lot easier for people to sort of quickly and in real time demonstrate the kind of leadership skills that you need to give for your children or your animals to more easily seed to your authority and allow you to make the decisions without it becoming a big problem. And anyway, so that's what I'm going to do in my, in my talk is walk you through sort of different ages and phases. I call it puppy related, but it's really not. It's exactly the same for an adult dog as a puppy or as a rescue. It really doesn't matter. So that's an area I'm just personally very interested in. I think somewhere along the line, someone got it in the head that when they said ignore bad behavior, they actually meant that. And that's a bit of a misunderstanding. If you ignore bad behavior that has a self-reinforcing component, you better plan on seeing it for a long time. So rethink that strategy, both for children and for dogs. If it's not a behavior that is not likely to just be outgrown, because a lot of behaviors are. So we, I'm taking those off the table, but alternatively, just be aware that if it has a self-reinforcing quality, you're going to see it again. So we're going to talk about all that kind of stuff in my, my presentation. Awesome. And because clearly we're not keeping you busy enough. You also have a webinar on the schedule right now. We're scheduling repeats of your series on loosely schwacking. So for anybody who kind of missed the buzz on that last year, can you share just a little bit about that concept? Yeah. List-lage walking is one of those things that for some

people is just really the bane of their existence. One reason is that a lot of people want to go for a walk, like really just go for a walk. They don't want to train their dog. And dog trainers, you know, I try to reiterate this dog trainers get dogs to train them. That's why we get dogs because we think that's entertaining, but the average person does not get a dog to train it. They get it to love it. And they also want to do other things like look at their neighbor's flowers when they go for a walk and they don't want to train the dog the whole time. And so that does seem to be one of the many contributing factors to the issue with loosely schwacking. But regardless, I decided to start playing around with loosely schwacking after watching some local horse trainers handling fairly high strung horses on the road. And I noticed how they were using their circles. And I started really thinking about what would happen if you let a young horse go in a straight line, how quickly you would completely lose control of them. And what do we do with our young dogs, we let them go in a straight line right off the bat, and we lose control. And they look a lot like those horses. And then people give up, they don't know what to do with it. So I started playing with my own dogs trying to better understand how circles could be used effectively. And I ended up coming up with a technique and approach to loosely schwacking, which is based on circling. I am quite sure other people have done this in various places in the world before me. So I am certainly not claiming credit for that. But I will say that I have made some effort to put this information out into the public space. And I've gotten more feedback on this one technique of training than anything else I have done with the possible exception of pocket hand healing. People have come back to me and said, I took my dog for a walk. And for the first time in eight years, I was able to do that without using a pressure collar, because the dog was responsive. It's a big deal. It's something I feel very good about. I feel like I have contributed something useful to the dog world. And that means a lot to me. So if you would like to learn an alternative method to teaching loose leash walking, and it does not rely on food, if that is something that is of value to you, then you may want to join me, I would love to have you we'll spend, oh, I guess it's $20 or $19.95 to do a webinar. And I think you might pick up maybe a couple ideas that you can incorporate. There are since you mentioned them, Melissa,

there are two follow up because the other interesting thing that happened is that people with reactive dogs started saying, forget the loose leash walking while convenient, that's nothing. What really matters is that my dog's reactivity has plummeted. So that was certainly an eye opener. And I started paying attention. And indeed, this method does seem to have a really dramatically positive effect on reactive dogs. So I started working with a large group of people well over 100, looking at videos, having conversations and doing a lot of one to one coaching and feedback to see how we could apply this in a way that would help reactive dogs. And I think again, we did. And I say we because it was the FDSA student base who agreed to be the guinea pigs and trying things out and incorporating the loose leash walking the basic techniques with other really good techniques that are out there that are designed to help reactivity. So it ended up being a series of three. The first one's just walking on a loose leash. The second one was, oh, gee, look, you can apply this to reactivity. And the third one was, yeah, you applied it to reactivity and it didn't work. Now what? So then it was sort of the in-depth how you might combine this method with other methods that are also effective in the reactivity kind of sphere. So I'd love to have people join me if that's kind of your area of interest. Awesome. And I was going to ask you what some of the advantages of the method are. I think you've touched on some of those. Do you want to tap on a couple of the others? Probably the biggest ones are you can actually go and do it. Like you don't have to walk around your living room on a leash. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just hard for people to do it, to commit to it. So you can actually, it's a real life, real, as a matter of fact, the longer you're out, the better. So if you want to go for a one hour walk, that's fantastic. Because unlike most training where you want the dog concentrating on what you're doing, we don't want the dog concentrating. We want the dog being a dog and finding their way to how it works better for them to be on the loose leash. And then we want the owners to be so excited about the fact that they're walking their dog without it being a horror fest, that they take their dogs out more often and for longer walks. So the first, probably one of the biggest things is you can make progress very fast, you know, being like a normal person, just going out and going for a walk and

doing your thing with the dog. The second one is it doesn't require any special equipment. So ideally you put your dog on a flat collar. In my opinion, that works much better than a harness, but that generally does the trick. And the other kind of big one is it does not require food. I don't use food. And that means that if you have a dog who gets really excited in public and sort of loses their interest in classic motivators, that you can still train the dog just fine without adding those things in. So that, I think those are the things that people kind of go back to and say, this is really what made the difference for me. Awesome. All right. One last question, the one I always leave off on here. What's something that you've learned recently or been reminded of when it comes to training? And can you share the story? I think what I'd like to do, I'm going to change a question and I would like to say, what have I learned about the dog training community? And I'm going to say that I have learned that the dog training community has some really good people in it. Some really warm, big hearted people who want things to be better. And I know sometimes we focus on what we do wrong. And we know in dog training, that is an error. So I would like to suggest that right now, you look around you and you find what people in the dog training community are doing right. The ways they are contributing to each other's wellbeing. I am seeing people teach each other. Well, Melissa, you were part of this. Teach each other how to teach online, telling people what their options are, sharing the handouts that they are giving to their students. At this time, I am watching our community make really kind and community-oriented decisions. And I would like, to really focus on that because it's so easy to get wrapped up in drama and what is wrong. And right now that's not a good idea. So let's focus on what's right. And if you take just 30 seconds to find it, you will find it. I had a conversation this morning where I was offering something to another person who, and we ended up in this bizarre contest of who was trying to do the right thing to the other. And both of us were insisting that we were in the better position to do the right thing. That is the kind of thing you need to be looking around saying, the other person in this case could have just said, well, thank you very much. And that's not what happened. It's becoming, how can we work together and make this happen? So that is what I have learned. I have sort of, it's been a nice opportunity to have my faith restored in some ways.

And there's some great people out there. So look around and find them, say, thank you. You know, take a moment to appreciate what people are giving to you. And before I meant to say something about this, so I don't want to forget. We do have registration coming up very soon. And we have an exceptionally generous scholarship funded FDSA. If you are going to want to take a class this term, if there is any part of your brain that's kind of scared right now and unsure about what your future looks like, please get a scholarship. Please get a scholarship. It is a very simple form. I'm not interested in your finances. I do not want to see your tax returns. All you need to say is that you could use some help right now. If that's all you, that's it. That's all you say. You will get the scholarship. They probably shouldn't say that, but the truth is you will. You will get the scholarship. So take those scholarships. It'll cost you $32.50 to take a class at bronze. And if that is going to make you happy and give you something to think about and focus on for the next six weeks, please take the scholarship. You're taking a scholarship. Does not take it away from another person. You do not need to be saying, no, this other person over here needs it more than me. It does not work that way. If you would benefit and your life would be a little brighter, take the scholarship. Take the class. That would make me really happy. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Denise, and for talking about all this. Thank you for having me, Melissa. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Barbara Currier to talk about foundations for weave poles. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. They have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Be with us. Thank you.