에피소드 10: 줄리 사이몬스 인터뷰

So taking my time with that. It's kind of awesome that he's a Belgian with the ability to kind of hang out and whatnot. Yeah, I actually kind of joke that he's like a golden in a Malinois suit. And when I, he's gone to a couple of confirmation shows, sometimes the only Malinois. And I never even, you know, he just didn't mind people touching him, examining him. I didn't even have to train that. I probably don't even want to admit that. But I will see. You know, he's a little older now. He might, you know, sometimes they go through different phases and, you know, and they go through different periods of time. And we actually have a trial next weekend that we're showing in confirmation. So I do like to get dogs out early. That's the one thing I do like about confirmation is something you can get them into the ring early if they're ready. And they can have some really fun time getting lots of steak and liver in the ring. Hey, you can't beat that. No, no. So I think from reading your bio and stuff, you started out in fly ball, right? Yeah. So my first thought when I got my, bought my first house as an adult in my 20s, I wanted a dog. So one of the first things I did was I went and got a dog. I went to a shelter and I picked out Dreyfus, really cute dog, kind of a big, you know, 60, 60-pound, 70-pound, you know, collie mix. We called him the Dick Clark of dogs because he never aged, lived to 16, almost 16. And he, except for his physical appearance, you know, he just, you know, looked as handsome and young as Dick Clark, I guess. So, and, you know, I don't really remember how I got into fly ball. I do know that I started out in some local class where you just stood in the room for an hour and you got one time up. And, you know, such ways we don't train anymore. You just don't have your dog, you know, unfocused and, you know, sitting there for an hour, you know, while you wait your turn. And I think I started, I got into the Amber Mixed Breed. It's an American Mixed Breed Organization registry. I don't even think they have it anymore. And I could get, like, you know, obedience titles. So I must have been renting, you know, some other training buildings to practice. And there was some people there that were doing fly ball. So I must have networked and met them. Because once I started getting into more, you know, I started going to matches and some UKC trials. And you just started meeting more people. And I got on this fly ball team. And it was neat because, you know, I learned how to teach my dog to hit a box and a ball would pop out. He was really good at fly ball. He was a big dog.

So he was able to jump the low hurdles fast. And he got a run in every heat at the trials. I remember my team members weren't always happy that he got a run every time. But he was, you know, consistent. And, you know, you want the time for the fly ball, for the speed. And I also learned, you know, like doing a front cross. You send your dog down one side and you do a front cross and you pick your dog up. So, you know, I do look back at that as, you know, I didn't stick with it. I still really like the sport. I didn't stay with it. But it was my first time going to, driving a couple hours to a trial. And I remember thinking, well, how can the dog stay in the car that long? What if he has to go to the bathroom? And it's funny when you look back and see we were all newbies. We were all, we all started out somewhere. And, you know, I remember taking pictures of my dog in the hotel room. And like, wow, they could be in the hotel room with us. And so I did that for about a year. Went to about three or four tournaments with fly ball. And then I, at that same time, I was starting to look for my purebred dog because I thought, oh, I like this. You know, but I can't, there wasn't as many opportunities for mixed breeds back then as it is today. I actually was looking at mixed breeds before I got Drak, my Malinois. I was so open to a mixed breed. It didn't matter because you could do so much with them now. But back then you couldn't. So I definitely wanted a purebred dog. And, you know, Dreyfus was great, but he really was, you know, not a lot of drive, very distractible. Now I probably have a lot of skills now to deal with that. But, you know, he liked to sniff the ground a lot. And he was not the easiest, you know, dog to train. And for being new, you know, it was kind of hard. So I didn't do much with him past that. But so I started researching and I was looking for my next dog. And I saw the David Letterman Stupa Petrix on, you know, one night I was watching TV and they had a Belgian Malinois. And I really liked that breed. So I was still going to this local obedience class. And I mentioned it to the instructor. And he said, oh, you should really get a Belgian Traverin instead. So I went to a show in Syracuse, just a confirmation show. And I found one in the Belgian Traverin were on. And I loved them. They were so beautiful. I grew up with Russ Collie, so they kind of reminded me of that a little bit. So I am so fortunate how I found my next dog. I contacted the breeders. They didn't know me from anybody. They had a boy and a girl. And I got the girl from Missouri. Flown to me sight unseen. Her name was Rival.

And she changed my life. And she was just this high drive, just very biddable, bonded to me immediately. And then I did, I think I did bring her to that same dog pet class trainer for a little bit. But I didn't stay long because, you know, the methods were much different. And I heard about a local trainer who I just got her arch on the lab. So I started private lessons with her. And I never, ever went back to obedience classes, the class environment. So, and then so when I got her, agility was really starting to hit the scene. So I got into an agility class right away and, you know, had her ready to, this is when AKC had one class. You would have the standard class you would run into. We would drive like, you know, four hours and you'd go in the ring for 30 seconds and you were done for the day. And so that's how I kind of went. And then obedience, of course, I was continuing with that and private lessons. And then I added agility. And then I had started when she was young. I started tracking. The pet class that I'd gone to was run by some Schutz and trainers. So I would meet with them when they would do some tracking. And so I learned a little bit about tracking, but I didn't stay with them long. And I would take a lot of breaks on and off from tracking. And, you know, so, and of course, nose work wasn't around at that point. But that's how I kind of just, you know, I think I got the bug. I got the dog training bug with Dreyfus. Got the purebred dog that I could have more opportunities. And, you know, she just made it so enjoyable and easy for me to pick up new sports. And so that's how I kind of, you know, you get that first dog. And then it's, you know. Right. You kind of dive in deep and the world opens up to you. Yeah. Yeah. So at what point, I mean, it sounds like you were doing a lot of different things right out of the gate with Rival. Did you immediately know that versatility was going to be something that was important to you? Or at what point was that like a conscious thing where that was like something you wanted to focus on? You know, I do think it was because I, because of her, because of just training and just training her in so many sports, her temperament and her drive was superb. She excelled at everything we did. And she was a great teacher. I mean, I was a novice, you know, I still consider myself a novice and handler at that time. And I really got addicted. I got addicted to dog training. And I know any and all of it. So I just, you know, couldn't imagine just doing agility. I just, I just enjoy the cross training and just teaching such different skills to my dog.

I think I would, I would get bored if I only did one. And I think that my dogs, the dogs I tend to get to me, you know, I don't want to put human feelings on dogs, but I do think they, they enjoy the versatility too. I think they like the different, the different skills and the different things they get to do. So in retrospect, I mean, what are some of the benefits that you've seen from competing in multiple sports with, with each of your dogs? Yeah. So what I just mentioned, I do think there's a cross training aspect to it. I'm not just working on, you know, you know, their muscles for running fast. I'm using their nose and I'm asking for some precision and other sports like obedience. It also gives them breaks, you know, instead of working one sport all the time, they, they, you know, they take a break from maybe the, some of the more strenuous running and jumping. And then they get a switch to something else. And I think I, I just, I found that training in a different sport, you just develop a bond and relationship that's, that's different and maybe a little deeper. You just, cause you have to learn different contexts of things. You're learning more skills and you, and it strengthens that relationship that you have, that you have to, you know, you have this mutual understanding with each other to go out and do these different sports and that you have these, you know, cues and, and, and things that they understand. And there's just, just, it's amazing to know that I, I have, I would, I, cause I train for sports. I don't normally train just to train. I gotten a little bit more into doing some tricks. I think that's great for dogs too. So, so, so just to, just to think of all the ways I can teach my dog to do different things. And back to, you know, when I had the rival, she, she really showed me what was possible to do with a dog and the possible bonds you can have. And I, and I, I just, I just never thought you could do all, you know, do all this with a dog. And I just think that's what made me like the versatility of it to, to kind of challenge to try their sports. You know, so when Noser came along, I did not need another dog sport, believe me. But I, her, her brother had, had started it and I saw a video of it, didn't know much about it. And he passed away at a little bit of a young age. So I was kind of inspired to say, you know, in his honor, I'm going to, I'm going to take this Noser class that I heard about Denise teaching. And before, before FNZ started and she was actually either in heat or she was injured or something. So like the timing was really good. So I use, I use that.

If my dog is in heat or, or, you know, has a minor injury or it's winter, you know, I think of what else can I do with my dog because I can't do some of the other things. And that's actually I got into Noser. So it just, you know, just comes along at the right time for you with the dog that you have. So I'd imagine that knowing now, at least that that's something that's important to you, that you want to do a lot of different things with your dog. When you have a new puppy, which you've been through fairly recently, you might approach kind of those early days a little bit differently. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I think it is a little different knowing what you're going to, you know, train your dog in and compete in. But it's really quite similar because a lot of the same skills that you need across all the sports, like you need your dog to be able to stay, you know, in a sit or a down. You really do. So in every single sport, you need impulse control. You need them to, you know, wait for your cues. They need focus. They need recalls. You know, you just need all that stuff. So that's what I just start building. I tend to train thoughtful dogs. Sometimes that's good. I'm thinking it's like, well, I want more like almost out of control dogs. But I really don't. You know, if I do tend to train, I do tend to teach dogs to be very thoughtful. And I do need to balance that with some of that little bit of edge that I do want from them as well. Let's see what else. But I also like, I approach it by switching on and off. Like I'm not training every sport all the time. You know, nobody can do that. And even since training in multiple sports is also a challenge in itself, I also, you know, I'm a busy day life or day job. I have, you know, a son. I have a husband. So it's hard to fit everything in. And so how I approach it is I just sometimes focus on one thing a month. Like I said, I need to teach my dog to weave. So I'm going to just that month. It happens to be summer. I'm going to just every day go out there and train my dogs a couple times a day on weave poles. And I don't have anything. I don't have really time for anything else. But that's okay. That's just what I'm doing that month. And then the next month I might focus on, I don't know, getting out to new places for obedience. Or then the next month I may focus on teeter, you know, get my dog on the teeter and everything. So it just, I don't really have a good, you know, plan around it. I don't, you know, write it down or anything. I just make sure I train my dog on something most days. And I usually have a focus.

So a lot of it depends on what I might be starting to want to compete in first. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can't, if you try to sit there and say, oh my, you'll get overwhelmed. You'll get overwhelmed. If you're going to try to say, I want to do all these six sports, oh my gosh, you know. And, you know, I don't, I kind of move on. So like once my, once Savvy got her mock two, you know, I didn't need to get a mock three or four. So I just, I just decided she could have still kept running. She was seven or eight or something. But I just, I had other things to do. I had to go work on her, you know, her TDX or her whatever nose work now. So, um, and it's very kind of, I am very goal oriented to, to the title. So that kind of drives me in the, in the direction that I train. Yeah. I feel like that's something I've definitely struggled with. So it's interesting to hear kind of, you can pick one focus now, at least for, for me and for my dog, I've found that she doesn't always retain the information long-term if we kind of leave it alone and come back to it along. Like, oh, she does it. You know, months later, is that something you've had to deal with at all? Well, I, no, I, well, I do think it depends on what it is. If you hadn't, you know, taught something to kind of fluency or, um, then, then you're going to lose a little bit. But I also think they, they, they remember some of it at least. Um, so there are some things I think you do need to kind of not, not drop off, you know, for too long. It depends on, you know, whatever might be stays or, you know, recalls, obviously. Um, I do think of the most part they do remember. Or, um, so in that case, if they don't, then, you know, you might have to just, uh, decide what's more important that you need and, and keep that in. Because, you know, I could do more than just my weave pull training that month. Obviously, I'm in the kitchen. I'll do stays with my dogs. I'll put them in a sit stay while I'm making something. Or, um, you know, sometimes it just takes one minute of training, just one minute or one to three minutes of training a day that everybody can find that. Um, I started to, um, train a little bit before I went to work, um, train when I first, lately with Drac, I train when I, when I get home, he is so pumped and into me because he can't, that that's when I need to train him. Cause he's a young adolescent boy. He kind of like, doesn't have a lot of stamina to focus. So I'm like, Oh, so I've actually had some really, really wonderful sessions and it just might be as much as I can train with a handful of food.

And that's all I do. But when I, but he is now he's 17 months old and he is like, Oh my gosh. I'm like, he's so focused on me. Like I bet it happened months ago. Um, so then, so then because I have that focus and maturity, I'm able to, um, kind of progress a little bit further or, or, or try or teach him something new. So it's, it's, it's, it's kind of give and take. And I, you're right. I know some of the stuff I started with him, like backup, I was teaching him backing up. He doesn't know that at all anymore. So yeah, that's something that I did lose, but that's not as important to me, um, to back up away from me. Um, so I got to get back to that cause I do think it's, it's useful in some areas, but yeah, I did lose that one on him by, um, by the way. I think what happened was I was teaching him some other things like a full back down or something else. And he kept backing up and I wasn't reinforcing it cause I was working on something else. So I think that's why I lost it. Cause he's the reinforcement, you know, I extinguished it. I extinguished his, uh, backing up accidentally. Yeah. Um, do you have any advice, I guess, for other trainers who maybe want to intentionally, uh, train for multiple sports or approach the idea that they have a dog, they want to compete in multiple sports, either for getting started or just kind of for balancing things. Yeah. And, um, yes, I do. So a little bit, what I mentioned earlier, I think if you just, um, don't get overwhelmed and realize that you, you aren't trialing your new dog right away, it's going to, it really is going to be years before you really get them in the ring. And you'd be, and I know like, it's almost like you put a lot of time in those first, you know, two to four years. I didn't bring in my, my, you know, uh, um, rival who got, who got an obedience champion. She didn't enter the obedience ring until she was five. She could have gone in a little earlier, but I wasn't ready. And then once I got in, I realized we were ready. Um, but you have time to bring your dog in. Cause then once you get them into that ring at that time, it goes fast after that. So you, you, you, you, you take that time, you know, I would say, say three, you know, three, two to four years, depending on the sport. And once you get to that point, then it goes really fast. If you start too early, I think you're just setting yourself up to have too many gaps in your training and then you're going to probably struggle and then it's going to take you longer. So I would, you know, number one, not worry about, um, time. It will come when ready.

Also a foundation, like I said earlier, just, you know, work on the foundation, work on things that you're going to, you're going to want anyways. You're going to want the stays, the recalls, the focus, the impulse control. That's going to apply to every sport. And, uh, something that's near and dear to Denise's heart actually is, is personal play. I've had to learn that more so in the last, um, nine years because my first dog rival was just naturally into me. She, I was her world. I didn't, honestly, I didn't do anything to make that happen. And when I got savvy and now I have Drac, other things in the world are more interesting to them than me. So I have had to think about, wait, I got to build that personal bond, that personal play, not relying on food so much or toys. And if you can focus on that and you can have a dog that's totally into you, the rest will just, that's half the battle. And then you can, then the rest is just skill training. It's just skills. And we all know how to train skills. Seriously. We all have the, you know, all the classes and the tools and the, and the, you know, video examples and the people's blogs. You know, we all know how to teach, you know, skill. Some are harder than others. Don't get me wrong. So if you have a dog that you have built up this wonderful relationship with and this wonderful, we all have, I mean, we all have wonderful relationships with the dogs. I'm not even, you know, saying that it's from a, from a, from a, from a interaction. It's in a, it's in a, in a kind of a bonded, you know, come, you know, interaction that you need to build for that personal play around other, you know, interesting things in the environment. So I would say, and I actually really had to grow in that area. And so for me, and I really bring that into my training more where to me, it's more important that I'm going to interact and play with my dog than teach Drac to back up again. You know, to me, I'd rather need him to really want to come, come to me and to play with me. So that's, that's, that's the things that I would, I would have people to focus on. You know, I've seen, I don't remember if you shared a video or if it's on your Fendi bio or what, but I mean, I've seen some of your competition videos and I would never guess that personal play is something that you struggled with. I saw you in between exercises and you got on one of the videos, you got down on the floor and you were like very happy to be there. Yeah. It was really nice. I mean, it was. Yeah, I've had to work. I mean, I think if the, one of the videos might've been a rival and I did make a clip once for

somebody to show what I did between the rings with Savvy and she's, she's very distracting, distractible dog. She'll know the things in her environment, which is typical of Belgians too. They're very aware of people. There's some people they just don't like. And so I really had to work on, on that. So thank you for that compliment. And to be honest, that is why Savvy did not enter the obedience ring for a while. I can't remember how old she was when she actually went in for her, her seed, you know, her novice CD, but she got a utility title at eight last year because I did, I got her when my son was young. I use only two. So I just didn't have the time. I was, I had three dogs and I had my older dog, Dreyfus. I had, did I have three dogs? Yeah. Oh yeah. Savvy was, you know, I still had a rival in Dreyfus when I got Savvy and I just couldn't do it all. I actually realized I cannot do it all right now. So, and that was okay. That was okay. If I put pressure on myself, then it's just going to carry over to my dogs. Right. So, so I appreciate that compliment. So you got there and you got there at your own pace and you got beautiful results. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I know that in addition to teaching for FDSA, you also teach in person, right? Yeah. So I actually, back in the late nineties, I started teaching agility when I was doing well with, with my dog and it was still new in this area. And I found, you know, I found that, that I enjoyed, that I enjoyed helping people and I was in a dog club. So I started teaching through a dog club. And then eventually when we bought our current property, we, the first thing we built, we got, you know, we have, you know, seven open acres. And I, the first thing we did was we built a hundred by hundred, you know, fenced. And so the property was the house I've even started building. And I had this hundred by hundred, you know, fenced. Priorities. Yeah. Priorities. Because it was a lot of deer and everything. And when I first started without the fence, you know, a couple of dogs did take off and that was really scary. So we, we got the fence up. So I started teaching on my own. Um, that was probably back in 2000, 1999 or 2000, year 2000. And then I had my son in 2004 and I tried to keep up, you know, and I tried to keep teaching and I was still showing, uh, uh, rival actively, um, finishing up some of her, um, big titles. And I just, I just, I just had to back off of it. So I, so I stopped teaching, um, and took a break from that. And then, uh, when, when I got savvy into nose work and she got her nose work one title, I immediately was like, I'm going to start teaching.

I just wanted to get that first title and then start bringing it to my area because I, I could tell it was an up and coming sport. There was a lot of, you know, everybody just didn't do AKC anymore. You know, they, they're just barn hunt. There's a lot of, um, other venues of other, um, of dog sports. So I, and about the same time I started teaching at FDSA. And so it's gone very well locally. Uh, people, uh, love, love, love the in-person classes, um, because they can have them for me, you know, so they are, they're spoiled and a little bit. So yeah, so really actually this morning I was, I just hosted a little match for some students and myself trialing next month. So it's a lot of work. We, I rented a building and we had a gym area and another room to do hides. And, um, it's, it keeps me busy. So, um, just so for anybody who may happen to be local to you, do you want to share kind of what area you're in? Yeah, actually I'm in the Rochester, I'm south of Rochester, New York from near, um, the throughway. So I'm actually equal distance between Syracuse and Buffalo. I do have some people that, you know, come about an hour away, but most are local. Ironically, some of them are just like within five minutes of my neighborhood. So we all live pretty close. In Rochester, New York, um, we've heard this for years. We have a really, really big, strong dog community. Um, some really talented people, a lot of, a lot of people invested in, and train, you know, competitively with our dogs. So, um, it wasn't, you know, I, I, I have people in my classes that, you know, I have a few, you know, pet, you know, pet people that started with me, um, people who hadn't done much of the competitive sports. So I have a mix, but I do have, I do have a lot of people that have some dog training experience. Um, and it was cool that they, you know, these are people who do Schutzen and, you know, obedience, rally, agility, like great. They're, they're interested in nose work. Their dogs may be getting a little older, they're retiring from a sport or their, their young dogs are coming up. And it's really taught me that it applies, um, or interests a wide range of people. You know, it's, it's not just for a certain, you know, uh, uh, demographic of dogs and, and handlers. So then it's growing. I, I'm actually can, can barely keep up. I, uh, just recently made a job change, um, to go to part-time. I work at Xerox. I've been there my whole career, um, at a college. And I just decided that, um, I want more time to myself as well as to dog training. So, uh, yeah, so I'm actually really excited about that.

Um, the hours will change in a couple of weeks. Uh, so we'll, we'll see. Uh, I'm not really sure if I'll get more time to myself. I may just get more busy. So we'll see. But I do, I did find that that's what I love. That's what I was passionate about. That's where I was creative. And that wasn't the side of my life that I wanted to cut back on. So I just sat back, looked at our, you know, situation and said, I can do this. So, yep. Now, uh, you kind of mentioned AKC in there and some of the other nose work programs, but, uh, I know there's been a lot of buzz about the fact that AKC has just recently added a scent work program, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, that, that timing, um, um, came quite at a good time for some of my latest decisions. Yeah. So AKC rolled out a nose, a nose or pro program. They call it scent work. And, you know, I think we all expected it to come at some point. Uh, I think a lot of people do like to, to, to show an AKC, um, AKC is, you know, a big organization that probably going to be able to put on more, more readily available trials for people to enter. Um, I love the other nose work programs. Um, I think they do, they've done a really great job with them and I will still trial on them. Uh, but there's people that are in some isolated areas. They're too far for trials. The trial, there's long wait lists. So I think the AKC program, the reason I'm excited about it is I think it'll get more people into the sport because I, I really have found that nose work is, is, it just, it just does something to the dogs. It does something to the handlers. It's not just the dogs that love it because they get to use their nose, but just the people to see their dogs be these little detection dogs. And there's something about it. I haven't quite pinpointed it. I think people like tracking, but tracking sometimes it's hard to find the, find the fields and to get, you know, there's also limited, you know, tracking tests. It just, there's just something about it. And I think it's just people seeing their dogs. Instead of us telling our dogs not to sniff and smell things or letting them sniff and smell things and they're doing it with purpose and they're doing it, um, uh, you know, it's a job. I think dogs are around. I think dogs are kind of bred to do jobs and it's a job that, that comes naturally to them. Um, but there's still, you know, practice and training and skills. You've got to train to actually compete in that sport. So it's just been, uh, something I'm really excited about with AKC program. And then they added this handler discrimination class, um, which is existed in a UKC program.

Uh, so I'm not as familiar with that and from a nose work context, but I, I, I do sent, I've done some articles for, for 20 years and, um, never really, you know, I never really had a lot of problem with that, but I understand that it is challenging. I think it's just more of a mindset of people realizing our dogs really can, can pick up the smallest, smallest amount of smell. And we've got even a small amount of smell. I mean, we're putting a strong, our strong odor on it compared to anything else in the environment. So there's a discrimination that they're making between our smell and, and, and the, and the stewards, you know, smell from touching the articles. And in this new AKC program, you actually have your glove or your sock that you, you know, scent, and then they're going to have another person's, um, scented, you know, item and one of the other boxes to start. So it's going to be a discrimination. And it, you know, it's, it's just like with anything you, you train your dog. What is, what was reinforced? What is the value? So I teach my sense is, is to be reinforced. There's value to that. And to me, this discrimination, um, is less of an issue than somebody going, Oh, I like the, the, the stewards, you know, hands smell better. It's just more that a dog may just want to, they're, they're stressed or they pick up, they just pick up any article. So I think the discrimination part to me does, you know, is, is very trainable and it's easy to teach a dog. Just like with nose work, we teach our dog, these odors, you know, birch, you know, anise, clove, these are the odors we've taught you that are reinforced. Any other novel odor, whether it's a piece of bread or some meat or a toy or even animal droppings, you know, um, they might find that self-reinforcing, but we, but if they have the, the drive for the, for the odors that we have reinforced, then they will seek those out over everything. So, so, uh, yeah, so it is pretty exciting with the AKC program. Yep. And my understanding is you're going to be a judge, right? Yeah, I did apply, um, to be a judge and I was approved. Uh, they still have to roll out. Yeah, thanks. I've never, and I've never entered that, that arena of judging. Uh, so, uh, they'd still have to roll out a, uh, like some online training and, and, and, and a test to take. So we're waiting for that to come out. Uh, and it's exciting because somebody locally who's taking nose work classes with me, she said, oh, we're thinking of, you know, getting this added to our national breed coming up. And she said, I know somebody who's a judge.

So that would be very nice that I could, you know, maybe for some of the local breed shows, you know, I, I'll be, I'll be available and, and, um, to help with that, to get it started. Right. Right. Now I want to change gears a little bit because I know you also do the obedience games class at FDSA, even though it's not in the schedule until October. Uh, I want to make sure we got a chance to talk a little bit about, uh, some of the obedience stuff you teach too. So do you want to just tell us a little bit about the concept for the class and kind of what you cover? Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah. It's been a very fun class topic for me. It's called obedience games. And, um, we added a starter version, which I just ended last term. And, uh, cause I found that my first, uh, version was got advanced pretty quickly. So I, I thought, wow, I could really even break this down more. And that was a real hit. It kind of, you know, took a life of its own and it was just really exciting. It's about, um, you know, being informal and, but, you know, but still being clear to your dog. It's about adding more movement and less, you know, static stationary, um, behaviors, um, less fiddling with, you know, precision and, and, and front. So we're not even doing front. So I'm like, we're not doing front in this class. Every time your dog comes to you, you're going to toss a treat between your legs. Um, and then that just builds this like, you know, center of position and, and your dog is going to continue with speed and they're just going to know, you know, to like go through you, you know? So, and we're not going to worry about errors. I really emphasize that cause we all, you know, you know, we all get a little frustrated or disappointed and I really, really impressed early on that there are no errors. We're just, we're, we're, we're training, we're learning, we're finding out what gaps we have. We're getting information from our dogs. There's no reason to be, you know, upset or bothered. And we don't want our dogs to ever, um, you know, we don't want them to have stress in, in this game. And I think that I'm seeing some people give me comments that they're seeing some, um, people who took my very first obedience game class last fall. They said, wow, I've ever really still use the games. It's really helped my dog in the ring. And I think it's more that it's helped the human, you know, it's helped the human to kind of maybe loosen up a little bit. Uh, and one of the things that I really, um, was, you know, enforcing was, you know,

these daily games that if you just work just a few minutes, like I said earlier, a few minutes a day with your dog, it just, it just, there's just something about that. Cause I can go, I can go days and days without training my dog. I just get busy, you know? And, and then, but instead, if I just find one little, you know, kind of action packed, high reinforcing game to play with my dog, which with a purpose for obedience skills, for example, it just pays off with even your recalls. It pays off with your dog, you know, your personal bond. And I try to do some personal toy and play before every session. So I encourage that for my, for the students to do. And, and then because we're also busy, especially when I'm busy, you know, you can find a couple minutes every day and it really will add up and you will find that your dogs have actually learned skills and they want to work with you more cause they look forward to that time of the day, you know, that you train with them. Um, so I, I, uh, just to really, and another thing is, you know, these scores will come eventually when I, when I, when I entered, you know, my, um, my, my, my, my arch dog in her first trials, you know, we did get good scores, but they weren't going to be scores that got me placed when it takes to get the arch points. But I was just, I was just in the novice class. I didn't need those points yet. So I wanted her to go in there and know her job and, and be happy. And every, I, I, I just, um, um, I just kind of worked at those point deductions that I got. I just worked to clean them up over time. I just, I just said, oh, that's what we, where our gap is. I'm going to clean that up and I'm going to lose less points on that exercise. And that's how I got to the higher scores, but not until I was, you know, further along in my, my obedience competition trial. Cause you've got to get in there. You've got to get the experience. And, um, I just think I, I, I was trying to bring that, that thought process to the, to the games classes. Yeah. I mean, I think that even the mindset, right. From competition to thinking about it all as a game for the person is such a difference and it just brings a more relaxed structure and more fun. Yeah, it has. It's, I was been pleasantly surprised with how well it's been received and, um, I might even have to come up with like a middle level now. So we'll see how I can, I can, uh, I can plan that. And, and what I love about it too, is it complements all the great skills classes that we have at the, at the academy. So people can be working on their retrieves and, you know, whatever, you know, all these

other little, you know, you know, skilled areas, you know, you know, separately, but at the same time, but separate from the little quick little three minute game session. So, cause cause I'm doing that with Jack, believe me, I'm working on a, you know, his, his, his retrieve and his hold and, uh, things like that. So I'm, I'm working those, those heavy duty skill things off, off on the side as well. So to kind of round things out, I want to ask you the three questions, uh, that we've asked everybody so far who's come on the show. Um, so first, what's the dog related accomplishment that you are proudest of? Okay. It has to be just, you know, um, rival my first turf. She became the first champion atch mock turf. Um, that was just, and just getting that arch actually in itself was just a thrill. Cause, um, I just, I went from the novice A classes to arch and I learned so much from her. And I also had my son. He was a couple of years old at that time. And I just needed a couple more, um, more points and I was going in the ring and we weren't doing well. And, uh, I was no longer training in the, um, open class because my dog was now older. She was, uh, um, 10 or nine or 10. And there was a lot of jumping. I couldn't, I couldn't even train. I didn't have time to train a lot. And I didn't have time to maintain that. So one of my friends and trainers says, you really need to enter the open class. So on a whim, I entered the one day that had spots left and open. And we went in the ring and I thought, I'm never going to finish my arch. I'm never going to finish my off in the open class because all the points are in utility and you know, the scores, people get such great, you know, scores, you know, in open. It's so hard to get the points in open. If you look at the point schedule, we went in the ring and that's the one I show a lot. Um, it's in my obedience games intro and we went in the ring and I love to watch it. I watch it if I'm down or something because just, I went in there and I think that's a lot what I prefaced my obedience games class with because I went in the ring, not expecting much. And I just went in and my dog was getting older. I knew she was going to be retired soon. And I have a son. I just can't keep up with everything. I just, I just thought someday I'm not going to be able to go in the ring with this dog. And so I'm going to go in there and we got like a one 99, you know, first place. We got our odds from that run. And then to be, yeah. And then to be, you know, to be a first in something is so hard. And a breed like the Belgian trivia. And now the mock was a relatively newer title.

Um, so some fabulous dogs before her obviously didn't have that chance. Um, but yeah, I am. And we are the first Belgian trivia and champion at the mock. So that was, that's awesome. Very, um, yeah. Special to me. And she was very, and to be honest, that dog was so deserving of that. Yeah. She's, she really sounds like something special. Yeah. So the second question I like to ask everybody, and I think this is honestly one of my favorite questions of the whole, um, podcast is what is the best piece of training advice that you have ever heard? Yeah, I, I was looking forward to this one also. And I've thought, I've thought a lot about it. It's, and it's, you know, we all get such great training advice, but I, there's two that have really stuck out to me and there've been pretty recent ones. I absolutely love Amy cooks. Um, it's in one of her classes, but she also said it at camp last year that every time you train your dog, you're teaching them how to feel. And that just, you know, goes back to some of just my outlook on training also. It's just like, that's why I don't want to, if I stress them out, that's how they're going to feel about training. So it just is such a, it's such a powerful, but simple statement that she made. And I really, um, embrace that. And I share that as often as I can with my students. That's great. And then I have a second one too. Can I, can I have two? Absolutely. Okay. And another one that I really liked was, um, one from Bob Bailey. Uh, it was, you know, he's, he's big on, you know, clicker training, shaping. And he said something that also really resonated with me was, um, you better make a decision because the next one is right around the corner. So if you think about when you're training a dog and you're like, Oh, it just, was that the right criteria? Was it right enough? Did, did I, you know, you, you, you know, you, that your next decision is right up on you. So you, you have to make a decision and it might not be the best decision. It might not even be the right decision. You probably made a wrong decision, but you have to make a decision on whether you're going to click something or reinforce something because the next decision is right around the corner. And it's okay. You look at all, all of us trainers, we make, we don't, our timing is off. We, we accidentally clicked something we weren't supposed to. Look how resilient our dogs are. They recover. They, they, you know, um, they're fine. So I just really like that, that, cause I think some people, we, we freeze up, we freeze up in the training and we don't know what to do. That's okay.

Do something because you're going to have to make another decision like another second later. So I really, I pulled that off of a DVD I was listening to and I, I never wrote it down exactly what he said, but I just remembered that concept. So those are my two. That's awesome. So for our last one, who is somebody else in the dog world that you look up to? So this is of course the hardest question I think everybody has had. And I've, you know, I've thought about it also. So this is obviously tough because I've, I've learned so much from people local and afar is the plus because I work in so many different, um, sport areas. There's just so many, you know, multiple, uh, it just multiplies how many people I've worked with. I think I would, I'm going to say that I do look up to anyone that thinks out of the box and is willing to try something different. Uh, I, I just think that sometimes we all get kind of stuck in an, in an, in an area in a way that we do things. And I think somebody who's willing to, you know, just kind of maybe work outside a comfort level or just try something new. I just really respect that because you're not going to grow if you don't do that. You're not going to change something. So I, I, I, I, uh, and, and of course I, I've, my, my, um, learning has exponentially grown, um, being a part of FDSA. I think the F the whole base of the FDSA, FDSA instructors are amazing wealth of the church. So I do look up to the academy and the instructors, um, that we offer such a diversity of, of people and topics. It's not just performance now. It's just from, you know, your mind to cooperative care to competition. Um, so, and I, but there is one name I will mention if I have to mention one name, if I have time, is I will never forget, um, one person I worked with, with, with a rival, my very first high drive performance dog, her name was Patty Hatfield. She's from Florida and she had a wonderful Malinois named Lily who was on the, um, U S agility world team back in the nineties. And she would come to our air frequently for agility seminars. And she helped me so much with, with, with how I interacted with my dog. I am pretty high drive person myself. Um, high energy, actually high energy. And so was my dog. So she taught me how to, you know, adjust my energy level when she needed to be calmer. Uh, and she also just loved her dog. She had a great bond with her dog, Lily. She just loved her. She would talk about, I, you know, when she went, went home from a, from a seminar, I'm no, I'm going to do all the wrong things. And I'm going to go hug my dog and, and, and just get all crazy when I see her.

But you, cause you're not supposed to do that. Cause back in that day, you weren't supposed to, you're supposed to ignore your dog. When you got home, you were supposed to not let them run up the stairs ahead of you. You were not supposed to let your dogs in the furniture or you were supposed to eat before they ate all these little, you know, control things that, that were told to you. And I always remember because I kind of did that stuff too, but I thought I'm not going to tell anybody that I let my dog up on my bed and then let my dog run up the stairs because, but I always thought I was doing something wrong. Cause that was what you were told back then. And I, I just remember her just saying, I don't care if I'm doing it. I'm doing the wrong thing. I love my dog. And I just, I just gotta be excited when I see her, when I come home. So I always kind of still, just still think of, of those interactions I had with her, the advice she gave me. So, and she had a Malinois and, uh, uh, again, I just, just love that. I love the Belgian breeds and, um, I could relate to that as well. So thanks so much for coming on the podcast, Julie. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back in two weeks with Amy cook to talk about using play to help dogs cope with fear and reactivity. If you haven't already subscribe to our podcast and iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fensie dog sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fensie for supporting this podcast music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called buddy audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK transcription services. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.

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