E266: 스테이시 바넷(Stacy Barnett) - 노즈워크 발전시키기

So we do a lot of work on getting the dogs ready for searching everywhere other than just your living room. So that's kind of that class. And then I have NW230, which is actually my longest running class. That was one of the first classes I taught for FDSA, although it's gone through a lot of revisions. A lot, a lot, a lot of revisions. And that is NW2 and NW3 polishing skills, which is really a skills-based class for the levels, which is NW2, NW3, but it's also AKC. You know, that kind of level, like an excellent master type of AKC, it definitely applies to. And it's a skills-based class. We just really work on the more advanced skills that you need at the higher levels, including blank areas and unknown number of hides, which is definitely where I think things get really fun. Then the third class is NW475, which is setups to improve problem solving. And that is just really about setting different searches for your dogs to help them to learn how to work that odor and learn how to work that odor in different types of situations that require them to search not only with their noses, but also with their brains. So that is this term. Three classes, man. Full schedule. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So in intro to nosework search elements, I know there's a big focus on generalizing searching skills. You kind of mentioned that a little bit in your teaser there. So in what ways is generalizing nosework skills similar or different maybe than kind of other behaviors that people might train? Yeah. You know, part of it is, is that the dog has to really be able to understand when to search regardless of where they are. And honestly, eventually, regardless of whether or not there's odor in the area. So the dog has to understand when you set them up and you ask them to search that they that they're searching the area. So we need to then build up to the point where they can do that. And in the very beginning stages, we have to do a lot of generalization, which basically means can the dog be really can they understand how to go out and search in a variety of environments? You know, maybe it's the park. Maybe it's, you know, the the the trailers at the Home Depot or whatever it is. Right. Wherever you are, you want your dog ready to go and to search. And to do that, we have to get them used to their routine. We have to get them used to the startup line, you know, the setup. Their start lines have to be, you know, they have to really understand what they're doing there. And it's so it's giving them the skills, but then also being able to apply that really just anywhere, anywhere you're searching.

So the sport like nosework where novelty is kind of a huge component, right? The core part of the sport. Are there things you can do to really help dogs generalize more efficiently or more effectively? Yeah, yeah. A lot of that has to do with routine. Routine is kind of your best friend. And the routine really should be when you get the dog out of the van, right? It's everything becomes a routine. And I literally have a specific routine of how to get them out of the van, how to get them dressed. We have a certain amount of time that they're allowed to potty. Like, you know, you get out, you potty, we go search. So they start to understand what that sequence of events looks like. So that when they get to the point where I set them up on a start line and I release them, they know exactly what they're doing at that point. So, you know, you could search anywhere and everywhere. And let me tell you, I have searched everywhere. I mean, you know, sometimes that's the cool part about the sport, right? You can search. It's really cool places. I did a summit trial last, actually it was Halloween weekend last year. And we searched the inside of a 727. Like, how cool is that, right? We searched the inside of an airplane, of a jetliner. You know, and that same weekend we were searching. We searched train wreckage. I mean, there's like some really cool places. You know, stadiums, all kinds of stuff. So these are places where you wouldn't necessarily, first of all, your dog's probably never been to, right? So they have to be able to get to the line in a place that looks completely foreign to anything maybe that they've ever even seen. And they know what to do and to do it within a tight timeframe. So if we can give them that routine and we can help them to understand what are those steps that they need to do or what are those steps that we do that informs them of what they're going to do, right? Up until the point that they get to that start line, they'll get there with confidence, right? Because they've had, you know, if you do that same routine all the time and, you know, and you really help to build those expectations, they learn to develop that confidence when they come to the start line. So, but I would say that that's probably the biggest thing is routine. So moving from that class to the polishing skills for nose work to NW2 and NW3. I mentioned it's the third class or the fourth class in the nose work curriculum? Fourth class? 230 is kind of, it's one that I teach on top. So there's like 101, 120, 130. Those are the three core classes.

And after you do 130, 130 kind of basically introduces some of those skills, like introduces multiple, you know, some elevation introduces, you know, some inaccessible stuff. 230 kind of takes some of those ideas and then it just kind of builds on the skills and starts to make them a little bit more trial ready. What skills then do dogs need kind of coming into that class before joining? Well, I think they would do very well if they have already started multiple hides and they're pretty comfortable doing multiple hides. And if they also have a little bit of experience with inaccessible hides, I'm able to accommodate some of that because I know, you know, like if they haven't taken, you know, some classes where they haven't really built some of those skills, we can work with that. So, but what I do like to do is to build on the handler's ability to really read what the dog is telling them. So if the dog has been introduced to the skill first, we can build on that. It's a little bit better. But I mean, we can work on it, but they should definitely be on multiple odors. They should definitely be working multiple hides. And having started inaccessible hides is really a bonus at that point. So at this level, you're kind of pulling in all of those advanced skills, right? Converging odor, elevation, distraction proofing. I think I saw working with luggage in the description, teaching stamina, kind of all those things. So when you're training, are you usually like beginning to introduce those concepts? Like is baby ideas earlier in the training? You know, how do you begin to kind of layer in those pieces? Because obviously you don't just throw them at the dog's all at once, right? Yeah, yeah. And if we take a look at those skills and we kind of drill those down to kind of the basic part of the skills, it's all about general foundations. So things where, for instance, if your dog really understands how to drive into source, meaning they can, you know, they'll keep pushing into an area and keep working toward the hide, you know, with a little bit of tenacity, right? You're going to find that working things like inaccessible hides gets a lot easier. So there are some components there. So if you have the confidence and the motivation to keep working and the desire to drive to source, that's kind of, I start that super, super early. So a lot of that has to do with problem solving and trying to problem solve their environment. That is a key component to that. Another key component, which I also start teaching very early, is with multiple hides, which will help you with converging odor, right?

Where converging odor, you have multiple hides that where the scent cones overlap each other, is I start to work multiple hides, but they may be a little bit farther apart. But what I try to do there is I'm really big on installing a release cue into your reward event. So as you're rewarding your dog on your first hide, I release the dog with like an okay before I cue the next hide. And what that helps the dog to understand is that that hide is now finished. And if they can understand that, now they are open to being able to find another hide in close proximity. So there are different components of those advanced skills I start to teach earlier on. Things like elevation. You know, I teach the dog, first I install the belief that they can always get to the hide. And that's regardless if it's a deep hide or if it's elevated hide, because if I can install that early and I can teach the dog that it may be above their nose level or down to the ground, or I give them a variety of heights that the hide can be at, they start to believe that they can get to it. So then when we get to a point where then that hide is really out of reach, it becomes really easy from a handler perspective to be able to call it. And it becomes really easy from the dog perspective to actually be able to work the hides. So many pieces there. Yeah, it really is. You know, this actually is a really, it's a much more complicated sport than a lot of people. They start with a sport like, oh, this looks really easy. The dog just tells you where the hide is. And I'm like, yeah, you keep believing that one. You know, it really, there's so much to it, honestly. It's, it's, and the cool part about it, right? The cool part about the sport is that you can really, you don't have to be overwhelmed by this like mountain of knowledge that you really want to try to develop over time. It's, there's, you can really get into the sport without, you know, the, the barrier to entry is low, right? You can get into the sport without really committing, you don't have to train for six years before you trial, you know, you can get out there, you can, you can start to learn it. But the cool part about it is that there's always somewhere to go, right? No matter what, there's always something more challenging. There's always something to build upon it and it just becomes like this layer cake of, of skills and capabilities to get to the point where you're searching, you know, the back of a, or the insides of a 727, right? In three minutes or whatever, whatever crazy amount of time that they gave us, you know?

So, you know, you build up to that and, and it's really kind of cool about the sport is that you always have some place to go with that. Um, and, uh, yeah, so anyway, that was, that was a little bit of my, uh, I start getting, getting on a high on that one. I just, I just, I just can't stop on that one. It's just super exciting. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot to it. There's a lot to the sport. Nothing wrong with that. Being excited about what we're talking about. So speaking of, right, the third class is this term, um, that you mentioned challenges to enhance problem solving. Um, it kind of seems like it's equally about training the dog and teaching the handler how to set appropriate problems for their dog. Is that right? Yes, yes. Yeah. And because here, here's the crazy thing about this sport is that you're not actually training your dog. The hides are. Okay. So, you know, you're indirectly training your dog, right? You indirectly train your dog by placing the hides, but the dog has to, in order to become better over time, they have to basically learn the scent theory, right? They have to come in and they have to start to understand how do they start to problem solve the, the, the odor and that, and how does that odor going to behave? And, you know, we want them to, to be able to do this in a very, um, efficient manner and, and, and quickly and, you know, and they have to understand how to problem solve an area. And sometimes these areas get, they get huge, they get huge or really complicated from a sending perspective. You know, sometimes they're really tiny. Sometimes they're huge. There's a whole lot of variety. So if we can give them the, um, problem solving skills by giving them setups that help to kind of layer on that capability, it helps to teach the dog, but it also helps us to understand how we're going to set our hides. Because, um, you're, you're not going to build that up by just, you know, going out and just kind of setting random hides, right? If you just kind of like, Oh, that looks cool. I'll set the one there. Oh, that looks cool. That's just, just not going to, uh, give the dog the capability that they need because they, um, you know, this class will help you to kind of think about what do you need to do to be able to set those hides that are, that's going to grow your dog's capability. So I was going to say, you know, why is that such an important piece? You've already touched on that a little, like basically like your ability, your dog's ability to learn how to problem.

Problem solve is directly influenced by your own ability to set hides and set hides well and set hides appropriately. And yeah. Yes. Yes. And that's actually where it gets really interesting because dogs actually, you know, just like people, like they, they have different ways of thinking. Right. And if you look at different dogs, you're going to see that some dogs think in a way differently than other dogs do. Right. Um, I'll kind of give you an example. I have, uh, I have two half sisters. Okay. I have Brava and I have powder and they're both, um, at the upper levels of nose work. Right. They're both experienced. Now, if you look at Brava, Brava is a snap decision maker. Right. So she comes in, she gets lots of information goes, okay, here's the answer. You know, and then powder is a very linear, kind of a black and white thinker. So when, when I was trying to teach her agility, you know, when we were starting, uh, she really thought that the tunnel had a true entrance and a true exit. Right. So she, she's not one of these two, she doesn't extrapolate. Right. So she was really funny. She's just, she's real cute. But, um, so she, she's a very linear thinker and where Brava is just kind of a snap decision maker. So how you set your highs and how you build on some of those problem solving skills, you really have to kind of understand your own dog. Um, you know, this class, it helps to give you different options. And through the analysis in the, um, in the forums, what we do is we start to kind of lay out, well, this is what the, you know, this is how it's going to be teaching your dog. And this is, this is, um, you know, this is what your dog's doing and this is why. So that you start to understand, you know, how, how your dog is, is processing the information so that you can then adapt, you know, to that a little bit later on. And it's, it's really kind of cool to see them just like, you just kind of see that the gears are moving in their head. Right. And they do sometimes move a little differently. Um, you know, in a lot of my, uh, uh, example videos, uh, that, that I'm posting in the lectures, I try to use different dogs doing the same search, because when you start to do that, you start to see how differently the dogs might work or how they might perceive the information or even based upon their, their preferences. So the first week we did a lot of work driving into pressure. So if you have a lot of, um, objects in the search area that provide some environmental pressure, I want to give the dog a huge amount of reinforcement for working through that.

And you're going to find that some dogs like, uh, my youngest prize is pressure sensitive. So how she works that is very differently than powder who has absolutely no concerns about pressure whatsoever. So where prize kind of dances around and kind of comes around the back end of it. And she, she takes a little bit longer to drive into the, into the area. Powder just goes, here it is, you know, so it's just kind of interesting, but we're in other situations where prize is going to be a little bit, you know, stronger, um, because of the way she works. It's, it's, it's, it's so cool as you just start to see what the strengths are of the dogs and, you know, how you can start to set up hides to really build upon the areas that, you know, that can really help them. Right. Um, and at the same time, you just kind of build your repertoire of really understanding your own dog and understanding what you're seeing when you see another dog work. Um, which is, I think that's a cool part. You start to just see all the different flavors of it. Right. It's just, it's so much fun. So much fun. It's a blast. You mentioned pressure. What, what are some of the other factors that maybe need to be considered when you're setting up a nose work problem to kind of tailor it to the dog? What, what kind of things are we really looking at here? Yeah. So when we talk about problem solving, we also have to think about the motivation and the general resilience of the dog. So, you know, thinking about like, for instance, pressure. So let's say we take a pressure sensitive dog and we were working a cluttered area, which I use, I use clutter for, um, to teach, uh, to reinforce a dog driving and getting to source. And, uh, and that says, yeah, you were amazing. You were a big cheese, right? You, you, you, you did it. You got all the way there. But if I use a ton of clutter and I have a pressure sensitive dog, what I'm, I'm not going to be effective in that. Right. So this, um, what we need to do is kind of give them a little bit of, uh, uh, you know, we need to, to back off on that a little bit. Right. As an example. Um, and so part of what, uh, you know, what, what we go through in the class is try to say, okay, well, for your dog, uh, we will probably want to make these kinds of modifications. Right. So that you can start to, uh, build that up over time. And, uh, and so the dog can build that, that history of, of, of success. Did I answer that question? It's one of those things where, you know, I hear a question, I come up with an answer and I go off and on a tangent.

I'm not really sure this is the way my own brain works. Talk about brains. Right. Yeah. I'm like squirrel, you know, so if I don't answer a question, you got to let me know. I'll just come back to it. You know? I think so. Cause I was asking like what factors you should consider when setting up a nose or problems. You said like motivation and resilience. Yes. Right. So, so the resilience really comes down to, you know, if how comfortable the dog is, you know, doing what they're doing. Right. And you can build that up over time, but you don't want to give them something so challenging that they're not resilient enough to be successful. So you always have to kind of balance that, you know, you want to balance that challenge level with the dog's, um, motivation and the dog's skill level. Right. So it's all a balance. And that's actually what nose work training is. It's just, it's all a balance. You're balancing all of these pieces. So you get this well-rounded dog. Um, so you really want to be able to do that. You want to kind of think about, you know, the, the, the, the setup and whether or not your dog is going to be successful. Now we don't want to give them a layup either. Right. If you give them a layup and it's so easy, they're going to be like, well, that was kind of, okay, I could do that. Right. But they're not over it. Right. Yeah. But if we give them something really challenging, that's on the upper edge of what they can do. And then reward them like crazy. They're like, well, look what I just did, you know, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely cool. So, so that's kind of the classes piece. But as I teased in the intro, um, FDSA has something new coming. So we're going to be hosting a fun new event specifically for nose work fans on May 14th. Know the nose, our first single day online conference. Um, can you just share a little bit of information about what's going on? Yes, this is so cool. This is so cool. I'm so excited about this. Um, and I'm really excited to be involved in this. This is an all day conference and we have, so it's obviously it's virtual, right? So you can do this from your living room. You can wear your little pajamas, your little fuzzy slippers. It's on a weekend, right? Which is great for everybody. Um, and there's, uh, there's a bunch of instructors and we're going to have, um, two tracks. So you'll have, uh, you know, different, different presentations going, uh, throughout the day. And then there's going to be two panel discussions where the first panel discussion is going to be focused on the foundation skills for, um, you know, for competition.

And then the second panel discussion is going to be focused on the advanced nose work, um, focus, an advanced nose work focus for competition, um, uh, on the, from the skills perspective. And it's really cool. We've got, um, the nose work instructors for FDSA, but we also are bringing in a few people from the outside, um, uh, other very accomplished instructors. And, uh, and it's, it's gonna be a really, really cool way of just, you know, sharing some, uh, you know, this great sport that we're doing and, uh, and having a lot of, uh, huge educational opportunity. And I'm, I'm really looking forward to this. Do you want to tease your talk at all? Well, yeah. So yeah, yeah. I'm really excited. I chose the topic decoding the blind hide. And it's, what is your dog trying to tell you? So this is not about reading your dog necessarily in a blind hide. This is learning. What is your dog telling you about the hide? Which is different than saying whether or not they're at the hide, right? This is saying, well, you know, based on the dog's behavior, you know, the, the dog just gave you this kind of like. You know, behavior on this vertical surface. What does that tell you about the hide over there? So it's really getting into, or, uh, you know, if your dog is spinning around in circles, what is that telling you? So there's a lot, just as, as examples, right? There, there's a, there's a lot here. Um, but, you know, basically watching your dog's behavior to see what are the qualities of that hide so that, and you are more informed when you actually call alert or when you call finish. So that, you know, you really understand kind of what that search is really looking like. So I'm really excited about it. Fun. Who should consider joining us for the conference? Everybody. Seriously. So seriously, seriously, Eddie. Um, if you are, um, if, if you're in nose work, if you're, if you're, if you're, um, training to potentially compete, or if you are competing, and I would say it really at any level. Uh, we have, uh, we have presentations that are really geared toward people more working on the foundational side of it. We also have presentations that are geared toward, you know, some of the more advanced side of it. And we also have a mental management presentation with Tia Andrews, Anders, which, uh, that I'm really excited to, um, to listen to. Um, and it's, it's, it's, it's really going to be a blast. So really, honestly, if you are, um, are a competitor or if you're a, an aspiring competitor, be a great, great thing to do.

So everybody from those who are nose work curious to those who are nose work champions. Exactly. Exactly. So, so, so to, to give you an idea of the people that we're going to have. So it's going to be myself. We have Julie Simons. We have Melissa Chandler. We have Lucy Newton. We have Holly Bouchard. We have Sandra Tong and we have Tia Anders. So those are the presenters. Yeah. Pretty cool stuff. Yeah. Excellent. Yep. Yep. Um, and in case that wasn't enough, you've also recently launched a whole new thing, a new nose work initiative. Um, I did. You want to tell us about it? I did because you know what? I, I, I don't like having free time apparently. I can sympathize with that apparently. Yeah. You know, it's like, Oh, I might have an extra 15 minutes in my day. I better do something new. Right. Right. Um, actually it's so cool. It's so cool. I, I, I, with two of my good friends, we have launched our very own podcast. It's called the canine detection collaborative. And, um, and it's, it's basically, it's, it's really cool because I, I'm bringing the, the perspective of the sport side. Right. Um, we have, uh, my friend, Robin Grubel is bringing the pro side perspective and, uh, and she's from canine census and she's also a FEMA handler and she's, um, uh, she also trains, uh, bomb and narcotics dogs. Uh, and then we have crystal wing who is a, uh, mondial ring, um, decoy and, uh, and has done all the bite sports type of stuff. And she's also a human remains detection handler. So the three of us are talking all about detection and we're really talking about the, um, kind of the crossroads between, uh, professional and sports. And we're trying to bring a little bit also of the kind of the female voice to detection, which is, which is also really important to all three of us. So we're doing a lot of, um, a lot of interviews and a lot of reflections and just really a whole lot of, you know, showing each other just respect and, and talking about some really cool things with respect to detection. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun, uh, and we're on all the major platforms. So you check us out. Very cool. I'm sure folks are going to be searching for that instead of listening to the answer to the next question, but I do have one more question for you, which is kind of round out our chat. Um, if we were to drill down all the stuff we've been talking about today into one little takeaway or one piece of information you want people to really, you know, understand after listening to this, what would that be? Oh, that is so hard. That is so hard. I know.

I know what, well, I guess what I would say is kind of a common thread of some of the stuff that we've been talking about today is all around, um, the, the, the need. Or the, the importance of searching in a lot of different areas, um, and the aspect of generalization, right? And to always be thinking about searching new places, giving your dog a variety of experiences, because all of these classes are, that's all what it's about, right? It's a variety of experiences so that the dog is better, um, uh, you know, uh, better, um, you know, prepared, right? Better, better prepared to, uh, to come to the line. When you, when you set up on that start line, you release your dog to search. And if you really, you search a lot of different places, you give your dog a lot of different types of hides, a lot of variety, your dog will be a lot more successful. Awesome. What a good note to kind of end on. Thank you so much, Stacey. This has been fantastic. This has been a blast. Thank you so much. All right. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We will be back next week. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fendi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fendi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by BenSounds.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Line. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Today's show iso. Today's show iso. Thank you.