E235: 크리스틴 로젠바흐(Kristin Rosenbach) - "반려견과 함께하는 송로버섯 사냥"

6:32

Some people really just do it as a recreational activity. There are also some people that will guide tours to take people out. You have a whole bunch of different options. And so it's a lot of fun. It could be just for fun. It could be just for your kitchen. Or you could decide to make a few dollars doing it. You mentioned they're delicious. I've never tasted them. What do they taste like? Do they taste like mushrooms? Are they different than mushrooms? Go ahead. They're very different than mushrooms. The flavor really depends on the species. Each species has a completely different aroma profile, which is what you're actually tasting. You're not actually tasting the truffle. It's more about the aroma. But here in the Pacific Northwest specifically, we are primarily hunting Oregon white truffles and Oregon black truffles. And our Oregon white truffles are more of a garlicky, punchy flavor or aroma, however you want to call that or refer to that. But they're very strong. And they lend a really strong flavor to dishes. When you go to the Oregon black truffles, those ones tend to be a bit more chocolate, fruity, pineapple, blueberry flavor. So they lend themselves really well to some of the sweeter things. And then if you go over to the European species, those ones are actually very different. When you're talking about the Italian white, which I would consider the cream of the crop when it comes to truffles. It's similar in that flavor profile to our Oregon white, but honestly, way better. Just way better. But then their black truffles tend to be more musky and earthy. So they all have these very different flavor profiles. The typical dishes that most people start out with are your risotto and pastas and cheesy dishes, things like that. But we will during the season, obviously we eat a lot of truffles. But during the season, we will have truffle mac and cheese or my husband makes a venison black truffle burger. Or we have a lot of risotto, but we'll also make truffle pizza. Various, so many different things. A lot of people really like them with eggs. So there's a lot of opportunity to incorporate them in your food. I don't know, Kristen. I'm going to invite myself over for a venison burger. Sounds fantastic. I'm going to skip around to my questions a little bit here because you mentioned something in there and it kind of spurred a thought. So if there are different varieties and we're teaching our dogs to scent them, you know, in traditional types of scent work, you have to teach each scent individually. Do you actually have to teach them to find each type of truffle as its own thing?

9:44

That is a big question. And it's actually a pretty big section of the webinar where we go into this. But when we're talking about how the dogs are finding the truffles, you're talking about volatile organic compounds. And essentially there are at least 200 volatile organic compounds that have been identified for truffles in general. Each species has 30 to 60 just for its own. And then within those 30 to 60, there is variety in the concentration and the combinations. So what we end up doing is we end up having several, the dog learns that several combinations and concentrations are acceptable. And so that's why we train with ripe truffles, whole truffles. And that's why we train with multiple over the course of their training, because we want to expose them to all or as many of the acceptable combinations and concentrations of those VOCs. And then because there's overlap between all of them, it's actually really easy to then go introduce another species. That happens really quickly because there is a little bit of overlap with similar VOCs. Super interesting. In terms of how you actually train it, how is it similar or different maybe than other types of nose work or scent sports that folks might be familiar with? There is some similarity, but I'll be honest with you, there is probably more difference. And the reason I used to skirt around this topic because I didn't want to offend anybody. But the reality is, is I've seen it over and over and over and over again. The differences are enough to wear, to avoid frustration. I usually advise people, don't take your current scent sport that you do and just throw truffle odor into that program. Because some of the big differences are obviously environment. We're out in the wild. We're in a variety of different forests. We're encountering wildlife. You know, obviously scat and various other things that are out in the forest. So that's the big, big difference. When we start looking at the training process, when we are working toward truffle hunting, and this is my process. This is not necessarily everybody's. But I don't use containers at all because containers have odor. And you're never going to find a container in the forest. We don't use oils because carrier oils have odor. And the dogs are never going to find a cotton swab out in the forest. So there's those subtle things that make a difference. And so we don't use any form of containers, oils, cotton swabs, anything. We're working with the real raw whole truffle. Then the other really big difference is that we actually need our dogs to access and physically interact with the truffle.

13:10

And that's usually not something that happens in dog sports. So we actually want the dog to dig and really assess that hole and work through the direction of where to dig. And then literally nose target the truffle. Because to me, the truffle is just going to look like a big clump of dirt. And so unless the dog nose targets it, I don't have a chance really of finding it. So that's another difference is that we really need the dog to physically interact with the target. So there is that. And then it's very interactive. And it ends with you harvesting the truffle. And with all the sports, we know that you don't necessarily go take the nose work hide and go, OK, I got it. And leave with it. We leave with the odor. So those little differences, they add up and they make the entire activity quite different. And then lastly, I would say that truffle hunting isn't a group activity. So there aren't other people and there aren't other dogs around. And so that also changes the dynamic of the activity. That brings up something I hadn't thought about before, which is if you are harvesting truffles, presumably you're hoping to find more than one. So you may actively be carrying some on your person and asking the dog to ignore that scent to find new ones. Is that? Yes. That does add a whole other component, doesn't it? Yes, exactly. Your dogs over time will learn that the truffle in your pocket doesn't count. The truffle on the kitchen counter doesn't count. But yeah, you're walking through a forest that is going to have, it's actually going to have more truffles than you end up harvesting. So there's going to be the ones that you harvest. There's going to be the ones that you have to pass by because it's time to be done. There's going to be the ones in your backpack. There's like, there's truffle smell everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So what tools would somebody need if they want to kind of teach their dog this? Good question. Also, first and foremost, highly, I highly recommend use real truffles. And that's, that's not a tool, but it's, it kind of falls into that supplies and equipment category. I, like I said before, it's, it's a more direct path. You're going to get there faster. It's going to be more efficient. If you use real whole truffles, we want to teach the dog to, we want to practice on the thing that we actually want the dog to find. And so there's that to begin with. And honestly, and I will kind of dispel this, this little myth. People think they're going to save money by buying an oil. They're not.

16:05

Because they're going to end up spending more money in some sort of private lesson or, or something to get them over. Or, or pass the barriers they ran into because they were using an oil. So as far as equipment goes and tools, you pretty much need anything that you would be hiking with. And typically on a rainy day, because truffle hunting is almost always cold and wet. And so you start with that basic equipment that is for you and your dog. So that's going to be everything from your backpack to your rain gear, to your first aid equipment, to your navigation things. Safety equipment that is going to be specific to your area. So for example, I carry bear spray. So those are some examples of what you're going to carry just for the being out in the woods piece. Your dog is going to have very specific gear that means we're going truffle hunting. And so usually that is a harness, unlike one that they wear for other activities. Everybody usually ends up with a long line. Sorry. So everybody usually ends up with a long line. Whether or not they use it, they still end up needing to carry it. And sometimes some dogs will drag that long line. You definitely want to make sure that you have a, like a beacon that will help you see your dog in, in those darker forests, because some of the truffle forests are really, really dark. And so I'll use like a little, a little beacon light that I get from Ruffwear that's, it's a red light. A blinky light. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's see. And obviously you need lots and lots and lots of treats. But your dog is going to have that very specific gear that is going to be that context cue that tells them we're truffle hunting. And that gear is only going to come out when you're either practicing with truffles or you're actually going truffle hunting. And then the other thing is to kind of consider is how far you want to go with tracking devices and things like that. So, for example, I carry a tracking device for myself. One of my four dogs has a tracking device attached to the harness. And then I also have a couple apps that are, they're, they're helpful for me in knowing which direction I've gone and being able to backtrack my way out. Because you can get really disoriented in the forest. So you can kind of think about things like that. But essentially we're looking at your hiking gear for you and your dog, safety equipment, navigation tools, and then making sure that your dog's gear is very specific and used only for truffle hunting. Because that becomes a massive cue. So I noticed you did not mention a shovel to help your dog dig.

19:03

I don't know if that was intentional or not. I would have expected a shovel to be on the list. I'm sorry. Yes, there's a shovel. Okay. There's a shovel and there's also a container. So yeah, because when you go through the process, you're, when you harvest, you're going to want a container with solid walls that are going to protect the truffles because they are rather fragile. So you're going to want, I use a thermos, not for the quality of the thermos, just because of the shape. And then obviously a shovel, I usually carry a towel and, you know, things like that, that are going to help us not get filthy, filthy. Although you're going, although you're going to be filthy. You are, the dog is. Yeah. Yeah. We come, we come home very dirty. You mentioned that they grow in the Pacific Northwest. Where else do truffles grow? Where are folks likely to find them, at least kind of here in North America? And then are there parts of the country or parts of kind of the US, Canada, North America, whatever, that they don't grow at all? So typically they're going to be, when we're talking about just North America, you're going to find them in the Pacific Northwest, which we kind of define as Northern California up to BC. Then, and that's going to be your Oregon white truffles and your Oregon black truffles. There's also an Oregon brown, but it's not very common. Then down in Texas, the South, the Southeast and the East Coast, you'll find something that's called a pecan truffle that surprisingly is named after being found on pecan orchards. But it does grow in a relationship with several other types of trees. And so it can be found not just with pecan orchards, but so that kind of covers mostly where you're going to find them. You're not going to find them really in the heart of the Midwest, or at least not yet. Who knows, right? Yeah, it was super interesting because I was doing a little bit of reading, kind of writing up the questions and before we hopped on the call. And just about how hard it was and how long it took before they could figure out how to actively, intentionally cultivate them and like grow them, like whatever, and how much went into that. And then you mentioned the pecan thing and you're like, well, surprisingly, they grow pecan trees. It sounds like that's a really common thing that there are certain types of truffles that tend to grow most often or be found most often around certain types of trees. Am I totally at face? Yeah, so they can form relationships with many different types of trees. And the species is a little bit, each species has like a preference.

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That said, the information that we pull out of books and off of the internet and things like that is limited to what has actually been explored. And so, for example, you'll find here in the Pacific Northwest, we're typically looking for stands of Douglas fir. And there are plenty of truffles in those stands of Douglas fir, but I'll be the first to tell you that I have found truffles in many other habitats. My husband has even found one like on the school grounds that he took the dogs for a walk. How cool is that? And I have found them in forests that really, really looked unlikely according to what we know. They looked unlikely, but we found truffles there. So I usually tell people, just keep in mind there's textbook and internet information, and then there's practical experience. And those don't necessarily match up. Always match. Yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting. But yeah, here in the Pacific Northwest, it's Douglas fir. You know, obviously the pecan is named after pecan trees, but that also grows on several other species of trees in those regions. And then when you're talking about some of the European species, you're going to be looking at more like an oak tree or something like that. Interesting. All right. So I know the webinar is next week, and it'll be next week when folks are listening to this. So can you share just a little bit more about kind of what you'll cover in it, maybe who would be interested, and maybe kind of what level it's really targeted at? So is it appropriate for the total newbie, or is it really kind of for somebody who maybe at least has a little bit of background knowledge? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It will be appropriate for anybody, whether you're a complete beginner or you're someone who has some experience in scent detection. We're going to cover what truffles are. So we're going to go into more detail about like those VOCs and things like that. We're going to go into more detail about what the truffle is. We're going to talk about why we want dogs to find them, and we'll also cover how they find them. And we will be talking about how you can get started. So I'm going to give you the basic beginning exercises to start with and show you an overview of the training process. Obviously, we won't have enough time to go through the whole thing, but you will be able to get started after the webinar, and you can kind of see if it's the direction that you want to go in. Cool. Very exciting.

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So to kind of round out the conversation, if you were to kind of drill down everything we talked about into one key piece of information you want folks to kind of walk away with, what would that be? Oh, you know, I think because of the experience that I've had and because of, you know, 10, 11 years of seeing some of the pains of my students, I think one of the most important things to take away from today is the understanding that truffle hunting is different enough from the other scent sports that you really have to take a different approach. And I think that's important to let people know in advance just because I've seen so many people with those headaches. I just, I don't want you guys to have those headaches. So I just, you know, I just want everybody to know, like, if I had to pick my top tips for everybody, I would say, always, always train with real whole truffles. Always. Do all of your training outside because truffles don't grow inside. There's no point in doing it inside. Right. Because we want to take a very direct route with no extra steps. We want to omit all the extra stuff. And then also kind of this idea of recognizing that there are no rules. There are no judges. There are no timers. And you get to make it up as you go. So even though we're going to, we'll go through a training program, there are things that are going to be very specific to you. And over time, you develop a very unique dialogue with your dog. And you end up in this communication with your dog the entire time. And at the, after you have some experience, you end up knowing, oh, my dog's eating grass. That means there are no truffles here. Or, oh, my dog found a non-culinary species of truffle. That means there's no truffles here. Or, oh, my dog is barking and going around circles around this, this blackberry bush. That means there's a truffle in the blackberry bush and he can't access it. I need to go help. So that would be probably what I would tell everybody is, you know, those top tips. And then just get started in the right direction so that you can avoid a lot of the headaches that I have seen. And I even experienced some of those because I did the same thing. I started a couple of my dogs with containers and oils and things like that. And just don't. Would not do again. Would not recommend. Would not recommend. Fair enough. You'll get there. You will get there. But it'll just take longer and more steps. Cool. Well, thank you so much for being here. It's such an interesting aspect of the dog world, right? It's not something that I think everybody's thought about. So it's neat. Thank you. You're welcome.

27:43

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Absolutely. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We will be back again next week. And we'll actually be talking pulling sports next week with Erin Linus. If you haven't already, subscribe to the podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. They'll have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided relatively free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in. And happy training. Happy training. Happy training. Thank you.