E463: 브로나 달리(Bronagh Daly) - "도그 어질리티의 큰 감정들"

5:15

you're not seeing that level of fluency that you've seen elsewhere um or potentially um you know they tend to can get like a little overstimulated almost on course i would say so maybe things start out well um but then as you know your training session continues or at a trial or whatnot um you that fluency again starts to drop um so maybe like something that's not quite perfectly clear occurs um and then your dog you know can no longer have the same brain state that you saw um they're not able to you know hold the same level of training that you're holding like they can't all of a sudden they're knocking bars um when they were knocking bars before or they're blowing their contact criteria or they're like missing every other we pull um things along those lines so it tends to be um or you know they're just not fully focused like maybe their brain is somewhere else is another one definitely um but it tends to be less like um you know if it's more of like say you're like a training thing um that would be more like maybe you know you only have trained the weep holes with you on the left and so then you go and like you're working with your dog and the right dog's like well i don't know what that means and that's more just like your dog just doesn't know what that means right that which is fine then we just know okay we need to train the dog the right or you know maybe you know we trained a tight turn verbal but we had no motion involved in it and then when you add motion from a tunnel your dog's like that is crazy hard i cannot collect you know there is no way i can collect you know that would be different from having a dog where you know you've proofed that you know they're coming flying out of a tunnel and you know that they can collect and your dog is just like smashing that bar um or your dog is going long and not turning and you're like well that's weird because i know you know i proof that for my dog my dog's able to do that skill something else is probably going on that's causing that um i think a lot of times probably for handlers it's kind of hard to hear hard to see some of that right so how do you help handlers recognize the dog's issue isn't lack of training but it's actually like they're having a difficult time processing the environment yeah um yeah that can definitely be a hard thing um to see particularly in agility there's a lot going on in agility and agility training for you know both the handler and the dog um and so there's a lot to focus on all the time um and it can be easy to miss things of like oh you know you know you say this

7:40

dog is just have it has a really difficult time with repeating or something or has a really really low tolerance um for frustration um or you know the dog is not able to like handle errors like really really cares about being correct um and has you know difficult time with errors um those can be harder to spot because you're like well i told you know my dog should be holding their contact criteria because i've trained it and they know how to train it um so it's definitely something that can be hard to catch for a lot of people um so usually i just kind of talk about it it really depends because there's so many different ways that the feelings can be affecting what's going on yeah um but you know we'll talk through it'll be like you know what is the training looked like for you know say like the weep holes for instance um so say you know what is the training looked like for this weep hole okay so you know we've trained all of these entrances you know the dog is like never had a problem with going straight through all this um now you know for instance i've like had this dog who's come to my one of my classes and cannot weave anymore he like no longer is able to weave and it's just because the environment has just made it he can't bring he like his body's moving too fast for his brain to process um so his brain is like not really in the building anymore um and so it's not necessarily that he has trouble weaving so we've discussed we'll be like well you know and it's been very frustrating it's very frustrating as a handler to come in you're like my dog is beautiful weep holes um and they might but their brain just isn't allowing that fluency to carry over into this environment um it's because you know we're too excited we just have too many feelings like a jelly is too you know too important right now you know the brain just can't move as fast as the body wants to move right now um and so you know it's talking about like yes you probably do a beautiful weep holes but the more important thing is how do we have beautiful weep holes here um and the missing piece you know is that brain and how to get the brain into that better brain space um so it's about being like okay yes we probably do have you know that skill or that level of fluency um but let's look at like what's different so what's you know what's different between like you know weaving at home or weaving in this like building where like no one's around and then weaving in this place that's like really big and there's all these equipment there's other dogs running um you know what changes

9:56

and what you know does the dog look different um you know does you know is the dog panting a lot more the dog just randomly offering stuff and jumping around whereas home they like just walk right next to you and like walk right up to training you know are they breaking their start line and just like rushing to do the task whereas at home like you know you can feed them are they not eating at all you know why are those happening probably we're not thinking as well um so it can take a lot of digging to kind of like figure out exactly what's going on but that's kind of an example of how you might do that with or how i do that i always think about like it'd just be so frustrating especially if you you know feel like your dog loves agility at home or loves agility in your training facility and then you go to a seminar you go to a trial and it's like he doesn't look happy to be here like what's wrong like absolutely and it can be heartbreaking for a lot of people because you know for dogs who just like run off and sniff at a trial or something um or who won't leave the start line um or you know like start and can do four obstacles beautifully and then they run off and are just like opting out um that can definitely be heartbreaking because at home you know people will see and have this like beautiful connection with their dogs not even just like oh my dog loves it it's this lovely connection that you have with your dog that you get to do um this really cool thing where you get to speak a whole other language basically with your dog um and you know to like lose that when you go to a trial or go to a class or something can be yeah really um hard to you know feel because you're like you know what am i doing or like you know why is this occurring when it's not really anything that anybody's doing it's just the dog's brain just isn't in that brain space it's not necessarily that they don't like it sometimes it's that they really do like it that's why it's hard because it's so important to them you know yeah yeah so what leads some dogs to struggle with big feelings while other dogs just seem to not they're just fine yeah um i would say i think there's definitely genetics at play absolutely um saying the biggest thing is that it's about learning how to regulate um within agility which is really hard for a lot of dogs um because again there's a lot going on um and we're asking our dogs to like think really hard and move quickly and do all these like very difficult um behavior chains all in a row while

12:09

also like paying attention to what we're doing and we're like randomly asking them to do things on the fly um that they have to react to so it's really hard um for a lot of dogs there's a lot going on and then you know that's just not even the environmental factors that we bring in as well um so for a lot of dogs it's just it's that regulation um and some dogs i really do believe strongly come pre-installed with having an easier time regulating than others um it just you know people too it's just like the way you know we're all built sometimes just being able to regulate a little bit more easily than others um and i think you know on top of that then it's about just some dogs have you know more tools in their toolbox on being able to regulate um and you know some of that again is pre-installed and some of it is taught um and so i think you know it's a big combination of both of those um and some dogs also i would say just have you know a higher tolerance for caring about being right um or you know frustration a lot of dogs can regulate themselves through frustration or don't really feel frustration they're just like whatever that was cool like you know like i got to do a tunnel i don't care if that was wrong whatever that was fun um you know some dogs just have a different you know tolerance for those things as well and that can be just like early experiences with training you know learning that they just win a lot and they're like oh it feels good to train because i just win a lot whatever um you know or it could again just be like they came pre-installed just being like this is cool i like this we're training together i love it i don't matter it doesn't matter um so i think it's really you know it's a mix of like personality that you already come pre-installed with and then you know early learning history you know how that learning history evolved early on or if there was one you know some dogs have a history of where they didn't really have a relationship with people um early on um and then also just you know their introduction to agility in that environment i would say definitely can have an impact you know like what experiences did they have early on around agility um did they have a dog chase them through a tunnel and they like peed running through all the through the tunnel and then that was really scary and then they have feelings about dogs around agility that impact their training um i might be saying that from experience um for one of my dogs um and then you know or you know did they you know all the dogs they've like

14:29

never even seen a dog do agility until they're like two years old and so they're just like oh well you know like i do that thing they do that thing whatever you know it's a it's always with any behavior it's a mix of everything uh but i think the big thing it comes down to for any dog is like what tools they have in their toolbox and what tools their handler has in their toolbox um to be able to cope with just regulation and just getting them into a brain state um where they're able to work through all the different varying factors that might crop up within agility training or trialing or whatever is it important to know kind of which big feelings or whether they're positive or negative feelings that a dog is having to begin to kind of work to improve that dog's emotional state yeah definitely um i would say you know it's definitely good with any behavior to know you know where the root cause is um so for sure you know if a dog is you know really triggered by dogs barking i think it's super important to know if they're afraid of those dogs that are barking while they're running agility or if they just are like that's so cool i love when dogs are so excited i want to be excited too and you know feeding off of it instead um because then you know how to approach um you're helping because maybe the dog won't leave the start line um and is that you know because of the barking has caused the dog to be like really scared and the dog you know doesn't feel safe you performing in the ring they're not in a great brain space due to safety um or can they not perform in the ring because they're frozen at the start line because they're looking at you with glassy eyes because their just brain is like gone um because they're so excited they're no longer thinking that's definitely two different ways two different you know approaches you're going to have for helping that same behavior of being frozen at the start line um you might use similar regulation techniques but then where you know you're going to take it beyond that it'll definitely be different um so for sure you know and when if a dog's sniffing like running off and sniffing um you know are they running off and sniffing um due to you know because they're like you know stressed because they didn't understand a handling technique and they're running off then we're like okay we need to you know work on our handling a little bit to like make sure our timing is a little bit earlier so our dog doesn't you know get as stressed or confused um or maybe we completely lost our dog

16:42

and we're running off that way and our dog thought they were going that way and then they're like oh god my human's gone i can't do this and then they have to like go you know do some displacement sniffing or are they displacement sniffing because the environment is just really hard and they just can't do it in that environment um so yeah definitely i think it's huge to know like the root of what's causing it for sure so you're talking in there a little bit about how um kind of excitement and you're sometimes the good emotions they just get too big um how do you distinguish between you know healthy excitement and arousal kind of the positive feelings we want to see for agility or for really any sport right yeah and when it kind of becomes too much and is starting to actually interfere with their performance yeah so i would say again it all comes back to how they're performing their tasks and how they regularly perform those tasks and now how they're performing them at this excitement level um so basically being able to see like you know i'll tell some students sometimes um if your dog barks through agility but holds all of their criteria and hear your cues follows through everything you know very fluently um and maintains their criteria everything like that they can bark in agility because then they can think um if your dog is barking agility and their contact starts to slip or we're knocking bars or breaking our start line um or you know at the end of a run we're doing a big loop instead of you know coming in you know targeting our leash or something you know our skills are starting to fall then we can't bark during agility because then we know that that barking is actually a sign of being you know over stimulated over aroused um they're not actually being able to think clearly um so it's basically about you know seeing that excitement level and then being able to see like okay you know is all of the criteria that you know are we know that we've trained our dog to be able to understand um in these various environments is that holding um you know or is our dog responding to cues clearly you know going into the ring are they able to you know focus on me going into the ring um are they able to you know have that same fluency when we enter the ring and the reinforcers go away because that's a whole other thing too like are we just you know we're like staring at the cheese and then the cheese is gone and then we're like no brain um brain went with the cheese so you know can that happen when we're you know translating from

19:06

reinforcers to no reinforcers um things like that so as long as the dog is you know having positive emotions um and the fluency stays at a good level that means we're in a good thinking brain um but you know if we're seeing anything slip like maybe even a dog is like barking um at the start line then they stop barking once you release them that doesn't always also necessarily mean um one way or the other that our brain is in a good place um it could potentially mean okay we've stopped barking but we're still in that big emotional state um and you know there's one wrong handling move and all of a sudden the dog is like barking bark barking spinning spinning spinning or like doing something else and you're like aha okay we know that tolerance for frustration is not there which means that brain is not in a great space um or you know maybe there's like a slightly late handling cue and the dog is just kind of like okay i'm gonna keep going and just kind of keeps going on the line you've cued them or like if they're a very nice dog who like you know covers your butt um they might like look to you and be like yeah sure and then or like even correct the you know the line for you whatever okay we're we're in a good emotional state you know we can keep going so that's kind of my long-winded dancer upsetting that basically fluency remains then you're then you're good so for those dogs who are not good um you know what's the best approach to kind of helping them get to good right do we teach them how to think through the big feelings do we work to reduce the feelings they're not that big like from a big picture perspective here what are we trying to do to make this better yeah i would say it's always a combination of both things um so for some dogs you cannot completely remove them from having those feelings um that maybe the second they see equipment or like a piece of equipment those feelings start to come into play um or you have a toy in your hand and those feelings come into play or like the specific agility leash that you put on them like the feelings come into play or you know they're near a training space whatever um you can't always necessarily remove those feelings fully out of a dog um particularly when it comes to agility because a lot of dogs just um you know find agility super fun super important and just you know all those feelings so i would say it's a mix of both so it's definitely teaching a dog um how to think through those feelings and learn how to regulate when those feelings come up um because if they're tending

21:32

towards having a lot of feelings around agility whether it's like you know they're you know going up or down with their feelings or somewhere in between um it's super important for them to learn how to regulate because if they're already tending towards that that's not going to just magically go away um but we can teach them how to regulate through those feelings when something comes up so regulating through frustration um so that can be a big one for dogs or you know how to feel better about feeling like something hasn't gone perfectly um so you know failing well essentially um and teaching them you know how to regulate around the environment um all those kinds of things and learn how to like get close to those feeling building and then learn how to like you know work through bringing them back down and keep that optimal brain state through those feelings um and then i think it's also then important to learn you know how to also do certain aspects of agility or you know set up training so that those feelings don't pop up at all as well so i think it's a combination of like learning how to put agility into a structure that feels very clear and feels really good and really predictable for the brain as much as possible um and then you know teaching agility to look like that so that feels better for those feelings building up but at the same time being like we're going to be realistic there's things that are going to cause feelings in the environment let's you know teach the dog how to regulate and feel as good as possible and then kind of bring those things together to get kind of like the best brain state you can for agility so what does that look like to actually work on that in practice like how do you actually begin teaching dogs those pieces yeah um something i really like to do is teaching um a reset so not necessarily like opting out fully um but something i really like to do is teaching like a reset station so within agility training so i think that's where a lot of things start um is teaching um is teaching where there's a way for if dogs learn that if they start to be having too many feelings um or even if there's like a mistake in training you know like oops you know there's a missed weep hole entry whatever it is um there's a way to really easily reset that feels good to the dog and settles them and regulates them instead of building up potentially any other feelings going on um so i like to what i call like reset stations so that's something i really like to teach for a dog it can find it feels really good for dogs when dogs learn reset stations enough you'll

24:06

see them start to be like that felt weird and like go to their reset station be like i need a break um and also something i find can feel really good for handlers too um because say there's like an oopsies in training they can cue their reset station and then both dog and the handler get a moment to regulate and think um and you know both kind of take a breath and then re-approach training together um both in a better mindset instead of having to feel like you have to like regulate you know figure out what you're doing on the fly or you have to like end the training session and come back to it later um so that's a big one i like to teach a lot of teams um and then i like to do a lot of like arousal layering games um so just teaching like pretty easy patterns um and then layering agility into those and feelings into those and also working on being you know calm and still by calm i just mainly mean like still and thinking um and then getting excited um and then working how to regulate between those two factors um so that you know we're able to you know bring the feelings up and then we're going to bring the feelings down and just like think in a really easy way um those those kinds of games i think are super important um and then also just creating a very clear training structure of like the training has started so a dog is very aware when the training is starting um and then when the training session is done so having a really clear structure for that as well of like what it looks like when the training has started and then what it looks like when the training is over and the dog also is allowed to opt out and say the training's over before you might want the training to be over as well um so then you know giving them ability i like to give them ability to be like i need a break versus like i am done with this like i cannot do this right now um so i think you know obviously that concept in itself dogs aren't going to think that through that but they can start to figure out patterns of like when we go here and we like work this pattern a little bit then we go back into the thing when i go to you know this mat over here that means we don't do it anymore and they can start to figure out those patterns themselves and you know allowing them to have access that to that all the time and then also have the clarity between the two um can also be really helpful and that's something that you can then once they learn that structure you can bring that to a trial of like this is what it looks like the same way when we're starting the game this is what it looks like when the game is done

26:30

um so you know making a clear structure in training that you can then bring to trialing or to different environments can also be super duper helpful um lots of different things i think that's like a baseline of basically how i would start doing it uh there's a lot of different ways that you can you know lots of different factors that i'll bring into that as well um but i would say that's kind of like the main thing and then just you know creating that predictable structure like making agility feel as clear and predictable as possible um by playing making training be in as clear and predictable structures or loops as possible so that you know it's easy for dogs to feel good about the session um even if something like goes wrong because in agility like it's hard to make everything perfect and errorless because it's just really hard pretty impossible uh but if we just you know put in a loop where they understand you know what's going to happen next as much as possible that can help what are you know kind of those early signs or somebody who's maybe working on this who knows that their dog can have big feelings that their dog is starting to go that direction right that maybe it's time for that reset or that pause um you know kind of and does that look different maybe in training versus competition you know what are we looking at when we're looking at the dog that says maybe we need to stop for a second yeah i think there's a lot of different things um so going back to just like fluency um so latency basically is a big one um so for instance my boy wild he has a lot of feelings about agility he he has a lot of tools in his toolbox and he's pretty good at regulating them but i also want to help him be successful um and so i want to make sure he doesn't you know practice running agility within that less than optimal brain state where he's just not really thinking as well um and so like for him for instance i'll see he you know i'll go to reward him at the end of something and he he'll grab the toy and then he'll let it go um and he'll want me just to throw him the toy but he can't tug anymore so his fluency for tugging dropped so i was like oh he still knows he was correct and he's able to receive his reinforcer but he can't grab it and tug it like he would otherwise um or you know for instance like i use a lot of dots in training and i cue him to go to the dot and he goes to the dot and i reward him and then he like takes the cookie and runs off instead of like staying at the dot um little things like that um or you know maybe he

29:02

bypasses the dot and then or i throw a cookie a big one for him for instance i throw a reset cookie and he like goes to eat and then he looks at me he's like i can't eat that i'm like okay so if some things you know something's going on in that little brain right there that we need to take a little break for um so i'd say you know in a little things like that where it's not necessarily even the task that we're having latency on um it's just like collecting reinforcers so that can be a big one it's just like they can't engage with you the same way that they were engaging with um because i know for him for instance if i went and asked him to do another running dog walk he would do it but he probably wouldn't be able to you know target the dot at the end again um and that's you know at some point fluency's probably gonna drop like he's gonna lose the ability to you know be doing as well and even if he was like doing fine and just like running the dog walk he's probably really not taking it in as much as he would be otherwise um because that brain is not in as good a brain state so we're not even necessarily like it's not having the training impact that we want on them because they're not gonna retain that really when as much when they get into that kind of big feelings brain state um so i'd say it can be little things like that um you know just like little latency of cues um you know you ask them to sit and they take 10 seconds to sit instead of usually you know going to sit right away um or you know you're lining them up and they don't come to line up with you right away um or there can be even like you know little hesitations um on things that you know so you know they go to like stop at their contact um and they like pause right before they go into their you know contact edition um or you know they knock a bar and you're like that's really weird like i've never you know they don't usually knock a bar on like collected turns or whatever like little things like that um but i would say really it's your you have latency of of cues or your fluency starts to drop little bits and the earlier you can catch it the better um so you know the more that you can be like oh well that seems weird my dog is like you know doesn't act this way normally um or didn't act this way two repetitions ago let me take a break we're gonna go reset and let me like think about why that might be causing it and that's always more productive than being like well let's try one more let's see what happens it's fine um because then you know we're building in more of that brain state so basically

31:32

just anytime you see your dog lose um fluency in something that they usually can do even when it's very small um like not interacting with your toy the same way or whatever it is you know maybe you throw it and they go and they get it and they lie down you're like okay um you know they're not bringing back to me they're probably something you know is going on um it doesn't necessarily have to mean that like the tasks that they're performing has fluency drop but it can be like anything related to it um i think is super important to keep in mind interesting um so we've talked a whole bunch of kind of about the dog side of the thing right but what role does the handler kind of play in all of this you know in handler's movement their awareness either in you know maybe accidentally making things worse or in terms of actually helping the dog deal with things when you're on course or in training yeah definitely um so the handler can for sure have a big impact i would say in a few different ways one of them is just like your standard handling um so and just like being connected to your dog right so just if you're on course and you know you're distracted by the environment because you know you're also allowed to be distracted by the environment um you say you know like you hear the dog bark or like you're like oh there's a judge there and you get distracted for a second you look off and then your dog you know goes you know goes behind you because they thought you were doing a blind cross because you looked forward or whatever um or maybe like your you know your front cross is a little late or your verbal's a late or whatever it might be um that can definitely cause a lot of feelings for dogs um just because their expectations of what they thought were incorrect so say they thought you were doing a blind cross and then turns out you weren't doing a blind cross and you're like dog come here um or like you know calling tunnel tunnel or like whatever it might be um all of a sudden their expectations are different than what they thought that what was happening so that can be difficult for them um or if you have to like call them off like feel like you need to call them off of something or if you have to like reset them in the middle of them thinking they're doing something um so say you know they're running and they're going towards the weep holes then you have to call them back and reset them because you were actually you know sending them to the tunnel next to the weep holes whatever it is um or you wanted to like set them from a different entrance whatever like that changing expectations

33:46

can really hard um or feeling like they're wrong can really hard anything like that um so definitely handling itself um also yeah just handling itself can also be distracting like moving running as a handler can be really stimulating for a lot of dogs um all of that stuff um and then from also just a standpoint of like our emotions can also accidentally affect our dogs in ways we don't realize um we can think we're really good actors our dogs are usually much better reading us than we are at acting like we're cool um so you know even you know say you're really disappointed about a run or like a training session isn't going really well um and our dog can feel that frustration coming off of us that can really affect them um so they can you know feel more inclined to opt out or they can get really frustrated because they're you know they feel your frustration that can cause feelings to build too um or they can just be kind of like well you're being weird so i'm just gonna go over here like no i don't know about that i'm like i'm just gonna go this way even our intonation um i find a happens a lot in the gildi um where handlers can be like good job but they're like saying in a way that's like you feel there's a little tension there where they don't really mean it but they're like you're doing so like come on let's go let's go and like cheerleading almost or just like being too emotive and the dog's like this makes me feel strange like i this feels wrong and they can like feel that added emotion in it even though we think we're like being so positive and helpful and like cheering them on um that can also affect dogs a lot and give them a lot of feelings um in those moments that they're like i can feel everything else happening here and this is a lot or if we often sometimes our emotions go too big in certain stances when we have that lack of emotion other circumstances that can almost feel punishing to them if they find that emotion really important to them as well um where they're like whoa you didn't cheer for me after i did this i feel weird you know they can have them make them have feelings particularly if they find agility important or if they find like your relationship and being correct for you important or anything like that um anything along those lines um and then also just you know being aware of environmental stuff and aware you know how the environment is helping our dogs too as a handler i think that's super important um and just understanding like you know the dogs around there's a lot of really excitable dogs in that

36:13

environment that can be really hard for a lot of dogs who are like staring at them or tugging or barking or you know also running agility and excited um or you know people who are also having emotions that can be difficult for dogs too so i think also just being kind of aware of that environment and how that's affecting our dogs and like you know if there's the option of like not having your dog in a building and your dog is really stimulated by the constant barking and running and all those signs um and being you know aware as a handler be like that's gonna be too hard for my dog my dog's never gonna rest they're never gonna get out of being not the best brain state i need to you know remove them from this environment or like not take them to this class or not take them to this trial because this isn't a place where they're set up for success i think is also an important piece yeah you started off you talked a little bit earlier about connection and the idea of being connected with your dog on course so i just want to go back to that for a second what does it what does it mean when we say you know staying connected with your dog on course how does that feel what does it look like what are we talking about yeah so i think um it can be kind of interpreted a couple of different ways i would say um i would say the most common way that people say connection on course um yeah because agility handlers or teachers will say like connect with your dog all the time and you know what does that mean um is being able to um be aware of where your dog is looking and where your dog is on course at all times so it doesn't necessarily like mean like staring at your dog um but having you know some amount of awareness so like you know having your head turned towards your dog or whatever um and allowing them to know where your eyes are at all times um so that you can then be doing the handling for them because if you're looking ahead at a jump instead of you know down towards the ground and seeing your dog not necessarily staring at them but at least seeing their feet um you don't necessarily know when your dog is you know looking towards the jump and saying like yep i've got it it's that jump so that you know you can send them and move on um or you can like cue a blind cross or front cross whatever it is um so if you're just kind of staring at the jump you don't know those things and so you don't end up handling for your dog you more just kind of like handle for the picture you have in your mind of like i'm gonna do a front cross on this jump and so that doesn't mean our dog is

38:37

necessarily ready for that front cross or you know needs a certain time so or you know or dog already you know committed to the jump like you know seven strides back and they needed to know you know then when it was um so being able to connect into them is basically being able to know where they are in space and then what they're looking at um and what they're thinking they're going to be doing next essentially um so sometimes that means looking directly at your dog when you're like sending them to something or sometimes that means um or collecting them and sometimes that means like looking down to the ground so always having some amount of your face or your eyes at all times i think it's a big part of being connected um i would say another piece of that too is also just like being aware of your dog's emotional state as you're entering so i think that's a big part of connection um and just being able to like see where your dog is at as you're entering the ring because again as a human it's really easy to be distracted as you're going in there's another dog or that is that dog leash did the judge tell you they can go yet are all the bars said yada yada yada um am i in the right place oh what was number five i forgot lots of things going on in your head at all times um so being you know being able to be with your dog um in any given moment um and making sure that you are not pulling yourself out of that you know bond and relationship that you have in that moment um and making sure that you're like actively with your dog to be like taking stock on their mental state and you know where they're looking what they're thinking like how is their facial expression looking is that they're you know good brain facial expression or are they looking at me like with the no brain facial expression um you know whatever it might be um are they vocalizing are they not vocalizing do they usually do one or the other all those things um you know are they looking around a lot or are they looking to me are they connected with me um i think you know that can go both ways as well um so i think that's another piece of it too that's not like the handling piece but it's a really important piece to be aware of as well is it possible to take a dog who maybe has already developed some pretty big feelings around agility and really work through them and in the end end up with kind of that connection and a dog who's successful and really a thinking agility dog yes absolutely for sure um i would say a big piece of it which is not a piece we all love to do is to take a dog out of um the current you know places that

41:07

are causing those problems though um which can be a hard ask sometimes particularly because like you sign up for agility trials like you know two months in advance or more whatever um and you're like oh but i got into that trial in like three months that i really want to go to um you know it can be really hard asked to be like you know i don't know if we should be going to that class and if we are going to that class maybe we shouldn't be running the course maybe we're talking to that instructor and being like hey can we practice you know this training loop or can we work on this pattern or can we work on just entering the ring um whatever it might be just existing in the environment um instead of actually doing you know this thing that you're teaching or is there a way that like you can help me like take advantage of this class without you know necessarily going in and just rehearsing that same um just catapult into big feelings that we're doing every single time um so you know for instance i have one dog in an in-person class with me and he just gets a lot of feelings and then just like wants to run around just sniff the perimeter the whole time um and so what we've done is there's like a little tiny space that's a practice jump a space um and we're only working skills in that space so that it's really easy for him there's not this like whole giant field where he feels like there's like way too much going on he's like a little bit more removed from everything going on um and he has less ability to do because he'll go like just run like a dog walk because it feels good he has less ability to practice those displacement behaviors that he's been rehearsing all the time um and now you know he's able to actually listen he's like oh you know he he's kind of like getting more into it he's able to take his reinforcement which he wasn't able to before um he's able to like work little skills within this small space because it's just an easier ask and it's easier to build up those skills from there um so you know there's a way to use the things you're already doing but in a way that's more productive for you um so you know i think that's a super important piece of the puzzle um as you know and if we go into trials and we're just scanning the environment the entire time or really stimulated by that environment um and you know we can't run at all or we can't say or we can't leave the start line or we're barking too much or we get frustrated and start knocking bars or running by things whatever's happening um if we keep rehearsing that then the

43:30

dog's brain is just rehearsing jumping into that space easier and easier um where and not regulating and just getting kind of like stuck in that brain space we'd rather they not be in so it's really important to get them out of those areas that they're just rehearsing the brain getting easy into that brain space easily and just kind of like learning on really learning regulation and then like easing a dog back into those environments and building um you know better brain state and having more tools to be able to stay within that brain state um i think are all really really important in order to get to that place so yes definitely possible it just you know you have to adjust some things that are probably currently going on in order to do so yeah so we're talking about this uh because you're offering a new class right so big feelings building the ideal brain state for agility um at ftsa in june can you talk a little more about the class you know what you're going to cover who might want to sign up some of that stuff yes for sure um so i would say it's both good for dogs who are um already have a lot of feelings around agility and again this a lot of times when we think about feelings around agility it's just the like you know barking spinning like grabbing like you know more obvious i don't know what i'm saying necessarily um but also these are dogs this will be appropriate for dogs who like also like shut down more like run off sniffing or just like opt out of training or you know all those kinds of things um and at the same time it's also applicable to dogs who don't have these feelings yet and you would rather they never develop these feelings um so you don't necessarily have to have big feelings to be able to get stuff out of this class you can also learn all of the tools um and the regulation skills um and you know learning how to bring these to your environment and your training structure without those feelings developing uh but then also definitely if you have those feelings this is all going to apply to you as well because that's you know the main point of the class but um but within this class we're going to learn kind of similar to what i was talking about before of like what you do for these dogs um so we're definitely going to work on reset stations because that's something that i find to be super super useful for agility um we're gonna work specifically on creating a training structure that's really easy for your dog to predict so even if the agility task you're working on isn't as easy for

45:56

your dog to predict that training structure is and they can feel good about understanding what's going to happen when um we're gonna work on teaching agility in like loops so skill loops so that you're really easy um for your dog to predict like for dog walk training for example like for my boy my skill loop is like he you know runs his dog walk he goes to a dot reward him at the dot i cue leash we leash back up we walk back to the start line because he feels really good on a leash it just he likes it being on a leash it like feels nice to him he'd rather do that than like run along beside me and then you know i take him off ask him to line up he lines up and then we do the dog walk again so like that's his little loop and that feels nice to the brain because they understand the predictability so like even if like you know there's a missed hit or something like that we can fall back on our training structure still um so we're going to learn that we're going to learn about how to transition from one task to the next because that can be really hard and agility as well um for dogs do we really focused on you know say we're doing turns to the left or something and then all of a sudden we stitch to the right and they're like whoa whoa whoa we were going to the left um you know how to do that easily without you know we're going to work on how to minimize frustration and training um via some regulation games um and then we're going to also do like just general arousal regulation games um as well as throughout class we're going to kind of layer those into and different you know pattern games but also just kind of like patterns and structure of how you make dogs feel better within their own environments um so they're like their current training and trialing environments and stuff too um and bringing in like different tools that you can use there and then also how to take that structure that we built um and bring that to those environments as well let's say are the main things um but we'll also like in there within the like regulation games there'll be games about dogs who have you know feelings about other dogs or like start line feelings and stuff there'll be all that within those games or structures too that's a lot of stuff a lot of things they all like go hand in hand with each other and they all build on each other um as you're going to so they all kind of like connect eventually but we just break them down to pieces so that you know the learning is easier for everyone yeah absolutely all right well thank you so much for

48:15

coming on the podcast brona yeah thanks for having me excited to chat about this and thanks to all of our listeners and our viewers for tuning in we'll be back next week this time with julie flannery to talk about what it takes to really finish training a behavior and whether that's even really a thing that's possible if you haven't already subscribe to our podcast either on itunes the podcast app of your choice or over on youtube to be sure you never miss an episode today's show is brought to you by the fenzy dog sports academy special thanks to denise fenzy for supporting this podcast music provided royalty free by bensound.com the track featured here is called buddy audio and video editing by chris lang thanks again for tuning in and happy training you