E112: 데비 토라카(Debbie Torraca) - "등이 긴 개들"

But I think we sometimes miss that a regular breed, I quote unquote, of course, the breeds are all regular, or mixed breeds may have a long back in relation to their body. So all dogs have the same number of spinous processes and things like that. So the actual length of the back is the same. However, it could be in proportion to their limbs, a longer back. So for example, years ago, many people were breeding Border Collies with longer backs to go through weave poles faster. And so with the longer backs, we have the positive, but then we also have the negative. So not always a great thing. Definitely, I wanted to teach this class because in my field of rehabilitation, longer back dogs are definitely at more risk for injury if a lot of proactive things are not taken into account. So yeah, we don't really think of, hmm, this German Shepherd has a long back. But when we look at their legs in proportion to their back and their body, any breed can have a long back, you know, even a chihuahua or, you know, thing dogs that we may not characteristically think about. So it is. And I keep adding more and more dogs to the list with long backs. And I know it's, and I'm learning a lot about different breeds throughout the world too. So it's pretty, pretty amazing as I keep, keep working on the class and adding more and more. Yeah. So if somebody's trying to figure out if their dog kind of qualifies, is there like, you mentioned kind of proportion to the legs and things like that. Is there like a way to judge that? Or is it just a matter of kind of going by your own gut feel as if the dog's just a little, little longer? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely by looking, I mean, there's ways and we'll get into class of measuring, you know, and determining if your dog really does have a long back. But I think for in general, looking at is the, if we kind of like in our mind took the lower limb and upper limb and kind of put them together, is their back longer than that? So if that makes sense. So the length of their upper leg and the length of their lower leg, and then took that measurement and laid it on the dog's back, is their back longer? And that's not a hard and fast rule either. You can definitely look at your breed description. So if, you know, your dog is longer in the loin than maybe the average, you know, or according to the breed description, your dog probably has a long back. And a lot of people will know their breed and they'll recognize that their dog does have a longer back. Um, sometimes it's also, it could be a weight distribution.

So thinner dogs may also look like they have longer backs because there's not as much surface area there. I see a lot of them, definitely. Certainly seems like there are more of them than I would have thought kind of, you know, looking at it initially. So what kind of injuries are these dogs more susceptible to or more likely to, uh, to have? First and foremost, back injuries. Um, the middle of the back or the thoracolumbar area is one of the most mobile areas of the dog's back. And this is right almost kind of in the middle of the dog's back. And that's one of the areas that is more susceptible. Um, dogs with longer backs may have problems with interoperable disc disease. They, um, are definitely at a higher risk. Also, a lot of soft tissue injuries, not only to their back, but also to their, uh, limbs. So for example, iliopsoas injuries are more common in dogs with longer backs because the iliopsoas has to control the area. And that's a muscle in the, um, dog's groin area. That's very powerful and really needs to control a lot of the dog's movement. The same thing with the forelimbs. If, if you think about a long caboose and if the dog is running and the forelimbs or the front legs are trying to stop the caboose, the front legs take a lot of stress. So, I mean, they're definitely susceptible. I would say first and foremost to spinal injuries and then soft tissue injuries, um, in both the back legs and the front legs. Are there things that can be done to kind of help keep them healthier, I guess, despite having that longer, longer back, longer spine? Absolutely. So weight is such a key factor. Um, you know, keeping a good weight on the dogs, not letting them become overweight or, or fat because that places a lot of stress onto their backs. Um, watching what they're doing, choosing the appropriate activities. So a dachshund, it was bred to do what a dachshund does. You know, they're going, doing earth dog stuff and digging holes and that sort of things. They're not really meant to do a lot of jumping activities. So choosing your activities wisely with these longer back dogs. And then of course, strengthening. So strengthening range of motion and proper core is paramount. So those, I always think about the long back dogs, educating clients in potential injuries, in proper weight management, and then also in the proper exercises. So, you know, this class will go through all of that, you know, everything that someone needs to know for their long back dog. Does that differ at all? If we're talking about a small or a short, I guess, long back dog, something like a dachshund, right?

Versus a bigger dog with a long back, like you mentioned German Shepherds, for example. So I think a lot of times we think of little dogs in general, that they can jump on and off furniture and not really realizing the ramifications of not so much the jump up, but the jump down. So a lot of the smaller dogs, long back dogs, jumping down, whether it be from a couch or a bed or out of the car, puts a lot of stress on their backs. There's a lot of concussive force that goes through their spine. And unfortunately, this is when many of them become injured. And it's more so in the smaller dogs, just because of the pure difference in height from a larger dog. I mean, certainly larger dogs, there's more weight and that sort of stuff. But the heights that they're jumping in proportion to the smaller dogs is different. And smaller dogs just tend to, you know, they get under things. They do their own little limbo exercises when going under chairs and coffee tables and stuff like that, that another dog may not do. So I, and little dogs too, we spend a lot of time picking them up and there's ways to pick dogs up without placing stress on them. We would never pick up a Great Dane, but we would scoop up a dachshund in a heartbeat. So, you know, looking at the proper ways of handling them. You talked a little bit about jumping up and down, but kind of other than that, how does it impact what the dog should or shouldn't do? So with the, what they should and shouldn't do, it's a lot of one, making sure that the dog can actually handle an activity. So when looking at sports and things like that, everyday activities with a longer back dog, try to eliminate jumping as much as possible. And I always realize, especially when I'm talking to clients, that they're dogs. They want to do fun things and we can't always control their actions, but if we can limit their jumping down from things by at least 50%, the other thing is running downstairs. So again, it's just a part of function. Dogs have to go up and down stairs and, you know, that's fine. But if we could at least lower or slow them down the speed in which they travel down the stairs, sometimes they're, you know, training tricks to helping slow down the mobility with, you know, maybe putting a treat on every other step as they're coming down. So you can start to slow the movement down, you know, and that sort of stuff. And this goes for stairs inside and outside the house. Ramps are always a good idea for getting the dogs in and out of the car. So with so many people having SUVs right now, not allowing the longer back dog to jump down,

but rather having them either step or use a ramp to move down. You know, and then, you know, looking at their, most of their activities should stay, I always joke, more parallel with the ground. So, you know, running and that sort of stuff is great, but try to reduce the perpendicular movement to the ground as much as possible, because that will place a lot of stress on their spine, you know, but there's no reason that they can't walk, you know, go for walks and hikes. And, you know, even if they could run, that's, you know, absolutely fine. And, you know, there's so many activities that they could do safely. And even their activities that you may normally not think, we don't see a lot of dachshunds and agility, but we see a lot of corgis, certainly. Yeah. So again, keeping them in shape and keeping their body composed and in good condition is all beneficial. Is there testing, like health testing that can be done or should be done if somebody wants to do sports? I think if you do have a long back dog and you do want to do sports, I always recommend having a sporting dog assessment done. And a lot of places do this throughout the country and throughout the world and sort of consists of just a baseline of the dog's health. Like, for example, we do them at our clinic and we do a gait analysis initially to determine how much weight has been put on each limb. We do a simple put the dog on a scale and determine if their body mass index is appropriate for their breed. Because that's something very, you know, very important. We also do what's called digital thermal imaging, which picks up on the different temperatures in the dog's body. So it will help determine if there's inflammation, which can relate to pain in a certain area or maybe even reduced temperature, which may be indicative of a neurological condition or something like that. And then a flexibility test. So a longer back dog may have a little bit tougher time reaching their nose to their butt or, you know, doing stretches like that. And they're going to need to maintain their flexibility and keep their flexibility. So I think starting with a baseline and getting a professional's opinion if the dog is appropriate for the different levels of exercise. And we see a lot of these dogs. And the owner may, I was asked them to give me their three wish listings. What would they love to do with their dogs? And we break it down from there. And, you know, it may be well that they could do everything, but just at a modified level. So, for example, if it's agility, maybe they're going to be recommended they jump preferred

instead of a higher height in their jumps. That makes sense. That kind of leads really well into my next question. Are there some sports that are going to be safer than others for these dogs? You know, some sports that maybe are definitely on the unsafe list? Yeah, you know, so it's always looking at the longer backs and especially the shorter legs. So I'd like to stay away from high-level jumping activities. And again, that doesn't mean that a long-back dog cannot do agility. It just means that they're going to need more attention. Fly ball, there's a lot of compressive forces on the spine. So, you know, maybe just making adaptations. And again, making sure the dog is in good shape and maintaining their range of motion and their weight and their strength. So, you know, and of course, I always look at does a dog really want to do an activity or are they doing it for another reason? Are they doing it because their owner really loves it? You know, and I like to, no matter what, when we work out with dogs, when I'm looking at dog sports, are the dogs adequately rested six hours after an activity? So if a dog is out on a hike and they come back and they rest for six hours and they get up and they're fine, that activity was most likely fine for them. If they're sore or they're having trouble walking or any lameness or limping, then that activity was too much and should be re-examined. That's kind of a nice rule of thumb to give it six hours and see how the dog's doing. I like that. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it's, you know, in this way we let them. And I use that in rehab. I use it with setting up conditioning programs. So that allows a lot of feedback for the owners and for, you know, and for me to determine what's going on with them. If the dog does wind up getting hurt, is rehab different or more difficult than it might be for a dog without a long back? And if so, how so? Good question. So I think with a longer back dog, it's going to take a little bit more focus on their rehab because we're, the muscles and the long back are going to atrophy and we just have more surface area. And there's movement is going to, either movement from the front legs or the back legs is going to affect their back. So really anywhere they move, it's going to have an impact on them. So we definitely see a little bit slower progression with a longer back dog. And because there's usually secondary and tertiary issues going on. So for example, if a dog hurts their mid back, they're going to compensate maybe with their lower back or the lower back and maybe their hips.

So a lot of times we see a lot of things going on. It's not just the one injury. And I always use the example, if we can't lift our arm to get, let's say, a cup of coffee on the top shelf or a cup for our coffee. And I'm a coffee fanatic. So that's definitely related to this. If I can't raise my arm, I'm going to arch my back backward. And over time, my arm may not bother me, but my back is going to start. So throw in a longer back dog with movements like this. So if a dog injures its shoulder, doesn't have enough shoulder range of motion, but is asked to go over a jump, whether it be a formal training jump or just a log in the backyard, they're going to start to put a lot of stress on their back. And if it's a longer back dog, then there's more implications there. So then it becomes a matter of treating the initial problem, but also making sure that long back is taken care of. Is there anything else you can think of that folks should know if they're considering the class or want to take the class that they should know kind of signing up to maybe help them decide or help them decide what level they should take it at? Yeah, I think, you know, I'm really excited about the class because it's something like I've been thinking about for so long. I'm so glad to offer this. I think people should be doing this. I think people should really take a look at their activity level with their dogs. You know, it doesn't matter if they're doing, the dog could be a professional, you know, couch surfer. But just if you do have a longer back and by my estimates, I would say half the dogs out there have longer backs. So just from what I see on a regular basis and, you know, whether they're your characteristic dogs that I mentioned or just different breeds, but to really look at improving their quality of life. So we all want our dogs, you know, to have the best quality of life for the longest time possible. I always say that about all the dogs I work with. But really looking at what level, you know, you'd like to work your dogs. If you want a lot of input, you know, definitely look at a gold or silver spot so I could see what's going on with your dog. Or if there's a problem that you've been trying to work through or even if you do have a dog that may necessarily not have a back issue, but they do have a longer back. But you've just been having some maybe stubborn behavioral issue, like they're having trouble with jumps or they're having trouble with their stays or their downs. It may be related to their longer back. They're longer back. So it may be something to look at. So, yeah.

Well, I think that's helpful. So I've got one last question here for you. And it's the question I've taken to kind of asking folks at the end who've been on before, you know, my new kind of last question here. What's something that you've learned recently or been reminded of when it comes to dogs or dog training? So I think I'm like constantly reminded of this and I don't know why I forget it. But I think dogs are much smarter with regard to their body than we give them credit for. And especially the line of work that I'm in with rehab and fitness. If a dog does not want to do something or can't do it, they'll either look for a compensation or they won't do it. So, for example, I mean, we just got over the flu season and how many of us didn't feel well, but we still went to work. And if a dog doesn't feel well, they're going to rest. And I don't think we as their human counterpart partners always realize that. So dogs always tell us if they can't do something or if they're too tired. And it's really just up to us to pay more attention to that or be more in tune with that. And I always try when I'm speaking with my owners and the dogs that I work with to let's get into it a little bit more. Because if a dog doesn't want to do something, why? You know, there's always a good reason. They don't think, hey, you know, I didn't get steak last night, so I'm going to refuse to jump in the car. There's a reason, you know. And I always, like, I catch myself and think, of course, you know, because they're much smarter than we give them credit for or than we think they are. So, yeah. And I always like to look at the physical before behavioral, you know, to make sure that there's not a physical reason for them not doing something. Absolutely. And that way, I mean, that way you never have regrets, right? It's never, well, you know, I spent all this time trying to fix a behavioral problem and that wasn't even the root of the cause. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah. So. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, Debbie. This has been great. Oh, thank you so much. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Kamal Fernandez to talk about his new book, Pathway to Positivity. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com.

The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Music.