E218: 스테이시 바넷(Stacy Barnett) - 성공적인 노즈워크견의 역량

kind of debuted this new model for thinking about the key capabilities of a nose work dog. So first, you know, why the model, what led you to create a new visual representation of what skills nose work dogs need? Okay. So a little bit about my background that I didn't talk about, I spent years in corporate as a management consultant. So like visuals and PowerPoints and everything, they just kind of, you know, it's, it's how I communicate. So, um, no, but, but as far as like a model goes, uh, I find that it's so hard for people to just really kind of understand what, or what are we trying to do? This, this, it's more than just, you know, the dog encounters a hide and finds a hide. There's so much more to developing a really solid nose work dog. And what I tried to do is just try to organize that in such a way that people can start to maybe understand how the pieces come together. And so they can see what do they need to focus on aside from the dog, just finding the hide. So that's why I put together the model because I thought it was maybe a good way to organize the information so people can kind of have an understanding of like the softer stuff. That's more than just encountering odor and finding a hide. And, but this is the type of stuff that really helps your dog to be a phenomenal dog versus just like, oh, Hey, here's a hide. Can I have my cookie? So it's a, it's, it's how do you create that really strong nose work dog? All right. So, so it breaks it down into kind of five main areas. Do you want to just go ahead and talk us through them? Sure, sure. And I have it kind of this radial diagram. And in my webinar, I did all kinds of like, I had, you know, animations and stuff. But I got my total geek on. Anyway, we start with independence. Okay. So this is the dog that just really, that can go out, that can seek, that doesn't need the handler to say, Hey, sniff here, sniff here, sniff here. It's also the dog that will go out and seek when there's no target odor around. So if they're not smelling target odor, when they get into the room, they'll still search. Right. And they they're able to work without the help of the handler. So, you know, if they start to work a problem, dogs with independence will continue to work that problem until they, they complete it where a dog without independence will start to look to the handler and go, I don't know where this is. Where do you think it is? Now in nose work, obviously we don't know where the hide is, um, as a handler in, in, um, in trialing. So a dog that refers to us and says, I don't know, what do you think?

You know, it's really going to be very challenging in order to try to actually complete that search successfully. So that's independence. Um, then you actually have the, um, the desire to search. Okay. So with a desire to search, this is a dog that has focus. This is where focus comes into play. This is where having the right level of focus, the right type of focus, right? You want the dog focused on the search. You don't want the dog focused on the environment or critters or dog pee, right? Or their handler. So it's, it's focused on the search. Um, and you also want them focused on the search and not on distractions. And I don't just mean distractions in terms of, you know, the, the crackers that are in the container. I mean, the environmental distractions, you know, you could, we're, we're searching in all manners of environments. A lot of trials are at campgrounds, fairgrounds. And let me tell you, some of those fairgrounds are not the cleanest places in the world. And we've got to tell you, I got stories. I've got stories. And the thing is, you know, we have to take our dog to the line. They've never seen the search area and they have to search at the drop of a hat. You know, the stopwatch starts, you don't have a whole lot of time to find those hides. So you need a dog that is impervious to those distractions. Then you have the dog that has to be hunting oriented, right? This is a dog that from, from a hunting orientation also has to understand it's not always on like an object, right? So if we always set hides on objects or dogs will always search objects, we need a dog that's going to encounter the odor and keep working, working that odor until they get to source regardless of where that hide is located. And this is going to require a lot of different scenting pictures, a lot of different ways, you know, that, that, that the odor works and a lot of variety in the dog's training. Then we get to something that I think hardly anybody talks about. And this is resilience to frustration because a lot of times, you know, if we go out and we're always setting easy, easy, easy hides and the dog honestly never makes a mistake. When they get into a situation where all of a sudden it's harder because guys, every time we go out, it's a different search every single time you search. So if the dog goes out and encounter something that's unexpectedly challenging, or maybe they're not getting into odor quick enough, they're going to experience a lot of anxiety. So you need to start to develop the dog's resilience to that frustration so that they can be optimistic in the face of that challenge.

And a lot of that has to do with positive searching history and allowing them a little bit of trial and error, you know, in a supportive way so that they can understand that it's okay to work a little bit harder. And then the last piece is being methodical. And I don't mean slow. I don't mean, you know, like usually you say, oh, the dog's methodical. And we're trying to be nice and you're trying to say, well, the dog's really slow. No. And, you know, like my poodle. My poodle is actually, actually, he's doing great on his problem solving. Anyway, methodical, a lot of that has to do with the arousal regulation. You know, can the dog search in a thorough manner, in drive, and in an appropriate level of being methodical, right? They have to be logical about it. There's a logical approach to searching. So a lot of these pieces start to come together. And these are really kind of the qualities of what you're trying to look at and how you train are really, it's all about all these qualities and how they kind of tie together. So it's a really long answer to a short question. That's all right. It was intentionally a question that would get a long answer. Okay, good. Okay. So with five things, like are any of them more important than others? Is it about, you know, a handler kind of evaluating their own dog's strengths and weaknesses to determine which pieces their particular dog kind of needs the most work on? Can you kind of dive into that piece? Yeah. You know, and that's a super question because that's really got, there's two dimensions to that question. You know, first of all, from the qualities, like is there kind of a hierarchy, right? And there is, right? So if you want to think about this hierarchy, now, first of all, before you even get into this model, you have to have a dog with some basic confidence and some basic motivation. So if you kind of take that and you say, okay, we've got that thumbs up, thumbs up, right? We've got confidence. We've got motivation. Now we start to say, okay, now in this model, what do we need to start to focus on first? Well, the first things we really need to focus on is independence, because if we don't have independence, we don't have anything. Right. So you literally have squat, right? Like you really, like your dog, if your dog isn't independent, you're not finding anything. So you kind of have to work on that first. We start to get into independence. You can start to build on the hunting orientation and the desire to search, right? That's kind of the next layer. Because a lot of that, what happens in there, you get a lot of, a lot of things that you're

working on focus. You're working on sourcing. You're working on odor obedience. All of that is tied in there. And then from there, we start to think resilience, right? Because then we need a dog that's not only, you know, they want to go out, they want to search. They have this desire. They have this focus. They understand how to get to source. Now we have to kind of layer in that resilience to frustration, right? And then, now that we have that, now we're making it incredible, right? We're helping the dog to search in a more logical manner. We're giving the dog the tools to regulate their own arousal. We're actually to be fluent, even when their arousal regulates a little bit unexpectedly. So all of those pieces kind of come together. But I think, you know, we do need to, that's the one dimension. The second dimension that I mentioned, or the second dimension is all about, do you have to self-evaluate? Because you're going to find that your dog may be strong in some areas and may be weaker in others. And that's kind of the art of training, right? It's not just about a recipe of do this, do this, do this, right? A lot of it has to do with now that your dog finds a hide, where is your dog weak? And I try to look at things in terms of that hierarchy. So I start, you know, like, you know, confidence and motivation, check, check. Okay, well, what about independence? If my dog isn't independent, I need to work there. You know, I'm working my, I've got a class right now on sourcing that I'm teaching right now in for sourcing, which gets into your hunting orientation and your desire to search. We do a whole lot with independence as kind of laying that groundwork. So you have to like, you have to kind of layer in that stuff so that you build it on those foundational pieces. Once you have those foundational pieces, you can start to layer on the really cool stuff. And what you're going to find is when you start to build all these qualities, then it's just a matter of increasing the skill level. And that part is the easy part, right? So all this stuff is just kind of like making, this is where the magic is, you know, it's just kind of cool stuff. So when we were talking about this a little bit before, before the podcast online, you kind of mentioned a line about sometimes, you know, handlers, as soon as their dog can find the hide at home, they kind of go sign up for that first trial, right? Right. So how strong does a dog really need to be in kind of each of these areas before it's really reasonable to start thinking about that trial, right?

It's like, yeah, how does that kind of, how does it tie into the actual trialing and the first trial piece? Yeah. And you know, it's kind of a tough question because it is going to depend on the dog, right? But I think what we need to do is we need to realize that trialing, you know, every time the dog goes out and they trial, it's going to be a new environment. It's going to be a new scenting fixture. So you've got to be able to give your dog such a variety of hides and scenting fixtures and start to work on the dog. First of all, should be independent, right? Well, you should have confidence and motivation in the bank before you start trialing. The dog should be independent. That needs to be in the bank, right? Then, you know, you want to have a little bit of that hunting orientation. The dog needs to have the desire and enough focus that they can easily and enthusiastically get through the search without losing focus and without having to be recued. So if you're finding yourself saying, you know, Fido search, Fido search, Fido check, you know, I hear a lot of people check, check, search here, search here. If you're finding that you're doing that, you're not ready yet, right? Because the dog has to have that inner desire and that understanding and that fluency of no matter where you are, when you release that dog, that dog starts to search. And, you know, and a lot of that has to do with your routine and how you set up. But the dog has to know as you walk up to the start line based on your behaviors as a handler, your dog has to know, oh, hey, I'm searching. Whether or not there's target odor in the area, right? Right. So even my puppy, eight months old, right? I walk up, I hold her collar a certain way because I do a collar release on the start line and I just release and she's like, oh, I'm searching, right? So you need to have that level of fluency. Do you have to have a methodical dog when you start to search? No, you don't. Do you have to have some resilience or frustration? Maybe a little bit because you don't want the dog to experience anxiety when you're already in a trial environment. The last thing you want is a bad experience or even a neutral experience at a trial. You want your trial experiences to be super, super positive. So if you're thinking like, well, we'll just wing it, you know, you're at risk of a neutral experience or even worse, a negative experience. You know, because again, the dog has never seen the search area just because, you know, it's the pavilion over around the corner. Your dog doesn't know that, right? Dog doesn't even know this is a timed event, right?

Or the little flags. Your dog has no idea what those are either. So we haven't even explained the rules of the game to the dog. So, you know, we've got to, we've got to make sure that we're really supporting them and make sure, and you will know by the dog's level of enthusiasm and their emotions that they bring to the trial, you know, to the search. So. I kind of broke this into two parts, but are there other things that people should be considering other than kind of those five aspects that are kind of specific to trialing? Yeah. You know, a lot of it has to do with variety, right? It's really getting the dog out into a lot of different environments. A lot of the, yeah, I know it's like, it's like broken record. The hardest part of all training. I'm telling you. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And you know what guys, I have to tell you, there's an opportunity that a lot of people miss and it happens all the time. And right now it's springtime. So let me tell you, it's happening a lot. Although if you're down under, I guess it's not spring tangent. Anyway, it's still happening. Weather, right? The weather changes. So when you get out, when it rains, you know what, let's say it's raining. You go, oh, cool. This is time to search, right? Get out there in all kinds of weather. Don't be afraid of rain. Don't be afraid of snow. Don't be afraid of wind. Wind is your friend, by the way. Don't be afraid of any of these types of weather. You want to get out there. Think of that as an opportunity to say, cool. I got to learn how to search in the rain today. And, and, you know, use that as an opportunity. And the other thing that you can do, the cool thing about nose work is that we don't need a training building to search. We don't need a training building to train. You don't even need a park. Just drive around. You're like, hey, that empty storefront looks kind of cool. Let me pull over there instead of hide, right? Or, oh, you know, somebody left their front loader in the parking lot. That looks cool to me. You know, Home Depot, rental equipment, all kinds of good stuff, right? Get in your car, drive, look, look at places, you know, and you're going to find really cool places to search. If you do that and you get your dog out in all kinds of weather and you expose your dog and you make it fun, right? Make it fun. Emotion. Bring out the emotions in your rewarding, right? All these things are going to help you get ready to trial. So what aspects of the process do you think people kind of overlook when they're starting to prep for trialing? Oh, yeah.

I think a lot of times people start, this is, I don't know if you remember, we had this conversation, this training versus trialing thing. I think people, when they make a mistake, they make the mistake of training to trial, right? So they're picturing what the test looks like. Like, oh, well, the test looks like 10 boxes. I'm thinking AKC Novice, right? So therefore, I'm going to set out 10 boxes and I'm going to drill these boxes and gosh, darn it, my dog's going to find the right container, right? Rather than thinking about how do I train my dog? And training is training, trialing is testing. And I think that, and especially with nose work, I think people start to get so wrapped up into, well, you know, I need to train this skill. I need to train that skill. I need to, I need to destroy these containers because you really do destroy them when you just drill them over and over and over and over, right? And, and, and they go out and they're like, they're setting, they set highs that are very trial-like, like, you know, maybe under the chair, right? Well, they're always under the chair, right? It's always under the seat of the chair. It's always on the wheel of the, of the, of the bucket. It's always on the garbage can. It's always on the, right? And, and we neglect the fact that we're trying to teach our dog to source odor. So we need to start, start building and, you know, can the dog build that drive to source? You know, can you set up a search that challenges the dog and pushes the dog so they have to work hard and solve a problem? Because if you can create a problem solving dog, I guarantee you, you can find that chair hide. Easy peasy. Yeah. It's not, it's not a matter of teaching to the test. It's a matter of teaching the skill. Right. Right. It's teaching the capability. Yeah. Right. And, and, and rather than thinking about, well, what is my novice buried test going to look like? Or what is my, you know, oh, when I have to find two hides. Okay. You know it's all about, okay, well, can you find that hide when the hide is in the sun? Can you find that hide when the hide is, you know, when, when you've got wind, can you find that hide when there's a whole lot of clutter or you're on the grass or, you know, there's some distractions in the area or, oh, Hey, maybe a dog peed in that area the day before. Right. You know, that, that's what you need to work on, you know, and getting some depth in that hike and they drive into source. So making sure that the dog really knows how to do above and beyond kind of necessarily just the skills being tested. Exactly. It's fluency, right? Yeah. Yep.

So, um, can you like drill down and talk just a little bit more about what foundation skills dogs really need in nose work, maybe starting with, um, the piece people usually think of kind of the following the odor to source piece. Yeah. They, they usually, what we usually think of, um, the foundation for the, there's a, there's a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about. I know it's a big question. Yeah. A lot of stuff that we've been talking about, but I think, you know, if you can get your dog really focused on, um, target odor, only target odor, um, increasing the motivation for that target odor by, um, making it a lot of fun. Um, and, and putting in, you know, I like to make it a reward event, um, so that my dog gets excited. Um, the other thing, oh, you know what, what people usually, um, uh, cause I'm just going to pick and choose a little couple of pieces. Um, something that I've noticed that people neglect a lot is they don't put a clear start and stop on a hide, right? So you get a lot of people and they're so focused on getting the dog to be sticky at that hide. Like they go and they find the hide, the dog becomes so sticky. The dog doesn't know how to disengage and find another hide. So you find that then, then they get sticky and then the handler doesn't know how to transition into a new hide. So it's kind of like, you can kind of get capped then at that point at one hide to one an effective one hide anyway. And, um, so you, you need to give the dog the capability to kind of the start and stop understanding of, okay, now this hide is done. Um, because when, when you start to build that in as a foundation, you're going to be able to get a dog so that they can start to, um, be able to look for another hide and say, all right, well, this one's done. Um, and I, I think that's a foundation that a lot of times we don't, we don't necessarily think about. The foundations are huge, but I just figured I'd pick one thing that I've kind of noticed. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Um, to, uh, to kind of round things out, um, with one last question, um, if you're kind of to drill down the stuff that we've been talking about, um, into one key takeaway, I guess for, uh, for nose work handlers and the thing that you really wish they kind of all understood, um, what would that be? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of related, kind of not. Um, what I want people to kind of think about that. I think sometimes we forget as humans, cause as humans, we see what are, with our eyes. And let me tell you, my nose is useless. And my guess is most, most of your noses are pretty useless.

Um, or at least I can't smell the way my dogs can smell. Um, and what I can say is that the world of odor is very different than the visual world that we live in. And we have to be aware of that. And so for instance, if the hide looks easy to you, it doesn't mean it is easy, right? It could mean that it's completely complicated because we're talking, we're talking airflow. So, you know, you really want to think about like airflow actually contributes to complexity. It contributes to, you know, the future, the dog's future search behaviors, right? But if you're, if you find that your dog can't find a hide, first of all, blame the hide first, blame the dog. Well, don't blame the dog, but blame the hide first, right? Because if your dog can't find the hide and your dog knows odor, you might have a bum hide. So you want to kind of, um, and, and, and I think a lot of times handlers get into this, um, kind of dynamic of trying to help their dog because they assume that the hide has got to be easy and they get so emotionally invested in finding that hide that they, that they can cause some issues in their training. Um, it's okay to leave a hide behind or to say, Hey, you know what? This hide is just not acting the way that I thought it was going to act. And, uh, and it's okay not to find it. All right. Well, that kind of rounds us out. Um, did you want to just quickly mention the classes that you have coming up? I know that, uh, do you know them off your head? I've got, I've got some cool classes coming up. So in June, um, I am teaching NW 130, which is kind of our core class, uh, our third core class. And it's the advanced nose work skills, um, that gets into just kind of like your, your inaccessibles, your elevated highs, like it's kind of your distractions, kind of like that next level up. And it's a skills class. Um, I'm also teaching NW 175, which is actually taking a lot of what we talked about tonight and building that out. Right. So it's, it's really getting that, that foundational piece to help you get ready to start thinking about trialing. It's a super, super, uh, follow on to like NW 120, where you start to understand like how to do your basic searching. So it takes your basic searching and it makes it excellent. Um, and then I have, um, a third class, which is, um, all about just, just hide setups, right? So it's six weeks of hide setups. And basically it's not meant to, you know, you don't have to feel like, oh my gosh, I'm falling, I'm falling behind. I can't do everything. It's something that you can actually pick and choose. And if you have limited time, it's actually kind of cool.

Cause you can say, oh, well today I'll do, you know, this exercise. So, um, so it's going to be, it's kind of like a different types of challenges and you could, you can kind of pick and choose for your dog. Awesome. Thank you very much. Stay making the time for, for slipping this in. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Don't miss it. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fendi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fendi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. o o !