E261: 줄리 사이몬스(Julie Symons) - "멀티 스포츠견"

I had him certified a couple of years ago and had to get him recently. He's certified. And that was just, it was just smooth as can be. He did a great job. And then my young dog, Moxie, I can't believe it's three already. There's just some, I know she's still a puppy at camp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She was a naughty, naughty little puppy, I think. But there's something about her, you know, she just has a very soft expression, a very flowing movement. And she's just really, you know, racking up the, you know, the performance titles as well. She's super fast in agility. She's building some strength and pushiness and hurting, which I think is boding well for her overall personality. Give her a little bit of, you know, kind of, you know, just a little bit of push and things that she needs to do. Um, and, uh, she's just really proving to be a nose work star. She's, she's, um, you know, my third dog I've trained in nose work now. And, you know, we always train a little bit better, um, improve our skills. And, and she's really, um, as a result of that, I'm seeing some really good outcomes. So, and, um, and, and just to quickly say my, one of my biggest accomplishments this last year is getting, earning my first hurting trial titles. Um, I've had like a hurting trial to HT in the past, like my first herb. Um, but both of my dogs are in their started title ducks and Moxie has two legs on their started sheep title. And, and she'll finish that this year, that title, but it's so fun to focus on another sport. Cause I do think we can get a little stale or a little, um, just getting, I don't know, just, I think having something new to different, but it's the hardest thing I've, I've done. Um, I travel a little bit more for training. Um, and it's just, you just have to be so focused and so such a good handler to process the stock and your dogs. And, and my two dogs, Moxie and Drac are at the total end of the spectrum with their, with their, with their, uh, you know, um, responses and, um, uh, arousal. And, um, but I, I, they enjoy it so much and they have such natural talent and that's why I do it if they didn't have natural talent for it, it would be too much. It would be too much. It really would. So, so that's it. Um, yeah. Let's see if I can recap this. We've got tracking, agility, nose work, hurting. Did I leave anything out? Oh, agility. Oh, agility. Okay. And I do confirmation, we know, limited, you know, just, yeah, I think that's it. I think that's it. That's it, huh? Um, so obviously you do a lot of different sports and you've done a lot of different sports with your dogs.

Um, are there benefits to that kind of cross training to kind of doing a little bit of everything? I really think there is. I think there's, um, I think dogs like versatility and I find that each one benefits the others. Like where one sport may require more speed and accuracy, another one requires more thoughtfulness or another one requires more handler queuing or another one requires more independence. And if you sit back and just look at what you have trained your dog to do and they understand the context and you have them on stimulus control really. Right. And I don't know, it's just, it's, and it started with my first dog rival where I never knew like you could do all this stuff. And, and, and especially once you get to a maintenance, mostly a maintenance level with your dogs, it's there, it's all there. If you've done a good job, you know, with your foundations and, and, um, you know, you, you're a good, you know, handler and you trial well. Um, that's something I find that I do well. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I can pull it together as a competitor in the moment. Right. Like I might be, I'm probably, I'm definitely nervous and I'm like with hurting, for example, I'm still like, okay, I hope I know all the rules and what I'm supposed to do, but I can, I can somehow like just bring it together in the moment that I need to, most of the time. I mean, I'm not perfect, but, um, it's, it's, but yeah, but it's like when you have your dogs are so used to working with you and in different capacities, you just have this communication system. And it's just, it's just nothing I can think of that compares to that, to that feeling. So I'd imagine in addition to the perks, there are also some hardships that kind of come with that whole training, multiple sports thing, um, scheduling, right. If nothing else. Uh, so what do you maybe see as, you know, the best and worst aspects of doing more than one sport with your dogs? Um, yeah. And you can add the struggles of having multiple dogs and multiple sports, um, because Savvy is now 14. She just finished, you know, right. About two years ago, getting her nose work championship. So I actually had three dogs, you know, working across, um, you know, up and coming ones and then one finishing up. Um, and so the best thing about that is I become a better handler and my dogs get to do so many different kinds of things that are enrichment and, and, and it's stimulating, it's stimulating for them to the point where they almost crave it. Like they don't, I mean, they're very good off switch dogs, but they want to go do stuff.

And, um, you know, they're just very, very willing partners. Um, but I would say that that's the, um, I think the best perk is that I, I can read my dogs better. Um, and a lot of times the training, there isn't that much extra training. I mean, of course there is the specific sports, but a lot of the things you train carry over to the other sports. So there's, there's some overlap there. And, uh, do you want, do you have a question? No, I was just gonna say, and the worst piece. Yeah. Yeah. The hardship, um, the scheduling for sure. Right. I am, I, I feel like I said earlier, like I get kind of maxed out and, um, you know, and then I still have to come home and I have a family and a house, you know, and, and, and things else I have to do. Um, and I get annoyed when I have to go to an appointment or something like, I don't have time for that, but, um, but I have, but what I've done is I've created more flexibility in my schedule for my competition, um, activities. Um, that comes first now over teaching and it's been very liberating for me. I mean, I would say a couple of years ago, I would, you know, agree to go do seminars and judge when I used to be an AKC judge, which just recently, um, you know, I retired from that, but, um, I just got a little resentful, um, because I worked so hard to train my dogs and then I, and then they, they could get injured or they get, they age out. Right. And then you're like, gosh, I really, I'm really goal oriented and I, and I, and I, I train to compete. Um, it's just very rewarding for me. And so I, I just kind of switched. I'm glad I have the ability to say I can turn down work, you know, um, that I can go and do stuff. My dad, I have two young dogs in their prime and I'm really enjoying them. So that's just, you know, I think been, been good for, um, it's just been good for me, you know, been good for me too. Um, and I think the, oh yeah. So the most difficult thing though, is comparing to past years when the sports in general didn't have as, um, harder technical requirements. Um, meaning it's so, you know, the, the, over the years, every sport changes the rules and make things a little bit harder. Um, so it's a little bit harder to excel at multiple, at the top, excel at the top with multiple sports and also with multiple dogs. Cause you're going to have to cut a little bit off, you know, cut corners a little bit, or, or you're just not gonna be able to train as much. Um, but the good thing is that I'm, I'm more focused on my dog's experience than I am with the outcomes. Like I love to go to my weekly agility class with the local place.

And I actually kept forgetting to enter our local trials. Cause I had so much fun going to my local, my local class, because I have this fast, fun dog and I'm learning, running these really cool things. And I'm just as thrilled to run it clean in class. And then I forget, oh yeah, I got to enter that trial. And that's very different for me because I do like to compete, but I, I am, um, just really enjoy when I'm a student, you know, I'm just enjoying that so much with my, my dogs that enjoy the sport as well. Um, so I thought that was kind of, um, kind of funny and, um, you know, but I'm still doing well, you know, I'm getting high in trials, I'm getting high in trials and hurting, I'm getting high in trials and nose work, um, and I'm placing, um, so I'm still, I'm still pretty, uh, competitive, um, but it is hard. It is hard to, um, kind of go to that next level in some of the sports, but I'm okay with that. I'm okay with, I'm okay with what I'm doing. I don't have to be the best. I don't have to be the top. Um, um, uh, and it's just, it's just harder now. I just, I just don't think you can spread yourself as thin anymore because of the technical requirements, the sports are asking, you know, of, you know, of competition. Yeah. Yeah. So let's dig into kind of the, the sports that you teach for FTC a little bit more. So at FTC you do both, um, kind of nose work and obedience stuff. Um, and you've got a workshop coming up on the 20th, March 20th on going to source for nose work. Can you just tell me a little about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a repeat workshop. I think this might be my third time I'm, I'm teaching it. Um, and it focuses on setups to rehearse a high rate of reinforcement about going to source. Um, going to source means that a dog is going to get their source, their nose as close to source as possible. Um, and the source is actually usually a 10 with some scented, um, two tips inside of it. Um, and I find that we can get a little sloppy, um, with allowing, um, a little bit too less precision, um, in the, in the beginning. And, um, if you build that criteria, um, on the dog having to get, you know, as close to source as possible, it just, it just is going to set the strong foundation for, for later when, you know, when you're going to let some of that go and especially some hides aren't accessible. Um, but it's a, it's a, it's a fun class. It's a fun, fun class. And it, and it, and it's going to deal with, you know, some pooling situations and the difference between pooling and actual source and inaccessible hides as well.

So what are some of the reasons that, um, a dog might, you know, fringe or indicate kind of not at source? Yeah. Um, early on, or when AKC set work came out on the scene, one of the things I noticed is with the AKC uses two drops of odor, which is a lot. And then they CSW is probably, um, I don't know, just a half of that. I mean, I'm sorry, not even a half, like a fourth of that amount. So what I found is when you put out a stronger amount of odor, when the, when the, when it disperses, the dogs pick up, um, a threshold of, of odor that they're used to about two, three, two, three feet away. And they will sometimes, you know, false that far away because they pick up the amount that they're used to. And all that really means is that you need to train with low amounts and high amounts of odor. Um, cause there's a difference between actual source and, um, odor that's, you know, dispersing in the lower gradient into the air. Um, but I think some of it is also lack of confidence on, um, the dog, um, um, handlers not having a consistent criteria. Um, I think a lot of handlers will encourage a dog to get closer by saying, show me. And then that gets like chained in, um, to the final behavior. Um, I also think some dogs, um, again, if it's a confidence level, um, or they don't, they lack a little bit of understanding, they get in odor, they're actually in odor and they just kind of anticipate, um, getting rewarded. Um, and especially for dogs that like to paw or dog handlers that, uh, that kind of encourage or wait for a dog to paw at source. And that's kind of a, a tricky line because you can get faulted. Um, and you don't want dogs to scratch like vehicles and things like that. Um, but I see that with some, some trained behaviors that are not nose focused. Um, when it's like a pawing or a sit behavior, dogs will, they, they just trip that trigger a little early and say, Oh, I'm an odor. I'm going to get paid. And so they, they, they sit or they paw before they actually get to source. And then the handler could call that, um, read that incorrectly. Um, so those are some of the reasons. Um, and it's just being a little bit sloppy, I think with our criteria and maybe where we even reinforce our dogs at. And, and I actually just, I actually don't see this issue as much anymore as I did years ago. I really do think of the, um, FDSA program has really done a good job in, in valuing the skill of, of not only going to source, but also building duration at source. Because if you don't have, we're only talking one to three seconds, right?

At source, you know, you can't immediately tell your dog you're, they're right. When you know where the height is, because when you don't know where the height is, you need to read a little bit more of your, you need to see a little bit more from your dog at source. So we, we spend, you know, uh, quite a bit of focus on building, um, just some small amounts of duration at source. And then once you get that, you know, the dog is tends not to trip the trigger a little earlier, they get a little bit more confidence of their criteria. Um, and it's not always just, you know, it's just, it's a little bit of sometimes I'm going to let you know sooner. Sometimes you have to, you know, stay a little bit longer. And, and, and, and, and for the way that I teach, I use again, some stimulus control. I want the dog to listen to my marker, um, versus watching me. Um, I use a marker, yes, or yep, or whatever, when they're at source and training, um, that they learn to continue working until they hear that, right? They'll continue to work until they hear me mark, um, being at source. So is the source always where the odor is strongest? Um, you know, can, how, how can I do it like to tell where the actual source is? Yeah, um, not necessarily. Sometimes odor will be, um, a little stronger of pulling over by something. Um, if it's channeling, um, you know, or through like a tube, I mean, so we'd like never put hides in a tube or, or in a, in a very, um, you know, on a, on a location where you're going to create a channel of odor. That's going to be more stronger, like at the other end. Um, but one thing that I've kind of learned recently of a good way to describe this is that pooled odor does not keep emitting more sense. It's, it's kind of becomes a static amount, whereas actual source is constantly dispersing, um, you know, more odor out. And then the dog, you know, learns to work closer to that. And, and, and I describe it as a bunny rabbit under the bush. A dog doesn't stop two feet short of a bunny under the bush. They know, they know the difference between the sense of, of the bunny for, you know, running under the bush and the actual bunny under the bush. Um, so dogs naturally know how to, to get that bunny. So I, you know, I relate. Yeah. So I relate a lot of this to dogs, you know, prey drive. And that's kind of how we want dogs to treat odor or source is that, you know, get to source and, and, and, and, you know, get to that prey and get as close as you can to it. And, and, and dogs naturally, I don't know how they do it per se, but dogs do understand

the difference from, you know, being two feet away from something and being right at that actual source just from their survival or, you know, you know, primal instinctive nature. Um, but I think what happens is as handlers, we can inadvertently like reward a dog off source. And then the dog's like, Oh, that's all I have to do because it's not, you know, of course it's not a bunny rabbit. It's not a, a primary, you know, reinforcer, but, um, you know, it's kind of cool to look at it that way. And I think if we, so much of training sometimes is just us conceptually understanding how it works and you go, Oh, okay. If I know how it works, then I can train, I can train for that. Like, if you like, like, it's almost like when you do tracking or something, like you're like, how does the dog do this? But if you kind of learn a little bit more about the science and how their nose works, their olfactory system works. And then, and if you, if you just, you know, if you can understand their ability to do it, then you can like, Oh, kind of open up, you know, your understanding of, of, I can, I can not even push them, but I can ask them to do this because it's, it's, doable. It's within their, their tool house, I guess, or whatever, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I like the bunny analogy. I think that works well. I think it explains the concept well. So you also have your nose work competition class developing sensational skills for competition on the schedule for April, which is right around the corner. Now I can't believe how fast this year is flying by. I know. It has. It has. Do you want to share a little bit about the class? Yeah. I love this class. I can't remember when I created it. It might've been about two years ago. I have, um, when I was finishing up a one 20 class, you know, I had these group of people for four months working with them and I'm, I'm in another great series of finishing up with a group from one 20 and we're on a great momentum. We're on a great role. People are excited. They're working well. The dogs are working well. And I don't want to not have them to have something next term with me. So I created this class, um, so that now that they have, their dogs are in odor, they're actually hunting, um, kind of touched on some, you know, introduction to some advanced skills. Um, they're going to start thinking about trialing. Um, and it might be, you know, they might think about trialing in a couple months, maybe even just an early, like, um, we call it, there's an odor recognition test that NACSW requires that you just have to, um, search, you know, 12 boxes to find one odor.

Um, and then you have to do it for each odor and, and you can't even enter a trial until you pass this, um, this test is kind of like a certification, um, like we do in tracking. And I think sometimes people, I do think people trial too early and I'm trying not to encourage that by having this, you know, um, this prep class, but it is, it's, but it's, it's now focusing on handling. Like I've spent four months with these 101 and 120 students on the, on the skills, the dog skills. And we've touched on handling, but not a lot. And now I'm like, I got to go over handling with them. I got to go over the setups that they may encounter. I'm going to discuss what could go wrong. What are you going to do if your dog is distracted? You know, and, and I, they need to know that stuff. I can't have them wait six more months, you know, um, and, um, and to make sure you're ready to trial. So I'm trying to catch them to say, you know, can your dog walk on slippery floor? Can your dog, um, you know, go to novel places and, and, and be able to function. And, um, and, and, and, and so it's, it's just a, it's a great continuation course for my existing students. What news work organizations, um, do the materials in the class kind of apply to, or are they relevant for? Are there, are there differences that need to be taken into account kind of as you're preparing the trial? There's very few differences, um, to be honest. Um, I think there's more commonality across the different organizations. Um, of course there'll be different scents that the organizations, organizations use, like Canada uses, um, you know, wintergreen instead of birch and things like that. But again, teaching a new order is, is the easiest part. Um, but I do focus more on NICSW and AKC. Um, however, I have students all over the world who benefit from the material, um, Australia and New Zealand and, um, Canada and, um, and, and a lot, I wouldn't say a lot, but I know some of the other, um, countries built their rules off of NACSW. Um, and I actually consulted with, I think it was Australia. I consulted with their, with their, their rule creation, um, with what, with one of my students who was on their, on their committee. Um, so yeah, it's, it's really agnostic, I guess I would say, I would say it's generally agnostic. Um, if I have a particular, particular thing, like for AKC, I, I, um, introduced buried, which is hides in sand and water. And I said, this is completely optional. If you're not going to do AKC, you don't have to do this stuff. It's kind of fun, but it's a lot of work and it's a lot of manual, like labor with like water and sand.

Um, so yeah, I definitely will point out what is unique to an organization for sure. Yeah. So what are some of the things that students do need to know about their dog skills before they enter that first competition? Oh, that's, that's a good question. Um, you definitely need to make sure your dog can focus and, or recover. I mean, I think dogs are going to be distracted. You know, they're not robots. I like to give my dogs a chance to look around. Um, they deserve that. Right. And my example, it's kind of a funny example. If I go into a strange place, I might want to look around and make sure there's not an ex-murder around or something. Right. I mean, you need to sometimes survey your environment, um, to feel secure and, um, and you need to, and they need to be able to recover. So they might be startled initially, or, oh, I hear a noise that they, they need to be able to recover and get back to work. Um, but the key thing is they need to be able to work in novel areas. I can't stress that enough. And that's almost, um, you know, anybody that I work with, um, and some privates, um, the number one thing I tell them is to get to novel areas. And actually, even in, um, my class right now in 120, we have a big push right now is to get to novel areas for exteriors and vehicles. And that's challenging, uh, or interiors too. I mean, it's hard to find interior locations, but you know, they're rock stars at home and it's, this happens to every dog. I mean, there's the, there's those rare dogs that are just, you know, so stable and they, they were, or, or, or they're dogs who have already done other sports and they're doing this later in life. And the dogs are already pretty stable in their environments. But, and it's, and it's, it's like you, we like to stay in our comfort zone, right? Well, if I train at home, I, I, I feel good about it. Um, if I go out and, and, um, work in novel places, we struggle and you don't feel so good about that, but they're all seeing the value and they're seeing improvement. And, and it's just so, it's so key. So that's the, almost the main, the main, main thing as you dog has to be able to work in novel places. Um, you know, of course you need to be able to have a readable indication and your dog needs to have a desire to hunt, like the basics of nose work. Um, and then to work through some unexpected or expected or unintentional distractors. Like they don't have distractors intentionally, the novice level, but there could be a dog that peed in the search area right before you, or had been there at the site, you know, prior to the trial. Um, and there's just other dog smells.

I mean, you have a bunch of, you're running last after, you know, 40 dogs and you, you're following all these other dogs that are drooling and walking through the search area and sometimes stepping on boxes or whatever. And if you have a dog that's very distracted by other dog smells, that that's, that's challenging. So I would say those are the things, you know, novel areas, um, a dog that can indicate and hunt and that can, can, can process and, and dismiss, um, some, I would hopefully say mild distraction. Yeah. So you've also got a few other nose work things in the works, right? Do you want to share a little bit about those? Yeah, I'm really excited about this. I decided my, I don't know if it's my resolution. I don't know your new year's resolution, but I wanted to get some, um, you know, newer topics out there. Um, and I like the workshop route. I think that that really kind of really a focus, the topic, um, and kind of specialize in what somebody may want to work on without having to take a six week class. Um, and it's about, um, multiple hides. They're, they're both about multiple hides. And in May, I'm doing one called one of a kind hides, you know, how to teach your dog not to go back to find hides. And, um, the one in July, it's, uh, deconstructing the challenge of close hides. Um, so initially you're not going to have hide super close, but the dog needs to be able to find one, leave it. No, it's not going to pay again and then be able to go find another one without trying to go back to get fed. Um, you know, on the, on the first one that they found. And then, and then later on, we need to get those hides closer so the dog can work, you know, potentially some converging odor. Um, and I'm excited about that one because I don't even want to call them converging hides because I think most hides don't, you know, they never perfectly converge. A dog is again, the dog's ability, they can decipher between two different scents and separate them out better than we can realize. When I first started nose work, I was so scared to do multiple hides. I, I put it off with my first dog. I would make them really far apart. And then I realized they can do this. They can do super close hides like many of them. Um, you know, when, when you're further along. And so I'm really excited about those two topics, just about dealing with multiple hides and the conflict, um, that can come about when your dog goes back to found hides or won't work for the next hide. And it's the number, probably the number one question I've been getting lately is how do you have your dog and go back to found hides? You know?

And so that's why I started, I developed these just because that's, that's been the main question I've been getting. I have a lot of students getting into nose work three now and getting into elite and the challenges are increased for them. And this isn't a very important skill because you're on that time limit and your dog has to not waste time trying to get fed at a previous hide. Um, and just kind of teasing those topics apart that, that the dog really can remember, um, where hides have been. And I have, you know, just real have proof of it because our dogs will go back to the same hide the next, the same location the next day. If you, you know, they will, they will go, the dogs will go check every place that the hides were earlier in the day or the day before. And they, they have a very strong cognitive ability on their memory. Yeah. So I'm excited about those two new things. Yeah. All right. So in addition to all that nose work stuff, um, you're also offering your obedience starter games course. Do you want to share a little bit about that? That's going to run in April too, right? Yes. And I'm really excited about this class. It's one of my favorite ones. I get a lot of people already asking me about it. Um, I think the layout of it is really appealing to people. Um, I roll out daily games, um, mostly bite-sized. I can't, um, um, say that all of them are bite-sized chunks because some of the topics get a little bit, you know, you know, more advanced, but, um, um, but there's hopefully bite-sized chunks that you can play each day. Um, with the ultimate goal is to see a transformation in your dog who looks forward to working with you every day. You know, you have these short, fun sessions, um, without, you know, a lot of, um, pressure or precision and it just results in a stronger bond. Um, I, I just saw that with my own dogs and, um, I see it with the students that go through this class. Any prerequisites, age, skills? Um, it's actually, there's no prerequisites. Um, I, my, um, the class does say four months and older, um, from beginners to novice or any team looking to bring a little bit more fun back, um, to obedience. And I have had some people take, um, this class because they felt they got a little too serious. Um, and they kind of, they want to do obedience, but they've always either been intimidated by it. Um, and it's just kind of a fun way to introduce the advanced skills, but by making games out of them. And, and it just, it's just, um, received very well. So it's, it's always, it's always fun to teach those classes. Yeah.

Um, so why you've talked about this a little bit already in your other answers, but I still want to ask, you know, why games, what is the advantage to, you know, this kind of approach to teaching something like obedience? Yeah. Um, we look at training as a game. I think we're, we're more, we're more motivated. Our dogs are more motivated to do the work. Um, I don't know what is that the old adage that says work is play, play is work. Right. Yeah. And so, um, you know, if we're able to keep it fun and then with a high rate of reinforcement, um, you know, we don't have to have a lot of precision. Um, we're just simply building a rapport with our dogs, simply building, you know, you know, and we hear that, um, right, Melissa, even just in general with, um, reinforcement based training, people say my dog won't leave me alone. Right. Oh my God, I can't even go to the bathroom. They won't leave me alone. You know, and, and it's, it's just, it's just along those, those same, those same lines. All right. So I kind of want to round out our whole chat, um, with kind of one final question. So if we were to, you know, drill all the stuff that we've been talking about down into, you know, either one takeaway or one key piece of information you really want listeners to kind of walk away from this interview with, um, what would that be? You know, that's always a hard question when we talk about multiple topics. Yeah. But, and I was like, I know I could probably give a couple answers. Um, but I, I would just say that, um, it's so important to develop good communication with your dog. Again, I talked about stimulus control, um, make sure your criteria is clear and that you are always consistent. You know, we can get and get very sloppy. Like, like the, you know, we have a lot of, um, evolution and dog training, you know, with reward and location specific markers. I, I, I think those are key in that when I say a certain word, it's either always going to be paid or it doesn't mean you're going to get paid or it's going to tell you where you can get reinforcement. I think that, that actually, you know, people promote that as just improving their sport, you know, just exponentially. But I would say it also helps with, with doing multiple sports. Um, and I would say your dog needs to enjoy what they're doing. You know, in the past we used to kind of, you know, force a dog into a sport cause there was only a few of them. And I think we all know now that people are enjoying the sports that their dogs enjoy cause there's so much more out there, right? Dog diving and, um, lower coursing and nose work and rally.

And I mean, just so much, you know, there's so much for you to pick from now. So why not pick what you and your dog enjoy? And, and then when I thought of this a little bit more, I was like, I treat every sport with the same quality of training. Like I do, like I, I'm, they have to have their arousal in check. They can't break a stay going into the herding arena. They can't, um, I don't know, you know, they, they, they just, they just have, I have the same expectations of them and I'm going to train that quality into every sport that I do. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, Julie. I think this was a, a, uh, information rich interview. So thank you. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. It's fun to actually, you know, talk it through. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We will be back next week with Simone Mueller to talk about predation substitution training. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. They're our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensons.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Be with us.