E402: 줄리 사이몬스(Julie Symons) - "환경적 회복력 구축하기"

So in all sports, we kind of think about teaching behaviors that we want to compete with, at least, that we want to hold up in competition to fluency kind of regardless of location, right? We want to generalize things a whole bunch. But it seems like nose work maybe comes with some unique challenges in that area. Do you want to talk about it a little bit? Yeah. And first, you know, nose work is often the sport that teens will gravitate toward to build confidence if they have some sensitivities. And it's often a sport that the dogs will enjoy because it's less structured. It's not very obedience-y. We have obedience to the handler. And you can, you know, feed them in the ring. Even at trials, you never have to wean off of food. You know, in the earlier stages, the dogs really thrive on this, being able to use their nose and participate in, you know, natural abilities and hunting and sniffing. And then once you start to have to go to novel places, because that's kind of the name of the game for trailing, you do have to build fluencies and a fluency to new environments with their skills. And the dogs may struggle with environmental distractions, people, and unfamiliar spaces. And sometimes the people, it's not just being worried about them, but they could be, you know, overly social and distracted by them. So pressures from the environment, tight spaces, new surfaces, you know, there's so many surfaces they have to work on for nose work, slippery floors, wood floors, rough surfaces, you know, gravel and things like that. And noise sensitivity and dog reactivity. So those are some of the ones that are some of the harder ones to manage and, you know, improve, you know, the comfortness of the dogs for those types of sensitivities with noise and reactivity. You know, the search areas, as I said already, can have some infinite possibilities. We may have to search on grass and dirt and gravel and all different types of tile and flooring, from ceramic to linoleum. And linoleum is usually pretty easy for the dogs. Wood floors, decks, gym lacquered floors. I remember what my previous dog, Savvy, one of her early, early trials, she did not want to walk on this gym floor and the search area was way at the back. And she, like, crawled on her belly, you know. And in hindsight, you know, should I have even, like, asked her to keep working? We actually did get our first full 100 score. It was, like, through that day. And she was a trooper. But that was just from, I think, resilience, right? We could talk about she was resilient, you know, to work through that situation.

But, you know, there's going to be, you know, we are searching and often training, because to get to new places, you're in public areas. Areas that are used by the public every day. So you have, you know, food left in the pavilions. And you're going to have critters and people showing up and dogs showing up out of your control. So that's what makes it a little difficult and challenging once you get to that level of training and trialing. So dogs with sensitivities and who lack the focus to stay on task can just clock out. And they're going to be on their own time because they are, you know, we can call them distractors or motivators. But they are more motivated by the environment, not necessarily worried about it. So it's like twofold. They're either overly aroused and distracted by the environment because they're interested in it, meaning in a good way. They want to chase the critter or, you know, eat bird poop or deer poop or whatever. Or they are just worried about this system, worried about it. So it's like it's two sides of the pendulum on what can take a dog off task. So that's the stuff that we have to, you know, work through with these types of dogs. Yeah. So I know, you know, as positive trainers, typically kind of the rule of thumb when teaching a new behavior is to begin in a well-known, non-distracting environment. I don't do nose work, but I assume the same is kind of true for nose work, right? So what kinds of behaviors, you know, can pop up in nose work training if we start introducing some of those harder environments too soon? Yeah, yeah, correct. We definitely apply all those same approaches with nose work. That's why learning at home is so ideal and why I love the online classes. So you can start at home. And I always say it's of all the sports to train, although I think many you can effectively train at home. But nose work is one of the easiest because for the first few weeks, you're not doing a whole lot. You know, you're just conditioning your dog to odor and developing some hunt skills. But it's so ideal for the more sensitive dogs or even the high arousal dogs that, you know, that have a lot of energy that look like they're able to conquer the world. But those extreme arousal dogs are also, you know, displaying concern about the environment and able to work in it. And if we move too fast, then with difficult setups, then our dogs are going to lose that focus. They're going to be over aroused. They're going to be over worried. All the things I just listed above. Sometimes a class environment just doesn't work for some dogs.

Recently, we had an offline field trip to a local school to search. We were able to get indoors. And a very high aroused dog that struggles in the class environment because we do, you know, crate them in an area or there's more people around. And it did phenomenal in this off-site area. It just was, you know, you know, one person and the dog, you know, me and the dog and the handler searching. And often those are classes. We'll have nearby dogs that might just get them aroused. And hopefully we don't have, people don't have classes with dogs and the handler standing out and watching the dog. And if the dogs are all social and fine and can work with that, that's fine. But a lot of times people can't go to those type of classes because there's just too much pressure. It's not even the dog reactivity or anything like that. But I remember one time, my Moxie, who I think my best nose work dog, honestly, and she's the one that has the noise sensitivities. I was at a seminar and I kept her in an unproductive area for too long because I know she'll cast out and move out. And she wasn't going to this other area. I didn't even realize to me that it was the literal probably 20 people that were in the seminar. Working teams and auditors were all cluttered and clumped in one area. And I just didn't even see it because I don't normally train with 20 people watching us. And she just did not like that pressure of the people. And so I had to remember that, you know. So those things are going to be concerning or we're stimulating for them. So those are things we have to work with. And so we just have to apply the same approaches with the sensitive dogs to let them acclimate and pick the areas more, you know, judiciously. Judiciously. Judiciously, yeah. Judiciously to search in, yeah. Yeah. So how do you decide kind of when to bridge that gap, right? How do you decide when you've got like a new dog that you're working through skills that it's time to take them to some new environments? And what are you looking at when you pick that new environment for the first time? Do you go like from one room of your home to another room of your home? Do you take it like outside? Like how do you think through that? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think, you know, we start in one room. And then it's funny because by the time I get to the lecture that says, okay, now use another room in your house. Everybody's already done that already, you know. Or they've even like done full house searches, you know. So and that's all fine. Sometimes I think people jump a little bit ahead.

But you're definitely going to, you know, you're going to work in other places in your house, like the garage or the backyard. I've had some people say that their dog is not allowed in like a certain room, you know, upstairs. And they did it when, you know, so-and-so was at home that doesn't want dogs up there. So the dogs did have like normal areas actually inside their house. The front yard can be very hard for dogs. A lot of more, you know, dogs are going to be protective of their house, their property. And I find that dogs will actually do better away from home if you're going to be working outside in a familiar, low-destructing place versus in your front yard. So I also recommend like going into a family member's house if your dog, you know, frequently goes to your mom's or your brother's house or even a familiar training building or places that you could work. And you always want to go back a few steps, you know, work on the skills they already know. Don't start something new, you know, in a new environment. And, you know, we always want to focus on creating these positive, you know, low-pressure experiences, gradually introducing the new challenges and celebrating the small victories so a dog feels secure and capable, just like you would do any training. Any training that you're going to take, you know, your weave poles out on the road or your obedience, you know, healing out on the road. The same things apply. I'll do things like in a new environment like that. I'll do like a tin toss with the odor in it because that will stimulate the dogs like prey drive. And that's a great, great one to start with. I start that a lot earlier now in the yard. I get dogs out on grass earlier and you can do that at a park and have a long line. And the dog is visually seeing it. So there's a visual component to it. And that's fun for them. I'll use airflow to boost the odor. You know, outside you could hopefully have some wind. If not, you could bring a fan. And then even like simple container searches that are so contextual to the dogs. And I like to use these switch boxes, these metal electrical switch boxes, because they're heavy. They're not going to be, you know, the dogs aren't going to have antics with them. There's an opening that the dog likes to put their nose in. They do. Dogs love to put their nose and stuff. And the odor is very accessible. And that's an easy way to do that. And actually, my current 120 class that's wrapping up, that's a lot of what people are doing offsite right now.

They're just bringing their six, you know, electrical boxes and setting it up in a parking lot, in a very quiet parking lot. And because that's going to give the dog an error-free experience. You know, also start routines. Having a dog understand, like with the cones out and your routine from the car to the search area. You know, I'm taking a controlled unleash class right now with Brona for agility specifically. But, you know, again, the same things apply. I'm really enjoying that class because I never really did unleash stuff. I mean, I've read about it. I've played around with it. But, you know, there's all that stuff from, you know, crate to ring or card or whatever to building. And that's just all the stuff that you want to, you know, have your dog understand. They love predictability. So dogs love predictability. And these are these kind of games, these pattern games, these routines, these start routines are all going to help these up for the dogs. So you talked a whole bunch kind of there about choosing a new location. Do you want to go back and just talk a little bit about how we know kind of when the dog is ready for that additional challenge? I definitely will start them, you know, a little early. So that you don't have them get too comfortable working in one place at one time. And so that's why I'm talking about you just to take that take an earlier show that they know and start that early. How would you know they're ready is, you know, you have to test them. You know, you have to pick a time to test their ability. And like I said, I like to try to get them, you know, within the first month or six week course. Right. We're trying to get to some novel areas. You know, you could definitely stay indoors for a while for dogs that are super distracted outside. Or if there's reactivity, you need to be in places with no dogs and things like that. But I think what dogs learn first, they learn best. And we need to always progress their skills. If you stay in like a comfort area, then it's just harder to progress and know that your dog is capable of stuff. So I guess it's more of a timetable for me. Of course, you have to look at the dog in front of you. But it's more of those things where I do push some of those advanced skills a little earlier, like getting outside, getting to new places. But I think you have to go when you have some other processes in place, you know, that you can help your dog if there's a problem. You know, that you have to be able to know what to do. Because I think a lot of times what happens is we get paralyzed. We don't know what to do.

We don't know what to do if a dog shows up or people show up. So to me, it's more like not as a dog ready, but are you as a team ready to handle situations? And I think you have to test it. And I say that would be within, you know, the first six weeks of learning. For dogs that really struggle with new and novel locations, are there, you know, approaches or options or techniques or what have you that kind of help build that resilience into the nose work dog? Can you talk us through kind of how you approach that? It can work and it takes some planning. You know, we need to first let them acclimate and do some non-nose work behaviors first. Just like with any training, we might have a ready-to-work protocol or even able-to-work protocol, right? Can your dog respond to simple no cues, hand touches, sit, spin? Will they take food? Will they take a toy? Whatever they're most likely to want. You know, all the great training approaches that we know and learn about generalizing and acclimating and being aware of our dog's, you know, emotional state with like a start button or ready-to-work type protocols. They all apply to nose work too. And so that's what you find with teams that come in that kind of already have that knowledge or have worked through it before with other sport or have just even done other sports. Kind of come a little bit more prepared for that type of situation. Because when it comes down to it, you know, to help these dogs, we want to provide clear and consistent expectations. You know, it's important for our dogs to, you know, understand what's required without adding stress and giving them the autonomy to work through tasks at their own pace. That'll foster their confidence and reduce any pressure they may feel. You know, things that can affect the dog negatively is overhandling. You know, I see that a lot. That adds pressure. Nagging the dog to work, constantly trying to get them to work by pointing and leading them. All that's going to do is, you know, shut them down and they're going to disengage. You know, it's never our proximity ourselves that I think cause that pressure. It's our with the pressure to work, right? Um, and, and I think we, we, uh, it's more about putting pressure on them to work when they can't. So we have to be able to see that they're not able to cope. They are way over threshold of what's going to trigger them or too concerned. Um, then we need to abort. And that's some of the stuff that, you know, I'll talk about in my new classes, you know, you know, embracing, you know, aborting a search, letting the dog opt out and things like that.

But we are, we rush the dogs. We want them to find all the hides and it just, it just affects their ability to learn. And so that's, um, so it's, it's, it's what we do as a handler, which is so important, um, to support our dogs and to not put them in situations where they're going to, to want to, you know, they're going to opt out. I'm not saying we would, we, we're going to put them in. And we can't avoid ever putting them in a position where they might need to opt out. And that's why we have to test that. And sometimes we just don't know what's going to, um, cause them to be worried. You know, we, it's, it's, it's, we just, you know, we wish we could talk to them, you know, so we always are having to observe that. Um, but, but that's how I would, um, so the initial, initial, um, of what I would, you know, what can cause a dog to be concerned and how they can build, build the resilience. Um, I know we're throwing around kind of the word resilience, but, um, can you just take a moment and kind of explain what a really resilient dog does look like in nose, nose, nose, kind of what's our end goal here? Yeah. When I use these words that are just like a regular word and, you know, our English language, I look it up in the dictionary, you know, cause it's a great word to use like endurance or, or whatever. And, um, you know, resilience means the capacity to withstand or to recover quickly from difficulties. Um, the ability to adapt and recover from, from life experiences and the ability to bounce back from challenges. So I like the kind of just saying that definition out there. Um, but it's having a dog that has a strong emotional response to the, to the start routine that they know we're doing nose work and they're pulling us into the search area. Um, being able to regulate their emotions, um, knowing what's a threat and what's not a threat. Um, being able to focus on what they can control. Right. You know, there's going to be always something that our dog is like, I can't, I can't control that. I can't handle it. But most things they can go, Oh yeah, I can, I can handle that. Um, having strong problem skills and being able to respond to the challenges. Um, and then having a partnership with, with us to know that we will support them, you know? And I think that's, that's a huge thing too, is, um, especially for sensitive dogs, they need to know we have their back. We're not going to push them. We're going to let them opt out of, of any situation that they can't handle.

And, um, and we can, we can help them thrive in these environments by having a plan and being prepared, you know, when things don't go as expected. Are there, I know we talked quite a bit about, um, kind of different environmental challenges that they might face, but are there specific pieces in there that you intentionally kind of look for and make sure you've incorporated into your training plan before you get to the point where your dog is trialing to ensure that your dog is going to be able to be confident in a trial? Yeah. Yeah. You know, we have to definitely understand the balance between the support and, and, and pressure. Cause that's so important for effective training because there's always going to be a little bit of pressure, right? I mean, it's pressure for us when we compete too. Um, so of course, low distracting at first, we need to keep the dog at a threshold, um, of any triggers that may happen and be ready to abort, start over. A lot of times we just start over the dogs aren't focused. They're distracted. Let's take a break. Maybe you take them on a little short walk. Um, something that I do. Um, and I, and I fought it for a while. This is one of the things that I've changed. You know, I, I, I might be due to another blog on things that I've, I don't do anymore. Cause I think that's so interesting. I think that's so interesting. Right. Because, um, I think, you know, we all are like, no, I had a really good idea. I don't want to admit that idea wasn't good anymore, but, but, um, it's letting the dog acclimate in your search area first. Not doing nose or letting them walk around. Hopefully they don't pee or anything. Let them acclimate in the search area first until they're bored. You know, Denise Fensi, I still remember her videos, her, um, videos in her class on, um, I forget the name of the class, but she would just sit there and tell the dogs were finally so bored that they would go engage. Right. Engagement. I think it was an engagement class. Engagement class. Yeah. So you, you, you kind of wait, get your dog so bored with this area that they're ready to do something. And then you put them away, you set a hi and you come out there and, and you do the search. And that's been a process I've used with some teams. People and dogs just show up. So you're, you're going to have to realize to abort. And I, and I'm really liking that, um, more and more. Um, but I also do that with too sensitive or distracted, not like, not on task.

If they're, if they're not on task because they're more interested in critters or whatever, then I'm more willing to have a consequence for the dog. I stopped, I stopped the search. I'm not going to chain in these behaviors. I'm just, you know, sniffing the carpet, um, you know, trying to get the critter or just, you know, looking around. But you have to be really aware of if that's displacement and concern versus just a dog who's, you know, fine in the environment. They just would rather go do something else. So, um, but I'm finding that, but in any case though, you just have, you might have to be, you should be neutral in either case. But I find even dogs that are maybe displacing behavior. If you just say, Oh, sorry, we're done. We're going to take a little break. And then you start them again. They are like on fire, you know, so it really works in both cases. Um, so I'll often go to like, um, on Sundays, I usually used when I'm really taking a new dog, I'll go out on Sundays when stores are closed. Um, you know, work in some storefronts or just, you know, some areas that there's not going to be people. And then once you're getting ready to trial, you of course have to expand your areas to different types of locations. Um, the trouble is we just can't always control public areas and it's tricky to find the right places. So, so never go to pet stores. That's a big no, no. Um, I've used a lot of like our, we have farm stores like, um, country max and tractor supply. And, um, even in the outside areas, you know, there's, those are a little bit more secluded. You can work outside on their like carts for sale and, um, or a quiet time in the store to go in there. Cause they allow dogs in there. And I actually did one of my, um, controlled unleash homework in there, um, a couple weeks ago. And, uh, but I, you know, some of the home Depot stores, you know, I always check with them, let them know I'm bringing the dog in. And, um, those are some good places, but they're going to be scary if your dog is afraid of noise and flooring and stuff. But sometimes I just go in there and I like walk them around, but that's, you know, that's a whole, like prior to, you know, getting ready for a noser trial, you've already taken them into places without doing nose work. Right. When I got the puppy, where did she go to me? She went to my home Depot trips and stuff. Right. So you have to pick the locations based on your, your dog's ability to handle, but you're going to have to test that. Right. And you have to test it smartly.

You have to have, have, be willing to let it go and then walk away and go home, you know, and this is not going to work that day. Um, I remember one team and I, I, it was, it had to probably been almost 10 years ago or nine years ago. They were on a trip and they would stop at rest stops along the way and they would just pop out on the rest stop and they just do, um, this, it's your choice game that we do. You put the odor in one hand for the other game. And that's all they did. I mean, maybe they did more, but that's what they showed. It was like, you don't have time. You just stop enough to go to the bathroom or whatever, but I'm going to get my dog out. And you're conditioned on the odor. You're making a good, um, emotional response to the game and they're working in a very busy place. But all you're doing is this very, you know, simple game that you started in the first few weeks of Noseberg. So that stuff like that, that, you know, is, is, is great to be doing along the way. Um, so yeah, that, that's it. But you do have to, you know, gradually get into these spaces, but you just have to do it with some intelligence. And, um, I, I would, I would never say don't acclimate first. You know, I used to say, no, no, no, you have to have them test in all the location. But, um, you know, I, I, there's nothing wrong with letting a dog walk around an area first. Um, and then, then, then you're going to have to test that where they don't always get to acclimate. And I think that naturally occurs with classes and stuff like that. That does, that sometimes that naturally does occur where you might go to matches and things like that. But, so you are offering a class on all this stuff, um, rise above resilience in scent work environments in the April term. Do you want to talk a little more about kind of what the class would be focused on and, uh, who might want to join you? Excited about this class, but it's also a difficult topic to cover because building, you know, confidence and motivation and resilience is, it's not always easy. Um, you know, even for some dogs who have a high food value, they don't always have the motivation to find the thing to earn the reward. And I've thought about this a lot. You know, I'm like, I've taught, you know, thousands of teams. I did kind of count that out. It was definitely as thousands versus hundreds. Um, and we follow, you know, we follow the same steps and, um, we follow the same approaches and, um, the dogs are able or enjoying this, you know, they love, they love to sniff. They're getting treats.

We can, we have motive motivators on us, reinforcement on us for them. So why do some dogs seem less motivated, even though they clearly value their reward? Right. So, you know, of course it comes down to like genetics, you know, breed, um, predisposition and environmental factors that have shaped their behavior over their months and years, um, in the world. Um, so I, what I've been doing is I've been looking into the role of dopamine, which is a lot of people are talking about now, um, which plays a key role in, you know, voluntary movement, memory and reward seeking behaviors. It's so interesting about that. Cause something that I read, um, there's so much on there. It's just a simple Google search, but they actually said that this, you know, uh, dopamine. Um, dopamine actually transfers value to an activity that, you know, transfers a value of the reward to the activity. And that's exactly what I've been like. Why do some dogs not transfer that, you know? Um, so I was, um, so I'm going to cover that. Um, I'm also going to cover building stronger cognitive development, problem solving skills. I was thinking how my dog understands concepts and a lot of other dogs do. Right. But I'm, I think about how I've trained my dogs and other dogs I've worked with that, um, are more resilient. Perhaps, um, we have reward procedures that they understand, you know, rewards specific markers. They, they know how to wait their turn. I've taught calmness, you know, the map behavior, they have impulse control. Um, they have duration skills. Um, and a lot of these were learned through some shaping stuff, right? So it's going to, that's their critical thinking and, and problem solving. Um, they understand cause and effect. They understand cause and effect of offering behaviors and they can problem solve. Um, and as, as teammates, we need to establish a process to handle situations and help them cope like pattern games and redirection and, and things to, to that they understand before something happens. Um, I'm doing something kind of exciting and a little bit in preparation for this class. I've, um, set up, um, some, I said, we did a first workshop and I had some friends help me on these movement puzzles and, um, doing, so I took art, these, some of those were dogs were doing some movement puzzles and which is, which is using patterns, predictable patterns and, um, some shaping stuff. And, and, you know, a lot of these people have never shaped their dog to do a front foot target, you know, which all of us would do if we're teaching, you know, just any, any other sport, right.

Um, or, you know, going through a tunnel if they never did agility or things like that. And it was really well received. We're doing a followup, um, I think before or during the beginning of the class. Um, so that's, that's giving me more information, um, working with some other dogs on that. So I'm, I'm pretty excited about that, but that's some of the stuff that, um, I'm going to be covering. And my goal is that those are dogs who might be their only sport. And I think that that's usually what I see. It's a dog that doesn't do any other sports. And so they aren't cross trained and some of these other learning, you know, opportunities. So they don't have these concepts. They don't have these training concepts. And that's a thing. I actually, I didn't, you know, honestly, I, I, I just know that my dogs understand concepts and there's a thing called, you know, concept training. And, um, you know, they just, they don't actually have the ability to respond and recover and they don't have the established communication structures that we might have with some of the other training. Um, I want them to know that they can opt out of training. And that's just something that it's more of a handler having to respect that and accept that. And they'll learn that. And no, we all learn that, right. And that if a dog can opt out, they're more likely to opt in. That's kind of a cool way to think of that. And, um, and just having the communication, uh, due to the routines that we develop and nurture, you know, from start line and things like that are just things that I think not all, you know, teams have a, have a history with. And so that's, I want to bring like, I'm like, you know, a day in the life of Julie or a year in the life of Julie training a new dog, you know, like, like, like, of course, you know, my dogs, I know are more predisposed, um, for this, this sport hunting, you know, I, I, I pick dogs from, um, parents that have, you know, testability and performance. So, um, but I, I just am excited about exposing some of these teams and seeing if this really can happen. And I know, um, I always shared the story, um, back when Drac, Dracula, my mom, while I was young, I went to a Kamal Fernandez seminar and, um, you know, I didn't really realize in the time, all the importance of it, but, um, we determined I was struggling, you know, that I had trained Drac, learned helplessness. He really couldn't problem solve that something was, or wasn't a threat. And, you know, most things are not a threat. Things weren't a threat to him. And, um, Kamal gave me some things to do.

And it was mainly just shaping, teaching him to put two feet in a box, you know, do four feet on two different platforms. And, and I really worked hard on that. And I sent him my little homework and he was really impressed and really worked on that. And I realized that was just helping him out. Like whenever he was struggling, I would throw a cookie and helping him out. And then a year later, um, I saw him and some other people that are at the seminar and they were like, he was a completely different dog. Like he never took his eyes off of me. He was able to work with, you know, four of the dogs on the floor. And, um, you know, I just kind of realized more recently that like, that is what made him, you know, improve and progress and, and build stronger, uh, real resilience. Like I, you know, I didn't even put that word to it back then. So, um, so that was kind of exciting about that. Um, but I think I was in that newer stage of like throwing cookies all the time, you know, learning all these new ways of training. And I just didn't even realize I wasn't letting the dog, you know, figure stuff out. Um, so, uh, that's what I, I'm hoping to see that, you know, not just looking at a dopamine effect, um, or, you know, just the boarding searches, but just so, so the class was kind of excited about, I'm still working on the syllabus. I do have the description up. Um, but I'm going to, we're not going to do like every week is like maybe one nose work thing, but you know, two non-nose work things or something like that. Right. About working on, um, tasks to build their problem solving ability, um, you know, um, and things like that, that they could transfer to nose work. Um, it's just, just to give them those, those skills and those coping mechanisms. I'm pretty excited about it. I'm going to be very busy this month, um, getting all that ready. And, um, so I was thinking about a lot of people have noticed, you know, asked me about the class and I, I, I, it's, I really, it's an odd, it's a very specific audience. I think, I think people can audit it and, and they'd get a lot out of it if they didn't have, you know, a, a, a, a, definitely a sensitive dog, but we all have dogs who are distracted by something in the environment. Right. So that's pretty a common thing that we're going to work on across the board. But this, um, class would be really good for teams who struggle during a search. Um, like when the, if the dog just keeps shifting focus to the handler, I get that a lot. The dog just keeps checking in the handler.

Now that's probably in turn to some handling issues that we're going to talk about too. Handling could be a big part of, like I said earlier about we're putting pressure on our dogs. We're helping them. We're helping them too much. Um, dogs who are appeasing their handler and they're, they're jumping on them and fawning on them. That's the dog who's not comfortable dogs that are reluctant to enter spaces, you know, um, a dog who's maybe searching fine, but I'm not going down that dark hallway. Um, dogs who freeze obviously is a very, you know, dogs who maybe just freeze or disengaged from tasks. Um, and then displacement behaviors, you know, the scratching, the grooming, the barking. Um, I've got dogs that do all that and still search really, really well. So, you know, some of those behaviors could just have been chained in from past history. And not necessarily affecting, you know, your nose work experience and trialing. But those are some of the things that you can see. Um, I, I, somebody said fake sneezing. I'm not sure if I've seen that as much, but somebody had mentioned fake sneezing. And then you also have dogs who just false, like completely out of nowhere, just falsing because they're either unclear their tasks, but most likely they just want to get out of it because they've learned, Oh, if I just do what they want, they must want me to do this. So I'm just going to false and then they'll get cookies and then they'll get the hell out of there. You know, and so that's, you know, so it's, it's truly meant for teams that are struggling in novel locations. Um, but I, uh, but I know that, you know, the, the larger audience would, um, benefits from the material, you know, in an auditing or, or, or solar, uh, capacity. Awesome. Any, uh, final thoughts or maybe key points you kind of want to leave folks with? Yeah. Um, we do get that experience and this practice and this, you know, adding more resilience. Um, and we try to do all the right things, right. It's so rewarding to see these dogs or your own dog thrive in a novel location. There's this one team who lacks some confidence, um, in class, but if we go to a novel place, the dog is so excited, he does much better, like in a novel place. Interesting. He, yeah. And it's also when a new dog like joins the class, like, like somebody is like subbing in the dog is like, he is like, it's, it's like, we noticed this kind of more recently, like he gets like really, uh, kind of a little over roused barking and stuff, but then he actually searches with a little bit more intensity.

Um, but they, they, but it just, he just really, he likes the, the, the exploring new areas. You know, I definitely see dogs who like get a little bored with doing the same thing. So I think that's an example of that. Another team, um, has been learning from so many other experts on their dogs reactivity. Um, they've helped me a lot to learn. Um, and, uh, they have had so many positives in their recent trials, um, that they're just, they're just thrilled, right. They're just, they're on, they know they're on the right path. They're just so excited about, but they've done, um, I mean, all the work, you know, they've, they've done the work, um, with other instructors and, and, um, and a little bit with me. And then another student that is probably the poster child, uh, poster dog for this cause, you know, a dog who's barely reactive. Um, none of their litter mates, you know, survived this life. Um, but this handler is, is, is excellent and did nose work and it, an increased quality of the dog's life. I would have never known it was as reactive as, as she says, because, you know, I'm not seeing all that part of its life, but when it's doing nose work, it was so happy and it enriched his life so fully and he's still doing well. And, um, uh, she didn't trial a whole lot. Um, but she did, um, his life was so enriched and that, that, that improved his wellbeing. Um, and it's just such a, such a great, you know, story there. And, um, just one of the, one of the, one of the most talented dogs I know, um, even though you don't have the trial, you know, credentials on that. Um, but you just see how powerful nose work and using the dog's nose and giving them autonomy. And it just, you know, there's so much research about the therapeutical therapeutic benefits of nose work, but it's, it's a, we know if we can, and sometimes some of these dogs might not be able to trial, you know, I'm going to say that right now, like some dogs may just, just get the enrichment more out of it, which is gosh, you know, wouldn't we all love that regardless, right? They don't need to trial. And then when we have online programs, we hear at FENZ and, and there's so many avenues and some dogs who thought they would never trial are trialing, you know? So that's just, that's just the, you know, potential, you know, results of all of this. Um, and, and, and two more things. Um, something that when I, when this class came about from, um, a webinar we did for the nose work conference and, um, we were thinking about type of topics and somebody mentioned

sensitivity and it still gave me like great heartache, uh, heartburn or whatever to like, it's tough topic. It's such a tough topic because I, you know, I'm not trying to work on that, you know, severe cases. Um, but my TA for the, for the course, Sarah Wright, uh, um, reframed the view on sensitive dogs in that it's not a limitation. Don't think of sensitivity as a limitation. We should view our dog sensitivity as an asset. It highlights the need for thoughtful training and creates opportunities to strengthen our partnership with them through these trust building exercises. And I just, I just loved her reframing of it, right? That we should, we should embrace it. We should value it. It, it, um, they just need more thoughtful training. Um, and I think we, that's the opposite of us just trying to maybe push too fast with something. And I know many teams feel frustration and I get it. We get it, right? They do feel really frustrated. Um, but it is truly training the dog in front of us and it, and, and it is making us all a better, all better trainers, you know, to come up with solutions and improvements to, um, you know, make them feel better. So, and then, uh, and then there was no way that I could ever cover this topic without my students learning from them, learning from their handlers that do exceptional work with them. Cause they're the ones living with them every day and colleagues of mine, you know, that I work with and learn from. Um, um, like I said, early besides some late onset sensitivity with one of my dogs and some floor issues with another, um, my dogs do are predisposed to, you know, do well in this type of a sport. Um, so I'm continuing to learn and help and I want to help my students and to equip them with better tools and processes for building resilience. And this is, this is why I'm like, I do these weekly classes. Those are classes, but you know, there's, there's more I could be doing as more I could be doing. Always, always. And I, I, and I'm just like, you know what? They don't need me to set heights for them today. They need me to, they, we all need to, um, let's build, let's have them problem solve something different, something new. Let's, let's build resilience in other ways that'll then transfer to those. I like it, Julie. Good stuff. Good. Good. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Don't miss it. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fensi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fensi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Body. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Music. Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be Be