아만다 넬슨 인터뷰 - "어질리티의 원거리 및 자신감 가르치기"

So I'm working on earning that with her this year as well as taking her to the NAIDAC Championships. And then Al-On-V, again, I'm a bit of a nerd. So Al-On-V is from Doctor Who. That's where her name comes from. I call her Allie for short. She's four years old this year, and her main goal, or my main goal, I guess, with her, is prepping her for the NAIDAC Championships. It'll be her first year competing there, and I want to take her. And I'm not focused on winning as much as I just really wanted to go and kind of experience the atmosphere of it and have a good time. So I'm doing a lot of prep work with her and bigger agility trials, the way I'm used to, you know, kind of atmosphere of all the dogs and all the people and all that sort of stuff. And then just working on her skills that she'll need, you know, for the championships themselves. Now, are they Border Collies? Are they Shelties? Yes. Yes. All three are all Border Collies, yes. Okay. Border Collie household for sure, huh? That's right. So how did you get started in dog sports? What was kind of the beginning for you? I've actually been involved in dog stuff at dog sports since I was extremely young. I actually did obedience with my Cocker Spaniel when I was, I think, maybe like four or five years old. My mom was very much into obedience at that time, and then she later, you know, was very much into agility. So I kind of grew up with it. So I started, like I said, with my Cocker and obedience, and then agility kind of really started taking off, and, you know, it was a lot of fun. So I had a Corkie also named Sunny, and I started with her in agility. We did yesterday. I competed in the UFC Nationals many times with her. And I think I started doing agility when I was like six or seven. I don't remember a lot of it, but there's pictures to prove it. So I can only remember bits and pieces every now and then. So you definitely grew up in this world, so to speak. That is right. That is right. What kind of Cocker was it? English Cocker? American Cocker? American Cocker. Okay, okay. My grandmother breeds English Cockers, so I've always kind of followed Cocker Spaniels. They have a special spot in my heart, so. Oh, that's very cool. Very cool. So starting off in obedience, a while ago, have you always been a positive trainer? If not, kind of what got you started down that path? So at heart, I know I've always been a positive trainer. I'm pretty sure I took some detuners down the road every now and then. You know, as I learned, you know, I try to surround myself with people who are also positive trainers.

But I would have to say that I really, you know, because I started so young, you know, you kind of do as everybody else is doing sort of thing. When I really wanted to start training my own dog, I had a butterfly before Tri. Her name was Chance. I did agility with her. You know, but I don't remember really training her, if that makes sense, because I was young. Tri was my first dog that, like, I really, I had her from when you were eating a puppy. And she was really, you know, I trained her, I guess, as odd as it sounds. Obviously, my mom helped me when, you know, my dog when I was younger. And so Tri, I felt like, was my first, I'm going to train her, train her, you know. And so I just went in to, I want to read all these books. And I had this cute little eight-week-old puppy. And she was, she really, really loved clickers and shaping. And I really started getting into it because she loved it so much that she just thought that that was the coolest thing in the whole wide world. So then that really shoved me into the positive world where I was just, wanted to immerse myself in everything. And so any book I could get my hands on, YouTube videos, anything I could do, you know, to learn more for her, I guess. You know, and really, I wanted her to be so happy. And that kind of, then I started bringing it into agility. You know, she didn't really, at that point in time, the way I was teaching the weave poles, like it didn't, it didn't work for her. Like she didn't kind of get it. And I'm like, well, you know, I don't, I don't understand why we're not getting it. So I started doing all the shaping with the weave poles and then, you know, all this targeting and stuff like that. And I'm like, oh my gosh, she really likes this, you know. So I started to see what else could I do in agility that I could shape. And that really opened, opened a lot of doors. And it also opened my eyes to that also like a lot of the distance work that I do. So shaping is a huge part of it now because it really brings it into the dog's realm that they can, they're learning, you know, it's not kind of a forced thing. And I don't say that in a negative way, like, you know, I'm dragging the dogs out there, forcing them. But more of the dogs are making that choice. I don't know if that makes any sense, but they're making that choice. They're being shaped and going, okay, I'm going to go out here and do this. And, you know, my man really likes that. So I get a click, you know, that sort of thing.

And she really, really opened the door for that, that she, she was the kind of dog that, you know, any, any sort of correction, even just me kind of going, oh, you know, and I can't help it sometimes, you know, something would happen. I go, oh, she would really take it to heart. So I really learned that, you know, she, she liked all that positives. And it really changed the way I look at things and the way that I would look at how I could keep something. As someone who hasn't really done much in the agility world, I definitely, like, did a little bit of research before we got on the call. And it seemed like you compete pretty heavily in NADAC. Did I pronounce that right? NADAC? Yes, you did. And so would you mind talking a little bit about how that differs from some of the other agility organizations out there and maybe why it appeals to you so much? So a lot of focus within NADAC is it's flying courses that test the dog's ability to collect and extend. So, for example, it might be a really kind of open, wide sequence that then comes into a really tight serpentine or pinwheel and then goes back into this really fast extended sequence. So NADAC really focuses on testing the dog's ability to, you know, really extend, really stride out and then collect in for this nice tight sequence and then really extend out again. And it tests the handler's ability to read those sequences, to read, okay, I need my dog to really extend and go fast, you know, to this loop here. And then I really need them to collect, collect, collect, and do this really technical sequence here. And now I want them to extend again. You know, so I like the variety as far as, you know, it has, there's definitely dog tests, I guess, on the course as far as, you know, testing the dog's ability to do that kind of collection extension. And then it tests the handler's ability to know the dog, know what the dog needs, and to read, you know, those sequences. And NADAC also, you know, puts, has some focus in distance handling, and they have awards that, you know, aim at the distance handling. And that's something that, you know, I've done for a long time, and I really, again, would try. She loved doing that distance work, so NADAC also was a big part of that. And, you know, I could do a lot of that, you know, big distance stuff that she really liked, and we like doing together as a team. So I like the, I like the variety with NADAC that I can go out, and I can run right with my dog, and, you know, be with her, and do that sort of thing.

And then the next course I look at and go, ooh, I'm going to try a distance on this one, and I can now work on distance skills, you know, all at the same trial. So I really like that variety within NADAC that I can do different things with my dog, you know, whether it's distance or running with them, and looking at the course for those collection extension sequences and all that sort of fun stuff. Just having watched some, you know, distance handling type stuff, it's just so cool when you see somebody who, you know, they can send the dog out, and they have, you know, good control, and the dog's doing the things in the right order. And you have that distance, it's just, it's really an impressive skill to watch. It's really pretty to watch. And I know that one of your specialties at FDSA is teaching distance. So I wanted to ask a little bit about the kind of skills that a team needs, I guess, partly as a team, right, but also just, like, what skills the dog needs before they can start to introduce distance into their training, and before they can really, what they need to kind of be successful with that, right? I imagine it needs some special skills. Yeah, so there's many other ways to teach distance, and the way that I do it is my whole philosophy with distance handling is it has a very unique skill in the fact that you're asking the dog to kind of move away from you, and that can be moving out of their comfort zone. And so confidence plays a humongous part in everything I do with my dogs, which kind of goes back into all that shaping and clicker training stuff that I do, is that I want my dogs to be super, super confident. And I want them to, you know, be confident in my handling, confident in their skills, you know, they know how to do a dog, they know how to do a jump, all that sort of stuff. So, you know, when I start working with, you know, a new handler, or, you know, a new dog, or even, you know, someone who's been competing, but they want to start at a reducing distance, the first thing that we sit down and do is like, okay, now let's see, where is your dog at, and what does their confidence look like? You know, are they, you know, are they, okay, five feet away, 10 feet away, you know, where's, where's their limit? And if, say, their limit is at 10 feet, and the handler really wants them to be 15 feet away, we're going to build the dog's confidence at that 10 feet. And my biggest thing is, because of that confidence, I want my dogs to trust my handling, I want them to be confident in my handling.

So, for example, if I tell my dogs out, you know, and I want them to, out means for them to, you know, move out away from me. So, I tell them out, and so they understand that. And let's say I'm at a trial, and I've forgotten where the course goes, so I've set out, but not in reality. I actually need them, you know, to come in towards me, and I'm like, oh, no, you know, I've given them a round cue. So, my reaction, and almost our reaction, the same reaction happens for every handler, is, you know, we're trying to save that cue. And so, we'll go, no, no, no, no, no, come in, come in, come in, you know, and we'll try to save it and get the dogs in. And dogs are forgiving, and dogs are awesome. So, they'll just turn on a dime and come in. But what happens with that is then the dogs don't trust their handling anymore. You know, we've set out, they're going out, but now, in our heads, we're telling ourselves, oh, I screwed up, I screwed up, I needed to say come in. But in the dogs head, they're viewing it as, well, she set out, I went out, and now she's saying, no, no, no, come in. And so, that's what kind of chips away at that trust. So, the first thing I'm really, really getting to with all my students is, if you've given a wrong cue, sometimes you just have to suck it up and go, you know. And know that you've just lost that run, but you're going to gain 10 more down the road. Because if the dog doesn't have confidence in our cues, then when we do need that distance and we tell our dog out, I never want my dog to kind of look back at me and go, are you sure? Like, I just want them, when I say out, they go, yep, all right, here we go, she means it, you know, and off we go. So, that's a big thing. I do lots of, you know, groundwork. I use road cones and teach my dogs a lot of confidence work around, you know, just the road cones because it's a nice, easy groundwork exercise. And it also teaches me, you know, myself and all my students the timing that they need for all their cues. You know, I teach them the speed the dogs are going to run. And it's all done without equipment so that we're not also working toward, you know, dog knocks a bar and it's like, oh, no, no, we have to, you know, fix that. We can just focus on getting our dogs to move out away from us and build that confidence. That's basically my training philosophy is everything that revolves around confidence. No, I mean, that makes total sense because especially when, you know, speed is also important and obviously agility, speed is important.

Getting a dog to move away from you and not doubt, if they doubt you, they're going to move slower than if they believe that they're doing the right thing. And so even if the dog did come in, right, like you might have shaved some seconds the wrong direction. Exactly. Exactly. Your next run. So even though I haven't done agility, I do tri-ball and that's also kind of a distance sport. And I know that for me, when I was training distance, reward placement was just so important to kind of get that confidence and get the dog to understand, you know, to stay out there and not come back in for a treat. So I'd assume it was a big part for you for training agility too. Do you want to speak to that a little bit and talk about, I mean, you can totally correct me if I'm wrong too. I mean, you know, kind of guessing a little bit. No, no. Reward placement is huge, huge, huge, huge. Which is why, you know, I love using toys when it comes to distance work. And, you know, they're super easy. You'll be able to, you know, toss that toy out there. Reward it at distance. You know, either hand or tossing or, you know, a dead toy placed out or something like that. You know, you have dogs who maybe aren't a big fan of toys. They only want food, which Allie absolutely hates toys. She has zero interest in them, but she loves food. So for her, yeah, you know, reward can be a little bit difficult with her because, you know, my other dogs, you know, they love going after the toy. So it makes it, you know, quote unquote, a little bit easier. But with Allie, I use those lotus balls, you know, that Velcro kind of open. You can put food in. So I use those as something I'll be able to, you know, she does a really nice distance sequence. I can either have it placed out there for her out away from me where she can then open it up and get her treat. Or a lot of times I just always carry one on me. So she does something really awesome out there at a distance. I can just toss that toy and reward, you know, right there. I also have students that, you know, the lotus ball just, it does not work for them. Either the handlers don't really like tossing it. Maybe the dogs don't like it, that sort of thing. So even tossing food, you know, is good. I still vary my rewards because a lot of times we, at least with some of my students, they get so focused on, you know, all this distance and distance and distance. And so they reward, you know, all this distance out of way, out of way, out of way, which is great. But there are some courses where the dog has to come in.

And so sometimes we get a little bit stuck on, oh my gosh, I really want my dog out there. And the dog gets used to always being, you know, say 10, 15 feet away from the handler. But then when we go to a sequence where they need to be, say, five feet within the handler, the dogs don't want to come in. So I still do kind of vary my rewards in that sometimes, you know, they will come in to me for a treat. And so that we're still kind of keeping a nice balance between my dog going really far out and staying out of way from me or coming in. But I would say I definitely reward out of way a lot more than I do, you know, up next to me. Because I want them, again, if I'll back that confidence, I want my dogs to feel confident in hiring a reinforcement, you know, way out there, away from me as well. You know, some dogs really struggle with distance and building that confidence to go out there. I have seen that, you know, in my own sport. And I think it's kind of neat that reward placement really can make a huge difference in just communicating and building that confidence. So I wanted to ask if there was a particular aspect of distance training or really, you know, kind of anything in what you do that people usually struggle with. And if you kind of walk us through a little bit how you might problem solve that or, you know, some of the solutions you might try out. Just kind of give people a sense of what you teach and how you teach it. Is there anything that jumps out at you? Yeah. So, for me, I would say across the board, the biggest aspect that I see with almost all handlers when they really want to get into distance is they want to stop all movements. They get nervous, you know, especially if there's a gambler's line on the ground or a champ's line or something like that. And they see that line and we just stop dead. And so a lot of the way I handle and the way I teach is all based on my body. And so my lower body, my feet, that's what creates impulsion. So even, you know, in my videos, I use them a lot because people say, oh, well, you tell us we always have to keep moving, but your videos, you're not. But I am. It just, it has to be, even if it's a small amount of movement, even if it's just kind of one step, one step, it's still, you're still creating movement. And dogs, if they see us just kind of come to that brick wall, you know, we stop right at that line. Well, that's cueing a collection. You're telling them to stop. And so what I try to tell my students all the time is if you want your dog's feet to move, your feet need to move. It doesn't mean you have to race them.

It doesn't mean you have to run. And even the smallest step, that motion is going to help them, you know, continue to move and continue to push out there. So, again, back to the road comes. I do tons of work with footwork for the handlers and teaching them, you know, I want you to practice this distance, but you need to always kind of be moving a little bit. You know, always be creating a little bit of motion in your lower body so your dog will continue to read that. And I do a lot of work, you know, laying lines on the ground and teaching handlers not to be scared of them. They don't have to just stop right at them. You know, and even, you know, staying off that line just by a foot, it gives you that little bit of cushion that, you know, you can still kind of push your dog out there. And they get a little bit of movement. And I would say that, that to me is the biggest aspect because dogs naturally read our body language. You know, you take a little angry little puppy and you start to walk, you know, they're going to walk with you. You stop, they stop. You know, they naturally will read it. Whereas we can teach distance with just a verbal cue, you know, and teach the dogs to get out there. I know many distance handlers that don't use a lot of body language. It's all verbal and they do extremely well, but it's a taught skill. It's not natural to the dog. And I like to do as much natural stuff as I can for the dog so that it makes things easier. And I think for both of us as a team, it just kind of makes things easier. I don't have to kind of teach something that is harder for both me and the dog, you know, to teach them, okay, I'm standing perfectly still, but I want you to drive out, you know, 30 feet. And it's harder on the dog. And it goes, again, back to that confidence. It's harder to build that confidence when the dog doesn't feel that level of support from the handlers. So I would say that's the hardest thing that I've run across with handlers. And it's just a matter of just muscle memory. You know, teach them that you really, it's okay. You can keep moving those feet. You'll be okay. The line is not going to bite you, I swear. So I mentioned in the bio, and I mean, you talked about it a little bit there in that last answer, that you have your cues for cues handling system. And I want to make sure we talk about that a little bit more. You kind of mentioned the idea of kind of adapting to what the dog does naturally and building on that. But can you explain the concept a little bit more and maybe touch on how the system can allow a team

to really create their own unique handling system? I kind of break things down into I have lower body cues, upper body cues, and then my verbal cues. So my lower body cues, that should be basically my primary cue. That should be the first thing my dog sees. So I always want to point my feet or point my foot. You know, if you're running, you're going to be able to point both feet at the same time. But where do you want your dog to go? So that's going to be kind of their first cue. Your foot is pointing at that jump you want them to take. And then your upper body is going to define that cue. You know, do you want them to really continue to push? Are you going to have your arm out because you're really driving them down that line? Or is your arm closer to your body because we're going to collect after that jump? You know, so your upper body is kind of defining what your lower body is doing. And then your verbal cue should be kind of backing that whole thing up. So the picture that I would want to see is if I have a student who they need to do an out tunnel is that their foot should be pointing at the tunnel, the hand should be pointing at the tunnel, and then their verbal cue should be backing all that up by saying, you know, out or whatever cue, you know, the student uses. Where I go from there is that I don't feel that every dog can be handled the same way. You know, I've had multiple dogs and, you know, work with multiple students' dogs and run students' dogs that, you know, every dog is unique, every dog is different, and not everything is going to be exactly the same. You know, like I said, I have a lot of border collies, and every single one of them is different. I handle every single one of them different. You know, they don't all just kind of come out of a cookie cutter that just because they're a border collie, this is the way I'm going to handle them. You know, they're all very, very different. So I can adapt this handling system into something that works for each dog. So, for example, Tripp that my boyfriend runs, he is much more dependent on Jimmy's upper body than he is his feet. And he was trained, you know, all my dogs go through the same foundation training as every other, you know, one before them and one after. And Tripp and Allie, the two youngest there, they were trained exactly the same way. But for some reason, Tripp just, he responds better to upper body. So we just adapt the handling a little bit into, okay, instead of, you know, Jimmy's foot is now pointing where I want to go, we really focus on his upper body. You know, his arm really needs to be pointing.

This is the jump we're going to take. And then his feet are kind of then become more of a defining cue and then I verbal, if that makes sense. So it just kind of swaps the order. Where I am now, Allie, Allie 100% reads off my lower body. You know, and then, you know, the upper body is her defining cue. And what she does not like, maybe it's just a phase she's going through. It's a teenager phase. She does not like to hear me talk. So verbal cues are just a no-go for her. Every time I say something to her, you know, like go or something like that, she barks and she gets a little angry. I feel like we're having a teenager stage of, you know, don't tell me what to do. So for her, I use very little verbal cues and she reads my lower body like there's no tomorrow. You know, she'll pick up that foot cue and she just goes with it. So I just kind of, we just mold and adapt things within that. You know, I have my students kind of follow the base of it. You know, here's, you know, most dogs are going to read your foot and use your arm and your verbal. But I let my students, I let them pick, you know, they can use any verbal they want as long as it makes sense to them. And it makes sense to the dog. You know, I, they can say spaghetti for all I care, as long as it, it works for them. And we all understand it. And that's awesome. Um, I want them to be happy. Um, my biggest thing, and I guess I learned this years and years and years ago, I taught a seminar and I was working with this woman who, who just, you could tell she was struggling. Like she was just having a hard time. She couldn't, she couldn't get her cues out. Right. And her handling was very stiff. And so I sat and talked to her like, you know, what's, what's going on? What, what's the issue? And she's like, well, you know, I've been taught that, you know, I need to handle like, you know, A, B or C and I need to do this. And I like, well, but it's not, it's not working. You know, you're not happy, which in turn is now making your dog not happy. So I said, let's talk about it. And so she had shown me and say, okay, you know, this is how I want to handle it. Well, let's do that. As long as it works for you and your dog, let's do that. And that's my, so my biggest thing is, you know, take kind of this baseline, basically, you know, here's kind of how most dogs respond to things, but then mold it into what you like and what works for you. You know, just like Jimmy and trip, if I were to force them and say, no, no, no, you know, you, you must, you know, use your leg. And that is what's going to, you know, kill him. But if he doesn't like that, you know, if the dog doesn't respond and that doesn't work for him,

then it's just, it's a constant battle. So my, my biggest thing when I'm teaching, um, any seminar or anything online is my poor students have to hear me say over and over again, you know, do what works for you and your dog. Don't, don't get caught up in, you know, this, that, or the other that you, you know, saw online or whatever, you know, take, take something, take an idea and go, okay, how can I make this work for me and my dog? How can I mold that into a training idea or how I handle that? It makes sense to me and my dog. Cause a bulldog is not going to run the same as a border collie and they should be handled and trained in each of their own unique way, basically. Right. Right. So you kind of mentioned that each dog has kind of their own unique, uh, handling system. Is it hard as a handler to have two dogs with a slightly different, I mean, I know you mentioned your boyfriend's dog, but your own dogs, I'd assume are also slightly different. Is it, is it hard as a handler to remember which dog you're handling? Extremely. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I run a handler who's eight and then Allie who's four. And like I said, Allie, I'm assuming it's a phase, perhaps not, um, doesn't like my talking, but Nardles on the other hand loves it. She likes the verbals. So sometimes I'll walk in the ring and I start to run Allie and I start talking and she starts barking. I'm like, Oh, wrong dog. Um, it is, it is extremely hard. And I, I know I forget. And I'm actually working with a student online right now who has two dogs and they're like night and day. And she is just having a hell of a time. I'm like, well, you know, when you figure it out, you let me know because I'd imagine that's the hardest part in some ways, because like you said, part of its muscle memory and you're trying to teach yourself to remember to do the same things and be consistent for your dog. And when you have two different dogs who want to do things differently, you have to learn two sets of muscle memory. Oh goodness. That's funny. So, uh, I want to end the episode the same way I kind of end most of the episodes, which is, uh, asking you, um, what's the dog related accomplishment that you're proudest of? Oh my gosh. Um, so the 2011 NAIDA championship, um, I love it. Um, and it is, it is one of the proudest accomplishments I have. Um, so I was competing in super stakes, which is, um, a distance class and it's a very, very hard distance class. Um, most of the time, the distance challenges your dog, is 60 feet, if not 80 feet away from you. Um, extremely hard. And I was competing. It was in Springfield, Illinois. And, um, my friend Sonny and I were competing and I was running try. Um,

and we were basically kind of going back and forth between first and second. And her and I were probably both having absolutely the best weekend of our lives as far, you know, in dog agility terms. Like we were just, she was on, I was on, um, her dog, Nessa, um, we, we trained together all the time. And so it was just awesome to go on. I would have this amazing run and the outcome study and she would have this amazing run. It was just, it was absolutely fantastic. Um, so we ran in the finals. Um, I ran first and, um, oh my God, it was just a fantastic run. Um, an amazing connection. I have a try is one of our best runs to date. It still was one of the best runs I ever had with her, uh, Sonny and her dog, Nessa run after me. And they, again, they, it was an amazing, breathtaking run. And we were 0.4 seconds apart and Sonny ended up winning. Um, and, it was the most amazing, the most amazing weekend of my life. Um, as far as I, I just, every, it's, you know, four days, uh, is how long the championships are. And the level of connection that try and I had that weekend was, was absolutely amazing. And, you know, to lose, to lose to my friend was fantastic for her to have such a fantastic weekend as well, was just awesome. Um, and that second place ribbon, I love that second place ribbon because every time I look at it, all I can think about is we were on fire that whole weekend. It was just such an amazing weekend. And competing there with my friend who was also having the best weekend of her life was just, it was just one of those things that was just amazing. And so I have to say, it's not a title or award or anything like that. It is just, it's my happiest second place ribbon I've ever gotten. That's awesome. Sometimes, I mean, you know, there's really something to be said for the relationships you form in the, in the sports world. Right. And like you, you're cheering on your, your friends and your teammates and your training buddies. And, you know, it's not always just about you and your own dog, but I mean, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, my favorite question of the whole series, always, uh, what is the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Um, so this is, this is again from study. Um, she told me to just let it go. Um, I feel like I should start singing or something. Um, you know, things are going to happen. Mistakes are going to happen. And, you know, um, you know, what the mistake you had as a handler, the mistake you had as a trainer, um, you know, stuff's going to happen and just let it go. Cause if you keep dwelling on it, you keep thinking about it, you keep beating yourself up over, Oh my gosh, if I would have handled that differently.

Or if my dog had to miss that contact, you know, learn from it, learn from it, move on and just let it go. And think about your next run. That, that was the, that's the best training advice I've ever had. And finally, who is someone else in the dog world that you look up to? I would say all of my students. Um, you know, every time I teach a seminar, my online classes, all of that, I, I learn so much from all of my students. They inspire me every day to be a better handler, a better trainer. Um, I, I, you know, even I'm in the middle of the Fendi class I'm teaching right now. I am learning so much from, from them. The questions they ask, you know, they'll ask me a question like, Oh, you know what? There's probably a different way to teach this. And, you know, they, it brings about how we can approach things differently, how we can train things differently. I have to say, you know, working on all those awesome people, it is, they, they, they inspire me. And I, I look up to every one of them that, you know, how, how we can train different things, how, you know, all that sort of stuff. I just, it's corny as it sounds. Probably all of my students, I, I just, I love every single one of them and they do, they truly inspire me to, to be, to be better, to just be better in general. It's not corny at all. It's sweet. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Amanda. It was great to get to chat and to learn a little bit more about what you do. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. Well, thank you so much. This is fantastic. Yeah. It's always good to, to learn a little bit more about some different sports out there. And, um, you know, agility is a pretty mainstream, but it's still new to me. So, and we'll be back next week, this time with Sarah Bruschi to talk training and competing for disc sports. If you haven't already subscribed to our podcast and iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone. As soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.

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