E199: 단테 카마초(Dante Camacho) - 기능적 훈련

So I just find it very interesting and challenging. So I really like, you know, all the exercise and I, you know, play quite a bit with her trying to get those done. Yeah. With my older guys, like we don't do much. There's my oldest one, 13. She's going blind. And I've just recently started working on scent with her, which is like one of the things she can do being blind. And like, she's really excited about it. So that's, you know, looking like it's going to be a lot of fun too. Yeah. There's so many interesting things that I've seen folks do with dogs who are losing their sight and scent, like adding scent to doorways and things like that. And it's all sorts of interesting. Yeah. It's interesting. Like we have one of our dogs is losing its hearing. So with that one, we start, you know, like just naturally changing the way we communicate and we're much more visual and doing all these huge like arm movements to guide the dog to cue stuff. But this one, the one that's going blind, she can hear very well. So we're constantly changing the way we are communicating, you know, like sometimes you're saying something, oh no, this one can't hear. So, but yeah, the, I think just the scent also because of all the benefits of, you know, scent work is a good thing for a dog that has been active its whole life and, you know, likes to learn, is excited about things. It's a good thing to do, especially with these guys that can't really see very well anymore. So yeah, a lot of things that people can do with dogs that have, let's say disabilities, but, you know, just enhanced abilities, I would say. Her nose is probably working much better now or much more now than it was before. Yeah. So to kind of wind back the clock, how'd you get started in all this? What landed you in dog training? Okay. I think it's probably what happened to a lot of us, a lot of people in the dog world. It was having a dog that needed to be trained. I actually, the dog wasn't even mine. It was a girlfriend's dog. I didn't have a dog at the time, but I hung out a lot with her. And the dog was a young lab, six month old black lab. And, like, you don't have to say much more. It's a young lab. It just, you know, I had no idea about training dogs or, you know, even about breeds. I didn't even know what a black lab was. I thought it was like a Rob Weiler trying to kill me when it came jumping up on me. So it was, yeah, through that, we just wanted a dog that we could, you know, interact a bit more, more calmly and walk. So I started looking up for training stuff, you know, local, like the kennel club, and just fell in love with it.

Like, since the first time I went to a class, it was a group class. I didn't really agree much with what they were doing, but I just thought it was so cool to see all of that, you know, like all those people with their dogs and dogs doing stuff. And, yeah, I just got really into it and started researching all I could about dog training. So you mentioned you didn't necessarily agree with those methods, and I know you were an early proponent of clicker training there. So next question, were you always a positive trainer, and what kind of got you started on that? Yeah. I was actually quite lucky because I wouldn't consider myself like a positive trainer right at the beginning. I did use, you know, like we used treats and we used clickers and all that. And I didn't learn how to forcefully get a dog to do something. Let's say I never learned how to, you know, push a dog's button and get it to sit or to lay down like forcefully. But we did use, let's say, like spray bottles or like if you had to teach a dog to walk on leash, we just would, you know, just turn 180 and move the other way. And then the dog would just, you know, like get to the end of that leash and not feel very good. Anyways, it was partially, I would say maybe it was a mix. Like I wouldn't call a balanced trainer because it's, I don't know, it's anything you say today, it seems like any term is sort of charged. But I do compare to most what most people were doing here. I was considered a really positive trainer. And, but anything we had to teach the dogs, let's say new behaviors were taught through luring and shaping. So in that sense, it was really good. I never learned how to use much of negative reinforcement to get dogs to do stuff. So, yeah, eventually I moved away from some of those techniques. But in the beginning, they were present. And sometimes it makes me feel bad. It's an evolution. You know, we just, we move on. Yep. Do better once we know better type things. Yeah, exactly. So what about these days? How would you kind of describe your training philosophy? Okay. I actually have a name for it here in Brazil. I call it a functional training. That's basically what I, what I try to, to spread and also develop. That came from also the functional idea of, you know, of fitness and stuff. I was really into it for a while. And, you know, the whole idea of teaching or learning or practicing behaviors that would help in your everyday life and not just doing things in dog training because someone said you have to teach that, you know, like sit or down or, you know, what is it really that we need our dogs to know in everyday life?

Right. Right. And that was one thing that I moved towards. And also understanding that not only, you know, teaching behaviors is dog training, but is seeing a dog as a whole. And so understanding more about how my dog's fitness is important or how it eats is important for its learning or the relationships that it has being with me or with other people or other dogs. Whatever, whatever, whatever happens to a dog in the dog's life influences its behavior and its ability to learn. So when I teach, I'm always thinking about all these things at the same time. So it can be a bit difficult sometimes for people, especially if you're starting to kind of grasp all these things that, you know, you have to think about. But that's my main goal. Like people understand that a dog is not, it is a dog. It can only be a dog, but a dog is much more than we can, than we most people think about right now. So I mentioned earlier that, you know, you're one of the earlier doctors of clicker training there in Brazil. I'm going to imagine that that came with some tough moments, some incredibly rewarding ones, some good moments, some bad spots. Can you just share a little bit what it was like? So, Melissa, you actually made me feel quite old when you said when I started training dogs. I won't say how many years ago, but when that happened, it was, you know, in the beginning, in the very beginning, when I was not like exposing myself, going to competitions, you know, seeing other trainers. It was fine because for me, that was all that existed. I didn't, you know, didn't know anything else. But yes, when I started going out and, you know, seeing other people train and trying, you know, I want to, you know, rent this place because I want to train my dog or I want to watch these guys training. Oh, these guys are training. Maybe I can go and train with them. And then you show up with a clicker and, you know, a treat bag and, you know, like most people didn't understand. But even before they did, or even if you try to explain, they just thought it was wrong. And, you know, we have a very macho sort of culture. And it was like a girl's thing to use a clicker. Like that couldn't possibly work, you know, especially with dogs or if you're training obedience and all of that. So I just kept quiet and that because that was all I knew. And I, as I mentioned before, I was always, you know, looking for stuff. And Internet already existed at that time. I was always looking up stuff and seeing that, you know, there were people doing stuff, really cool stuff. And they were, you know, like achieving a lot with these techniques.

So I just trusted that that's what I had to do and sort of ignored all the name calling and all these things that people were doing. I just, you know, just kept doing my thing. And it was very rewarding once these same people started asking me to teach them. Not because I was like, you know, yes, I knew I was right. I didn't have to do that. I was actually quite pleased that people were able to step back and, you know, like, oh, maybe there is something in there. And I was able to go to those same places and actually explain to them what was happening and why things were happening that way. Basically, though, that only happened because of results. You know, like you go into a competition and people seeing a dog that was not doing well eventually do really well. And especially also looking at a dog's attitude, which at that time people were not really realizing that it had to do with you and your training. It was not just the dog. And when they saw that, that made them come after me and, you know, like look for more information, which made me very happy because I knew a lot of dogs could be helped. Yeah. So you started to go there. My next question was, you know, how did you go from this point where you're kind of just learning about clicker training and, you know, swimming upstream a little bit, maybe, you know, against the against the trends to international agility competitions? Like. Pretty impressive. Yeah. It was actually quicker than I thought. I had very good teachers as far as, you know, there are some people that were good that were with me. But also I had good dogs that taught me. My first agility dog was a Scottish Terrier. And that's when I didn't really know anything either about agility or dog training. So she was a bit of a challenge. She was a great dog. But for me as a trainer at that time, she was a challenge. And so she had her physical limitations being a Scotty, like to compete. But she actually got, you know, like we got a lot done in agility. But then I also tried everything that I knew about clicker training. I tried with that dog. So I tried targeting. I tried obedience. I tried like all these things that I was learning. And like she gave me like a lot of experience. And then the next dogs I took seemed like they were a little bit easier in some ways. You know, like I didn't have to convince them that, look, let's play this instead of just, you know, chase stuff. And but eventually, like I was lucky enough to adopt a dog that was just, you know, like people just didn't want them. The breeder just had given up. It was pretty sick, about a year old.

And through clicker training, positive approach to training, that dog was physically capable to actually run quite well. And through that, we started competing. And for some reason, I was lucky enough. I don't know if people were just too, they suck too much or we were doing really well. We were actually able to, you know, win local competitions, national competitions and qualify for the team. And once I went abroad to compete and saw like the rest of the world, then I just told myself, I'm never going to miss this again. I'm always going to come here. You know, I like it because there's so much learning. So it was like a natural process, probably took about two, three years from the beginning until I was in the team. And I got to go out and, you know, compete with my dog. But to me, it didn't look like it was, it didn't feel like it was too long. It was just a natural process. And I've certainly felt like it belonged there. So that was good. That's awesome. And so fun to like kind of hear that story and how, you know, you progress. And props to you for starting with the Terrier. Yeah. So what about the kind of the freestyle stuff? How did that factor in? Because, you know, this is all the agility piece. Yeah. You also did all this cool freestyle stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So it actually started because after having this coddy, I decided I'm going to have a border collie because everybody has a border collie. Everybody has all these amazing dogs. They're running so fast and they're doing all these things. But then I got a border collie, a puppy that had stemper. And at about three and a half months old, had a fracture on one of her femurs and she had to have a surgery. And so it was like that wouldn't be my agility dog. But because of her condition, I had to do a lot of different things with her so that she could recover, especially like her mobility and her strength on that leg that she actually stopped using for almost a year. So because of that, I actually started teaching her to move in different ways. So I had to teach her to move, to walk sideways, to walk backwards, to spin, to put her weight in different. So I just naturally progressed to teaching so many tricks. And she was so motivated. She was a great dog in that way. So we did so many tricks that I could do them in sequence and to music eventually. So I had heard about freestyle, had heard about Mary Ray. And I said, yeah, my dog can do that. We can do that. And so, yeah, that's how it started. We started, you know, like showing on dog shows and, you know, TV shows, just going out and playing.

And basically there was, you know, there was never like an intention from the beginning. It was just trying to get this dog to improve physically. Helped her. It helped her and kind of brought me into this world. And so freestyle to me is essential also because of all the physical aspects and the benefits that it brings. That's why all my dogs that do agility or anything else will always learn freestyle moves and tricks because I can see how much that can benefit a dog physically and for their confidence and everything. So you sat in there. And then we just kind of started doing TV shows. I feel like training your dog in your backyard, being on TV. There's a gap there. Well, I guess the dog world in Brazil is not as big as in the U.S. So I think the universe sort of just makes things happen. You meet the right people. And then, you know, things are happening. They see you do something. Then suddenly you get a call. Oh, look, I'm going to this TV show. And they want to know like something different. And the dog, they can do something. Yeah, no problem. And I knew that dog was, you know, she was solid. She was like really great at anywhere we want. I used to say that if we want to do it underwater, we'll do it underwater because she's always she always wanted to do stuff and was always very happy doing it. So, yeah, it was there were obviously coincidences. But I was actually talking to my nephew yesterday. Okay. Opportunities, they will always come. The difference is always it's not having or not opportunities because they always come to everyone. It's just if you're prepared for them. So it just happened that I was prepared. I wasn't trying to be, but I was ready. I had what was needed for those situations. So then it all started. Yeah, you put in the work and then when the opportunities arose, you had what you needed. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, part of the reason that I got introduced to you is because you're going to do a webinar for us at FDSS. Yes. Super excited to have you. And your focus is on training the dog you have and adjusting accordingly. So I wanted to ask, you know, what happened that really kind of taught you that lesson, the importance of tailoring, you know, your training to the dog in front of you? And can you kind of share that story? Well, I kind of already started when I told you about this, Scotty. Right. Because I think it still happens today, but it certainly did when I was starting to train dogs that, you know, there were training plans. There were plans, things that you have to do. This is how you train a dog.

This is how if you do this, the dog will respond in this way or that way. But then you get to a dog and things don't really happen the way you expected. You just, it's either you think there's a problem with the dog or a problem with how you're doing things. And that is a very sort of dangerous place because you tend to try to, it's like saying something and someone doesn't understand what you're saying. You just say it louder, expecting that they will suddenly understand what you're saying. But it's not really, right? It's just how you say it. So learning that from the very beginning was very important to understand that, you know, it was not just like, oh, yes, I realize I have to do things different. No, you know, there was a lot of, you know, misunderstandings between us along the way. But eventually I realized, you know, by looking at my dog, actually, you know, looking at her, realized that she was telling me things that were so very clear. Like, don't do things this way, just do it this way and everything will be fine. And so these dogs that were different or not, they were not different, they're just dogs, but that were not adapting to the general plan are, you know, is the reason why I realized that you just have to adapt to your students just like we do to people. We do to dogs. And the dog's not going to change. The dog's going to be the same. You can't really do much about that. But eventually other dogs that were very important to me in the beginning of my career as well, when I worked with like sight hounds or toy dogs and all of that, that sort of helped me see that even changing has to be different for each of them. It's not just, oh, there's two ways of training. No, there's a way of training for each dog. And I know that can be scary for some people, but it's the truth, right? There's general stuff, guidelines, there's science that doesn't change because of the dog, but how we apply it, it's a little bit different. And that just, you know, changes your results. If you're, you know, result oriented, that definitely helps you achieve your results much faster. That makes you happy and your dog as well. So we've kind of talked about the past. I want to kind of bring us back to the present. You know, you've had a chance to do all these super interesting things in the training world. Can you share a little more on kind of what you're doing now, what you're working on, what projects are currently on your plate? Well, I do have a few projects here in Brazil for my, as you mentioned, my online training platform. So we are, we've been doing for maybe two and a half years.

We've been just increasing the number of courses and, you know, trying to reach more and more people. And it's been very rewarding for us because we, we really get a lot of very good feedback in the way that, you know, like we feel like we are changing people's lives. And that is really something that makes me, you know, it's just makes you happy. I guess that's the word I would use. So here in Brazil, that's what we're trying to work on, increase the number of courses and stuff that we do towards teaching people more about our way of approaching training, being more positive. Because even though, you know, it's been more than 20 years that clicker training has come to Brazil, the idea of training is still, you know, the old ways of training are still pretty ingrained in people's heads. So it's, you know, it's work that I know it's going to last. We still have a lot of things to do. Besides that, I normally, before Corona, I would, you know, go out abroad quite a bit, teach overseas. Now that has changed. So we're working a lot on, you know, like doing webinars and presenting stuff for either here in Brazil, but also different countries around the world. So basically that's what we're doing. These are our projects as far as work, but with the dogs, mostly I'm really, you know, excited about just doing obedience in the highest level possible. Even if I'm not looking at competing, I'm really driven by the excitement of training. Like I just love training my dogs and studying more and more about the scent side of things, which is just a different world that I'm very grateful the dogs invited me into it. You didn't even mention the zoo stuff. Oh, yes. Oh, they're so cute. There's so many babies where we work now. We just had a tapir baby born last week and we get a lot of the zoo where I work. We get a lot of orphan animals because, you know, contraband or, you know, just animals that get hit on the roads. There's a lot of fauna here around where I live. So like panthers and toucans and like all kinds of wolves and all these animals. It's quite interesting. But this has been also very rewarding for me. We've been working on changing the way these animals, many of them that have been living in like quite poor conditions for like over a decade. And we have been able to simply like completely change these animals like you would not even identify. That's the same animal I saw six months ago. So it's been really rewarding. It's something that I'm getting deeply involved. But it's still and probably won't be like my main focus. Yeah. Like it's something that I get involved, but I don't.

My intention is not like to work or teach or anything like that. It's something that I that's really rewarding to me. And I learn a lot and I love to help. And but it's something that will always be here maybe once, twice a week. I'll be doing this every week for the rest of my life if I can. But right now is not something that I think, oh, this is work. I feel like this is just like a huge opportunity for learning and helping. But yeah, that's sort of how I feel. That's that's probably why I didn't say anything, because I don't feel like it's work. It's just such an amazing time. It's like you go on holidays every week. I can go there and you're like, just enjoy so much, like being there with all those animals and knowing that you're making a difference in each of them. That's really cool. We work with maybe right now, eight, nine different species. So in addition to the FTSA webinar, you're doing a presentation for us for the Lemonade Conference. And that's mostly tied into the zoo piece, right? Yes, exactly. How how training all these zoo animals, how working with them has helped me understand even more about dog training. Of course, dog training has helped me work with them. But definitely what they show me every day has made me a better trainer for sure. A dog trainer. Yeah. So I've got three questions. I usually kind of end the episode with every time I have a new guest on. OK. So the first one is what's the dog related accomplishment that you're proudest of? Dog related. I believe. I believe. Is just my rescue. Sheltie that I went to worlds with like four times. I think that is, you know, it's not even about, you know, placements or championships or anything like that. It's just what we achieved as far as a team as, you know, like how far we came. Like to the day that I met that dog that he would look at me and take off running to, you know, being with me until 14 when he passed. It was like that is the accomplishment. It's like it's that whole path. You know, there's other moments where, you know, you're showing yourself off with your dog for like 12,000 people and, you know, everybody's cheering. This is fun. You know, placing really high at an international competition. Yeah, this is fun. It's cool. But I think the biggest one is that was that process of seeing how we evolved as a team and how, you know, life just changed through training, through that friendship for both of us. So that I think is my biggest accomplishment. Next question here is what's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Ooh.

I don't know who I heard that from, but I recently heard Denise actually saying that too. And it is, I'm not saying, I probably won't say correctly the words, but that we should bring training into play and not play into training. Right. My training has become more and more relationship based. And that just makes total sense. You know, like there's obviously training. There's a lot could mean training. But as a general rule, first fun, first enjoy yourself with your dog and then bring in the little things that maybe make sense to you. Not so much your dog at this point. But, yeah, that's the order and not the opposite, which is how I learned first. Last one. Who is somebody else in the dog world that you look up to? Okay. There's many trainers that I look up to. And, you know, there's many since I've been into, you know, competition, dog sports. There's so many amazing trainers and competitors that are like, it's hard to name. You can go online and it's just there's person after person. And like, there's a lot of people that do really well. And that I look up to and I admire. But I think that the ones that actually make me think like, wow, these people or I would love to, you know, reach at least a little bit with what they did are the, I would say, like dinosaurs. These people that actually made such a huge difference for positive training around the world, like, let's say, Karen Pryor, like Ian Dunbar and Terry Ryan and all these names that we sort of take for granted. But it's kind of paved a lot of the way that we have today. Like today, it's easy to find information about training, about, you know, good information. And definitely these people helped that a lot. And so my idea, especially here in my country, is to do that kind of work. And try to try to pave the way, make so that, you know, like this becomes much easier for everyone. That's quite a mission. Yeah, it is. That's good. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. This has been great. Yes. Thank you, Melissa. It's a pleasure. It's an honor to be here. And it's an honor to, you know, be with the Academy and, you know, share a little bit of what I do. And, yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Eva Bertelsen and Emily Johnson-Vey to talk about their upcoming webinar on transports. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. For our next episode, automatically download it to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by benson.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Thank you. Thank you.