E21: 로리 스티븐스(Lori Stevens) - "행동, 움직임, 건강 그리고 학습"

So we moved on. So now we do fitness. We do stand-up paddleboard. We do lots of hikes. And now I'm living with an aging dog. So I actually have firsthand experience now in living with a dog that's getting older. But I wanted to bring up my first dog because that is the dog, Emmy, who got me into any of this work at all. And basically she had a lot of health challenges, a lot of physical challenges. I learned just loads of stuff from her, and that's how I originally got into T-Touch training and massage. So I'll talk a little bit about that more, but I just want to bring up that Emmy's always present, even though she's been gone 10 years. She's been gone quite a while. They do manage to have quite a lasting impact sometimes. That is so true. Yeah. So true. So what led you to where you are now? I mean, you started to mention Emmy a little bit, but how did you kind of end up working with dogs for a living? Well, so Emmy had all these physical issues, and I just took a T-Touch class basically to learn things to help Emmy. And I kept going to my vet, and my vet kept saying, you're just doing wonderful work with her. If you would just get cards made up, I would send all my clients to you, send loads of clients to you. And so it's kind of strange because I won't say when, but way back when I ended up with a degree in computer science. But before that, I was in occupational therapy, and I was also in the university dance company. I danced for many years. So I had this kind of weird dual interest, both in things, physical, movement, body work. I always had that interest with occupational therapy and dance, but then I ended up in IT for many, many years. I just retired from the university in April 2017 from University of Washington. But in 2005, I started my practice, and that was at the urging of a vet. So I got cards made up, and I didn't really think a lot was going to come of it. But in fact, that vet built my practice. So I went to four days a week at the university and had a practice one day a week for a long time. And then I went halftime at the university. I just kept kind of building my practice and working in IT. And now I'm out of IT and totally focused on animals, which is fantastic. Indeed. Congrats. That's so exciting, being able to focus on it full time. Yes, it is. Now I'm spending full time writing this course, which is really great fun. But it's a lot of work, and so it's a good thing I don't have my job, too. So there are lots of kind of interesting pieces there, right? And just like kind of all the different things that you work with and all the different techniques you have.

But I want to start with T-Touch. So for those not familiar with it at all, can you kind of explain what it is? I can. You're right. There's all those pieces, and oddly enough, they do all fit together. But what is T-Touch training? So people hear touch, and they think it's only body work. But T-Touch training is actually a lot more than body work. It is body work, and there are a variety of body work techniques, touch techniques. But there's also an element of it that is movement, which includes slowing down dogs and having them move precisely over various equipment or in different movement patterns over different surfaces, stopping, turning, really slowing down the nervous system, and letting them feel themselves, their bodies. And it's in a way that maybe they haven't felt them before. It's interesting how many dogs move really, really fast, and it's uncomfortable for them to move really slowly when they're working with someone. So you learn a lot from that. And there's also several tools and techniques that go along with T-Touch. One of those is leash walking and making it more comfortable for dogs to walk on leash and to fit well in their equipment. And that's pretty much how, you know, it's that awareness that caused me to develop over years, the balance harness. But there's also the really learning to observe the dogs and to give them choice. So there's a lot in T-Touch that many years ago other people weren't really focusing on. And now, thankfully, many people are focusing on it all over the place. So it's kind of nice that, you know, it's now overlapping more with other work that people are doing. And anyway, I hope that gives you a better idea. But it's not just body work. Okay. Okay. So I wanted to ask kind of how it works, too. And does it work for all dogs? Is it something that works, you know, for some dogs better than others? Is it something that, like, I could learn to do? I mean, how does that all kind of work? Absolutely you could learn to do it. Does it work for all dogs? I have to answer that in, you know, of course there's an element of it that works for all dogs. But you have to define what you mean by works and everything depends on the dog and what you're trying to do. But the thing that makes the T-Touch work unique is that it's non-habitual. In other words, the way you touch the dog is not the way the dog is used to being touched. So it sort of gets the attention of the nervous system in a different way. The way you move the dogs is different from how they typically move. So it kind of gets their attention in another way.

It's almost as if they're listening to the work sometimes. It's super interesting. The nice thing about it is that I can get a dog that's so fearful in my practice that I can't touch the dog. But I have other tools to use with that dog. So I can move the dog. And over time with that movement, I build trust and we have a dialogue going on between us. And eventually that dog says, okay, I'm ready to be touched now. I mean, they really do. They come up to your hands. And then once you start the touch work, you've got another set of things you can do. So it's really got a depth to it that isn't so visible on the surface. And the fact that it's called T-Touch often misleads people into thinking that it's just this one thing where you touch your dog. So it's called T-Touch. So it was developed years ago. And it's a technique that moves people in non-habitual ways to kind of develop new neural pathways to give them freedom of movement again. So people that have serious injuries or, you know, very limited for whatever reason, a variety of reasons, have very limited movement. They can work with a Feldenkrais practitioner or in a Feldenkrais class called Awareness Through Movement that really slows down and moves your body into non-habitual patterns to regain new freedom of movement in your own body. It teaches your body to move in another way to get to the same place. And Linda Tellington-Jones, who developed Tellington T-Touch Training, went through that Feldenkrais training for, she did it in order to work with the riders at her equine center, the horse riders. So then she started applying those ideas and those techniques to animals. And that's where the work came from. I know. It's a well-kept secret. So, you know, you're also a small animal massage practitioner and you're certified canine in massage. So how do those pieces kind of mesh? What are some of the differences between something like T-Touch and massage? How do you use them in conjunction? There is overlap and there's also quite a bit of difference. So with my massage training, I can really focus on if I'm working with a dog who is super tight in the shoulders from doing too much agility over the weekend, has big knots. You know, I can get those knots out because I have that training. Also, my training is in rehabilitation massage. So I can do manual lymphatic drainage. So if a dog has lymphoma, say, and has huge swollen lymph nodes in the neck that you can actually see how swollen the lymph nodes are. I can do this very gentle work to bring that swelling down to move the lymph system, lymph fluid again.

So I can do very specific work that has a very physical effect. In the T-Touch body work, I can work on a tail and change the behavior of a dog. So what? So it's very different. You're more working with fascia and skin and the nervous system than you are working muscles, although muscles can change as well. Both of the techniques can change gait. It's all very, very interesting how, you know, both of them can change gait from working on the bodies. And I'm sure there's a lot of overlap, even when you're focusing on different things, but they really have kind of a different focus. And the T-Touch work is much, I won't say lighter, because they both can be quite light. Like even when I'm working on a knot in a muscle, I don't dig in there. You know, I'm very, I go with the muscle. But I would just say they have a different focus, and therefore you can end up with a different result. And the T-Touch body work can actually, I see more changes in behavior than I do with massage. And I don't know if that's because I'm focused more on that. I don't know. I mean, it's kind of interesting. But, you know, when your dog gets really uptight, oftentimes out on a walk, my dog's tail will start to go up. That'll be one of the first things I see. Maybe her ears and head, but I'll see her tail go up. But if I actually reach down and just stroke her tail and bring her tail back down, it actually brings her back down. Interesting. Yeah, I know. It's kind of interesting. I might have to teach that in my next FENSE course. Hey, I'd certainly be interested in learning more about it. So what it sounds like to me, and I could be total F-base, obviously, but is the T-Touch is a little bit more focused on kind of the physical and behavioral tied together, whereas the massage is more kind of on the physical and performance side? Is that kind of right? Well, sure. You can put it that way. You could put it that way. I would just say they are different techniques. There is overlap, but there are different techniques. T-Touch, in no way does it do manual lymphatic drainage, for example. That is a massage technique. And when I'm doing just massage to get knots out, I'm not generally looking for changes in behavior. I'm looking for changes in the body. So I don't know. I mean, they're both touching the body, both body work. Now, you're also a certified canine fitness trainer. So how does that factor in? So that factors into the movement work. So I had been doing the T-Touch training movement work for years.

And it wasn't really getting dogs to the point that I wanted, it wasn't really getting them where I wanted them to go if they were showing weakness in their muscles. I was really looking for having a background in dance and being very active my entire life. I was really looking for ways of helping the dogs be stronger and more flexible and more agile and more confident and blah, blah, blah. And some of those T-Touch gave and some of those it didn't. So it was natural for me to take it a step further. I mean, all the stuff I do, it sounds like a bunch of certifications, but they're all really interwoven. I had been doing some fitness with dogs for years. And then when the University of Tennessee offered the certified canine fitness trainer program in partnership with Fit Paws, I jumped on it because that was the first program that I saw that I thought would be worth doing. And just going ahead and getting my certification in it. Plus, I learned things. What I see, especially as dogs age, is weakness or, you know, I see habitual movement patterns that maybe a dog got injured when they were two. And at six, they're still carrying the same pattern. They just never quit taking all their weight off their back right foot, say. So fitness really allowed me to take it a step further and help those dogs get back to being more functional and stronger. And it's really fun. And it's a fantastic way of building trust, enjoying communication with your dog. It's just another, like I said, it's my sport. So one of my sports. So I just think it's fantastic. So I want to kind of shift gears for a minute and look at your interest in older dogs. What led to that? Was it, was it Cassie getting older or was it something else? No, no. I've been working with older dogs for years. It's funny how long I worked with them before I had one, although I have had older dogs before. But because of the kind of work I was doing, the veterinarians were sending lots of senior dogs to me. And because I was helping them get functional again and helping them feel better, I just kept getting them. So I had a lot of experience. Even in 2005, I was getting the older dogs sent to me. And I just kept building up that knowledge of working with them and helping them feel better. I wonder what year it was. I want to say it was 2014, but I can't be certain. Kathy Sadeo and I decided to do Gift of a Gray Muzzle together and really focus on aging dogs in a video, in a workshop. We just gave that workshop recently.

Again, it's kind of a passion of mine because, you know, everybody, when they get a puppy, they're very enthusiastic about their new puppy. And, you know, they have to learn a bunch of things, but there's like, you know, there's a motivation to learn a bunch of things because you have a new puppy. You just went out and got it. But our dogs age gradually. And it's not the same kind of, oh, boy, I've got an aging dog and I'll go out and learn all these new things. You know, books on aging dogs don't sell. And the thing is, is that there's a joy, a real joy of working with aging dogs and watching them get new light in their eyes and watching them physically get through things that maybe they weren't getting through before. So, anyway, that's what led me to it. To kind of dig into that a little more, what are some of the issues that our older furry friends tend to struggle with where your training and presumably also your upcoming class may be able to help? Mm-hmm. Well, I think even with people, keeping our dogs' minds or keeping our minds and bodies active is incredibly important. And this thing happens as dogs age is they all of a sudden get really comfortable sleeping for a very long time. And I think we go, especially if we have more than one dog, I think we kind of say to ourselves, well, my older dog's fine. You know, I'll put more energy into my younger dog. You know, maybe don't think that, but that's what ends up happening. And then one day you notice, oh, my God, you know, the hind end strength is going and the proprioception is going, which both of those naturally diminish with age. I better say what proprioception is. Yes, please. Proprioception is your ability to, it's unconscious ability to know where your body is in space during movement. So if you think of a toddler with a, that at a certain age, they can't hold their cup up with juice in it. They're just pouring it upside down and then they're upset their juice is gone. But then at a certain age, they suddenly know how to keep their cup upright while they move. That's proprioception. Well, you lose it with age. And so you have dogs that used to be able to step over and run over everything running into low poles or low logs or whatever. And so the hind end strength and the proprioception naturally diminish with age. And so in the course and when I work with older dogs and when I do the workshops, that's what I'm helping people do is get those back. Also, I think we're not quite prepared as humans to, all of a sudden we have this senior dog and our dog can't do as much as it could do before.

And so we have to change as well. So how do we, how do our expectations need to change and how can we make this time together, which hopefully will be many years as wonderful as it can be? You know, we have to change our expectations and rather than be disappointed, find, find joy in that as much as our dogs need to find joy in our different kind of life as well. Not meaning this isn't bad. This is all good stuff. I mean it all in a very good way. It's just that it's different. And so, you know, in the course I'll give lots of tips on easiest way to get your dog in and out of a car, up on the sofa, the functional things that dogs could do when they were younger, sometimes those go away. And so how do we bring back that function or maintain that function and joy with our aging dogs? So we'll be doing lots of activities in that course on keeping our dog's mind and body, minds and bodies active, but also tools and techniques we can use to participate in making their lives as good as we can. So if you were to help. Absolutely. So if you were to make one recommendation for everyone listening who happens to have an aging or older dog, kind of what would it be? Is it about mind shift? Is it about, you know, exercise? I mean what kind of piece would you pull out of that? Well, I'd certainly have one. Surprise, surprise. I would say be your dog's advocate. Trust yourself. If you suspect something is wrong, be a detective until you get to the source. I can't tell you how many times the answer is, well, your dog's getting older. You know, you're making stuff up or that's just natural. Your dog's getting older. And there really has been something. So I just think it's really, really important to be your dog's advocate and to trust yourself. And it's okay to take your older dog to, you know, acupuncture appointments or T-touch appointments or massage appointments or swimming appointments. You know, whatever you want to do to make yourself feel better. That's a good thing. But if you notice that, and your dog feel better. But if you notice something seems off, it can be really hard to find what it is and just be your dog's advocate. That's all I can say. Go to another vet if your veterinarian isn't willing to work with you through figuring out what it is. And finally, the way I end every episode, I want to ask you kind of the same three questions I've asked everybody who's come on so far. So to start, what's the dog-related accomplishment that you are proudest of? My observation skills. I mean, they have developed since 2005.

And I'm happy that I can now recognize how developed they are and how important observation skills are. And really honoring the dog's needs rather than my own agenda, right? I mean, you know, sometimes it's natural when you have a practice to think through, I'm getting ready to see this person and dog. And here's my agenda for the hour-long session. We're going to do X, Y, and Z. And then the dog gets there and goes, no, we're not. You know, I want to do something else. So really being observant to be able to tell that and then honoring the dog's needs. And the person, of course, has the same way you do as well. But, you know, really honoring the dog's needs. And I've actually, I will say, it's only happened once since 2005. But I lost a client for not forcing a dog to do things. And so I didn't mind losing that client. Right, right. It's important to stand up for your principles and kind of do what you believe is the right thing. Yeah, and I'm just not comfortable forcing dogs into position for massage. Right. So what about training advice? What is the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? You know, it's funny. I don't really think these are what you have in mind. That is okay. Yeah. Meet the dog where she is or he is. That was the best piece of advice I heard. And that was in T-Touch. But this kind of change to meet both learners, the dog and the person where they are. You can't really guide. You can't really tell people to change, right? You have to guide them gently and go kind of move with them when they're ready to move. People have to decide for themselves to make changes. And communication is so incredibly important. And I've seen dogs go from, dogs and people go from, you know, a pretty dark place to an incredible place. And I'm so thrilled with what, you know, with the influence that I had on that. I would have to say just meeting everybody where they are and recognizing how important communication is. And that's not about just about what we think or how we think it should be done, but bringing the person and dog along at their own pace. And finally, who is someone else in the dog world that you look up to? Well, you know, there's several. Of course. But I'd have to say Dr. Susan Friedman and Ken Ramirez probably are two of the top. Ken's well-regarded amongst the FDSA. I've heard his name a couple of times now. Yeah, he's pretty great. So is Dr. Susan Friedman. I think you'll hear her name more and more if you haven't already. Cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Lori. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on. I feel like I learned a ton.

That's great. Yeah. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Amy Johnson to discuss photography and our dogs. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music