E24: 멜리사 챈들러(Melissa Chandler) - "노즈워크, 파쿠르, 그리고 소심한 개 훈련하기"

He took puppy class with Karen and Abigail, who are the founders of the International Dog Parkour Association, and he was a superstar. He had incredible balance and rear-end awareness for such a young puppy, and he was always like a little kid at Christmas every time they introduced a new obstacle. It became part of our class whenever they brought something new out. We would turn Bam to face the wall so he couldn't see, and then everyone would watch when he would turn around because he would just smile and light up at a new obstacle. It was so cute. He loves agility, hunting, obedience, and he's a super nosework dog, but he also loves crittering. So we've been working really hard at increasing odor value and slowly incorporating that into the environment with fun, easy hides and also using some free Mac. And I'm actually sharing our adventures of this journey in my current Newswork 120 class, and I think it's a nice fit in that class because we're starting all the different elements. And then I'm also planning on turning it into a full proofing and distraction class at the beginning of 2018. You mentioned the heat. Where are you located? We're in Ohio. Okay. We have hot, humid summers, and neither one of us can handle it. Fair enough. I did a summer in Charleston at one point, and that was pretty bad, too. So I can sympathize. And that's one thing I love about my training building now because we have a place to go train that's air-conditioned in the summer. Can't beat that. No. Before we get up at 6 o'clock in the morning, if it's cooler, and get out and get a little bit of training in before the day starts. I wanted to kind of take it back a little bit to the beginning of your journey. I know you kind of mentioned each of your dogs has helped you get into a different sport. How did you originally get started out in dog sports? I've always enjoyed dog training before I really knew anything about it or what it was. I think when I was like 10 or 11, a friend of the family asked me to show her Schnauzer in confirmation. And I did one show, and I was addicted. I convinced, or maybe for a lack of better term, I negotiated with my dad to get a poodle. I actually asked for a Great Dane knowing I wouldn't get a Great Dane, but I was able to negotiate down to a poodle. And we started some junior handling. And then from that, I started doing confirmation. And then I got into 4-H and AKC obedience. We competed locally at our county fairs. And every year, we were fortunate enough to win a spot to go to state fair. So we got to go to big competitions for us being at that young age in 4-H.

And my parents were so supportive. They had to drive me all over to our training and trials. And every weekend, we'd go off to some remote place to do a confirmation or an obedience trial. And I fell in love with it so much. And then I met a Weimaraner. And I knew I had to have a Weimaraner. And I got my first Weimaraner and started obedience. And then I got my second Weimaraner. And that's when Agility was just coming to the U.S. and started Agility. And it's kind of all history from there. So I've been doing this for a really long time. Now, I know you mentioned Edge got you into nose work. Do you want to share that story a little bit? Like, what was it about nose work or about him and nose work? How did that happen? Sure. As I said, Edge is responsible for this awesome nose work journey that we've shared. And we both have such a passion for the sport now. He's very soft. And he stresses down. He loves to train and work. But he could not handle a trial environment. And we went to several trials. And he just wasn't happy. And if he's not happy, I'm not happy. So I was looking for something for him to do. And his breeders are in California. And they had mentioned this great new sport called nose work. There wasn't anything in our area. So I had traveled and gone to a couple seminars and thought, yep, this is for us. And was looking for some ongoing instruction. And that is when Denise actually offered her very first online class before FDSA even existed. So we're from the pre-FDSA days. And we took her very first online class in nose work. We started that and never looked back. Took all of the classes online. And I'm one of those people, once I learn something, I want to learn anything and everything I can about it. I just want to know everything I can so I can help my dog the best. So I traveled to a lot of different seminars. I went to different people, different philosophies, different ideas. And just absorbed as much as I could about nose work. I also volunteered at trials even before Edge and I were competing so I could learn what it was all about. I learned so much from the judges at the briefings. There's things that to this day that still they're like little gems of information that I share with my students that I learned at debriefings. So I highly recommend anyone that can volunteer at a trial to do it because it definitely is a great education and you learn a lot of information. Not to put you on the spot, but do you mind sharing one of the tips that you picked up at a debriefing just kind of for the audience? Not at all.

One of the things, and especially when you're starting nose work, is your dog's getting close to the source, close to the source. And you want to step in there and look or step in there to get ready to reward. And the judge's comment was whenever you feel like you need to step in, you step out. And that is so true because if your dog starts bracketing and working the odor, the last thing you want to do is be in their way. So you just take a step back and they don't need you. You can't help them. So it's just get out of their way. They'll tell you when they find it and then you can step in and give them the reward. And I've passed that on to so many students. And I still remember it sometimes, you know, we're working, working, working. You start to step in. It's like, no, take a step back. Because if you do get in the odor, you can prevent them from following the scent cone to source. So I just, I find that to be very, very valuable. That was probably the very first trial that I worked at that I learned that information. And I think that just in general, kind of attending trials and helping out is such a great tip. I mean, I know I've been trying to do that for obedience stuff locally because my dog's not ready to trial. And it just lets you meet people. It lets you get to know the local community. It lets you kind of see some of the judges and their different styles. And I mean, it's just incredibly invaluable. Absolutely. And if possible, at the nose work trials, I try to get a job that I have some interaction with the judge because most of them love to teach. So they tell you different things and you can just absorb so much information from them just, you know, if you're a timer or something because they love to share that information. Now, having worked with a soft dog, do you have tips for others who have soft dogs kind of to help them let their dog shine or that they should know about setting up training sessions? I mean, what kind of advice would you share? Sure. This is another subject that I did a lot of research and I attended a lot of different seminars to try and get information, mostly to help edge. And I think first and foremost, it's so important to keep your dog safe and build their trust. Because once they trust you that you will keep them safe, that gives them more confidence. And as I always tell my back or tell my dogs, I have a cue. It's called I have your back. So if they see something and they get concerned, I'm like, I got your back. So that's our communication of whatever it is. I see it. You're fine. I got you. And it just takes time.

And by keeping them safe, you build that trust that they know that you do have them. I would say never lure or trick your dog into doing something that they don't feel comfortable doing. Sometimes we find that in parkour because someone really thinks their dog should be able to do that behavior and the dog doesn't feel comfortable in that environment. So they try to take cookies and lure them there. Just back off, work on it somewhere else, and eventually it'll happen. If you lure them and then they get up there and they're really afraid, they're never going to want to do it again. If you let them do it on their own, then they'll be able to do that anywhere in the future. Teach new behaviors in a familiar, comfortable environment. And then when you're ready to take it to another room or on the road, lower your criteria and reward any effort that the dog gives you in trying to do that for you. And one thing, when you're setting up your training sessions, make sure you're not always asking for difficult behaviors or in nose work, difficult searches. You want your dog to always look forward to and succeed in your training sessions. If your sessions are always difficult and challenging, your dog will no longer look forward to them. Have fun sessions that you reward everything or just play or do whatever your dog enjoys most. I had mentioned how much Ed loves his dumbbell. There's times we just go in the other room and we play with the dumbbell. And he loves that. And just think of the value you're building in your relationship and your training because we just went and did what he loved doing. And then for nose work, play foundation games. Just have one or two boxes out. Do the shell game. Play with your game boxes. So it's fun, fast, quick, highly rewarding searches. And I have a thing that I put in most of my classes. It's kind of like the recalls, but it's for odor. How much value do you have in your odor bank? And when you set up these fun, fast foundation games, you're putting lots of value in your odor bank. So then when you have a more challenging side, you have deposits in that odor bank that they can pull out in order to work harder to find that odor. One of the other things I recommend is to be consistent and build routines. Soft dogs feel comfortable in routines as they know what to expect and then things are not so scary. And empower your dog to make decisions and have a party when they do. Again, nose work is great for this.

Soft dogs do better with shaping or decision making when they have an obstacle to interact with versus just blank space that they have to figure something out. So that's where parkour comes in. So parkour is great at empowering your dog. Just give them an obstacle and let them do anything they want and reward the interaction with that obstacle. Kind of back to edge of the dumbbell again, but find what your dog loves or loves doing and incorporate it into your training and use it as the reward. Or even odor value. Your dog loves odor. Do something else and let them go do a search for the odor. And I think it's always important to check in with your soft dog and see how they are feeling with what you're doing. We build emotional attachments with everything we teach and do. We need to make sure our dog is not stressed and then we build a positive emotional response with that behavior. I also like to start off my sessions with an energy game. That helps build energy into the training. And one of the simple ones that I like is the two cookie toss. And it's just toss a cookie to the left and send your dog to get it. And as they're eating it, toss the cookie to the right and send your dog to get it. And you're actually building energy. Most of your soft dogs stress down. They don't have the energy to put in the training. And that's just kind of a good start. Ed's first couple nose work trials. I actually did that at the van. You know, I kind of helped just play this cookie game. And you can even do it in your hands. If you have a really small space, just have them bounce back and forth to your hands. It's kind of the idea of just get them moving a little bit so that they can feel it. They can get a little happy because their body's moving. Yeah. I mean, and it's like, and I understand how they feel because a lot of times when I get stressed, like if you do jumping jacks or you jog in place, I mean, it's amazing what it does. Just that little bit of energy really helps get you out of that stress and gets your adrenaline going to be able to do what you're asked to do. So, and I actually have a lecture that I have written for my parkour class that talks about how to deal with soft dogs and a lot of different ideas. Because again, not all dogs are the same and different ones will work different for different dogs. So, it's just a lot of different things to try. A lot of energy gains. I really believe in a mat behavior that the dog has a safe place to go to their mat. Talk about how to train that and what you can use it with. And it is for my parkour class that I end up sharing it in most of my classes.

Because for one, I think people with soft dogs attend my classes for a reason, as well as with nose work and parkour, those classes are set up for soft and stressy type dogs. So, most of them that come in need that lecture. You know, kind of what is it about those sports that make them so good for softer dogs? I mean, you mentioned that they're kind of set up for them. What do you mean by that? For nose work, it's amazing to watch a dog build confidence through nose work. Part of it is we take something that all dogs love to do, sniffing, and we turn it into a highly rewarding behavior. So, it really doesn't take a lot of energy for them to begin. It's just put your nose on this odor and they get lots of cookies. And then we start incorporating a cookie toss. So, it kind of goes back to my other game, but it's kind of a reset. So, then they're driving back because they know as soon as they get into that odor, they get rewarded. So, we build a strong foundation by increasing the value of the odor, which then encourages our dogs to work independently. We also nurture our dogs' excitement for nose work. So, pulling you to the line should not always be discouraged. And this is one of those, know your dog, know your team. I mean, you know, you don't want your dog to pull you down or, you know, it just can't go very fast. You don't want your dog pulling you. But I let Ed pull me. I think it's fabulous because there were times we'd go to other trials. He didn't even want to go to the building. You know, he's like, oh, I can't handle it. And now he's, like, dragging me to the line. And I think it's awesome. So, you know, it's good for us. So, know your team and let your dog do it if you think it's good for your dog. The other thing, too, is nose work classes are set up for only one dog to work at a time. So, the dog doesn't have to worry about the environment. They don't have to worry about where the other dogs are. They can just go in and practice. You can do a lot of both parkour and nose work at home. So, you can do it in the comfort of your own home where they feel safer in the comfort of their own home. So, they don't have to worry about anything else or the environment. And then also, when you go out and you train with friends, only one dog should be out at a time. So, you have lots of opportunities. And when you're out training with your friends, they should understand and they should be able to keep their dogs in the vehicle until it's their turn. So, our dogs no longer focus on the environment, but they focus their energy on finding the odor.

And the other thing I think is really great about nose work is I had talked about keeping a routine for your soft dogs. And nose work is fabulous for a routine. I think everyone in those works should have a good start line routine. And it basically starts at the vehicle or the crate, wherever you're getting your dog. And you have a routine of when you put the harness on, when you put the leash on, what warm-up you do. So, I have a pre-cue as we're going to the search area just to say, hey, this is what we're going to do. And once you hit the start line, I have a place where I stand. Edge has a place where he stands so that he can take in the odor. And they look at it differently than we do. We may look into a search area and go, oh, my gosh, look at all that stuff. They look into a search area and say, where's the scent cone? So, every time they go to a start line, they know they're looking for a scent cone. So, it's all routine for them. So, I think that's another reason of why nose work is fabulous for soft dogs because it's just one long routine. And they don't look at it like we do. And I think the most rewarding part is seeing a dog change over time. So, you have a dog that's not competent and is a little soft or stressy. And then, all of a sudden, you can see the chest come out and you can see the confidence in the body language as they're heading into a search area. And it's just fabulous to see that transformation with your soft dogs. And you just opened a Nisberg Training Academy, didn't you? Yes, I did. And I'm so excited about it. I've always wanted my own training center. It's been a dream for a long time. I've always taught group classes and private classes. And I've done it in a lot of different sports. And then, recently, I've been doing a lot of nose work seminars. And I've been looking for a facility for over a year. But this is a part-time venture for me. So, I was limited on budget. And I live in an area that real estate is very expensive. So, I actually was presented with this great opportunity. And it's, well, like a 30-minute drive from my house, which in Columbus isn't bad. So, I'm like, I have to go for it. It's like it kind of fell in my lap. And it was perfect timing. I took possession on July 1st and then started teaching classes mid-July. So, I am very fortunate that I have great students and great friends. They all gave up their 4th of July weekend to come and help me paint and clean and put down flooring. And so, we had shifts. And people came in and helped. And I was actually took possession on a Saturday. And I was teaching privates on a Thursday. So, we did good.

Yeah, that's quick. I know. I'm so lucky. I had so much wonderful help. But I have a Snoopy sign as you walk in the door. It's a little Snoopy sign that says, welcome to my happy place. And that is definitely true. It's wonderful. Wonderful. And the best part is my building is fabulous for nose work because I have a really nice training arena. And then I have a hot room where I store all of my odor containers. And then I have a cold room, which is for all the non-odor containers. And then I have several rooms that I can work on different interior setups. And I have a suspended hide alley where we have permanent shower rods across the ceiling that we can do suspended hides. And everything I purchased was with nose work in mind. So, I've kind of like my decor is for nose work. And everything has a purpose as far as searching. So, I guess I am truly living the dream now of having my own facility. And it's set up perfect for what we want to do. That sounds great. I mean, that really sounds, I mean, to be able to have both a hot room and a cold room. And, I mean, that just all sounds ideal for what you want. I know. Yeah. It's like it couldn't have been better. Because, you know, if you just had one big open building, that really isn't the best for nose work unless you build a bunch of rooms. Right. Where this was just set up perfect. Yeah. So, it was a great opportunity. That's awesome. I wanted to kind of shift gears a little bit. We've talked a bunch about nose work and a little bit about parkour. I want to dive into the parkour bit a little more. For those who have, like me, seen a little bit about the sport but don't know a lot about what it is, can you explain kind of what it is and how you compete in it? What's involved? Sure. Parkour is also called urban agility as there's different obstacles that are used for climbing, jumping, balancing. As we said, it's another great sport for building confidence, also fitness and teamwork. It can be for a very athletic dog depending on the level, but all dogs can play. Dogs at a novice level can go on to earn their championship because championship and parkour is documenting your journey and your successes. So, you video all your sessions and when you start, you show a video. It's like, oh, see, my dog isn't able to do this yet. They need to build more strength or more confidence. And then you show your journey of how you got there. So, we did something lower and then a little higher. How did you get from point A to point B? So, that's what a parkour championship is. So, it's not who's the fastest or fittest or can jump the highest.

It's documenting your journey and how you took something that they were not able to do for some reason and built on those strengths to get to the finished product. Edge is a big war marauder. He's 100 pounds. So, he did novice parkour. Because of his structure, I would never do any other level with him because I don't think that's safe. But he can do championships. Where BAM, you know, BAM can go all the way. In fact, we're working on expert level with BAM right now. So, but there's something for every dog. So, every dog can play. And they also have, I believe, senior dog or, you know, if your dog has a handicap, you just have to contact the organization, explain it to them, and you can modify some of the obstacles. Because they truly want to make it so everyone can play. And it's also a great sport for fearful or reactive dogs. And, again, it can be done in the comfort of your home. And then as you slowly build skills, you can move those out into the environment. Safety is extremely important in parkour because your dogs are going to be jumping. They're going to be doing high obstacles. They do what's called tic-tacs where it's kind of rebound. It's like a fly ball box rebound, but it's done on a tree or a building. And some dogs can really get up high on their tic-tacs or rebounds. So, we always recommend a back clip harness. Dogs are always spotted. And that's one thing that I highly emphasize in my class is spotting your dog and even how to spot your dog that weighs as much as you do. Because you can do it. You just have to have the proper technique to make sure that you keep your dog safe at all times. There's really no competition in parkour. It's all about the journey and the relationship and good fitness for your dog. And you submit for titles. So, there's different roles and different widths and heights and dimensions on the different obstacles. And that's part of the fun is going out into the environment and finding all these different things. And then you video them and you submit them to the organization. And then they judge them for your title. Between parkour and nose work, it's like a whole different world. Because you're always looking for a great place to search or a great place to climb. And so, you look at everything differently now. You know, we'll take pictures and look what I found here. This would be a great such and such obstacle. But it's fun. It's a lot of fun for the dogs and the people. So, you mentioned the tic-tacs and you mentioned kind of climbing on things and jumping over things.

Are there like general categories of some of the different behaviors you're looking for? Like how does that break down? It's actually obstacles. Okay. So, you have like an over, an under, an in. You have your tic-tacs. Two feet on, four feet on. You do a weight. You do a round. A 10-foot bend. You do what's called a gap jump where they jump from one obstacle to another. And the intensity or the difficulty increases as you go up levels. So, you have training level, which you do not have to do. It's more for young dogs. Because, you know, you don't want anything very high. And it's just to get them introduced to parkour. And then you go to your novice level and you have certain criteria. Yeah. And then as you move to intermediate, then like the balance in a novice, it's the width of the shoulders. But once you go to intermediate, it's half the width of the shoulders. So, they need to be able to walk on an obstacle that's half the width of their shoulders. So, the difficulty of each obstacle increases as you go from novice to intermediate to expert. You mentioned teaching like how to support your dog and kind of that piece for, you know, as part of what you include in your class. Do you want to just share a little more about what you kind of cover in the class you offer? I offer parkour in April and it covers the training, novice, and intermediate levels. And then I have an advanced parkour class that will actually be in October. And it starts back with intermediate and covers expert and championship. Intermediate seems to take the most time to master as your dog will be gaining strength and skills to complete the requirements. So, this level overlaps both classes. And I've had people start in April and then they continue working during the downtime and then come back in October for like the finishing up or the tuning of the actual obstacles. And then normally they're ready to submit their title at that point. My October class last year, we had several intermediate and a couple expert titles that came out of the class. So, that was exciting. I have very detailed step-by-step videos for each of the obstacles. There's dogs at different levels, different size dogs in the videos. And I even took my brother's Vichla strike who's never done parkour before and did all the obstacles with him to show, here's how you do a true beginner dog. So, I could work through some of the issues and I didn't have a dog that already knew the obstacles. So, not only was it fun, but it's been very informative to the class. I also include three to four videos of different dogs showing the finished obstacle.

So, they can see what it looks like with different dogs and different obstacles that's passed and earned a title. And it's a really fun class. And like I said, there's been a lot of titles earned while in the class. The fun part now is I have nose work students taking my parkour class to teach their dogs how to interact with the environment. So, if they have a soft nose work dog that doesn't like to get in the corners or doesn't like to put their feet up on things, now they're bringing them into parkour to teach them parkour to carry over into their nose work training, which I think is absolutely fabulous. And so, I keep teasing that I'm going to have to offer a nose work parkour class and just combine the two together. So, and I, it's funny because I have to be careful now when I place hides and look because my dogs have like jumped up on something very high above the hide if they have access to it now that they have those parkour skills. So, again, it makes you look at the world totally different than you did in the past. Rather than just try and indicate that something's up high, they'll just be like, eh, well, there's something here. I'll just go up there and find out. Absolutely. I'll just go put my nose on it. That's great. It's funny because one of my students, I think it was in my very first parkour class, she messaged me after and she said, I need you to add something to your class. She said, please warn people that once they've taught them parkour, when they go out on walks, they need to watch their dog isn't jumping on things. And I mean, she meant it in a good way. She's like, I take my dogs on walks and they want to jump on this and jump on that. She's like, it's fabulous, but it caught me off guard. So I added that to my class. It's like, be careful because parkour happens everywhere. Yep. That's great. So I want to finish up with kind of the three questions I ask everybody who comes on. So the first one is, what is the dog-related accomplishment that you are proudest of? That's tough. I think it would almost have to say I would have one per dog. Each of my dogs have different goals and different accomplishments. And it's all about the relationship and getting there. It's not about the outcome, but it's what you build along the way. I'll let you share one per dog. You could do that. For Edge, with his soft dog style, his very first nose work trial, it wasn't surprising to me that he went in and he had very subtle indications. It's like, you know, he looked and saw where everybody was. And he kind of put his nose toward it and rolled his eyes at me.

And knowing it very well, it's like I knew where it was. That was fine. We did great. So then we went into our nose work to trial. And the hide was in a really short stool and it was kind of between a couch and a furnace. And he indicated on it and felt that I didn't call it fast enough. And he took his call and he slung the stool across the room. And, you know, it was like, yay, wow, look at him. You know, I was so excited. I mean, this was my soft dog slinging a stool across the room. And my friends were like, well, what if he got disqualified? I'm like, Edge slung a stool across the room in a trial. So it's just, I mean, that, I mean, it always brings tears to my talking about it because that was just awesome for him that he felt that comfortable and that confident to do something like that. So, you know, again, it's not about the outcome, but it's our journey and our process getting there. So that was just very, very exciting. And then the other, I had a father-son Weimaraner team. I co-bred the litter. And so I had a, he was a confirmation champion. I had a homebred champion. And, but they were, they are two of the only three USDAA at Weimaraners. And it was just really thrilling to have a father-son team that I bred competing at national events and, you know, competing at higher levels. And again, all about the journey. It was just so fun being able to do that with them and what we were able to accomplish. And just the memories on that journey. So, but I feel very blessed to have all, all the awesome dogs in my life that I have. And each and every one of them has taught me something different. So I think they all come into our lives for a reason. And they've all taken me different paths and made lots of wonderful memories along the way. Right. So our second question, and this is usually one of my favorite ones of the podcast, is what's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? I think this kind of goes hand in hand, but I think we need to let the dog make a decision and trust your dog. And I remember this way back in my agility days, you know, this was like in the early 90s, I think. Everyone was trying to control what the dog did, you know, especially on the contacts. And I was fortunate enough to work with Linda Mecklenburg at that time. And she's like, let the dog decide. Let them take ownership. You know, so way back when it was let the dog make a decision. Let them take some responsibilities. And when you allow that to happen, it's amazing the teamwork because you're not stressed trying to micromanage them.

And they're not stressed because they're being micromanaged. So it becomes more teamwork than controlling. But I think humans try to be so controlling and always want to tell their dog what to do. And we need to let our dogs make the decisions and accept responsibility. And again, I think this goes hand in hand with those who are accepting what I'm always telling people. Let the dog make the decision. And I love thinking dogs. I love dogs that think outside the box and work through problems. And I just love working with thinking dogs. So our last question is about other people in the dog world. So who is somebody else that you look up to? There have been so many that have helped inspire me along the way. And I think I take pieces of advice and put things together for what I need to do for my dogs. It seems like they all come into my life when I need them most. Or maybe I go and seek them out when I need something. I think probably what's helped me the most with where I am with my dogs right now would be Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed. That just, before I found Nosework, that really helped me a lot with Edge. And you should see my book. It's like every page has a sticky in notes. It's a little used book. But it almost seems like the book was written specifically for Edge. I mean, it was amazing. And I've now used a lot of those with Bam. And I recommend a lot of her protocols with my students. But I think that has been very important in Edge's success. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Melissa. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Heather Lawson to discuss the importance of life skills for competition dogs. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzie Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzie for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. Thank you. Thank you.