E65: 헤더 로슨(Heather Lawson) - "턱 레스트, 플랫폼, 그리고 플라이, 오 마이 갓!"

And then I started to turn it into a whole bunch of other things and realize that I can use it for my cooperative care, which is your veterinary care and anything else that I have to do with the dogs. So when I'm, you know, for instance, administering medication to ears or eyes or anything like that, I can just ask for a nice, easy chin rest and I can apply the medications and it's no fuss, no mess. My dogs are used to putting their head in the chin. And I can also, as I said, use it for confirmation. So when I've got Piper in a show and I need to settle her down or to stack her for presentation to the judge, I can just hold my hand out and she puts her chin there and I can move her back and forth or, you know, keep her in position while I appropriately stack her legs and get her ready for examination. It also allows me to put out my hand for her to put her chin on for the judge to take a look at her mouth. And so she keeps her head there nice and quiet and I can lift up the lips and then actually I've even taught her to open her mouth on cue and he can take a look nice and easy and he doesn't have to put his hands into her mouth. The other thing that I like the chin rest for is teaching the concept of holding still. Once I've taught the chin rest or even a nose or a nose target, duration nose target, I find that once the dog understands that concept of holding their nose or their chin rest somewhere, they actually can translate holding still to many other behaviors that I need them to do. I can also use it for the dumbbell hold by using the chin rest for the dog to place their chin as they grip the bar of the dumbbell and it's an easy, just a slight holding up and it teaches them quiet and allows me to gradually decrease my hand from that position. I can actually turn that chin rest into a nice close front as well. Teaching Piper, this is the first one I've used in with, for the chin rest for the fronts, with, with Piper is I wanted her nice and close, right up touching me. And so I got her to target my hand and then I just transferred it onto my body. And now when she comes in for her, for her fronts, she is 90, 90% straight most of the time. So we're still, we're still working on it, but she's 90% straight most of the time. And she's close. Okay. So she just puts her hand up. And at this point she is touching me, but that's fine. I will take the points if she continues to touch me in, in a trial situation. But generally that will kind of back off a little bit when you, when you get different kinds of, you know, ring stress and things like that involved.

The dogs usually don't come in quite as close sometimes, but I'm going to still keep her, keep her working at that. So that's basically what I do with my chin rest. I got all different kinds of things that I can use it for. Especially anybody who's ever trained a German Shepherd knows that getting the dog in nice and close can be a little harder than with some other breeds. Well, space sensitivity and whatnot. So yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that's why, you know, teaching her, it also like, like the chin rest was a really great exercise to teach her just overall handling. So she's not afraid of anybody coming in and doing all these different kinds of things that they need to do to her because I've got that chin rest and she trusts that chin rest and she trusts that I'm not going to let anything, you know, negative happen to her. And it allows me to do that much more with her. So would you mind just taking one of those examples and maybe walking us through it in a little more detail, breaking it down a little bit, how the chin rest helps you get that end behavior? Okay. Well, since I'm doing team two at the moment, and it seems to be a bugaboo for everybody. What I like to use the chin rest for is, as I mentioned earlier, just the dumbbell hold. So I teach the, the dumbbell take with teeth on it and with just a little bit of a tiny grip separately, obviously. And then if I've got a little bit of a problem with say, for instance, trying to shape the dog to hold it even more, I can turn around and take that chin rest and I get the chin rest separately on its own. And I can turn around and take that chin rest and add it to the dumbbell hold. So what I do is I will hold my flat hand as if I'm asking for a chin rest, hold the dumbbell just up above it. And as the dog comes in to take that, take the bar on the dumbbell, I can just hold my hand up a little bit more, give that a little bit of a hold, hold, get stillness. And it allows me to mark stillness. That seems to be the hardest part for everybody to get is that initial stillness. And by using the chin rest behavior and adding it to the dumbbell take, it allows you to progress onto a really good hold from that point. I know another tool that you've mentioned you use a number of different ways is a platform. So I was hoping we could get into that and talk about platforms a little bit. What kind of things can you use a platform to teach? Oh, gosh. Um, there is so much that you can in it. And it also, again, it depends on the on the type of platform.

But so for instance, if many people have difficulty in trying to create distance, and to have their their their dogs actually anchored at that distance, say, for instance, you're sending out on your utility go out. Um, lots of times your dogs will will go out and then they'll turn around when you say sit, and they walk in three or four paces. That's not so good. So a platform can help to keep them out to that anchored spot. You can use a platform for fronts, again, depending on the type of platform you're using, you can use it to teach heel position. Uh, you can teach, um, change of position, um, and precision using using the platform. So if I'm wanting to teach my dog, different positions in heel position, such as a sit stand down all in parallel, having a narrow platform for them to perform those behaviors on helps them remain in that parallel position. And then of course, gradually you fade it out. If I want to teach my dogs to go out to a specific spot, um, anywhere I can place platforms and a variety of platforms, and I can do directional sends. Um, and because they're, they're heavily magnetized to them. Um, and by magnetized, I mean, they get a, have a huge reinforcement history on the platforms. They are just raring to go because that's, that's what they, they want to do is they want to get their food. Um, I use platforms a lot when I'm teaching, um, outside of, um, say obedience, um, things I use it for, um, a stationing behavior. So teaching stays and things like, um, when I'm doing some of my concept classes where the dog has to return to a station and wait for their next direction. So it helps the dog when they're not getting any direction from you, they return back to station or to platform. If somebody out there listening is used to teaching something like a front or a heel position without a platform, what are some of the advantages of using one? Or maybe even if they've already taught those positions going back and then teaching that platform skill later on, if they say taught a front without it. So say for instance, you've got, um, you know, the issue of the dog, maybe not coming in all the way. So you can turn around and use a smaller platform to get a smaller, tighter sit in front. Um, you can use a foot to target type of a little, little tiny platform to bring the dog in closer. Um, if you've got a dog that tends to be quite footsy, say for instance, in, in heel position, when you're doing your stands, you can, um, use the platform to teach them how to remain still and not move forward.

If you, if you don't normally teach with a platform, sometimes giving the dog something different allows them to grasp the concept. You know how sometimes a student will hear something from you numerous times and you're going over and over and over. I told you that before I've told you that before. And then somebody will come along and say, Oh, why don't you do this? And it's the exact same thing that you told them, but just slightly different. And they go, Oh, did you know so-and-so told me to do this? And you're going, Oh yeah, that's what I was trying to tell you. Well, sometimes I think by changing your equipment or changing how you present a particular, um, concept to your dog, sometimes that's what helps the dogs take that leap and, and get more precise or understand the position or understand the concept that they're not to move. And I think by going back and maybe even, uh, taking a look at the platforms and seeing how you could help convey that concept, you're going to get, um, more precision later on. Are platforms and foot targets basically the same thing? Can you use them in the same ways? I'd love to hear a little bit about maybe what you can or can't do with one that you could do with the other. With the platforms, they're generally longer. Uh, so the length of the dog, so that if say, for instance, you put the dog down in a, in a Sphinx down, the dog would not be hanging off the edges. Um, and they're, the platforms are generally quite narrow so that again, when the dog either sits or lies down, they are in a very, very specific position. Foot targets, um, are dealing with just the plant, just the front feet or just the rear feet. They're not the same thing, but they can do the same job. If that makes sense. When I want to fade out a large platform, I will go down to a foot target. Um, with foot targets, I generally can use, uh, if the foot target is low, I can generally use them for, uh, fading out the platform and, uh, teaching the dog. If I'm teaching, say, for instance, um, position changes, you know, you go down to a small foot target or even a flat foot target. And now you can ask your dog to change positions. I like to use, um, my foot targets that I usually recommend for people to use are generally like a size of a two by four and generally no wider than what your dog can actually put their two front feet on comfortably and stand in a normal position. If you're, especially if you're teaching nice, close fronts, the dog comes and puts their feet on that front target. They can then sit properly.

If you use a round foot target, like a perch that we use for, for pivoting, you'll find that the dogs kind of have a rear end, um, splay and they can't sit as, and they therefore won't sit as straight as they should be. So, um, you know, when I'm, when I'm working distance and I want to get rid of the big platforms, um, yeah, I'll go down to a foot target. So it's, it's basically just a, a mini, a mini platform basically, but we call them foot targets because it makes more sense to people. Right. What are some of the different types of platforms or targets that you use and some of the different ways that you use them? The long, narrow platforms basically are for position. As I said, either straight in heel position or straight out in front of you. Same thing with the foot targets. They are used for the front and the rear feet and then your perch. And I like to use a round perch when I'm first teaching the dog how to use their rear end for pivoting. Later on, if I'm working with the handler for footwork, I'll use a small square so that you can do, um, quarter turns to teach the dog also to turn with your body language and it gets the handler ready for their, their footwork and how they're going to use their, their body to turn their dog. If I'm want to do a really nice tight sit in front and still use a platform because say, for instance, the dog is coming off crooked, then I'll use a shorter, um, platform more so, so that the dog only, the only thing the dog can do is basically sit on this little platform. So you get a nice tuck sit, um, and you can then get straight. Also too, you can teach the dogs, um, with the platforms, um, you know, for the various things you can teach them, whether or not you want to have a default stand on a platform or whether or not you want a default sit on the platform. And for long platforms, I usually look for a default of a stand. If I'm using a small, um, rectangular platform, I'm looking for a default of a sit foot targets. I look for a default of a stand on that foot target and the same thing, a default, um, of a, uh, stand on the, on the perch as well. So I think a lot of people may recognize how valuable a platform behavior can be, but they don't want to haul all those different platforms, um, everywhere they train. So can you use the same platform for more than one skill? How does that work? Oh, you certainly can. Um, and as I said, with, uh, say the long platform, you can, you can certainly use it for a whole variety of, of, of skills and, and behaviors, positions. You just have to be very careful that you're encouraging the dog, you know, based on the

behavior you're training. So if you're looking for a front, you want to make sure that your dog has learned to plant their front feet as close to you as possible, and then bring their scooch, their rear end. So you're getting a nice little tuck sit versus, you know, standing. And then you're saying sit and they rock back. And now you've got, you know, a foot and a half distance between you and the dog. You want to get that up as close. So you certainly can. Some people actually make platforms where they can split them off so that you've got, say a shorter platform for the sit and a longer platform that you can attach to it with Velcro that makes for, um, you know, the, the long platform that you need. And then you can take the Velcro and split it apart. And now you've got a short sit platform. I know I've done that a couple of times. I've made one like that and, uh, they're easy to make easy to, to haul around. I mean, the platforms really aren't all that heavy. You can, you can really make some very, very lightweight ones. You just got to use your imagination. They're mostly made out of that, that, um, interlocking foam mats. My foot target for, um, for my dogs is actually a cork, uh, yoga brick that is generally, I think they're about four inches high normally. Um, and I just went and cut it down on the saw and cut it in half. So now I have like about a two inch high, um, small little cork platform that is heavy enough that the dog's not going to tip it, but it's not so heavy that I can't, you know, cart it around somewhere. It's just weighs less than a pound of butter, but it's, it's easy to just sort of chuck in my car and it's no big deal. So an upturned food bowl, right? You know, if you're, if you've got your dogs in your car, uh, stainless steel food bowl works for a perch. You can use, definitely use your, your equipment for a variety of different things, but most people can be discouraged by the fact that they, they do think that they have to carry a lot of stuff around, but, but most of the stuff, if you look, you know, what your regular gear is, you can interchange a whole lot of things. So one of the other behaviors I wanted to talk through, you know, I think that maybe people don't immediately grasp the, uh, the importance of, right. Is the team test behavior of a fly or a behavior that teaches a dog to go out and around an object to start out before we kind of get into the uses, um, for anybody who isn't familiar with behavior, can you describe a little bit of the criteria for it, um, in the team test?

Okay. So for the fly, um, the handler needs to send the dog around an object. It can be anything from a cone to a pole to a garbage can to a chair. It doesn't really matter as long as it's placed five feet away or more. Um, and the purpose, uh, is to teach the dog to go out and around and to work at a distance. So this is obviously useful for more advanced exercises. You can also actually use the cone to teach the dog how to find front and or heel position from variety of angles. Um, especially if you're on the move with healing, basically, uh, the handler stands five feet from the cone and cues the dog from heel position. Dog must be in, must start in heel position, which can be standing or sitting. They can send them with any combination of your hand, your arm verbal and, or even a forward foot motion is acceptable. Um, and the exercise begins after the handler cues the dog and then ends when the dog has circled the object 180 degrees. So that means the dog must go out to the cone, circle it and be on their way back. And then as soon as they're on their way back to you, that ends the exercise. So it's not hard at all. It's just making sure that, you know, you're getting the dog to go out with one cue and that you're not moving until after the dog has basically come around the crest of the cone and it's on their way back. So it's, it's pretty, it's a pretty easy exercise to do. It can be used for a whole bunch of things. Um, and if you want to go into that, we can, we can cover that too. Absolutely. That's my next question for you is, uh, you know, what is it meant to teach? Okay. So it's meant to teach, um, as I said, distance work, it's also used, it can be used to, um, teach your dog how to stride out after a broad jump. I don't know if you're, if you've ever seen the dogs that kind of cut the corner of the broad jump and, and you think, oh my God, they're going to slip. They're going to fall. Um, I've seen that happen where the dog has, and the only reason that they want, they, they cut the corners is basically as they want to get back to you as soon as possible and get to that front position. So in order to get them to take two, at least two strides out, you can use a cone placed, um, out in front of your broad jump as a way to pattern that two stride out by asking the dog to, to jump and then fly. Most people use the, the word fly or, um, away or around. You can teach the dog to go out, take those two strides and then turn and come back to you. And that eliminates that broad jump injury. Okay. You can also, um, put the cones out in the

beginning stages of teaching your directed jumping. So you can teach the dog how to go straight center and have a cone on either side. And it gets them used to coming around at a, at an angle, uh, without, you know, interfering with your actual jumps or putting your jump stanchions out as you're working through those initial stages. You can also teach your dog to go out and around and especially over a high jump. Uh, if you want the dog to go out around the cone and come directly back over the high jump without going around the high jump after they picked up their dumbbell, which so often happens. You can also use it as a way to bring down a dog and give them a brain break when you're healing. So if you have a couple of cones placed out, um, and you're going to be doing some healing and it's going to be a little bit of a, uh, maybe you're working on something that's a little bit more difficult for the dog. And all of a sudden you can send them off to a fly. They can go out, run around the fly, and then they come back up and catch you in heel position. So you can make more of a game out of your healing. You can send them over the jump, over the fly, come back to you. And if you take the cone and you use it instead of just going out and around the cone and coming straight back to you, you can actually teach the dogs to do really tight two seventies, um, in either left or right direction. And that you can do by, um, by either shaping it, clicking it, or what I normally do to start the dogs off is I will send them and then I will, whichever direction I'm going, um, to send them. So if I'm sending them from my left and they're coming around and they're going to end up on my right, I will take off to my left. And all of a sudden now I've got a really nice tight two 70 to the left and the opposite way to 70 to the right. And you can get them going around the cones more than once. You can add multiple cones, uh, which actually is a way to introduce, um, figure eights. You can stand in the middle and send your, your dog on their own figure eight. So they're going cones, um, doing a clover leaf or any other types of things. And it, um, gets them used to working around, um, an inanimate object. And then for me, what I do is I have these little, uh, uh, uh, scarecrow people that I then stand in my cones and then I will send the dog out and around the cone. So they get used to funny things that they have to work around. And I think it would be helpful if I'm not mistaken. You do, um, what's the, try ball out tray ball. Yes. Okay. You could

probably use it to teach your dogs how to go out and away to your left or your right and straight out if you needed to. So I'm sure that, you know, if people are doing sports like that, or even, uh, if you're doing agility, teaching your dogs to, to go for directional cues, um, you know, cones are excellent because they're not interfering, um, with your actual jumps and it's just teaching them directional cues. So that's certainly a lot of different ways. I know I can, I can probably come up with more too, but it's just some of the things that are on the top of my head. But my biggest one for me is, uh, for my own personal uses, I like to teach the dog to, to stride out a couple of steps after that broad jump, because I've seen dogs, um, be badly hurt because they've slipped on floors. Um, and you know, if you're working a dog and you're campaigning a dog and they're jumping and they're doing the broad jump over and over and over again, that's a lot of concussion and twisting on that right one right front leg when they land. So if they can start to land, start to go out straight, take a stride or two and go around and then come back to you, that's much better for their health and long-term working ability. So one last question for you, Heather, are there other behaviors that are super versatile, like the chin rest and platforming and even the send around an object behavior? Well, as it pertains to team, there's all kinds of little behaviors that people don't really realize, um, how much they're going to affect as you go through team. So, you know, if you're, if you're familiar with team, which I know you are, there's, you know, 10 behaviors in the very beginning. And then as you get further on, um, you've got more precision, you're actually using all of those little behaviors that you learned in the very beginning. So in the, in the beginning of team, we're very, um, precision oriented. Uh, and then as you get further on in team, we're less precision, but we, and we take that because we know that you've, you've learned how to, to teach your dog, the platform, you've learned how to use the equipment, you've learned how to fade the equipment. You've learned how to use the core, the foundation behaviors in the very beginning, such as targeting and sending out in a way, um, bringing your dog into heel position, finding front, all of these things. And no matter which way you go in obedience, you're going to use all of those different pieces. So it, it's kind of like, there's not really sort of one super behavior.

It's just that they're all super versatile. And I think what throws a lot of people off is that, hey, well, I've got to learn all these behaviors or I'm never going to get this. And it really, once you've got the core foundations, you can pretty much do anything you want. You should be able to step into almost any kind of dog sport, take a look at what they have and what they're doing, and then take what you've learned with your, with your send outs, your targeting, your sends, your, your holds, your, um, you know, come into heel, come into front, um, and apply them to those specific behaviors that were required for that dog sport. So for, for me, um, you know, versatile, like the chin rest platforms, and even send around an object, I use those all the time to teach the precision that I need so that I can now apply that and teach that concept. I'll say, I'll say to my dog, okay, you know, that target thing that I kept sending you out to, well, now I need you to go out there and I need you to stay out there while I go this distance away from you. And the dogs are quite comfortable to do that because they have, as I said, that reinforcement history on those pieces of equipment. And when I take them away, it's not a big deal because I've gradually decreased their, their requirement for those, for those pieces of equipment and shown them that, yes, you can still do this, even though I'm, I'm maybe fading the equipment out for you so that when we finally do get to the final exercise, they understand it completely. There's no holes. And if I have a problem, I've got something to go back to. I can take out that little piece. I can pull up that platform. I can show my dog again, what I need from them and show them that, yep, you can do that. Remember that thing that I taught you way back when I need you to apply it here and I need you to do it this way. And it's kind of like a little refresher. If I glossed over all of that and didn't use those bits and pieces and put that foundation into place, I'd have nothing to be able to work with. And I'd have to go back to square one each and every time I had a problem. This way, all I need to do is pull out a little bit and then reinsert it again. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, Heather. Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you very much for having me. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We will be back next week with Amanda Nelson to discuss introducing distance into our agility training. If you haven't already subscribed to

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