에피소드 32: Dean Calderon

But. But. I've contributed a little bit to a future. Okay. For sure. And if you and if you want to stay and I always I've told this to people. You know back in the old days Ivan people fought us about going to the world championship. Should USA have any kind of funding for the team. And I'm like dude. You want to stay isolated on this continent. That's what you want to do. That is your glory. Topeka Kansas. Give me a break. Come on. Don't you have any goals. Don't you have any aspirations. I mean come on. And this is what IGP will bring you. Okay. First of all. There's a world of great trainers out there. And by. And by having that goal of trying to strive to a world championship. You meet people. You meet great trainers. You meet good things in your life. Don't stay isolated upon this continent. Okay. And plus our sport encompasses three things. Not just one. Not just with this. And there's so much more than meets the eye on our sport too. People really need to understand the why force about our sport. And more than that. More than that. 40 years from now. Good dogs ain't going to come from whatever initials you want to put on back of that dog's name. Good dogs will come from IGP dogs of today. That's where they'll come from. I'm sorry. Ask me something else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. This is. Man. People really. People. You know. They really. Again. I want you to have fun with our. And our sport is hard. It's a hard sport. It's fucking the hardest sport ever. You know. You gotta. You take it on the chin. You know. I go out there and I see the new handlers. And bless these guys heart. They just. You just get. Take it on the chin. You know. It's a tough sport. But you ask me something. I'll shut up. No. No. You're the one that needs to talk. But it's definitely the hardest sport. Yes. It is. I cannot. Like. That's another beautiful thing about our sport. Maybe the most beautiful thing is our sport is competitive. And anything in human nature you're competitive at you get better at. World records are broken every day. Okay. I've been training dogs. I'm an old man forever. Dog training has gotten so much better. The dogs have gotten so much better. Okay. And really our sport because of the multi aspects. It's three things. It's really the cutting edge of all of this. It's all of this. You know. It's. It's. You know. I don't watch like I used to. I don't. I don't watch like I used to. But it's really important that the judges. You know. The judges set the standard of what you. What is to be done on the field. Okay.

And they must maintain this idea of the performance obedience. The obedience must be exact. But the dog must be happy. He must be in drive. Okay. He must be. Okay. And with that we're always going to have a good path. You know. Always. Anyway. Go ahead. So. I know we. I mean we have to go over a lot of things. But. Well. For the people. Because I have an audience that kind of. I mean I started the podcast fairly soon. And I have an audience that is from all different areas of dog training. You know. Super. Super. So. We go. We go. You and I go very far back. Well. You wanted me to tell some old stories. You want me to tell you the story. The time the dog bit me in the dick. Fuck. That was a classic one. Ivan first comes to California. Okay. And he wants to train his dog. Because he has a Malinois. Like in those days nobody had a Malinois. You know. And I had. And I had worked. You know. I had seen him. I had worked with him a little bit. Anyway. So the dog came around the blind and bit me in the leg or something. Okay. So then there was a trial in Fresno. Yeah. In Fresno. Yeah. In Fresno. Yeah. Okay. So we go down there. You know. And people had never seen. Like a Malinois. Really. No one had a Malinois. You know. So the dog's running the blinds. And he's running the blinds. I'm talking to the people. I said. You got to be careful about these Malinois. When they come around. They'll bite you in the leg. And sure enough. A little dog came down and nailed me. Right in my crotch. That was a good one. But anyway. That was an amazing story. And this was. Man. This was me kind of fucking up. Because. You know. I came. I came from Belgium. And I did some Belgian rings. So it was. I was still transitioning. The dog from leg bites to sleep. So it was going sideways. And I felt so bad. Oh my God. But that. That's one of the many. Many cool stories we have. And. And I. I. Have to say. How. How I found you man. That was. You know. There was at the time. We're talking early 90s. There was a magazine. Dog Sports magazine. Yeah. Right. I can't remember. What was the guy's name. He was in. Mike McCowan. Yes. He was. He was in. Vallejo. Right. I mean. You know. I'm an old guy. But really. He. For instance. He started. Shutts in USA magazine. He's the one that laid out that format for the magazine. He published other magazines too. That was his business. But he laid out the format for that magazine. And because of that magazine. There was so much growth in the beginning. Oh yeah. No question. Advertising. And that's an issue that the clubs nowadays have no idea

what they're doing. How to promote our sport. My God. It just makes. I'm not. It makes me sick. Yeah. I don't know. They just. They just walk around like. Duh yoi. You know. I mean. Come on. But anyway. That's an. I mean. I could talk about that for a long time. Okay. Why is it the number six blind. Sold. The rights. The number six blind. It's a national. So. You can put your company's logo on number six blind. 500 bucks. You know. Freddy's. Cleaners. Freddy's. Healing Club. Whatever you want to put. Yeah. The hurdle. It's sold to. Fifteen hundred dollars. Your company logo there. Two thousand dollars. Okay. Yeah. You know. So if I'm on this tangent. This is an old man's most beautiful dream. And God. I have this dream so bad. And actually. Johannes Graeva was the first one to put this dream in my mind. I would love so much for USA to have like a national headquarters somewhere like in. And think about it folks. I'm not saying this because I live in Ohio. But really somewhere like Ohio or Indiana. Illinois is kind of hot. Those places land is still cheap. Okay. And you can. And you have. You can have a mid-site city. Buy a piece of property outside of the place. Have it as USA headquarters. Have it as the most friendly dog place in America. You can rent that place out. You can have the USA office there. You can have an indoor facility. The nationals and all those events should travel around. Absolutely. But every couple of years here you got. You got the perfect facilities. All these other clubs who need a place. Less and less and less. There's less places to show your dog. Okay. But if. Man it's my dream for USA to have a place like this. I thought it was once in a while there is that conversation. It comes up in a conversation. But it seems like it gets told. It never goes further than that. Well our leadership has. You know. And again I'm an asshole. But all those guys who want to do that. It's funny to me. And it's good. I like that we have leadership that wants to train dogs. That's a good thing. But maybe they're only lost in that. Maybe that's all they're saying is that team. Okay. And. But anyway. Let me go back to that dog sports magazine. Because I. I want to tell everybody how. How we met. And so. So. I go back. I come. I come to the States. I'm an electrician. I'm like okay I'm gonna find a job. I start looking around. It's just very hard to find a job. Especially as an electrician. And the voltage is different. Everything is different. The codes. I get a job at Guide Dogs for the Blind.

Oh cool. And from there. Because I was. I was trying. As you were talking. I was trying to think how in the hell I got my hands on dog sports magazine. Because I didn't. When I came I didn't know nobody. So it was from somebody from the guide dog school that handed me that magazine. The very first magazine that I got Dean. You were on the cover. You. You. Duffy. And what was your girlfriend at the time. You. Man you had all this. Penny. Penny McGinnis. Cool girlfriends always. Yeah. Yeah. So. Penny was great. Yeah. You Penny and Duffy. On the cover. Right. Each one of you holding a blind. I wish I had this. Because that was a cornerstone of my evolution. You know. And the big title on the cover was. Next time in the park near you. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what you guys were doing. And I'm like oh wow there's people that do it. now I need to find out which park are we talking about so what I had to do I went to Vallejo I had to talk to the guy and somehow I think I don't know was it Contra Costa was it somewhere I found you exactly like that you guys just drove in put up the lights and everybody lined up and we had an amazing time and I was like okay this is this is my house it just felt felt perfect but that's how far we go now I I wanna like because you man you've you've done IGP and shoot school with quite a few different dogs but from where I remember it was Rottweilers and it was you and Wayne Simanovic and it was I mean you you guys were really doing it with Rottweilers and it was a big deal and you were competitive with everybody it wasn't like how it's today you know the the breeds are some breeds are going out unfortunately and and that's a different conversation but tell me about your Rottweiler time because that's a that was an interesting time well anyway I I really want to first thing say but believe me uh my dogs are German Shepherd dogs okay before the Rottweiler time real quick I'm not gonna go into all that 1979 I was hot champ into USA Nationals with my German Shepherd dog Anando did many great things but with the Rottweiler deal okay on the 90s it was a Rottweiler craze everybody had to have one okay there uh also too you know I've made all these were I've made 20 world teams with three different breeds of dogs I've never owned any of those dogs people give me dogs pay me dogs money to train dogs okay that's what I do that's what I did then I was really one of the first persons to do I don't know how to do anything I'll you know what I'm saying if my tire if my car is has a flat

tire riding I gotta call somebody if that toilet don't work in this house I gotta call I don't know how to do anything this is what I know to do plus I've been very frank ever since I was a young guy I don't like to be told what to do okay I'm just I'm just I'm different that way okay I don't I don't play well with others I don't exist in a company format uh but anyway let me get back to it anyway with the Rottweilers uh it was a Rottweiler craze okay uh uh dogs weren't expensive all dogs in general weren't expensive in those days as they are now okay and what happened with Rottweilers in America for instance okay uh one of the first Rottweiler World Championships was like 1991 or 92 I forgot okay and we went there an American guy won it a guy named he trained in our club South County Schutzen Club guy named Ron Gordon he won that thing okay and the American team I mean they robbed us they had to rob us to make sure those Germans won but why did that happen anyway with the Rottweilers uh that Rottweiler World Championship that first one that was a really that's a lot of great stories about that Wayne was on the team uh Ron Gordon who won the Rottweiler World Championship a woman named Sue Borgen really good Rottweiler really good Rottweiler protection uh twice I've been the helper at the Nationals only twice I was I was maybe taken down and that fucking Rottweiler almost took me down on the long one he almost took me down but no that was a great team and and again to think of about Rottweilers in the 90s you know there was people who wanted them who would pay money to good trainers to train them there was an interest in that uh later on after that two years later we won the Rottweiler World Championship in Austria okay and we did I had a different dog a tremendous I didn't own him very well-to-do real estate developer owned the dog his name was Arco tremendous animal I mean you know um I've been very blessed in my life that I've you know trained good dogs of all breeds and there's good dogs in every breed okay and I was so happy you know that I watched a little bit the FCI and there was an Airedale doing protection yes two of them this time and the I only saw the long bite on one of the Airedales and it was really nice and let me say something before that too the helper was very fair in giving the dog a chance to demonstrate his good what he's a good boy you know what I'm saying there was no Mickey Shiki stupid-ass shit you know and maybe the dog wasn't a rocket ship or all this other stuff but the dog did it really nice from gripping to outing to everything okay and also the

helper allowed the dog to do this yes allow them that's very good point how you're saying that very you know and uh um uh but anyway back in the day with the Rottweilers you know it was just people you know they had had money and you know what did I do I took well many of them three of them or three or four of them to Rottweiler World Championship and all this other stuff the best one I ever I had the first one I ever had was Alf Hamburger Michael was his name tremendous animal little quick story I won the regionals in California with him and in those days northern California we would kick your ass oh this was a place you know and when I won that regionals there was an SV judge first he said to me I've never seen a says how did you get that Rottweiler to work like that I've never seen a Rottweiler do that shit and then Ivan you know two months later uh just like three weeks before the Rottweiler World Championship I was training him and it was like perfect in training for those days and people got to understand that context exactly really good and any sport you always got to understand that context okay but the the dog was mechanically correct doom doom doom doom doom doom but I could see something was wrong okay and I went to do a seminar and I told Penny go get him checked out Penny calls me goes Dean uh uh we got bad news here this dog's got a can't he's got a tumor in his leg and he's got his leg cut off and I'm like what and this is like two weeks before the world championship with this dog and anyway that was maybe the best one I ever had but in the 90s there was a lot of good there was a on that Rottweiler team that won the Rottweiler World Championship is a really good trainer named Mitzi I wish I remember Mitzi I don't remember her last name but she was a really good dog trainer and uh uh no in those days again you know they were again there was an interest there so you know there was there was good Rottweilers you know you know it's one of the reasons I'm an old beat-up man from all those Rottweilers I worked in those days but you know yeah that's for sure but but listen I really want to say something to you like right now I have a Doberman okay yes and I'm very happy with my Doberman and I can't wait for the future to come I mean I'm like just biting it a bit but that's a Doberman number two because you just you know yeah I mean actually it's farther than that but it after my last one which was really good but what I'm saying is is is because and I think of this too I think it's because of the training is so good with around the world because people can learn

because the internet you know I'm saying and you see good training every place really good understanding of the dogs and consequently uh that I I see I mean I don't go nowhere I don't see nothing but a little bit I see I see some good dogs I see some good Dobermans I see some good Mallies you know and of course you see good Shepherds Rotties they're not so popular now so anyway yeah and uh and the boxers went away yeah you know it's it's again you never see those breeds it's it's it's uh you know it's it's it's hard in America with our our sport is demanding it's it's it's a lot easier to follow you want to enjoy your your dog you want to do a biting sport okay a lot of them maybe are a little bit easier to do than ours and speaking of the Shepherds you you're national champion uh you've i mean bunch times podium bunch like i don't even know how many times you've been to world championships like we have shared we have shared the podium quite a few times yes Ivan and I tried at the nationals one year okay he was first and I was second okay he had his Malamon I had my dog Rex and it was right after 9 11 and it was one of the beautiful moments in my life is I loved my dog Rex he was so beautiful and he was a mean little son of a bitch too also he was really cool you crazy little bastard he was a cold dog those those cathago dogs can be uh I'll tell you this story about Rex let me tell you another story about Rex uh for anyone when I got done in obedience it was right after 9 11 you know and if people got to remember what the world was like then okay and it was a really cold clear night October night in Boston and the sun was going down I got done with my obedience and I coming back to the crowd and the joy on the people's faces the applause not not me not about me the happiness my dog brought to those people my god I was just like man this is the coolest thing this is the cool and I remember there's a couple ladies and they were just clapping so happy you know I mean that was a really cool deal that was a really cool deal those were I mean man they were interesting times and I don't know why I mean we will never probably know why and how things change but like there there was a and I don't know maybe we're just too old thinking but and looking at the old times in this through a good lens always I mean remember how big the trial was remember remember helper tryouts I mean this was as as big event as the competition itself yeah yeah I mean yeah you know you know I mean I I know uh I know a little about what you're talking about right now and again I don't I'm not a

hanger outer I don't go so much now no more okay but I know back in the day first of all man I can remember on uh Saturday night okay at the nationals the parties we would have the parties yes I mean we would party to you know we would party to five I don't know what kids do nowadays maybe they take to get tattoos and go to sleep I don't know but man you know the parties would go on forever you know and I mean and uh uh some things have gotten better you know I can I have thoughts about helper tryouts too you know about that uh um um I don't like to uh uh let me say this about helper tryouts uh uh uh they need to have ratings just for the long bite where you get a rating just for that okay they give the rating away much too easy okay you mean the helper itself or the dog the helper helper right yeah yeah you get rated as you're officially you can do the long bite okay and they give those ratings away that national level rating way much too easy it's too hard to attain it's ridiculous you got to have like so many dogs in your book guess what if you show up the new york yankees you hit five home runs they sign you to a contract they don't give a shit about how many minor leagues you played in there needs to be some valid when you recognize talent right exactly there needs to be some validation before absolutely okay but I would just like to what I would like to see is first of all it's harder to attain that rating and then once you have that rating you get a number has nothing to do with your ability that's just your number six guy to get that rating and then you have a rotation system and that means your number is going to come up in the rotation and at that rotation you pick four guys and then the judge picks the two he wants but at least you know your name is going to be in the rotation I've been helper twice at the nationals it's an honor it's an honor to be the helper that am my god I can tell you I remember one time Gary Hanrahan's dog hit me and almost knocked my lungs out the back of my chest okay it's an honor and these guys who've worked to attain that level they should have a chance to have an this honor but having helper trials already starts to trial out with all this who's this guy who's that guy this guy knows this guy this guy this guy this guy stop all that stop up you all this needs to be thought so many aspects in our sport about no no no no no no no you understand you get that number you get your shot the judge don't want you that day that's fine you've got to work that time but you get your shot go ahead we can talk about something else

yes very good one yeah yeah this is this is how it was uh i mean and and that's it always there is controversy around how to select a good helper for competition because it's so important like we put some other time i mean it's everything it's everything is exactly the right way to put it i it really is everything because that guy is responsible for the for for your dog man and your dog is is your fucking dog yeah i know you know it's it's um and and i'll tell the story i don't care um ivan and mark and i we were at mark's house a couple of years back before the awdf and mark's dog hector is a beast he is a beast i ain't working that mother who could i mean what is he like 90 pounds besides that okay so mark he's now use a san francisco word he's a little bit feeling snake about doing the long bite with this dog okay because first of all he don't want nobody to hurt him and mark's a lot like me he don't want any tom dick and harry working his dog he knows that training is just as good as any other training the helper is just as important to that shit as you and that fucking ball so anyway so we're training before okay and mark doesn't do long bites with hector because of all these things i just said okay you remember this so a couple of days before the deal we're training there and i forgot maybe somebody did maybe mark did one first himself and the dog dove under the sleeve not because he was nervy he needs to learn how to target he was just like a crazy fucker running down the field i'll just bite you when i can find you okay you got to teach him that everybody knows this you got to teach him how to target okay and thank god ivan put the sleeve on and did some targeting with the dog the dog still jumped onto the arm in the trial but i hope mark learned something that day it was a good good this are these were amazing times too i mean we we have to keep them going i just watched you on on your facebook working dogs again i mean it's just melt my heart seeing shit like this you know you know right now ivan i'm really uh i'm really pumped okay i have a tremendous obedience coach now my god this woman she her shit i've seen a lot of people train dogs i'm an old man i've seen a lot of stuff okay this woman could and also too um you gotta you know you gotta have a team you gotta have a coach you gotta have an honest coach tell you a real quick story i was watching somebody who made the team really good dog trainer really good shepherd dog and i just went to watch because they have a good helper and i

wanted the helper to work with my dog and i was watching this guy train his dog okay and he has a spotter watching watching him and the dog does a slow sit and a slow down and his spotter says it was marvelous okay well two weeks later guess what in the qualifier he had a slow sit and slow down well what the hell come on spotter be honest you know tell me my shit don't stink okay that's your job all right but besides no i have a tremendous obedience coach right now um i forgot what you asked me i'm sorry tell me about the dog how old is it what my doberman yeah yeah my new one yeah the new one uh she's like almost three years old female oh yeah she's something she really rocks uh what happened okay i had my other doberman you know for those people now i talk about i won the nationals with him keeper one of the great disappointments of my life is i missed two doberman world championship with him because of the covet yeah yeah and he was a really keeper's a really great dog i know i saw you i saw you with him just you know he was like a golden retriever and also too his uh doberman genetically must have a super grip if they don't from the beginning forget it okay but once they have that genetically and what i mean genetically it's born that way uh they have they're some of the best gripping dogs there is there's this uh and i want to say this too i love this statements oh only certain helpers can work dobermans fuck you come on a good dog is a good dog is there's traits sure okay there's traits and you train different dogs and you know this shit but don't tell me that you got to be ordained in a certain breed to dog trainer it ain't like this okay but anyway um i'm sorry yeah you have to you have to when when you have a good dog it's a it's a good dog right anyway with the dobermans uh this dog okay i had keeper and actually uh the lady that owns the dobermans when i went to evaluate keeper he was about nine months ten months old his sister was better but i didn't want her she was too crazy i said no i did like she jumped over six foot fence and i said i can't have that so anyway the doberman i have now was out of her uh i'm exceptionally we'll see i don't want to say no more than that she's a really good dog uh she has a tremendous natural grip uh i have a little bit of an issue about her barking dub dobermans i describe them a lot like this you have hounds and you have terriers okay and their temperaments okay the terriers want to chew your ass or stupid animals they might do good obedience

the hounds are lazy uh big oafy uh the president of the idc the doberman club just wrote this thing about our dogs are too old feet too big all this but anyway um uh but if you get a cross between those you can get a really nice dog the problem with dobermans is they're too brittle they're not designed well the way they're the way they're built okay the body is too big that stresses their ligaments especially in the rear end right the body yeah that's a very good point i like i always look at them and i admire how they're built but i know that the body has a weak points not that every everybody has weak points right yeah yeah but i know what you're talking about believe me in that breed there's more perversions than there is in other breeds okay and in that breed it's you know it's just it gets like so many once you go into just evaluating a dog the way it looks how big can a girl's tits be you understand what i'm saying you know it's ridiculous okay and so but anyway uh she's a good dog i really like her we'll see you know i i i'm very lucky i have a true i want to say again i have a tremendous obedience coach i'm very happy i'm very happy i uh uh no it's going to be good that's amazing to like that's that's the whole the cool thing about what we do no matter how old no matter how many world championships no matter how there is always something to learn something that yes something that excites you something that's like yes yes yes yes and again it's because it's a competitive sport you know and if you you know there's an old saying in american baseball from a tremendous baseball player you better look forward because if you look back somebody's gonna catch you you know and that's what's so beautiful about our sport and really being an old guy i've seen such a tremendous evolution in this and in the uh and that the and the judges have to maintain this that the dog has to again be in that performance obedience you know the obedience must be exact but the dog must show a performance in this and and also too and i'll say one other thing to the handlers i know it's hard to be it's hard you're nervous i just had a new guy bless his heart he went to his first regionals you know what i'm saying and he was like man my first reason and he did when i went to the track but i pulled first and i was so nervous i didn't know what to do and i know all that i know all that guys but really uh understand the dog he doesn't understand he thinks anything that you feel the dog caused try to get over your nerves learn to be happy learn to be happy when you show your dog radiate also too

i like to think that my radiance is going to take over the judge but that's just my crazy okay i if you see me sometimes you'll see i'm joe happy out in that field and the judge goes hey this guy's kind of crazy i'll give him a few more points go ahead smarts me something that's smart plus it needs to be this way ivan you understand i'm so conscious i want i want i want 20 years from now 30 years from now 40 now everybody to enjoy what we a real good friend of mine roland seibel who i admire tremendously the german german judge he said to me dean because i'm so worried that my grandson won't be able to have the fun we had in the dog show you know that is true you know and really because and it's not just a personal fun you know it's it's we're doing man we are doing and i don't we are doing really good things for the future in our sport this is what makes dogs good go ahead ask me something else i'm sorry so let's do um let's go back california time sure sure these were these were special times for me and i'm sure for you too absolutely good like you you were you were you owned the whole bay area like i mean from from up north from above san francisco all the way down to above san jose there was a schedule and somehow we all knew where dean's gonna be to work dogs and here i am working at guide dogs for the blind walking around all day long driving through golden gate bridge in huge traffic yeah loading my dog and heading back to san jose in the biggest traffic on 101 that takes me even back in the 90s it would take me an hour to get there and here we are at 11 pm starting to train dogs yeah and here is dean making the list how he's gonna work the dog so he kind of puts him in the group so he doesn't wear himself out with a bunch of strong dogs so he kind of balance them out but there were so many dogs in so many days and you guys lived in that van yeah yeah no it's you know ivan uh before that let me let me uh you know you want to talk about history so so let me let me let me let me go back really to the to the beginning please in 1979 before that okay before that uh when i was in college okay a friend of mine had a german shepherd and i wanted one and i got one and he was a shitter he wasn't a good dog but i wanted to know why he was a bad dog okay he was the best dog in obedience class because i like doing this i like doing that but out every and he got worse and worse and worse and his temperament okay so i wanted to find out why and in those days there was no internet there it wasn't like now okay so all we had their information you talked about dog sport magazine it

was very there was no information and there were mag there were books you would read and you see pictures of these german dogs let me say something else i have a keen interest in history i love history it's fascinating to me how this dog training sport grew out of that culture in germany that is some really weird man that is some really weird anyway let me continue uh anyway so uh after i wanted to know my why my dog was a turd okay why it was no good and and i had a friend uh his name was val dur i still hope he's alive really good guy man really good guy anyway and uh he had a really nice dog a shepherd dog anyway there was a magazine a dog world and there was ads in there just a few ads of these german dogs okay and then you'd read books whatever about these german dogs okay and then um um i remember reading i read in the l.a times uh shudson training oh god i wish i had i wish i had a camera in my brain to show to tell you what i'm going to tell you now with an actor named timothy carrey timothy carrey was this he always played the heavy he was in a a lot in a show called beretta and he was always he played like this ghoul kind of guy he was really this weird character okay so there was shudson training with timothy carrey so i said cool i'm gonna go out there and watch this stuff so i got there this guy was a character i could tell you tim this is i could tell you a lot of timothy carrey stories so anyway he wanted out he wanted all this money to train the dog and i was just a poor kid and i couldn't pay that shit uh maybe later i'll think of some good timothy carrey stories but anyway so one thing leads to another one thing leads to another and somehow i found out about i remember i saw somehow i found out about shutson in san francisco the peninsula canine corps and and and you know guys everybody likes to talk about the old days but i talk about the the usa headquarters i'd love to see a hall of fame there's a man named yeah and there's everybody in this country owes uh to gernot riedel he was the ultimate character but he did so much for this sport he was one of our first judges he did so much for the sport i went up there i watched those guys train i came back to los angeles and then somehow or another the sport was just getting going there was isolated clubs in different places in america but they really didn't have like a national organization and then in 76 united shuts in the clubs of america these different clubs mainly influences by gernot riedel and his group in san francisco paul hambach who was the character of

characters in wisconsin a guy crazy ass german dr strasser and watching dc some other guys they got together and they started united shuts the clubs for america and right away man that took off like wildfire why because we had german shepherds and everybody loves german shepherds and that's what we're missing right now on our advertising our sport those dumb shits let me continue so anyway uh so anyway uh so now it's 1970 i don't know i've got my first puppy uh and i was very lucky about that you talked about dog sport magazine okay uh the guy who started shuts in usa magazine was named mike mccallan and because of that magazine that promoted our sport you understand you had advertising right in front of the look shuts in usa look at these german shepherds doing this you can do it too okay so mike had a litter of puppies all right and i wanted to get a puppy and i was lucky because the first litter was from a show line dog and i didn't know that in those days but his second litter was from award and that dog was national champion that cliff holcher had trained a dog named cliff and phil won like the first nationals with the mic in 77 maybe 76 something like this okay but my puppy was from that dog okay so what did i have that other people didn't i had a good dog so when i would go to seminars people the germans wanted to help me because they i had a good dog they're not just some shitter you understand oh my god what are you doing with the shitter i can't do anything with this dog it's a waste of time so anyway now the clock turns ahead uh uh i joined one of the first seven clubs ever in usa there were seven clubs started usa san fernando valley schutzen club tom mitchell phyllis leakey some crazy ass people i didn't like it was very i still have a hard time dog sport was very difficult for me in the beginning because i'm a hippie from san francisco right okay and i have those values very deep in me okay i do not like i don't like sexist men i don't like racism i i and and i don't like negative energy it's very difficult for me to be around those atmospheres but i there's a couple of great great individuals roger strout and the coolest guy oh my god i'm glad this is coming back to me guy named joe rendon joe rendon was the coolest guy in the world this is how i decided to be dean calderon when i met joe rendon okay this is maybe 77 or 78 we're having a seminar so i'm going to the seminar and on the sideline there's joe and joe rendon's about 55 years old this mexican dude real dark mexican dude and joe

rendon had been in prison in in texas for two joints like for 20 years okay but how he got out early he would let the dogs chase him okay but he got so good at it the fucking dogs couldn't catch him okay so joe rendon in those days i mean you think about this is 77 76 78 if your dog didn't bite joe rendon it ain't gonna bite nobody okay so i'm walking up the seminar on the sidelines there's joe rendon he's sitting on a blanket he's got like three really nice teenage girls sitting around him he's smoking a great big joint and he's doing the rap i look at that and i said that's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna be just like joe rendon you know he was a cool dude but anyway uh after to lead one thing to go to another uh i had a really good dog nando was my first dog i won the hot championship in 79 it was the third national championship in san jose after that i met and i didn't with nando i only remember like the name will always come up as a it's a back story you know that's how i remember great great nando story okay i mean uh uh uh i'm i don't uh just a quick not uh at national training seminar a great great trainer named renhart lindner my god what he taught me about tracking i'm not going to say about this i'm i got to keep my mouth shut because i'll start saying things people get angry but he really knew shit about tracking he was in a seminar and those custom police guys they knew how to use that stick in protection okay how to block dogs how to smack them in the head to get more aggression understand in those days and the critique in the trial the last words said were hardness courage fighting drive and then they gave a system one to ten and thank god they don't say that no more you can't say those words there'd be no more dog sport if you say those words gotta understand that but in those days they said those words okay so fighting drive the demonstration of that and also in my little bit what i'm seeing nowadays in dog sport the judges are understanding there's got to be some they don't say it but there's got to be some fighting drive there too in the protection phase it just can't be flat on the arm like you're just glued on like a turkey but anyway uh renhardt lintner was given the seminar you know and i had learned some stuff and i could tell you more about that too but anyway and talking about nando and he says dean he goes dean get that nando stickers in those days you got a reed stick okay oh yeah we use reeds and there's a great big thick bamboo stick about this big and that was called the nando stick okay she's gonna whop dogs in the head

to keep them cleaning the blind okay so anyway and that was the nando stick but anyway let me go on uh i want to really talk about egon valrath okay man what happened definitely name that needs to be mentioned yeah i mean i can't tell you guys enough about egon valrath okay really uh the valrath family uh somebody said they were like the kennedys and and egon and it's i really want to make the positiveness that he brought to our sport and how he brought this okay first of all we would have a seminar every couple of months with great trainers with superstars yes and it became like a deal in germany that if you didn't get invited to egon's house you weren't okay and egon i mean i'm telling you and another thing that we were smart about and later on i remember conversations about this with riser and coning a few years later uh we didn't have one person who lead us led us to the ring in our nose you understand there's just a three-phase sport okay the border police guys renhart littner and those guys they taught us tremendous amount about tracking tremendous amount about tracking don't talk to me about that american that everything's so famous give me a break anyway let me continue uh uh uh in protection it was evolution and i'm there's a lot of names to be talked along that evolution uh uh i'm kind of lost in thought now um in obedience uh eventually the big magnitude jump up was finally meeting fritz beeler but let me get back to egon ballrath egon had a thirst and a hunger like i did for dog sport he wanted it so bad he wanted to learn he wanted to experience and also to every aspect of egon from that plus he he a gun showed up in this country uh he was i love the story he loved the story about the immigrants a guy showed up in this country with 500 in his pocket his son his son margaret with his son martin was a baby and his wife he had 500 in his pocket you tell your story egon egon was a was a steel was a metal worker so he goes to san jose and gets a job but he don't know how to do anything because it's all in meters you know and english is english is inches you know and egon tells the stories like you don't know what the fuck to do and the guy can you read blueprints of course i can he gone's dad i can tell you so many great egon stories man jesus christ egon's dad was a metal worker in germany okay and and so egon learned the traits when he was a little kid his i would be i guarantee you the volrath family home was still in germany with that metal shop in the back okay but anyway uh so egon came here with nothing and he talked about somebody who worked his ass off okay you

know and work ethic and everything else he made himself a very nice business super business yeah and that and of course you could have money and that enabled us to do a lot of great things okay and and again we weren't closed mind okay to me it's very simple in this sport the proofs and the points you ain't got no points you ain't got no proof you can talk all you want i'm happy for you talk to me okay some guys aren't great teachers they can't teach very well okay but i can watch you train your dog and maybe learn something but the bottom line is if you ain't got no points there ain't much to talk about you're a judge i'm happy for you we need more of those good for you especially in those days they bring some old german over good for you he brought worse i'm happy for you okay you're not going to teach me nothing about training no dogs okay and egon allowed this we had such an atmosphere for this in the 80s in south county i mean we had so many experiences so many times i was thinking about this today and i knew i was going to talk to you one of the most beautiful experiences with and guys i mean how many world teams did we make how many of us did first time out in egon everybody thought in the bay area that egon was the buffoon all of his buddies thought egon was the fat stupid german who played the constantina and then egon hicks up with the stupid hippie guy what are you doing and he left their club he left pcc we went and took over a new club he left all of his buddies and they're like whoa what are you doing with the stupid hippie kid what are you doing what are you doing okay so first time out we go to in those days it was called what was it called shudson three tournament or something it was what the wdc is now yeah okay we go there to indiana egon's first martin second martin 16 years old so thank you very much okay and that was just the beginning now i can go on from there i forgot what that was leading to but anyway uh uh no egon was just such a marvelous marvelous oh great story i forgot budapest 1985 1986 still a communist country i like i like history egon and martin egon gets 98 points in protection with a show dog irk the jerk show dog va father va mother show dog crazy motherfucker who helmet coney showed me how to use bite rewards and the e-collar to make this stuff absolute another day another story anyway he gets 98 points in protection martin comes out they're 16 years old gets 96 points in protection okay and i'm like yeah so we're driving through the

streets of budapest and it's hot like a motherfucker we got the american flag out the back of the of the of the of the station wagon playing born in the usa full blast with the kids chasing us through the streets of budapest and that you want glory you can have that glory or you can stick to your american dog sports and have glory in topeka kansas what kind of glory do you want yeah what kind of glory do you want i've walked in the stadium with my team with the usa team and the whole stadium going usa usa that's glory that's magnitude you want to go to topeka canyus with your leg biting dog i'm happy for you that's all i gotta say go ahead man egon and and and his sons man thomas and oh yeah yeah let me continue with that he got in his sons uh his son martin uh i mean we i just can't tell you enough we had okay another story we had a guy uh al kerr was his name he was a dentist and uh our sport is athletic okay and al was the kind of guy where like you pick them last when you pick sides he gets picked last okay but al was smart he was a very intelligent intelligent man right exceptionally intelligent man and he could learn okay so al comes out with it after agon won that spring championship martin was second now we go to the national championship and i wish i could tell you everything maybe one day when i'll die i'll really tell you everything because i knew who was shaking i knew who was shaking okay it was basically man i could really get people mad at me it was basically some characters from there's an area that's southern of michigan and ohio and those kind of places yes okay so these characters decide that there's like this war and the war is against us well very true this was like like the east coast west coast rap story right that's where we were really right right okay you guys want to have a war fine so we show up for the next championship okay and we got a new guy because you guys haven't even seen yet okay and this is the youngest dog ever to win the national championship al kerr goes out there wins that motherfucker martin is second he got his seventh and we're like okay let's continue yeah and then there was more after that but anyway uh al's dog uh doug was his name tremendously and see this is another thing that we knew right from the beginning even though egon's dog was a show dog he was a genetic freak okay and the training was really it's not the kind of training that i like to do basically what you do is you attract the aggression because he was so um recently i was watching a video of a very famous

show dog named dingle vom house gero okay and i know some history about this dog and they showed the protection at the seeker show and people are saying oh he's nervy is all this and that might be true but his in his brain that dog was really biting that guy he didn't he doesn't have the he didn't have the ancestors of the prey drive like our modern german shepherd dog has so in his brain he was doing his protection like i'm gonna bite that motherfucker so that's why he showed a little bit of wavy gravy okay and it was the same thing with egon's dog that show dog that crazy and a lot of show dogs that will bite you still think this way he thought he was chewing you up so we had to work with that uh that's a very hot drive that aggression like and you learn how to cap it with the e-collar what i like to call the junior and it worked out pretty good for egon won some championships with that monster a hundred points in protection to win the canadian championship and some other things but anyway about what he got let me continue real quick uh really he needs to be like recently i was very disappointed they had the nationals in california and i would have named it the egon volrath gernot riedel willie ordner memorial national championship you know these three guys you know i mean you know they did so much you know and and and and and it's and again maybe it's stupid when you get old to think about the past but but you know it's okay yeah but uh ask me something else i'm sorry go ahead how how um man i i just i i almost don't want to interrupt you because it's so like it just brings so much memories and it's so cool like i i mean we were really fortunate and everybody has their times and everything but egon truly was instrumental for the whole sport in the country but especially as you said in in california we were so fortunate to have because there was no internet we yes and he would bring the best of the best right for three days four days five days and we would sit i remember us watching helmut reiser we see and he goes into behind the san jose club on on we're all on the bench having drinks and whatever and he's on the big white board talking shit and we're like oh and then and then we go and we train and it's just amazing times but you know what like i i'm curious how how did the where who who helped you who guided you with the helper work like how did that all started because i mean eventually you became somebody on your own i mean working so many dogs so many different dogs the shitty dogs the excellent dogs yeah first of

all let me say something first of all okay you know a helper work sure you gotta have physical gifts okay and i you know god gave me some physical gifts okay um when i was young i was a pretty good national natural athlete you know but i think more important than that is my extreme liberal um raising education i come from a christian family i'm not a christian but i one thing that grabbed me so hard about christianity that is lost is compassion okay you have to have compassion you have to get compassion and a lot of people say oh dean that's a dickhead he told me dog was a shitter and he was all mad at me that's true too but believe me there's many many many people i've helped from nothing you got to have compassion for that dog and that handler okay really you really got to do your job as a helper that's why you're called the helper you have to make that dog the best possible dog you possibly can be the germans have a saying okay you have to be able to train an army of dogs okay not even a green beret has to be trained but you got to be able to train some cooks too because if you can't train those cooks man what are you gonna do with the green berets you understand and also to our sport is uh i'll get back to help work in a minute you know i understand it's hard for people in america because you have a job you have a family you got to work yada yada yada how many hours do you have to dedicate yourself to this okay so you go to the dog club you only want to have two or three hours a night you want to go home on the other hand uh we need to be able to train there's nothing wrong with soft dogs and developing those dogs and building them up let me know about helper work okay in the very beginning all right uh probably my first real influences was uh uh oh let me let me think now was of course uh the zoll guys uh let me let me get back to something sure even before even get before that uh i met doug deacon okay and doug deacon and i actually lived together in california for about six months we worked for the shyster the shyster guy came to me and says dean i'm gonna buy this big facility and this is what i learned about it's happened to me a thousand times in my life dean we're gonna buy this facility oh yeah dogs yeah right that's what i want to do anyway this guy came to me and one and i was a young guy so i said okay cool i'll do that he came to doug and said the same thing quick story about doug how i met the how i met doug 1978 i think it was 1980 at the nationals in denver okay a guy named fred schar from canada had tremendous german shepherd

dog named ook bungalow fred comes up to me and goes dean will you work oh i said sure man i won't go no problem tremendous dog super super super so doug's standing there and he's got this dog named sheba and i swear to god it's like benji comes to shudson if you ever know what benji looked like it was just look like benji okay so so doug says will you work my dog and those days i was like this young nazi crazy kid and i'm like okay you know so you know dog barks nice escape bite re-attack i can't hit her with the sticks he just looks like benji you know doug says out comes to the assistant doug just gets in my ass you hit my dog with the stick blah blah blah blah blah blah okay dude you want to play that game fine benji comes up whop the shit out of her she bites even fucking harder i'm like holy fuck and then you never saw this in those days doug waits 10 minutes comes out brings her on the field and does the best obedience i've ever seen in my life i go back to the hotel and everybody's like well i'm gonna win i'm gonna win i'm gonna win you guys ain't seen shit i just saw benji comes to shudson and she's gonna kick our fucking ass and sure enough she kicked our fucking ass okay doug is a great i had so many great times man doug i have so much respect from him you know from i mean he's so well oh i mean he's just but and but like the way he can read the dog yes you know it's like you know when he tells you that dog is good you don't need to test that anymore yeah you know really uh there's been some uh uh you know i know we get on target on off track but my mind you know one of the great things that's happened in our sport i really think is the judging has gotten a lot better i really do when i watch it a little bit okay and doug was one of those to help control regardless of which is not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just not just Let's talk about help work, but let me go back. No, no, no, no. We can go all over the place. Anyway, you know, sometimes like one of my biggest pet peeves in obedience, I mean, I can't stand hand or help. It just drives me nuts. Right. Okay. It drives me nuts. And what drives me nuts too, is a judge who allows this head come in on the front. You can't, eyes front. That's simple. Eyes front. Okay. This is not a club trial.

We're talking championship time now. And never to look at the dog. You know what never means? Never. Not sometimes, not only on Tuesdays. Never. Okay. You know what also never means? The dog can't touch you with the dumbbell. I'm sorry. It's simple. Never means never. Okay. And I watch this, those two simple things. Eyes not front and dog touching the dumbbell. And I watch the inconsistency in championships, judging this shit. And I want to go to the judge. What the fuck is wrong with you? The judges nowadays, you can't question. They got all emotional. How dare you talk to me? You said I made doo doo. You're a professional. You can't handle a question. Right. A lot of, a lot of judges don't have the, I, I, I, and that's my opinion. I think they see it, but they don't have the courage to, to actually stand, stand for the rules and for the sport. You know, I don't go that much. I've been, I just, this year I watched some of the qualifiers, you know, and, and some of the judging was a little, um, um, again, I think they need to make people understand. Again, I thought Mike deal showed his dog really well, very ice front. Okay. Pretty good. I'm not going to say some other handlers. It was embarrassing to me. It was some, and the judge just let it shut slide. It was like, that's cool. It was like, you know, one group later, you know, and then a couple of the women, I mean, he just killed these women. I mean, what the hell, you know, what are you some kind of, and, and it was a couple of women in an obedience. And this one particular woman in protection phase, I mean, dude, dude, come on, man. What are you talking about? You know, what are you talking about? And, uh, uh, you want to, uh, um, I don't know. Anyways, let's talk about how. Judging is very difficult, man. Yeah. It's really, I wouldn't want to do it. I don't, I mean, it's such a hard job. You know, what an interesting point for discussion. Is it good to have like three judges or just one judge? Right. There's a lot of good points to be made with that, you know? I mean, pros and cons for sure. What's that? There are pros and cons for, for multiple judges. Yeah. What that three judges thinks, I don't like average, you know, I don't like that so much, but then I don't like, you know, you see, but anyway, sometimes in my German shepherd heart, when there's a really good German shepherd judge that I admire, I want to have one judge. I want to have his opinion. And then next year I want to have somebody else who I admire their opinion. Yeah. And then I want to have a good word opinions. You understand? Because a lot of this is not just black and white.

It's what you see that day and what you feel that day. Okay. So, but anyway, back to helper work. So, hold on. Hold on. We'll get to the helper work, but let's, since we're on judges. American judges. Uh-huh. Which one of all times stands out to you that you, you have the utmost, like that was. That I thought was a good judge? Yeah. Oh, man. That's a hard one. Yeah. I'll tell you mine. And I didn't know him too much. Oh, fuck. Now I cannot think. Like, I'm so bad with names. But you will remember him because he was very good with obedience. He judged. John Mulligan? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, I only saw John judge a couple of times, but he was one of the first guys to. Like, he was somebody that when he gives me a critique, I was able to go back home and train. I knew what I needed to do. Right. You know? Also, too, John, I think, really defined, showed people what the rules really were. You understand? These are the rules. And it's only the rules. It's not four strikes, five strikes, two strikes, just three strikes. The rules, okay? And he was very good at that. He was very good at his presentation of the critique. This is one thing, too, that I would like to see better by some American judges. I don't know what they talk about at the judges' college. It's not my business. But the first, for instance, you're judging a dog. And let's suppose this dog makes 94 points overall in obedience. Well, the first adjective out of your mouth should be, this is a very good dog. Or this performance was very good. And then you justify and you critique that first adjective you gave. You understand? And then each exercise, it's not good enough or that was kind of nice. No, it's excellent or good. Right. Very good. It's not all these other words. Put it in the reading. All these other words. It cannot be. Those words do not exist in the judge's evaluation book. It doesn't exist. So how can it be pretty good? It's either good or very good or whatever, okay? Also, too, a judge can never talk about training in the trial. Never. You never talk. Exactly. You know, you can pull the person aside. Cannot turn the critique into a mini seminar to show off how much you know as a judge. This is the most ridiculous thing. You got it. You know, really, I can imagine how hard it must be going. I have, again, some friends that I admire that I think are great judges. And I say, man, what do you do when you go to a club and, like, all the dogs are really bad and you're just like, well, what do you do? He goes, man, you just try to make a good time of it. You know, you just try. I had a friend. He went and judged in China. And he said it was just horrible.

You know, they had all these dogs. They couldn't foos. They couldn't down. They couldn't do anything. All right. Anyway. But anyway, back to helper work. In the beginning, again, I learned a lot from those old guys. Renhart Lintner. Knott's. I like Lintner. Again, there are certain traits in individuals I like. I loved Lintner's ability to teach. I loved his patience with people. I loved his compassion with people. There was another individual in those days that a lot of people really liked. I didn't like him because you don't treat people that way. You've got to find a good way. And that's what I liked about Renhart. And he showed me a lot of tremendous things, okay, not just in tracking. He showed me how to use that reed stick, how to block the dog, how to use the reed stick to whop him. I don't want to talk about it. I don't show it so much. Mark knows how to do it. He knows how to do it, how to use that reed stick to get some aggression out of that turkey. Yes. I want that dog to bark at you. I'll send him into black. I'll walk him with that stick. Go bark at me. Yes. People bless their hearts. You know, bless their hearts. Anyway, that's their business. But anyway, after that really. But then you make the dog grow from that. That was the key. Yeah. That's such a great point. That was the key. Yes, because you take the edge here and then it's here. And the dog learns to hand. It's that way. And then he comes and he knows he's the king. Yes. And it's that way in every contact sport. You understand? At first it's light and then they learn, you know, and they're stronger. You know? I mean, sure. And, you know, I don't go nowhere either. I don't watch nobody. But I think maybe this is missing places. I think. I think. Okay. I have a helper that I like very much. A very athletic young man. He knows nothing to this type of training. Nothing. And you can see it in the dogs that he trains. They're trained, but they ain't got no heart. They ain't got no heart. They ain't got no heart. They got no zoom zoom. You know? They're just like a yank. Okay. They do the routine. Good for you. But back to it. After that, okay, we started bringing people over and everything. Okay. And I didn't like what was going on. And I don't want to say a name. Was somebody. This is when I first went to Egon's. 83. I didn't like who was the local hero in Northern California. He was not. I didn't like this guy. I didn't like the way he was. I didn't like everything about him. I had seen articles about Helmut Reiser and heard his name. Okay. And Egon had a guy. His name was Peter Jacobs. Peter Jacobs was the head. Oh, man. And he was a head. Okay. Great dog, man. Another guy.

He was the head trainer for the park police in Stuttgart. And Peter came over. And what a great dude. Peter's. There's a tracking technique that I do to this day that Peter showed me where I go backwards in the beginning. People say, you're fucking crazy. Fine. How many times I want tracking? Okay. You just keep telling me that shit. Anyway. And Peter showed me that. Anyway. So, Peter. I'm talking to Peter. And I said, you know, Peter, I don't like this other guy. Yada, yada, yada. And I said, but what about Helmut Reiser? You know, what are you thinking? He goes, well, you know, there's this other guy. His name is Helmut Koning. Helmut. He's like in between these two guys. And I had heard about Helmut Koning. He had come to America and done a seminar a couple of years before. And everybody was emotional because they put a lot of pressure on dogs. Okay. So, I said, okay, let's bring Helmut. And when Helmut came, man, the stuff really got going. You understand the elevation of all the training. First of all, much better understanding of how to use the electric collar. Helmut was very good at being able to twitch and let it grow instead of suppress it. Right? Yes. Yes. And I mean, and talk about compulsion techniques. You know, how do I physically correct the dog? And Helmut knew that stuff. Okay. So, also, too, we called Helmut the Iceman. Because what Helmut demonstrated so greatly is you can train and you can correct your dog, but there's no reason to be mad. Why are you mad? Why are you mad all the time? And all these other Germans are like mad and mad all the time and I'm mad. We call him the Iceman. He was just cool. Just go correct him. Okay. I know. The Iceman, that's very good. Well, because when I first saw him, I mean, it fits perfectly, but I would always think of him as somebody very serious. Like, he always paid attention and he always wanted to put in everything to every dog that he attended to. Right? Yes. And, you know, he was another one, too, who could really read dogs. And let me, you know, you talk about hoverwork. I'll tell you about some tremendous experiences in my life. Being in the blind with Renhart Lindner behind me. And as the dog is coming in and barking at me, he's talking in my ear. And he's telling me this and he's telling me that and he's telling me this. And I'm like, whoa, cool. You know, just keep on talking, man. Just keep on talking to me, you know. I mean, I can remember those experiences. Helmut Koning, again, his calmness, his deliberateness. Okay. Then after Helmut Koning, there was a lot of guys who really, and there's some fools. I can give you a list of fools.

There's one guy who impressed upon, and again, it's, you know, this is why people should go to seminars. I always tell people, go to seminars, don't volunteer your dog. But if you learn one thing that helps you, you learn one thing, because you've got to be able to make your own stew. You understand? A little bit of salt here, a little carrots here, a little bit of this here. A guy named Franz Dürr came over and he was like, a lot of people liked him. And he was, I'm not going to say no more about Franz Dürr, but he was the first. I don't think I've heard of, well, maybe I do. I am so bad with names that I. No, he was, again, he was a guy, bless his heart, but he didn't know why. But he showed how important it was for that dog to hold that grip full, constant, dead prey. And that was the first time I really saw that, okay? Then his stick work, we'd been using the stick, but he took it to an extreme level. If you modified it down, how are you using to use the stick and striking the animal to make the grip even stronger? This is weird helper word shit, but more, I don't want to mention that. The most important thing was exhibiting of the dead prey holding. And what I could see then is what the dog was learning, was learning, was to breathe in and out through his nose. Right. Instead of going, like this, instead of opening their mouth and going, okay. Okay, now we're turning the block. And being satisfied, not being, being questioning, but being satisfied. Yeah. And this point that you just made, we started to understand that later, that the dog needed this for satisfaction. He wasn't, he didn't know, and that's why the word dead prey, I've killed it. It's dead. I've won. It's over. It's, I don't have to keep going like an idiot and keep kill mode going. I have dead prey. Right. After that, at the world championship in 91 or 92, 93, it was the first time America won the team championship. And I'll be very conceited. People that trained with me had three or four out of the top 10 places. A woman named Renee Lancaster. Renee Lancaster. Come on. A fucking dog of hers. Oh Lord. Can I tell you stories? He was called, what did they call him? The 220 dog? Man, she was intense too. Oh my God. Dog and Renee together? Both of them. Yes. You know, in those days people thought we were crazy because we would come out there with Renee in training and that dog would like run the blinds and do everything while we were doing obedience. And then she would turn around and do dumbbells where like we were doing long bites and all this shit because we had to get them that fucking tight. You know, we had to get him the dog.

And I mean, Renee, her work ethic. I mean, that's the kind of dog you got to train them every day. You know, jogging. I mean, her work ethic. Renee was tough. She got third place, 99 points. Second place, Greg Bennett. Okay. I'm going to blow my horn a little bit here. They did a really good dog. The dog's name was Buck. He was a very nice dog. A very good high prey dog. A lot of good German shepherd dogs. Greg still plays. What? Greg is still playing around. Yeah. Is our medium high prey dogs. Okay. That you elevate. You're good. Help or work and all that. And good obedience too. But anyway, so that was Buck. Okay. So that summer, he had already done all this good shit with Buck. And he brought him to me. But Buck was biting the wrist for whatever reason. Okay. He was going to the wrist. Going to the wrist. So I worked him a few times. And there's this up and over move that I learned years ago from a guy. Who was the guy? Bernhard Mantle. There's this up and over move that I know. And I did that with Buck. And lo and behold, he gets second place at the world that year. You know, so good for Gladden Bennett. But anyway, what were we talking about? Oh, I saw Rajay won the world championship. Javrej, whatever Rajay Scholenherz from Belgium. 99 points with a two and a half year old dog. And I watched it. And I saw there's something going on here. Something is, this is a new level. He's demonstrated something new. So next year, I go to Belgium. Okay. I go to Belgium and I walk right in there. And you can't want for a nicer man than Rajay. Just so people know who we are talking. So this is a Roger Snowell. Yes. Snowell. Yes. Yes. And with that dog, Ori. Ori. Exactly. He just, as Dean's saying, he just, he made the, he skipped two steps and he went somewhere else. He showed a new level. And everybody paid attention. Yes. And it was an important time. Yes. So I went to Belgium, you know, and I saw. And it wasn't just him. It was Ronnie and Ronnie Vandenberg. Oh God, I forgot. Oh God. Emil, Dylan, really good. Oh man. They were, the Belgians were fucking destroying. And when I went there, I was just like, whoa. There was so much talent there. Yeah. So anyway, and then, you know, Rajay started to show us some really good things about gripping and the importance of this. The Belgium, the athletic ability of the helpers, too. It was so marvelous. I love this. Rajay would do a thing I would call the Belgium spin where he would drive the dog. And every, this is an old hippie saying, every moment is a universe. That's how much you got to be about it. You can't be a bumfuck. Okay.

So when you're driving that dog along, if you feel any pulsations in his mouth, instantly you spin around. And as you spin around, the centrifugal force will kick into the animal to make the grip stronger. Okay. And then once the dog is at the height of the centrifugal force, when you can feel the height of the grip being the most, you crack that fucking whip. Okay. And then he comes around. You drive a little bit. And then when I saw the Belgium guys do is you could slip that dog to sleep. You could say sit. And that dog sat there, perfect grip, holding that sleeve. And I said, that is dog training. Okay. That is some dog training. Okay. And that really kicked it up real high, the helper work. I mean, really, really high. Okay. I want to say something else more important to me than anything else, and that's just Fritz Buehler. Okay. There's no man who's more important. You spend a lot of time with him too. I mean, you went so many times back there. I mean, he was, you know, what can I say about Fritz Buehler? He is, you know, when I was young, Fritz Buehler was like Elvis, you know, and I always wanted to meet Fritz Buehler. I mean, he was like the king. Okay. And I'll never forget Budapest, that first world championship. We were sitting there in the basement there. They had a bar and shit, and the German team is over there. And I'm over here with the Americans, and I'm with Egon. And I said, Egon, look, there's Fritz Buehler. And he goes, yeah, you got to know Egon. He's so cute. Egon was five feet tall and five feet wide. So he walks up to Fritz Buehler and goes, hello, I am Egon. Sticks his hand out. You know, and no one said hello to Fritz Buehler. He's the king. Okay. So they're talking German and shit. So then Fritz says to Egon, tell that young kid to come over here. So he comes over here. I sit down, and he says, Fritz says something like, he said someone had seen me do helper work. Okay. And then Fritz, you got to know this guy. This guy is the most intense, borderline manic individual you ever want to meet in your life. So with that, he goes into, and he's all talking German. Egon's trying to keep up, but he goes into seminar mode. And it goes on for three hours. And now we got to go outside at one in the morning in the parking lot. And he proceeds to tell us to get our American dogs. And he says they're fat and out of shape and stupid and everything else. He go gets his dog. What was that dog's name? I wish I could remember. There's some great stories about that fucker. He brings him out. And first thing I noticed, that dog's back is like as wide. You know what I'm talking about?

I mean, the muscles in that dog's back. Okay. It's two o'clock in the morning. And Fritz is putting on a show in the parking lot. Okay. So I'm like, okay, that's pretty cool. So turn the story ahead. A year or so later, a wealthy man came to me in the Bay Area and said, if you get my son to the Nationals, I'll buy you any dog you want to buy. And that's a story in itself. So I got the kid to the Nationals. The kid was great. The kid was like a freak out kid. You know what I'm saying? You know? And so I would meet him at high school. I'd be out in front of the school and pick that kid up. And we'd go train every day because I'm getting that dog. It was important. I mean, I had to get that dog. So anyway, so I go to Europe. And I get a dog named Axel von der Lindenhalle. And I like to tell stories. So, man, he was crazy. Drive up the motherfucker. And there was a guy named Horst Weissel, a great big dog broker in those days. So, and I'm looking at a couple of dogs. He said, Horst, I want that one. And Horst didn't know him. He goes, no, you can't handle that one. He's too much for you. You don't know what you're doing. You can't. No, I want that one. I want that one. So he goes, okay. So I get him. So the first or second day I get him, I go out to track him. I tie him to a tree. I lay at the track. I can't get him off the tree. He's going to kill me. So now I got to go back to Horst's house and say, Horst, guess what? I can't get him off the tree. Good story. Anyway, back to Fritz. Oh, with that, okay. I knew I'd seen Horst and Fritz hanging out together in Germany. You know, I knew there were buds. So I said to Horst, I said, man, I would like to meet Fritz Bieler. I said, I just want to meet. I met him a couple of years back. I just want to meet him. So we go over to his house, you know. We start talking. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Put the sleeve on. Ba, ba. And, man, then it started. And I'm telling you, man, I suffered. I can tell you stories. I mean, I suffered, okay. One of the things that Fritz would always do all the time, he would demonstrate something to me. He would always say, the dog cannot suffer from your mistakes. So maybe something in obedience, a move he wanted you to make. He would demonstrate it to you. And then you had to practice that move without the dog. So you could execute it perfect. So I would go back to the hotel at nighttime and practice in the mirror, okay, the move. And, for instance, like maybe my pet peeve about ice front, because for Fritz Bieler, he'd hit me with a stick. I'd walk down the field. I looked at the start. Wah! It hit me with that fucking stick. Ice front! Fuck that! That's funny.

But, again, the thing about Bieler, what I want to say about him, first of all, his ability to read dogs. And, again, everybody, you've got to, in the context of the time, in the context of the time, okay, no one, no one has ever accomplished. And it's simple. The proof's in the point. Oh, yeah. No one has accomplished. Great, great story. Last time USA won the team championship, 08, 07, whatever year it was in Denmark, I was team captain. USA won that championship because of great obedience to Charlie and Wallace Payne and Tee did. That's why they won that world championship. But before the championship, Fritz is in the championship trial, okay? He's the oldest man with the youngest dog. He had just won the Bundesliga two weeks before. Some dog magazine from somewhere coming up and interviewing me and asking me questions. I'm USA team captain. Who do you think is going to win? I said, I think Fritz Spiele. They go, the German grandpa? He said, you just watched your grandpa. You just watched German grandpa. And he goes out there and wins that world championship. The story about that world championship, what people need to know, too, is there was a guy on, actually, if you turn the clock back three weeks earlier to the Bundesliga. The dog that was third place in that Bundesliga was Fritz Bieler's dog from the year before. And you've got to know Fritz Bieler, okay? Fritz is adamant. They robbed him. They cheated me. I should have won. This is the best dog. He's always like this, okay? Always like this. So he gets all mad. He's got his new dog. He gives that dog to his friend, an old man like him. Mind you, these guys are in the early 70s now. And this guy hasn't shown a dog for like 20 years. Fritz goes, no problem. I'll coach you up. They go to the Bundesliga and that guy gets third place. Just so Fritz loves to stick it in your ear. You know? He just loves to stick it in your fucking ear. I mean, I got so many greats. But something big about Fritz was, and you have to tell me more about it. Like, what I, and I never had the privilege to interact with him, but he was very much like, very structured. Like, it's like, no, this is the time I feed my dog. No, this is the time. Like, there was a- Ivan, you go to his field. And dogs like that. Yes, yes. Discipline. And dogs want the same. And nothing coming out of the blue with them, you understand? And they learn to trust you that way. You're the pack leader. You go to Beeler's Field, for instance, and there would be all these chalk marks on the field, like geometry shit. No, no. You put the- This is for the dumbbells. This is for the bungee. This is this mark.

This is that mark. Tell you a story. This is many years later. Because it's all about creating very solid habit. Yes. Before you put it anywhere else. If you don't train mistakes, the dog doesn't know he can make mistakes, you know? Years later, this is a story. Roland Seibel is another one who learned so much from Fritz Beeler. This is years, years later. We're at Fritz's place. This is when I had Rex. And he goes, and we're talking, and I used to love to pry, because I knew if I started prying him on questions, and he'd just, you know, he'd start going, you know? So I'm starting to pry him questions about feeding, okay? And then he goes, come with me. And we go downstairs to the basement. And Roland looks at me and goes, Dean, he's never let me in the basement. And I'd already known him for 20 years. He'd never let me in the basement, okay? We go in the basement. There's a kitchen. And he has a graph of what that dog is going to eat for the next 30 days. Exactly, okay? Then he has another graph about exercise. The dog's going to get this exercise. And that exercise. And I'm like, okay. You know, this is what I'm talking about. Yeah, I mean, when you think about the super athletes, human athletes, that's what they do today. Yes, yes. That's the program. He would get his, like, he's feeding shit from horse people in Germany. I mean, he was all about this. I mean, he was, every little thing, every little intricacy with the dog was so relevant to him. You know, I mean, I just, I'm the only one who has lots of training videos. I wish T was here with me now because he would enjoy this so much. I'm going to tell you a secret. Go ahead. Did you see the training videos? No, no, no. But you mentioned T. And one day I want you, T, and I live podcast. I didn't believe me. I had the same thought. I had the same thought. We fucking have to do that. I have the same thought. You know, when you get T, too, get him to play his drums. It's cool, man. He can play. But anyway, another story. FCI championship, whatever year it was. I was on the FCI team with Rico, who I got from Fritz. And I was also on the Shepard team that year. And Fritz came out to the FCI because it was before the Shepard championship. And that was like a tune-up trial. So he came to watch me and, you know, watch and watch. So afterwards, I said to him, I said, man, Fritz, we would really like to come over and just meet you and stuff. And you got to know Fritz. Like, no, no, I cannot meet nobody. No, you come and we train. No one can come. No one can come. I said, Fritz, I just want to come and shake your hand. That's all. Okay? Okay. Okay. So, okay.

And you got to know Fritz, too. I love it. So I tell the team, we're going to go meet Fritz. And I said, now, listen, before we go in front of the hotel, I'm going to expect all you dudes because you cannot have dirty clothes. You know, when you show Fritz the South with dirty clothes, you go home. Seriously. If you've got dirt on your shoes, on your tracking boots, what's wrong with you? I mean, that's how he, you know, really? Seriously. Seriously. He changes his shirt every time after he does obedience. His wife brings him a new shirt. Okay? To help. The special fucking shoes for obedience. Okay? This is a huge fucking deal. So anyway, before we go, I have to inspect everybody. I'm going to run out of battery here soon. But anyway, before we go, he inspects everybody. You better charge it. Yeah, I'm going to. You better find it. Anyway, so I got to make sure everybody's, you know, cleaning everything. So we go there, okay? And Fritz is there with his normal stern self. And, but right away, the team captain gives him the flag. And that kind of breaks the ice. So then his wife, Ellie, brings out coffee and shit. And we're sitting around talking a little bit. So we start training dogs, you know. And there was a sleeve in Germany. They don't use it so much anymore. It's called Ebinger. And the cool thing about the sleeve, you can use right arm, left arm, switch back and forth. T had a dog named Ike. Okay? I remember him. A lot of great Ike stories. Tremendous Ike stories. So T brings out Ike and right away Fritz looks at the dog and goes, Malinois. Because you could see the dog had Malinois in him. He was from, he was from, he was from the Netherlands, you know, that registration. So you know what goes on there. Okay? So anyway, long story short, Fritz gives T that original, Fritz invented that Ebinger sleeve years before. And he gave T the original prototype. And T still has it in his house. And anyway, that day, Fritz let us videotape training. And it's one of the few places where there's real training with Fritz Beeler. Wow. There wasn't, it was just mostly like Rex, some stuff with his own dog, you know, a little bit with T's dog. Real, real quick story. T was here. He would like, you know, I was having big problems with Rex with the sit in motion. And the real problem was his anal glands were messed up when I found out when I went home. Starts foosing, foosing, foosing. Foose past, he goes past me and T. Ivan, he's so light on his feet. You can't even hear him. You know, when he's walking past you. And then he tells the dog sit. And he does this move where he catches his chin with one hand.

And the other hand, he pops his butt. But it's not the slow. I mean, it happens so fast. You know, it's like, wow. And then he just kind of looks at us, takes the dog away, comes back. Okay. Does it without it. The dog just nails it. Then he looks at me and goes, what? There we go. I mean, it's just, no. I mean, Fritz Bieler, again, another individual who, it just, I'm so blessed that he opened up to me. I just can't say enough. You know, I just, he's a very difficult man. Lots of times I'm glad I didn't speak German. His basic character, I talk about character. Maybe as an individual, maybe I wouldn't like, but he had something I wanted so bad. I wanted to know what he knew, you know. Interesting. That's very, very, very. Because that's hurt to me a lot. Yeah. Believe me, if I don't like you, I can't be around you so much. But he had that, that I needed. So anyway. That's a good point, how you put it very, very nicely. You know what I was thinking, kind of to sidetrack a little bit, but you know, early on when we were talking about every sport, I think one thing that keeps a certain sport, being humans, horses, whatever, there is always appreciation, acknowledgement of history, of Hall of Fame, of who is who. And our sport lacks this. We never think about maintaining history and maintaining, like, even when you think about the name, how many times we changed the name of the sport. Right. Like, just by changing the name all the time, you're destroying. Imagine Nike changing their name. Yeah. 20 times. Right, right, right. Like, we cannot maintain, we cannot build, like, future is built by what we do at present times, which creates the past. But the past is important. And somehow, the IGP community really has not found a way how to excite people with the past. And that's what you are doing right now. Believe it or not, that's what is happening. I hope everybody that does IGP gets excited and makes it motivated to go to want to train. You know, Reiser was just here last year, did a seminar, and I went, you know, I like Reiser. He's a good man. He really tries really hard. Okay. He really does. He has very good intentions for all this crazy shit. And he talked about something that is maybe the truth. And, Ivan, you're such a great example of this. We need to have superstars in our sport. Okay. We need to have people who people can say, I can do that, too, you know. But in the last couple of years, the judging has gotten a little bit too – I think maybe the last year has gotten a little bit better. But for a while there, it got so extreme, you know. I mean, like, fuck. What, is it all going to shit gold? You know.

And it's like – and like I was saying earlier, I look at these new handlers. Are you going to go out there and just get your ass chewed up by these judges? You know. And, I mean, we have to – and I'm not talking about giving away points, okay. It's very great that Mark make 97 points this weekend at the FCI. That's great for the new people in our sport to have that example of a younger person who can do it, too, at a great level that you can – there is success that you're not just going to go there and get kicked in the teeth after you try so hard. You know, one thing – who was the judge that said that to me? Gunther Deagle. He said something to me once. He says, when you're judging, if the dog doesn't show pressure, you have to find something good to say. You have to, okay. You got to give people a cookie if you want them to come back, you know. Again, you know, I know our sport is – I'm going to – I'm sorry. I'm probably going to drop power really soon. I just don't know how to charge this thing. But anyway, I know our sport is really difficult. It takes such a time commitment. But really, you've got to really understand that what's really cool is that not just you. You're part of a force. You really are. And especially if you really do your research and you get a breed-quality dog. Understand all that breed-quality stuff, all that evaluation stuff, that's data. And data gives you information, gives you knowledge, okay. There's many German Shepherd dogs in Germany who've never – who passed a breed survey, who never get bred. Yes, the owner knows it's their responsibility to go to the breed survey to get the data, okay. And this is vital. Again, about our sport, I don't ever want to see – it's okay to have cash prizes and shit like this sometimes. But that never should be like the deal ever because then the dogs will suffer. They will suffer from the money. Just go to bird dogs. You'll see it, okay. But on the other hand, we need to really think about how we can promote what we do more. You know, we really need to – they need to talk to the judges about don't have a sharp pencil in a local trial. Think about what Sunday afternoon in Germany means. You don't pass shitters. You know, what's a really interesting point, and this would be such a point in discussion, is what's going to happen with no stick hits. This is a tough one. This is a really tough one. Especially, we're not so concerned with our working line German Shepherds because the breeding is so strong in there. But you get like your show line German Shepherds, yipes. It's borderline as it is now. Then what's going to happen?

Your show line Rottweilers. Those are the kind of dogs that bite people and turn on people. Then what's going to happen? They think they're making it better, but in fact, they're opening a door for breeding of weak nerves. Right. I mean, it's really – yipes. I don't want to be like, oh, the old days were the best and all this shit, but man, that scares me. And it's so hard to make the public understand that. It changed – it really – this year changed the sport, changed the evaluation of dogs. It changed everything not for good. You know, I asked Pierre, the great judge from Sweden at the WDC this year about that. And I said, well, do you think the helper should be stronger? Do you – like a lot of times in the old days, the helper would scream at the dog all the time. And he said, Dean, in Europe, people aren't going to handle that. They're not going to handle that screaming at the dog and all that stuff. It ain't going to go on. I don't know what to say, you know. I don't know what to say. I think it was a matter of education. You know what is interesting with this? And I spend a lot of time about that topic. And I talked with quite a few people already. Nobody – like FCI, WSV, nobody was pressured by outside political forces to remove the tickets. That came from within. This is the sad part. Where we could have educated why we need it, why it's so important, and why it's not really hurting and cruel and all this what-ifs. Because in our sport, if the dog doesn't want to do it, the dog says, I'm not going to do it. And there is nothing you can do about it. You get another dog that likes to do that. It's a big mystery why this happened, but it will change. I'm absolutely sure that this 2023, it's like changing again. Right away, you know, that makes you have suspicions about show dog people and what they want to do with their show dogs and the money. I mean, we're going to have golden retrievers getting 99 points in protection. Right. You know, it's just – I know. It's – to me, that's – you know, that is something about this, you know, because really what our sport is such – it's the best definition of temperament there is for a working dog. Right. Okay. And to take that critical aspect of the test away. Right. Man, it's tough. And that's where, you know, like I – I mean, knowing over the years, I know shoot school is your thing. And I've grown up like I – again, like I did ring sport and I still do ring sport. And I appreciate all the dog sports in certain level. What I really, like, appreciated the most and the reason I was doing IGP or shoot school was because you evaluate character.

And now that changed. In 2023, that changed. From today on, the game is different. You know, again, you just – it'll be see what happens down the road. You know, see how the judges look at the protection phase. It's a tough one. You know, it's – everybody – everyone talks about this. Everybody who's been around for a long time discusses it, you know. You know, if we want to play the game, we've got to play by the rules they give us. We just can't make up our own rules. But it's not the same game. You've got a good point there. I know. It's a tough one. You know, I don't – I'm not one for being – again, there's nobody more radical than me. Let's put it that way. But I'm not one for tearing down institutions, okay? I'm not one – I'm one for this institution has brought us along this far. If you don't like what goes on in the institution, well, you work to try to make it better. I'm not about starting new clubs. You know, a club is only a bunch of – it's not a government. It's just a piece of paper with people saying we can do this, okay? That's fine. But even still, there has to be a continuity in the institution. You understand? So, where do we go from here? How do we evaluate character? I don't – you know – As a helper. As a helper, what do you do to show the character of a dog to a judge? Well, I think, first of all, again, you know, since right now, you know, the grip is the defining – is the manifestation, the physical manifestation of the temperament that you want in the projection phase. Right. That full grip, okay? But with that being said, too, this is the difficult part. Is the judge deciding are the drives balanced between aggression and prey demonstrating through the barking? You understand? It's the bark, dog bark, really strong, okay? And that is so inanimate. That's just an opinion, okay? Right. This is a very – this is a – yeah. And then, again, you get those dogs and this is – and there's nothing wrong with that, too. The dog, as long as he barks hardy in the blind, the rest of the outs, he stares. He's transfixed on the – Sure. He'll never look away, okay? Sure. But, again, it's – I mean, you're just – I don't know what to say, Ivan. I really don't know what to say. I just hope the judges – You know, like Mike Tyson had one very cool say, and I will butcher it because I am so bad of remembering things, but there was something about, like, you think you know who you are until you get punched in the face. You think you have a plan until you get punched in the face. Right. And that goes the same. Like, you think you have courage and everything until you get a stick hit.

And when we're talking about stick hit, right? Right. But when we're talking about stick hit, we're not talking about brutality. We're not talking about, like – okay, you and I know how it was way back then with the reed stick. And when we had Bill Fields, which it was – and he would go – we would do one of those, like, go to your dog. Remember? Yeah, sure. Sure. And then the dog walks out with a kind of, like, a little bruise from the stick hit. That was extreme. We don't need that. For sure we don't need that. But how do you test character if you don't twitch it, if you don't say, hey, what are you going to do now? You know, I don't – you know, I don't know what to say. You know, I don't know what to say. I do know that we have to be careful with what the public sees what we do. But it's education. Yeah, but even still, you know, even still, it's – because it's hard for people to get past the aspect, why do you want it? Why do you enjoy dogs biting people? You know, why do you enjoy that? What is your kick in that? Why do you do that? Why do you do that? What's the deal? Well, because – Why do you do these other things? You know, it's – again, I think, again, our judges – all I know is this. The judges must watch the grip very strong. They must watch – if you want to get big points, you better have some real good power when you hit. You must demonstrate – and this is another one of my hugest pet peeves – arresting behavior. The dog is an arrestor. It's not a punisher. It's not to push in and thrash. It's not the dog's decision to be a prosecutor. The dog's job is to arrest, clamp, and hold, okay? And I'll say something else. When you stop breeding dogs who are clamping and holding, you are no longer going to have what you have in the German Shepherd, which is the best family farm dog in the world. You're going to get an aggressive idiot that only very few people want, okay? And you could – but anyway, well, the judges – and again, then you've got to watch your transitions about the barking. Oh, it's – I don't know what to say. I don't want to – I don't want to go renegade. I don't think that we should – there's enough of that stupid shit floating off in the world by yourself. No, one of the greatest joys of my life was success on the world level, and I still want to do that. I do not have success in Topeka, Kansas, okay? That's small potatoes. For sure. That's small potatoes, okay? And any time you start an offshoot club, you're just small potatoes. Even Reiser and his group is still small potatoes. Everybody knows that, okay? You know? I mean, if you really have aspirations, swim with the big boys.

But there is a possibility that things are really going that far to where there will be a need for something else to come up. Well, maybe, you know, I see – acting unpredictably. Yes. And, you know, Ivan, this was your point about education, okay? Right. If anybody who really knows, knows that any good dog that you use for any kind of service is ancestors or IGP dogs. Some of the worst dogs I've ever seen have been in police dog kennel breeding programs in Germany and in America. Yeah. At military installations. Ship dogs. That they don't even know they're shipped. They just think, this is cool, okay? And I've seen it in Germany, in police departments, and I've seen it in American and military installations, okay? And we all know, all of us know, that the good dogs come from us. Right. We do, all right? Right. But again, like we've been discussing, the stick hits. Yikes. Okay. I'm going to change the subject. Okay, good. What? Let's have some fun. Okay. How about, give me the Japan story. Okay, I can tell you about that one. Oh, yeah. That's a good story. That's a good story. It's a fucking amazing thing. Okay. In 96 or 97, when we won the world championship in Finland, they did like a documentary about the event, okay? And I got to be in the documentary, okay? I got 100 points in tracking. And plus, I'm a weird looking Indian guy from America. And it's kind of weird. And plus, there was a lot of shit going on at that trial, too. I mean, you want to talk about some cheating motherfuckers? Tell you about that trial, okay? We had beat the, we were the first time the Germans had ever been beaten by a team was two years earlier in Austria, okay? So, we come to, we come to, you know, to Finland, okay? And at the end of the trial, guess what? We win again. So, what does Rudenauer do? The chief judge, the German guy, goes, we're going to have do-overs. What are you talking about do-overs? When is there do-overs in Schutzen? He says, we're going to have do-overs. So, we're going to have, and the tracking was really hard. Like, 30, 40 dogs on tracking was really hard. Because we're going to have do-overs in tracking. Yeah, right. So, then what does he do? He picks, like, two German guys who had Vs in the stadium to do do-overs. But then he picks Egon to do-over, who got, like, 81, 82. He got 120. It doesn't matter. Okay, so everybody's like, what the, what's this do-over shit? The Norway, you got to understand. The Finns don't like the Germans. That old stuff is still there. Okay? So, once that gets out, the Germans are playing these games, man, the shit started happening in the stadium. They surround the German team.

They start yelling at the German team. Egon walks to the German team. How can you dare treat us like this? We are the winners. And I'll say this. Gunther, you know, it was like a Henny. And I forget, there's a German guy. They said, listen, they're making us do this. They told us if we don't do this, they might kick us out of the club. So, we're like, you fucking cheating motherfuckers. So, the tracking judge then says, I ain't judging this. The trial's over. We're not going to have do-overs. So, and I'll say his name. I don't care. George Shoemaker's judging protection. He goes, well, I'll judge tracking. What the fuck? So, they take these guys out to track again. I talked to the track players later. They took them to the hardest field they could find. And when you're sitting there in the stadium, it's coming over, you know, 81, 71, fail. People start cheering. They start cheering, you know. We won that thing. So, anyway, there was a documentary about that. I was in that. It was shown all over Europe. Kind of like PBS. Remember being in an airport somewhere. Somebody coming up to you. Oh, I started on PBS. So, anyway, a year goes by. I get an email. We would like you to come to Japan and do dogs. That's all it says. And I'm like, what does that mean? I know what that means. So, I said, listen. And I thought it was like doing a seminar or something. Because, you know, it's on the team and all this shit. So, I said, I'm doing a seminar in Los Angeles. Come to this thing. So, the guy comes. Mr. Matsumoto comes to the seminar. That night, we go out to dinner. There's this fancy Japanese hotel in L.A. We go there. And like most Japanese businessmen, Matsumoto gets drunk as shit. He is drunk as shit. So, the next day, he comes out to the seminar. And after the seminar, we go out to dinner. And he looks at me and goes, Mr. Calderon, did I sign anything last night? And I said, no. He goes, did I promise you anything last night? And I said, no, not really. So, he says, okay. So, then he tells me what he wants me to do. He wants me to make this big dog park, amusement park in Japan like Disneyland, but just for animals. And it's, I mean, the place was amazing. He says, he wants me to come for two weeks, bring my national champion, and show what I do. So, I said, okay. I can, you know, how much are you going to pay me? You know, that's the bottom line. So, he goes, I'll pay you this much money. He said, okay, I can do this. So, I got Todd West. And there's so many stories about this. Okay. And I got Gary Park to go over to help me. Oh, did he come with you? I didn't know Gary went with you. Oh, yeah. There's a story about that, too.

Anyway, so, and at first, I thought this was Japanese guys wanted to train dogs, but I had no idea what the shit was. Okay. So, then, as a few emails go on and on and on, and also, I like the rumors. Once the rumors got out that me and, see, because the world championship was going to be in Boston that year. First time ever. First time ever. And Todd was going to be one of the helpers. And Todd worked with me. There's all this controversy, too. So, what? He works with me. He was a great helper. And then, I'm taken to Japan, and the word is, Dean's going to Japan with Todd to train the Japanese team. No. We get there. And I'm always starting to realize that ain't the deal. I'm going to this amusement park. So, when I get there, I'm like, whoa, man. The place is way up. Japan is a very mountainous country. It's not anything like you think. It's mountains everywhere. The place is outside of Tokyo, way up in the mountains. Beautiful place. Beautiful. It's like Disneyland. I mean, they've just spent millions and millions of dollars of building this facility. There was a TV personality in Japan. And he would go all over the world and do things with animals. And he was like part of theme guy at this park. Okay. So, I get there. And I was just supposed to be there for two weeks. Like, heel, sit, down, come, biting, talk a little bit about German shepherds. I get there. And what they've done, they've invited, like, different world, different champions and different animal sports from all over the world. They invited the sheep herding champions from New Zealand. They invited the frisbee champions from America with their dog. They invited the falcon champions, you know, birds, owls, falcons, eagles from England. And that's all Japanese culture. They love to, the shows of all sorts. It's amazing. It's amazing. Ivan, so before I get there, they write me, like, what do you need? So, I said, well, you know, I need, like, a field, like, I have, like, a world champ. So, I get there, Ivan. They built me a stadium. Like, a world fucking champion stadium, you know. So, I'm like, okay, this is pretty cool, okay. So, I get there. And, oh, there's so many stories. I get there. And what happens, it rains every day, like, two o'clock. And the stadium is just a mud pit. You can't do anything. Okay. So, then, they build me, like, this 15,000-seat indoor stadium, okay. So, I'm there for two weeks. One of the things that happened is they bought all these dogs from all over the world, like Noah's Ark, okay. And they had them all loose in this area. And Japanese people just like to look at them. Japan's a different spot, man.

So, I'm there one day, and I watch one of the dodoms go through a fence and just chew on this lady. So, one thing leads to another. They're, Dean, can you train these dogs? And I took one of the big problems. The dog trained them up. After that, after that two weeks, I was supposed to go to the world championship in Boston. And they said, Dean, can you stay longer? And I said, well, how much money you got? And they said, we got this much money. I said, okay, I can stay that long. Okay. So, I stayed. And one of the things I did is I trained a bunch of their dogs. Went to the world championship. Didn't do so good because I had to train my dog. Poor, it was Panther, my national. I had worked that dog 60 straight days in Japan. And I flew all the way to Boston and got him out of the car, out of the plane. And the dog was toast. He was absolute toast. That was my fault. But anyway, and then when I got back to Japan, they said, you got any other ideas about shows? And I said, yeah, I got a lot of ideas. We had dachshund racing. Not like you see here. This dachshund racing. I knew in Germany they had working dachshund and show dachshunds. So, I went and got working dachshunds. And these little fiends, they got dry for what they do, like our dogs have. You know what I'm saying? Like go to ground and find rats and shit. They're crazy. So, I got those dachshunds. Okay. And at first I thought, okay, I'm going to have like a race car, like a rabbit. They're going to chase it. I couldn't find a miniature race car big enough. So, I made some adjustments. And then I got there. In the indoor stadium, they built me a race course for the dachshunds. And dachshund race, I mean, all my shows. We had three times a day. We did Germany Shepherd Show. Part of Germany Shepherd Show was Gibby, my Jack Russell. And the Jack Russell, man, he was a superstar. Yeah. Gibby went on to have his own show in Japan. They had the Gibby Show. The Gibby Show was cool. He had his own little stadium too. I would go from one show and I would break to another show. Anyway, before the Gibby Show, the second year, the teenage girls would be out there with their, Gibby-san, Gibby-san. And they'd be chanting, Gibby-san, Gibby-san, Gibby-san. Because if they say son, like your name and son, that means they like you in Japan. So, Gibby, and then Gibby, he would do rock and roll video. And those were the days of the Spice Girls, okay? So, Gibby did one rock and roll video. So, then after that, I mean, Gibby, what did we do? 10, 12, 15 rock and roll videos, okay? So, then- He kept learning how to sign autographs. Ivan, selling T-shirts. Okay.

So, then I had this idea the second year, I want to sell T-shirts here. And I said, okay. And the boss, they said, okay, Dean, you can do this. So, I kept, like, after the show, got my little T-shirt stand there. Nobody wants to buy my T-shirts. I'm like, what the hell? And then I had the greatest translator. I had a full-time translator. Her name was Sa-ore, which means beautiful flower in Japanese. That's her name, Sa-ore. So, she says, Dean, you need to autograph those T-shirts. American Champion. So, I said, okay. Man, Ivan, I would come back to my room and I'd have a pile of money. Like, piles of money. And I'd throw it up in the air and I'd, like, wiggle all around. Like, I'd make, like, $10,000 a week selling T-shirts, okay? So, I had all this money. And I'm going, what the hell am I going to do with all this money? I can't put it in my suitcase. What am I going to do with all this money? I mean, like, I had stacks of the Japanese. It was Japanese money. It's, like, huge, you know? Like, huge money. So, I go to the, the, the, the, the, the, I go to my boss, Mr. Matsumoto. And I told him, because don't problem talk to the treasurer, Mr. Konosugi was his name. I said, Mr. Konosugi, my T-shirt sales, Albus, money, yada, yada. He goes, no problem. Comes back. He has his Switzerland bank statement. In Japan, I could work for three weeks. I had a leave for 72 hours to my work permit. My left cycle, I threw to Switzerland, opened up a bank account. At the end of the week, I'd give Konosugi all the cash. He counted up. He sent it to Switzerland. I'd get a receipt. And then after three years in Japan, not a lot of money in Switzerland. But anyway, Japan, no, it was really great. We had the German Shepherd Show. And we would vary that every year, different types, like box searches. We did, with the dogs already there, I trained drill team obedience, fly ball, docks and racing. Gibby Show was really big. No, it was a great gig. I mean, I really loved entertaining the people, the joy on the people's faces. Because after the show, you could come down and pet all the shepherds, and they're good dogs, you know. I didn't bring no idiots there. And then at the third year there, after the second year, I went and got Rex from Fritz. And I came back, and I won the qualifier, but I couldn't go. I had to go back to work. And then, interesting story, I asked Haro Masuda, who was a great man. He was a Japanese man, German Shepherd guy, who won the World Championship, won the FCI World Championship. Great judge, needs to come here more. I asked Haro. Haro would come up to my place. We had a beautiful place up in the mountains.

Like, where they lived, it's all hot and humid and fucked up. It was like Switzerland, where we lived, man. Plus, I had indoor training, air conditioning, you know, track and everything. They'd come up to me. So I said, Haro, I want to go off to the Japanese team. And he goes, Dean, your grandkids could be here. You can't go on the Japanese team. And I said, why? It's because you're not Japanese. And that, you need to explore that part about the Japanese culture. I'm telling you. The younger people finally are changing. But they have severe racism to all other Asian cultures. Yeah, yeah. It's a very strong tradition. Yes. They call all foreigners gaijins. Okay. So at the park, we'd have maybe 15,000 people a day. All Japanese. But every once in a while, you hear, Ba-ba-ba-gaijin! Ba-ba-ba-gaijin! And they're telling you that maybe down by the horse area, there's three or four gaijins. Okay. We would go out to dinner. I'd take me and Todd and other people who were three later. We'd go sit like at the sushi restaurant. Nobody else is next to us because we were gaijin. Okay? Interesting. We would go sit on the train. We're on the train one time. We're sitting talking, talking, talking. Blind. This guy brings in his blind friend, sits him down. You know, the guy has a cane. We start speaking English. Guy gets up and goes to the other part of the train. They just, you've got to understand this. You know, they just. Yeah, I mean. They do not. And they're so closed, man. There's so much about the Japanese culture that, again, for me, I couldn't stand the way they treated women. It's disgusting. It's really. Every train station you get off in Japan at nighttime, all the Japanese kids, they wear uniforms. Every kid wears a uniform. And there's all these Japanese schoolgirls running around. But they're dressed kind of slutty. They're prostitutes. But this dressing is what appeals to guys. I mean, there's really a lot about the culture. The executives in my company, okay. On Friday night, they would go to Tokyo to the called the Ginza District. It's okay where all the bars are. And they would go there. I mean, the whole culture. They're the company man. The company pays for everything. And they would get drunk as snot. Yeah. I mean, that's the Japan culture. There is this one side of it that it's so much about entertainment and, like, just going in a rabbit hole. People think consumerism is bad. Here in Japan, my God. It's like, buy, buy, buy more, buy more, buy. And they'll waste money. They don't care. How was it with, like, I'm curious. And I know we're talking dogs. But, like, what did you guys eat?

What did you like as far as, like, the places to go to have good times? Yeah. What happened in Japan, a lot of companies will have apartment buildings for their employees, okay. Like a lot of sports teams, like professional sports teams. You live at the complex. You don't have, like, your own home, okay. And this place was way up in the mountains, so they had apartment buildings for the employees, okay. And in the apartment building, you have a 24-hour cafeteria, okay. In the park itself, they had Italian restaurant, French restaurant. It was a big place. Also, more than that, I had what my company was Maro Benai. Maro Benai, there's three large, seven large corporations that run Japan, okay. If you ain't in one of those corporations, you ain't ever going to get shit. If you don't get employed in one of those corporations, you ain't shit. I had a Maro Benai card. I can show that card anywhere in Japan and do anything I want. Anything. I show my Maro Benai card. I can go anywhere on the train. I can go anywhere I want to eat. I just can't go to the girly clubs in Gisha district because I'm not Japanese. But, anyway, about eating, I didn't. We would just go to town. It was rough because, I mean, you know, it was. I'm not. We're a crook story. We're there. This is the first time we're there. My girlfriend, Rosie, we're eating these salads. I really like them. We're going every night eating these salads. All of a sudden, Rosie starts screaming. I said, what? What? What? What? What? And what it is, they put minnows, like these little minnows in the salad. But a couple of them were still wiggling. Okay? Oh, yeah. Nah, I can't do that one. Another time, okay? At the park, they have, you know, 24-hour, you know, our cafeteria there. And I never ate. There were one night I had to eat there. It was in a rush. So I go down there, and the cook was so happy because I'm getting his food. You know what I'm saying? I put a fish on my plate and all this stuff. I go back to my room to eat it. They haven't gutted the fish. Okay? They haven't taken the guts out. And, I mean, you can't eat it, okay? So I'm like, shit, okay? I can't take it down and throw it away because then I knew enough because then the cook is going to lose space. It's disrespectful. Yeah, and he's fucked. And I can't do that. So I said, okay, I'm going to flush it down the toilet. Well, I clogged up the fucking toilet. Anyway, that's okay. That's okay. But, no, no, Japan is a different place. I really enjoyed entertaining the people. It was really fun. It was really fun, the children and stuff. It was really fun. Yeah, that's the thing.

Like, I think Japan, as much as I know, and what do I know, but there are people that also, they like entertainment in a different level, in my opinion. You know, they're also really, if you're, like with me. They can work hard. They can do whatever. But then they want to check out. They love Americans, okay? Like, you'll see American actors like Brad Pitt does commercials there that you'll never see here, okay? Right. They do publicity things all the time there that you'll never see here. I mean, I was always advertised as American champion, and that was, like, a big deal, okay? I went down to the Tokyo Giants, their best baseball team, and gave demonstrations before the baseball game there. That was a big deal, simply because they had another guy at the same time who was American champion golf balls. And he could hit golf balls outside the stadium. So, they love that kind of stuff. They love pizzazz. Oh, my God. You go into department stores in Japan, you get headaches from the noise. And da-da-da-da. What's difficult about the Japanese, what I found, though, is they're quiet people. They're closed. It's difficult. They don't open up very much. It's very hard in business with them. It's very difficult for them to come to agreement on things. Tremendous waste. I used to have to, for instance, I used to, Mauro Bena, a huge corporation, I had to go to these managers meetings. What? I'm a dog trainer. Why am I going to them? But you're a dog manager. So, I'd go to these dog managers meetings, these manager meetings. They had the head of GE come over, a famous guy from America, and he just tongue-lashed them all. I said, man, you guys, the way you run your businesses, you go into your Japanese offices, you see stacks and stacks of papers. You come back and look at that same desk. It's the same paper stacked up there. I mean, it's just, it's, you know, whatever. That's amazing. Yeah. It's, you know, they have real good dog sport there. They have really good interests. They have excellent dog sport. Haru Masuda, we talked about Ori earlier. Yes. Haru eventually bought Ori from Rajay, went on to win the WSV and the SAI with Ori. Ori went on in Japan to be an outstanding producer. I saw many Ori sons in Japan. It takes two to tango. And the mother wasn't so much of nothing, yet the dog itself was outstanding. Ori could produce a better dog than himself. A perfect example of that was that dog, Quarry, that he's made in his brother, that Quarry Antwerpa. In my opinion, probably one of the best, if not the best, in all aspects. I like a physically attractive dog, too. It was one of the nicest dogs I ever saw.

He was also, he wasn't in Japan. He was first sold to Japan, then on to Taiwan. But another one, just marvelous. Man, what a cool times. I'm going to switch it off again. We are in Italy. You're my team. You're my team captain. I'm about to go and do protection with Kenny. I'm like, oh, maybe we should do protection. Maybe we shouldn't do training. And there is then, yeah, let's do protection. Mark put the sleeve on. Mark put the sleeve on. And I'm thinking, we'll just make a, just a quick in and out, just to warm up. Mark gives him a bite. I make an out. My dog's not outing. Do you remember this? Yeah, I remember. That was the day before I had to show up. Yeah, I remember. And I was fucking shocked. I'm like, what is going on? And then Mark is like, he felt bad because he's thinking, am I doing something wrong? Like, I'm going to ruin the fucking thing. But then you and I get on the podium. And it's a moment that I cannot forget. We won the world championship. And you were next to me drinking champagne. Dude. You know, Ivan, actually, do you remember, we went over to that Italian club to work your dog? Remember that? And the guy had that real dry Italian wine. And we had to drink that stuff all the time. Remember? And Ivan, really, I do remember, bless your heart, you were so nervous. Bless your heart, man. Fuck. You were just like, that fucking dog ain't going to out. I know he's going to out. I know he ain't going to out. You have to mark. You're like, Mark, you've got to help me. You don't want to let go. You don't want to let go. I remember. That was a good one. Oh, he had this thing about, like, this feels so good. You know, Ivan, more than that, too. Both you and Dave Corrier, your dogs track great. They gave you some hard fucking tracking, man. That was tough. No, you guys tracked really, I was very impressed, man. It was about tracking. It really was about tracking. Yes. Yeah, right. I know what you're saying. And especially coming out from you, because you are one of the few people, and this is sincere, like you know tracking. And when, so there is tea, there is, you know, there are people in the country and have different ideas about how it should be done. Talk to me about your tracking a little bit, because it really is. Yeah. You know, with, really, with tracking, there's two things. There's two ways, okay? First, now I'll be real frank. I did learn the correct way to put pressure on the dog, to make him track what I say you must track, not because you want to, but you must, okay? I learned that from Reinhard Lentner, okay?

And I'm going to interject something now, don't you talk to me about that person in America who everything's just so fucking great. When he won that FH championship, I laid that track. So don't talk to me about that shit, okay? But Reinhard Lentner, because he had compassion, he knew how to use pressure with compassion, okay? With that being said, though, to me, it was just very, for instance, nowadays, the local, the big hero, and I'm glad, it's Lars Lentz, and he says lots of good things, okay? But everybody's like, do you know what Lars says? You make these deep footprints, and you put the food down there. Well, dude, we were doing that 40 years ago. That ain't new, okay? Another thing that Reinhard taught me, excuse me, that Fritz taught me more. Once you, the dog, first of all, this is an old German saying, a great tracking dog is a reflection of the work ethic of the handler. It's the slowest learning curve. You can take a dog, and in like three weeks or so, four weeks, he's going to heal as good as he's going to heal the rest of his life. It ain't that way in tracking. It's work. The dog, a lot of it is you allowing the dog to train its, to learn, to train itself. Once a dog gets to a place, and I could talk about that word, can track, the ability to create problems that the dog can solve, this, this maybe is an art form. I believe this about art. I don't believe a monkey with a watercolor is art. I believe someone like Michelangelo, who studied geometry in sculpture, and got that piece of marble, and then make that beautiful statue of David. It wasn't random shit, you understand? And it's the same thing with anything, like with tracking. You have your experience, you have your craft, but then you use that technique to turn it into an art. But then later on, I think a lot of people, they don't use the ball enough to reward the dog in the track. They don't make problem solving with the dog, where the dog can problem solve. They're too afraid also to, guess what? Sometimes you make 85, but if you still got good, you know, 94 obedience, 96 protection, you're going to, you're going to, you've got a chance, okay? Right. You know, T says this, when they give you those V tracks, you get V, okay? But you got to pass the hard ones too. And a lot of people simply don't go and track the dog in a hard field. There's, I see this, I go tracking with people all the time. The minute the dog makes a mistake, they correct it. The dog has no faith in itself to work out a problem. None whatsoever. None whatsoever, okay? The dog has to trust you and have faith in you, okay?

To have the freedom to resolve a problem when the problem comes. Yes, yes. He's not going to, he's not going to pencil every track, okay? You're going to have bad luck sometimes. Your track is the hard one of the day. It's the way it is. But, man, people need to get out there and, again, work those hard tracks too. Dude, I love talking to you. Go on. No, no. You know, and again, I'm very happy that Lars Lenz is out there teaching people, but he's teaching people. A lot of times in dogs, what I see things to me are very basic, that people don't even know the basics. You understand? And without those basics, they're making jumps ahead. And consequently, they have huge gaps. It might look fantastic within that context, but when problems arise, dog doesn't understand, all of a sudden, it falls apart. Start, don't lay straight lines all the time. And tracking, sorry to interrupt you, but it just came to me from what you're saying, and I'm sure you will go over this, but tracking is the phase about problem solving. Yes. Teaching your dog how to fucking problem solve. Nobody cares about the hundred points on a moonwalk field. Right, right, right. And again, so many people, you know, I'm happy that Lars, I assume, I know this, bend the tracks, start off with a circle, get the pace quieter in the dog, in other words, slower, okay? Really good impressions in the ground, okay? Don't, you know, you've got to track where you live, but understand if you're in California, and you're always tracking that visual dirt, it's a fool's game. That's a fool's game, guys. That's a fool's game, okay? When I lived in California, always before the world, if I could get my dog tracking perfect on a lawn, cut grass, can't see shit, I knew he was ready to rock, okay? And I still hold those principles, okay? But also in the beginning, I have to say something. You have to have excellent tracking so the dog can have, again, success, success, success. If you're tracking like you live in wherever it might be, and the tracking is just so hard, your dog will track, but I don't think you're going to get the type of behavior that we want, okay? The style. You can train your dog to bite the sleeve, and that's no big deal. But you need a helper who understands some things to get the behaviors that we want in gripping. And that's one of the reasons why I live in Ohio. Really, I've been that way for a long time. I live where it's best for my dogs, okay? In Ohio, it lacks a little bit in the dirt tracking. We don't have the bugs here. The climate is vital. The dogs must have wintertime, the German Shepherd dog. We don't have the bugs here.

We don't have the humidity. On my farm here, Ivan, I got outside my door, I got 10 acres. And the dirt here is so down south, you got that clay soil. And that shit don't grow. That's why they grew what they did back in the day, because they couldn't grow anything else, okay? Here, the soil is so rich, and the grass just gets so thick. What I'm saying is I'm giving my dog an opportunity in the beginning to have tremendous success. And then later, because he's on great conditions, his mistakes warrant corrections. You understand? Right, right, right, right. We can talk a little bit now about go, about where the dog must go. I went recently to a seminar, and I'm very happy they had it. It was a Doberman seminar, and they brought a very experienced Doberman trainer from Europe. And it was really good, because he said some very basic things that people need to know, okay? Very basic things. And especially in the Doberman world, bestless people's hearts. Come on. Okay, this is something so many years ago we learned. This basic thing. You have your good puppy. Throw the toy out in front in the bushes, in the weeds. You can't see it. And when you say get it, you pop that leash forward. He grabs that thing, you praise him. Pretty soon, that sensation of that forward is no longer negative. It's now positive, dudes. And then later on, when you go popping forward, that means go. It's so simple. If you just do that before. And this is something that's, I mean, come on. Don't you people know how to use toilet paper no more? You know? I mean, come on. I don't see people. They don't even know how to do that. And this European guy was showing people that in the context. They're teaching a puppy, you know, you bite the thing, and then you hold it. What I would call it, the top on the shoulder. You know, you can use that same thing right there, you know? But that simple thing, people are like, wow, wow. But, again, and later on, okay, you can use that same principle with the ball, okay? One of anybody, anybody, anybody in this nation. And, by the way, guys, like, I'm going to ask him in a second about tracking. But, I mean, he knows his thing. You know, again, like I always say, the proofs and the points. The only one to make 99 points of the WC was T. Floyd, okay? I'm telling you, if somebody would spend two or three days with T doing tracking, you could learn so much. You could learn so much, okay? I mean, truly, truly, you could learn so much about what he knows, okay? And the proof's in the points, okay? The proof is in the points. This is Dean Calderon's all time. So important. It really, like, stop bullshitting.

Stop showing me what you do in training. The proof is in the points. Right. You know, and I understand, you know, man, I know a really great trainer in Europe. I'm not going to say anything. He can't show dogs. He just gets too nervous, bless his heart. But that's fine. But also, if you want to promote your opinions, you better have some points. That's all I got to say. You know, you see it all over Facebook. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you. But, you know, put the sleeve on your hero. Good for you. Those are your points. That's all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Dean, what's your favorite face? I know that's a very common question. But, yeah, what is your favorite face in shoot swing? Well, I still, I love to go tracking. You know, I love to go out in the nature. Tracking, I mean, there's been instances in tracking where the dog amazes me. It's like, how the shit do you do? I could bite that sleeve. I could get that dumbbell. I can't track you down. It's really cool. It amazes me. And I still love, because I'm still physically able to do this, I love the beginning protection work with young, good young dogs, you know, teaching barking and gripping and these things. I really like that a lot. When they don't know who they are, but they are actually somebody, right? It's really, and to me, you know, it's really easy to do, you know. And also, there's some things I'm very adamant about. You're not going to change me, okay? And some of the beginning stuff in protection work, you're not going to change me. And I still find that very much fun. And just let me say something right now, which is very important to me. My new obedience coach, to watch this woman train dogs, this man, it just makes joy in my soul, okay? How she can, what's the biggest problem we have in obedience? Maintaining drive state. The dog, you know, he looks all pumped up for a minute or two, then all of a sudden, come time, second dumbbell, third dumbbell, he's a turkey, okay? Your finishes are slowing down, everything's like, yeah. How do you maintain that drive state, okay? Man, to watch her train, it's an amazing thing. What is her background? Is it Schutzhund or something? No, she's just a pet trainer, Ivan. Okay, okay. And I'm not going to say her name right now. No, no, that's cool. I'm trying to get, she won't, just to get her, Mark was doing a little seminar in Pittsburgh, if you would too, and get her to go to that thing. It was hard for her, because she's hard for her to get out in front of people, you understand? But Ivan, I'm telling you, this girl's talent. Talent.

And if you watch her, and then you, she's got this year old Malama. I ain't going to brag, but you just wait. You just wait till you see this year old Malama this girl's got. Holy Toledo! Go on my Facebook page and watch some of the controls she demonstrates. Not only can she put the dog in this tremendous drive state and obedience that it knows nothing else, okay? But you can see how, we all know that the reward of gripping and protection is great to the dog. It rewards behavior. They love this shit, okay? But what happens, it haunts all of us, controlling that mad animal and protection, okay? You watch her, go on my Facebook page, watch her German Shepherd dog, watch the control she has by using the grip rewards that she uses, because they have almost as equal value to the dog as biting the helper. You understand? You understand? I took a dog a few years ago. They couldn't train him in Holland. Big, mean motherfucker. And I just brought out the ball. And every time he did something right in protection, I gave him a ball. And then pretty soon, I offered the lady $25,000. She wouldn't sell him. But it's even a better level than this. That's all I got to say. I like it so much. That's so cool to get excited where you're at. We always look for this moment in time. Yes. It makes me feel good that you can see that, because believe me, I'm just busting my buttons, man. And what's cool too now, I mean, it's really, I like so much about it. I like, I just, I like the way she's training, the way the drive state is maintained in the dog, the intellectual approach to it. It expands the dog's brain tremendously, where every word you say to that dog really means something. It really means something. Then after that, it's your control and protection is not going to be such a deal. It's not going to be such a problem. It's not going to, it's not always with the collar and first, you know, how many times, five-year-old dog, let's shock him again. He won't foots. Shock him again. He still won't, won't run the blinds. Well, let's shock him again. And every training session is just a fucking mess. I know. No, no, no. That's what I, I, I, I, I walk away. Yeah. You know, a lot of people, again, they, they jump ahead too soon. You know, they jump ahead. You know, there has to be, I, I saw a little bit on your Facebook about something you wanted to talk to somebody, ask somebody what it was about. And they said, this fellow doesn't think you should correct dogs or something. And everybody knows that's kind of stupid. You know, that's just like stupid, you know, and especially in what we do, because first

of all, I mean, the dog has no right from wrong, but there's a whole premise before, but this whole, does the pack leader never correct the dog? I mean, come on, physically, come on. Of course he does. Of course he does. And this gives him respect. The dog is a physical creature. He must physically respect you. Okay. He must physically, his pack drive in your tough dogs are going to always make him challenge, challenge. I got pack drive. I want to be pack leader. I want to be pack leader. And sometimes you got to know you can't push those buttons. But on the other hand, if you want to talk primitive, you can say the dog's afraid of me. I don't talk about that. My dog respects me because I'm the pack leader. That's where the art comes. That's where the, like, somebody that doesn't have the heart to love dogs can go off the rail very quick. Right? Yes. You know, the thing is, too, about, again, about, you know, corrections is technique. Okay? And you have to see it being done. You have to see when it's being done. It really helps to have someone explain to you when it's done. You know, I've seen tremendous obedience demonstrated where the trainer has used, like, no so-called modern techniques. You know what I'm saying? And just used a lot of pressure. And the dog works really well. But, you know, Ivan, when I train dogs, really, it's not about the trophies and all that shit. It's about me and my dog having fun. Even back in the day. That's why I didn't like a lot of those Germans. Because that, to me, wasn't fun. That's not fun. Okay? That's not fun. I want my dog to enjoy itself. I put him in the car. I made him go there. You know? Come on. You know? Yeah. No, no. No, no. Yeah, no. You're so right. Like, the whole, the beauty, I think, of doing things with a dog is to do something together and to allow the dog to flourish. Yes. And guide them. Yes. And this is where the corrections come. It's not to go in a war and abuse and whatever. It's to say, dude, that's the wrong way. Come here. Right. Right. The problem is, too, is, again, people, they don't understand, because they can't read dogs well, they don't understand the level of correction necessary. Sometimes it's just a verbal no. Okay? Sometimes it might be a kick in the ass. I don't know. Bad choice. Just recently, a woman came to me in tracking, and they used a collar on down in the articles. So, why do I want to track no more? What are you doing shocking them with the article on the down? It's not that hard. There are ways to make them lay down. Okay? But, you know, in reality, we must always, with the new people, you know, tell them that this is part of it.

You know, that if you don't want to be involved in this, I don't see a path where you can get away from no corrections. I just don't see that. You know? And I've had a lot of... I mean, trial and error. That's, you know, like... You talk to me about... I want somebody to tell me that I'm on the wrong path. Yes. I... Please tell me I'm on the wrong path, because I don't want to be there. You know, you talked about the old days in California. I used to have a training, big training group at the Naval Hospital in Oakland. Huge group. Okay? I used to go there sometimes. Remember the lights? Great baseball field. Yes. Anyway, so... We were trained all night there. Yeah. It was a great place. Anyway, one of the women in the group was from Berkeley. You know, Berkeley hippie, all that shit. She brought two council people from Berkeley to watch. These people were polite, but they had a shit fit. They had a shit fit about the corrections and biting and the whole thing. To them, it was just like, what are you... Why are you... You know, they just couldn't get it. What the fuck is going on? Yes. And like, okay, for me, I don't like to train in... You know, now I don't ever train in front of people in the park. Maybe just fucking around obedience or something. But I used to have a really nice training field in my little town here at the park. I didn't like it so much because there was people there all the time, you know. Now I have a training field in my little village. There's nobody there. Nobody can see. Good job. You know, good place. So, back to the question. Because right now, we went through all three phases and they're all important. But if you really have to pick one, which one is where your heart is? Well, I mean, you know, protection is easy, really. That's not such a big deal. I mean, I wish... I'll answer it this way. Okay. I wish I was a better obedience trainer. I wish my dogs... I wish I could make my dogs understand sooner and better what I want them to do. Okay. Tracking, to me, no longer is like a... A lot of people, tracking is a mystery. It's like, whoa, what is this weird shit? To me, I'm pretty confident about what I want to do and when I want to do it, you know. And it's very... It really... Believe me, this is... Takes me to... Like Reiser says, tracking is my religion. And it's kind of like that, you know. It's a really... It's a feeling of peacefulness, of feeling the dog. And, I mean, it's... I like being... And, again, I just don't go tracking in the morning. That's another thing people don't do. Right. I mean, I'll go out when it's 100 degrees. Maybe I don't make a huge track. But you're going to track.

I don't care if it's 100 degrees. You're going to track. You know, I mean, Ivan, I love to see really good dumbbell work. I mean, really correct dumbbell. You never see it. I know. You never see anybody make three V-rated dumbbells. You don't. It's hard. It's the hardest training to do. It's hard. And especially if you want me to tell you what's V, not whoever. Okay? Dog can't touch you with the... I mean, first of all, no part of that dog's body can go past that dumbbell. Once that dog touches that dumbbell, he can never chew it. It can never be chewed. Okay? When you come front, he can't. And then after that, the way you work it. You know? No chewing. No touching. I mean, all that shit. And the presentation. Yes. And the letting go. Yes. And fucking... You know, and you rarely ever see it done right. You know, where the handler presents it right. Okay? And then you get away. And to me, this is... We talk about the stick hits. Okay? Which is not even close to what I'm going to discuss. It's about... Taken that way is about being a negative. But the negative of judges allowing dogs touching you with the dumbbell. Right. Demand better training. You know why our dogs have gotten... This is... This is... This is being telling you the fucking truth. Okay? You know why our dogs got better. I'll tell you something right now. Just look at the points. Early 90s. The German National Championship. Over half the dogs make V in protection. And you're watching this shit. You're like, what the fuck? You watch the World Championship. All these dogs, half grips. All this shit making V in protection. What is all this stuff? Okay? Then they voted in Jürgen Ritzy as chief as... No. They voted in Hans Rudenauer as chief judge in Germany. Everybody freaked out. Hans Rudenauer. He was like a Nazi. I can tell you good Hans Rudenauer stories too. Good ones. So anyway, so what does he do? He has Ritzy judge protection at the Bundesseger. That your Ritzy judges... No dog makes V in protection. One dog makes SG... The highest was 95 points of bitch in protection. Great story about that. A few years later, at the World Champion, especially Doug Deacon, Pierre, the direction of Rudenauer and some other key judges. The grips have to be like it says the dog must arrest because Roger went out and demonstrated like it's supposed to be in 91. And then Rudenauer said this is the way it's supposed to be. And what I'm trying to say is their great interpretation of the correct interpretation of what the rules are is why we have the quality and the protection work we have now. Okay. And I went up to Doug Deacon and Pierre 20 years ago, knocked on their table and said,

thank you for your correct evaluations of protection phase. Because the protection phase, we discussed it, is a manifestation of temperament. It's right there in front of you. Man, I tell you, like some of the... And just like you, I mean, I've done it for so long. I've had 98 under Rudenauer. I've had 93 on obedience with Juergen Ritzy. And like those points matter to me, you know? Yeah, yeah. Real quick story about Rudenauer. The FCI championship in whatever year it was, 03, 04. Okay. Me and T were on the team during the Shepherd Dogs. After Saturday, me and T are first and second. T's first, 196. I'm second, 99, 95. We are the kings. We go to the banquet. We're walking around. It's like, man, these American dudes are going to win this shit. They're doing that. And then you're going to be close, okay? Next day, we've got to do protection. And me and T both know Rudenauer's out there. And me and T look at each other and go, yeah, let's just see what happens tomorrow. I got 90, T got 82. But anyway, that's okay. And then Peter Jacobs' dog ran all over the stadium. He got 96. But that's okay because he's German. Right. That's okay. Anyway. But I'll tell you another good story about Rudenauer's. Long story Rudenauer's story. Rudenauer's wife, Erica, who just passed away. Beautiful woman. Beautiful, lovely woman. Had a dog named Ollie who won the Bundesliga. About two or three weeks before the Bundesliga, they trained with Helmut Koning. Okay. I was there. And Ollie would come in and punch in the blind and punch in the blind and punch in the blind. Helmut looks at me. Gives me the sleeve. Gives me the stick. Ollie comes around the blind. I put the stick on that motherfucker's head, not just once, not just twice. I backed his ass out of that blind. Rudenauer almost comes out of his shoes at me. Okay. So a little bit of cussing, a little bit of screaming, a little bit of Rudenauer grabbing my shirt. Okay. So, okay, fine. Three weeks later or two weeks later, Ollie wins the Bundesliga, 97 in protection. Those days I did it. I get a telegram from Rudenauer. Dean, thank you very much for cleaning up our topic in the blind. That was a good one. Yeah. Sometimes it's a hard call to make. You know, the thing about Rudenauer, really, what modern people need to understand is that Rudenauer was one of the keys to clean up our dog sport. In the early 90s, the points were ridiculous. They were giving the points away. It was stupid. It was stupid. Okay. It was really bad. And everybody knew this. There were so many in everything, not just in protection and everything. And Rudenauer was Rudenauer ritzy.

And he got Pierre, got some international guys behind him and said, no, we're going to judge this shit right. And believe me, from what they did, their evaluations, because people judged, they breed to what you have to win with. I'm telling you, that's why we have what we have now. No, no, for sure. That's this type of judging raises the criteria. Yes. For us to do better. Exactly. And that's why I talk about the judging in the dumbbells, you know. Right. To make people better. It's easy. In the old days to teach fronts, we put the prong collar on the dog and we jam him into our stomach and give him a piece of food. Then the dog would learn real quick. If I ran to your stomach, that's a safe place. Okay. But that was, he's not to touch you. You got to be a better dog trainer than that. Okay. Got to be a better, better way. A more, let's even say this word, a more humane way to do it. Right. With the dog. Okay. And again, you know, so. It is amazing to me that whomever, I don't, I don't know, maybe you know how the whole shoot's going points came about. But the old points were very, very, very good. You know, because we all recognize already way before everything that the dumbbell, the retrieve is such a complex exercise. And that's why it has so many points. The old, the old style long attack where you go run away and come back. The attack out of the blind. Like there were, there were some really like, like good tests for, for training. And also the ability of the genetic predisposition of dogs. Like this is, and I don't know how shoot's going came about appreciating those moments. Right. You know, again, I love history. Okay. And culture. And it's amazing to me about how this developed out of a German culture. You know, really amazing. The discipline of a sport, you know, when you read the beginning books about this was not a sport for your poor person. Okay. You couldn't afford to feed your dog, but such your family. Okay. This was a sport more for well-to-do people. Let's not talk about police. Let's do it. It was just a sport. Okay. I always say this. Okay. If it wasn't for Hitler, it would all have been Germans. Okay. The Germans really, their culture, it really has a root of really good discipline. A really good step-by-step ship, you know, structure. This is this. This is this. And then you do this. You can't do this unless you do this. It amazes you when you go to Germany how clean it is. You know what I'm saying? Those type of things, you know. And, again, how this developed. And when you read, you read some, there's a very interesting video. And you still can find it.

It's like from 36, 37 at the German Shepherd Seeger show in Germany. The police come out, and they're doing obedience at the same time protection is going on. And this, like, amazed everybody, you know. And it just shows you that maybe there's not really that much new under son. But, again, and it's also back to you about the points. To me, I can really see how those points can illustrate different aspects of the dog's temperament. You understand? Right. You know, the healing and the field exercise. What I mean by field. Sit down and stand in motion. Those show the ability, the trainability, the eagerness of the dog wanting to work. Okay. It shows its reflexes, its natural reflexes. Okay. This is why you have to be. This is what I like so much is finding those judge understand that extreme healing with the nose in the air underneath your armpit. That can also be a press drive state. In other words, that was made with severe electric collar. You understand? And that dog is too stressed in that position. It's very difficult to describe it here. It's easier to be seen. There was a particular dog at the qualifier. And this was, to me, was one of the high points of that dice judging is him making that example of this dog. Everybody thought it was so impressive. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was pressed into that state. Yeah. Through the e-collar. Through the e-collar. Okay. There was no, no. But I forgot what we were talking. I'm sorry. No, no. No. No. It's very. And then again, the dumbbells. Sure. The dog has natural retrieving instinct. Okay. But again, that also shows the dog's ability to be molded. All of our sport. Every, all of our sport. We have instincts that we mold into disciplined behaviors. And we must have dogs that have that kind of training level to be able to be molded and trained. You just want some mad fucking beast. What is he going to do for you? Nothing. Okay. On the other hand, you don't want a wimp who can't take the stress of training. Right. They can't, they can't take the structure. A lot of dogs. It's a lot easier for let them have a little bit crooked fronts. Let them bump you. Let them be a little bit sloppy. You make them tight. Oh Lord. I don't want to be tight. I can't be tight. I can't concentrate like that. That makes my, that stresses me to have that level of concentration. Yeah. There is that thing about the sport that I really like. It's also recognizing your ability, recognizing who is your dog and knowing, like knowing very well the points. So you can play that chess game. Yes. Yes. You know? Yes. And, you know, people have to understand, nobody ever gets 300 points in this sport.

Nobody ever does. And that's cool. Okay. So when you have, you know, your dog's limits and, you know, you've attained that, hey, you know, like back in the day when I went to the nationals, I didn't ever, I don't want to, I wanted to make a V. That's what I wanted was a V overall, you know? But I would always figure, I mean, come on, Dean, you're going to make V in the track. You, my point was always obedience. That's where it was my weak place. That's where I had to keep up. Okay. But I knew my dog's limits. You know? I didn't live in a fantasy world about what my, my last, my last really good dog, my Dogman Keeper. I knew what he was, you know? I mean, he was, he was, it was like cheating. It was like a golden retriever. You know what I'm saying? But I knew his limits. I knew he, in protection, okay, that dog never made V in protection. Never. I showed him 10 times, 10 different fields, 10 different helpers, 10 different judges. He always made over 90, okay? He didn't have that innate fighting drive kind of shit that a Dogman needs to have, okay? And so consequently, I got out of him what I think, I attained what I think was probably the highest level I could. He had to be there, okay? And so that was, you know, to me, to me, believe me, dogs is about my success and what I think I can. I don't need no judge to tell me what I'm doing. Those days are gone, okay? I know what I did. It feels good, okay? You say I'm a good, did a good job. That feels good. But I know what I did, okay? And I'm competing against what I think I can attain with my dog. Really, that's the deal. That's the deal. That's so well said. So well said. You know, you're not, I mean, sure, back in the day when I was young, I used to love to beat the Germans. And especially, I had a hard-on about those guys from that other place in America. I just used to love to snoop. That's another day, another story. But no, no, it's about your, you know, that's what's so great about your dog, too. You're such a team, you know? It's, anyway, go ahead. No, it's really like a, it's kind of like a fighter, like a boxer or whatever, you know? Like you don't want to push him to a break point. That's a huge problem always with training. This is like probably the number one problem for everybody that wants to accomplish very high goals. I'll tell you a story. When we tied at the Nationals and you beat me because you had higher protection, okay? The day before in training, we'd go out to train, okay? And my Rex, he was kind of crazy, kind of crazy. And I didn't really trust him all this much, okay? So he went and punched him the blind. T's doing the helper work.

T goes, Dean, come in again. I'm going to club him. I don't know, T. I don't know, man. I'm on the grip. I don't know, T. I don't know. I know you should do this. He goes, dude, we need to club him. You know how T is. That's as hard. So T does what I say. You don't club him. Comes in the blind and Nationals punches the helper and you win. Yes. But again, I said that because about limits and stuff, you know? And one of my weak points, believe me, all my friends will tell me this, that sometimes Dean is too soft on the dogs is maybe a word. Or maybe doesn't trust him maybe as much as he should is maybe another word, okay? Well, one thing about you over the years, man. You appreciate the dog you have at the moment. Like you love doing the things you love with the dog, with the moment, and you know who that dog is. So you're very careful about not breaking that dog. Yeah, yeah. You know, they don't shit gold. They don't shit gold, you know? And truly, especially our quality animals, they are trying the best they can. Yes. They're trying the best they can, okay? And it's just our inability to communicate to them what we want them to do, all right? But, you know, especially in our German Shepherd dogs, that's the breed I know a little bit about. The other breeds I've just trained them, I can talk minutely about them. But most of our good German Shepherds are medium to medium-high dogs, okay? That through good obedience where the dog trusts you, of course the dog has natural instincts, good athletic. You have a good helper who can take that, like you discussed, that boundary farther and farther and farther. Consequently, you have a biddable dog, a dog who's fun and easy to train, okay? And everybody, I'm going to say one thing to you young people. Don't be so locked and my dog is so tough and my dog is this and my dog is that. Okay, my last competition dog, Ivan Remembers' dog, my Verde, you couldn't beat him in the track in obedience. He'll stomp your ass. I couldn't control that motherfucker in protection, okay? And I got sick of it. Last time I showed that dog in the regionals in California, I got 99, 96, 81. And that 81 was a gift. And I just got tired of it. And Fritz Beeler told me when I bought him, his mother was Rex's sister. Fritz told me, Dean, this dog is too crazy. You don't want him. He's got to screw loose. And, I mean, it was just a fight all the time in protection. The other two phases, I could do it naked. But, no, you don't want dogs like that. Right away, if you test a dog and he's got a shitty grip, don't take it. Don't take it. Verde was like that.

Mark, if he was right now, he'd be laughing and punching me. Just the other day when Mark worked my Doberman for the first time, he gives it a grip and he goes, well, damn, I wish Verde grip like that. Oh, I love it. I love it. I want to give your message to the young trainers. Because, you know, like guys, like today they start to, they get, I feel like there are so many young people that are going in and they want to do their best. But they're getting lost of trying to, who do I learn from? What can I, how much I can push my dog? You know, like all these things that are so important. Right, right. You know, first of all, you know, young person, it's a tough game, okay? Because first of all, you have to have an element of trust for people at the club. Before you go to a club, I would go to different clubs and just look and just watch. Also, too, one thing about me in my life, I've never, I'm blunt, and I will come right to your face and tell you what I think. Ask them this question. If I train with you, can I go train with somebody else? And if they say no, I'd leave. I'd leave. Nobody, you know, there's more than one good brain surgeon in this world. There's more than one good trainer, okay? Go to seminars. Don't always volunteer your dog, but watch. If you learn something you don't like, hey, you learn something. But if you don't go, you ain't going to learn. With that being said, though, you have to have a path. You have to have a path that you try to stay on. You just can't go to a seminar and say, oh, I'm just going to do this new thing I learned. Yeah, because there is the seminar hopping type of person, right? You've got to have some faith in your training director, his path, okay? I think a lot of clubs could do a much better job in structure as far as training is concerned. I go some places. I rarely do seminars anymore. But I go some places, and I see what happens, and I just, man, what? What? What are you doing? Why? What? There's no structure here. People, the only way you get a title is, it's like when I was young, the only way I got a title is, I was crazy. Like, I'm going to do this shit. There was nobody to teach me, you understand? I just got a book and started yanking. And there needs to be better structure at the clubs for that. There needs to be more regional training seminars to try to get people out of those Jim Jones situations. You know, Jim Jones, the guy, drink my Kool-Aid, don't go anywhere else. To break that move. Also to teach people. I'm the last one to say this because I'm not good to play with others. But to teach a community spirit on the local level.

First starts on the local level. You understand? Within our region, okay? That we have this community. There needs to be more regional work days. One thing we used to have in California, we would have something called the Shuts in One Championship. Okay? I know. One dog would do tracking. One dog would do obedience. One dog would do protection. Shit, we'd have. And that way, like, your old dog could track. Or maybe you just want to do obedience with your dog. But you get people out there having fun, okay? We used to have protection tournaments in California to raise money for the team. At nighttime, we'd have 50 dogs out there, you know? And leadership is taught from the top. Example is taught from the top. You just don't sit there and go, ooh. You preach. You say. I don't understand why USA has no mission statement when you open up the magazine. I've been saying this for 30 fucking years. What is our mission statement with these dogs in America? What is our purpose being here? Finally, USA is biting the bullet a little bit about some things like registering and these things. But let me get back to your stuff. Go to seminars, okay? Don't have a closed mind, okay? Don't be afraid. This is one of the first things that Reinhardt Lintner ever said to me. There's no dumb questions. There's only dumb answers. So don't be afraid to answer no questions. There's only dumb. And if somebody insults you because you answer a question, he's an asshole. You understand? There's another saying in Germany. He's a dog guy. You help him. What does that mean? You share all the information you have. Listen. This is the only thing I know to do. So sometimes you've got to pay me money for me to open my mouth. But I'll run my mouth for free all the time, okay? If he's a dog guy, you help him, okay? You help him, all right? Every guy, every person in this sport, go to the fucking gym and stop being so fat. Jesus Christ. This is a sport. This is a sport. Try to lose some weight, okay? Don't talk to me about your thyroid. Christ almighty. And you helpers who are tired after two dogs. Come on. Ivan, you saw me when I was young. I could work 50 dogs every day, okay? Come on. Dude, you work way more than 50 dogs. You know, come on. Don't tell me you're tired. Don't tell me that. You know? But again, go to seminars. There's, you know, this is competitive. It is very difficult today, though. You know, like with social media. And you watch these little clips from some super work. It can get confusing. Yes. You know, it's, you know, again, I don't watch videos. And I've never, you know, I don't do that stuff. You know, I just live this quiet life on my farm.

But if you could, you know, somebody, you find a training program. You like that training program online. You see other students who've taken that training program. There's proof that's in front of your eyeballs. That's a good place for you, okay? So, because there's continuity there, okay? But also, too, because it's competitive, go to seminars. See there's something to learn. One thing in the beginning about the protection phase. I want only one helper to develop my dog. The helper trains my dog in the beginning, okay? He reads the dog. I have one helper work my dog. Once my dog shows such consistent level of what I want with that helper, then I might interject another helper. Not to mention when I have a super dog, there's something called safety. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry is going to be catching my dog on that long one, okay? Another thing, people, you want to not be very conceited. I've won tracking three times at the world. I don't know how many times the nationals I've won tracking. Because I won't tonight, but tomorrow I'm going to track my dog three times, okay? You've got to work. You've got to work. Anything that in life is great is hard work. If it's not hard work, it's not great. It's not great. It's not great. Only through hard work is their greatness. And, you know, guys, one quick thought. The success is not you. The success is that dog, the trust he has in you, okay? The relationship you have, the faith. You know, I'm not a parent. I don't have a kid, you know? But it must be an amazing feeling when that child looks at you and trusts you and has faith in you and knows that their parents could never do no harm. And their parents are always going to trust them. And it must be even on a bigger level with the dog, even a bigger level. So, you know, you think about that, too, okay? And also, too, don't be afraid to question the judge. If he won't answer you, there's no dumb questions. There's only dumb answers. Good ones. Very good ones. Okay. Because when we go training and we do all that stuff, at the end of the day, you go back home and there is your dog hanging out with you. Yeah. And that's what it's about. You know, also, you young people, don't be collecting dogs. Don't have a bunch of dogs, man. Don't do that. I know puppies are cute. Don't do that, okay? Don't get caught in that trap. I was in three years. Now we got five dogs. No. No. No. Also, too, once a dog is about three or four thinking about getting a new one because he could break real quick. So that happens, too. Something with the seminars. I just thought about, you know, like you have to stick through the whole seminar.

Don't make judgment what happens in the first day. Pay attention and see what happens in the end. Yes. You know, Ivan, you make a really good point there. And, again, the seminar that I just went to, I should have stuck around. I left after the first day because it was just kind of dull to me, okay? And that was wrong because at that point I had to realize who I was in this world and I was showing a little bit of disrespect. You understand? Okay. And what you said is vital because, again, if you learn one thing and that one thing might come in the last five minutes, but also, too, if you start to, then you'll start to hopefully see some continuity in the presentation. Okay? That it does make sense that these things, you know, what did Godfrey Dildo used to say something? He was really cute. He goes, what did he say? You do that enough, he'll eventually do it. But it's kind of like that, you know? But, again, go. Have an open mind. Stay for the whole thing, like Ivan said. Ask questions, okay? And also, too, there can't be 10 hours of chalkboard. Right. You've got to get out there and do something, okay? It's like any other sport. It's monkey see, monkey do. You know, we mentioned Roger Schohars. I pronounced his name really wrong from Belgium. Great doctrine. I mean, one of the greatest in the world. But he don't talk so much about dog training. But you watch him train his dog, Polly Toledo, you know? Or watch him do helper work when he was a young man. Wow! He can't talk so much about it, okay? That's where someone like Riser, he'll wear you out. But that's his business, you know? But you've got to see it. You've got to see it. Yes. Man. What a conversation. I've been looking forward to this for so long. You know, Ivan, we've really never sat and talked like this for a great length of time, you know? I just want to tell you, Ivan, you provide such a good example for people in this world, okay, about what our dog sport can be, how enjoyable it can be, okay? Also, too, it's just, and this is my impression, that you try to present people with programs that's within their capabilities, okay? For instance, I talk about my new obedience trainer, an older person who wasn't very physical, couldn't do it. Somebody who was like in a wheelchair, maybe they couldn't do a lot of that shit, okay? But again, there has to be a program that's broad that a lot of people can do, not just, you know? Right. You know, and that's a good, and then once you have that broad base, then you can venture out into, you know, you understand? And get a little bit more here, a little bit more there, a little bit more here.

You know, it's like when people come, people come to me, Dean, I want to make the world championship. Well, let's try for a B. Let's do a B first, you know? Right. And then we can talk about something else. That's a whole other conversation, as you keep saying, like winning a championship and winning two or winning four. Man, it's a whole level of insanity what it takes. You get on top of that podium and you see shit you've never seen before. Right. I mean, all of a sudden, you know, it's easy for us to talk like we're something, but I mean, it's back in the day, okay, it spooked me. It spooked me so bad. I didn't trust nobody, especially women, you know, a bunch of fucking groupies, you know? Right. I didn't trust nobody. Everybody wanted to be, they don't want to be my friend because of Dean Calderon. That was the hard part for me, too. You know? Like, I thought I'm surrounded by friends all the time. Yeah, you know, I would get people saying, yeah, I trained with Dean. I don't even know your name, man. You know? And then you get, you know, you get, you probably happened in your life where you get people a little bit off-centered about this shit, you know? I mean, I was punched out at the World Championship, if you remember that story. I was walking in Boston. Some fool comes and knocks my lights out because his wife, he thinks I wanted to have some. You know? His wife was whatever. That's her business, not mine. But this, and this is just one of many things that's happened to me. You know? I mean, it really, back in the day, I mean, I can remember, especially T and I, I mean, I can remember leaving and saying, we're going to train. All of a sudden, there's this caravan of cars following us. I can remember coming out of my hotel room, and there's six or seven strangers, strangers that I don't know. But, and, and, and, and, and, oh, no, no. You know, again, about winning championships, okay? You get a really, it's good to win one, but the real proof is when you win multi with different dogs. That's really the proof. Right. Really, really, really, really, really. Things start to happen, and it's probably in any endeavor in life when you're a winner. But it's very important to never remember, always remember your shit stinks in the next shit. I won the nationals with Panther and flunk protection of the world, okay? So, you know. But, again, you get up there. And things happen, and you start to see things. People start to treat you ways that are just, you know, I really feel sorry for some famous people.

I've read interviews with so many of them, and they just, they get to the place where they can't trust anybody. They just can't, because they don't know anybody who really likes them. It becomes confusing at the top, for sure. You know, back in the old days when I was a young man, and I don't care, because I didn't trust women. Because, I mean, they only, they just liked me because I was Dean the dog trainer. Do you really know who Dean is? Right. You know, it's okay for sex and everything. You're a guy. Great. Super. You know, that's easy. You know, there's dog groupies. But, man, for your emotions, you know, for what really ticks inside your heart, you know, the only reason you like me is because of what you see out there. Yeah. And imagine if something happens to you, and you cannot do more help or work. Yes. Oh. Tell me about it. Who is this guy? Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, personal story. Just like that. Pa-pum. My ex-wife, she married me because she was a groupie. But once she found out that this shit doesn't really mean that much to me, and then once we got to Ohio, I'm like, Carla, I think I just want to sit here in this house and just fuck off. All of a sudden, there's no more pizzazz, no more glory, no more this, no more that. Oh, okay. You know? Oh, okay. The human nature just comes up immediately. Yeah. You know which is a, and maybe we can end it here because we can talk forever. I can talk to you. I can talk to you fucking forever. It's like seven o'clock. Anyway, go ahead, Alvin. The one, like we were at the podium when I won with O'Malley Noir at the German Shepherd Championship. And I remember it, and I tell this to anybody. I was at the podium. I was standing on the top. And you look at me and you're like, you stay here. Don't walk out. Just stay here. It's your time. You don't remember this, but that meant so much. Because it really did, man. You know? Well, you know, I don't remember the moment, but you were the winner. You stay there. Yes. It's your place. Yes. It's your place. You're the winner. Yes. It's your time. It's your winner. You soak the shit up. Yes. I think. You don't feel shy. You don't feel anything. It's your time. Yes. I think this when we die. Okay? I think if you die and you're a good person, you're just going to relive all the good moments. And all the people you love and all your experiences will be there again and again and again for eternity. If you're a dickhead, though. But I really, I hope, you know, death is another issue. But I hope this is what's the end for us, you know, that we do just relive our beautiful experiences.

And, you know, Ivan, I think for myself and one of the greatest rewards that I have from dog sport is I've maybe caused, you know, some other people to be happy too. You know, some other people to have. I mean, my God, you know, like the feeling you described. I've had those feelings too, you know. I've had feelings and training that have equaled to the accomplishment feelings that I've had in this trials. You know what I'm saying? Sure, exactly. Just breakthroughs and training. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's, it's, it's. Actually, those are even more special moments, but those are more intimate kind of moments. Yeah, yeah. I know what you're saying. I know, I know, I know. Again, Ivan, let's, let's, let's get going. You know, again, I'm telling you, I can't wait to see you interview T. T is just, I can't tell you enough, this guy is special beyond belief. He is just, and you talk about proofing the points, okay? Talk about proofing the points, okay? I can tell you, who's the only guy to breed his own dog who win the Nationals? T flow. I mean, you want to talk about other shit? You know, the guy is unique, is unique. Look what he did with his children. Look what, I mean, come on. Yes, yes. And then from the, and from where everything was going and, and how everybody was looking down on him. It's, you know, you know, Ivan. Fuck. Ivan, you know, good for you, dude. Fuck. You know, T, T, T's a strong man, okay? T's a strong man. Look what he did. His wife is amazing. Fuck, joy. Look at those children and how they turned out. And, and I mean, the, the, the stuff that T had to go through in dog sport. Exactly. Nobody even has an idea what's up, what's that mean. Work. I'm not going to. One last thing. T and I once were selected. T was going to do the front half and I was going to do the back half at the Nationals. We beat out the F Health Trials. We beat out all the local favorites. Okay. The shit that went on after that, the fucking shit that went on after that. And I'm telling you, it wasn't because it was Dean Cowderon and T Floyd human beings. Right. It had to do with the color of our skin. Yes. And, and, and if Peter Jacob was here, he could tell you some of the shit. He's too old now, but he could tell you some of the shit that went on and T could tell you the same. Okay. All I got is that's not relevant. What's relevant is T's absolute character, his proof in the points, his radiance, his, his, his wanting to help. And I think your idea, me, T and you. Oh, you guys are super special to me. Would be awesome. Oh, this is happening. This is absolutely happening. And we're doing it not like this.

We're doing it in person. Yeah, it would be awesome. It would be awesome. Okay, Ivan. Well, listen, thank you so much, sir. I want to say again, you are such an ambassador for our sport. I mean, bless you and bless all that you do for us. Thank you, my friend. I hope everybody is got a little excited about training dogs and what it is about because of that conversation. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.