에피소드 48: Mia Skogster

Other chance to qualify for FMBB. Yes. So, you know, we'll see what happens. But that's what we've been doing, like, in the last, you know, 10 days, 2 weeks. It starts to kind of, you know, break competition. It starts to get in your head. Get up all of a sudden. It's like, hey, should we go tracking or should we go to do videos? Yes, yes. Do you have a... Who is the judge in your Nationals? The judges. So, we have... Oh, man, you're going to kill me now. I think you know him. It's just kind of very cool guy. He's done a bunch of... Oof. Now you really got me. Not like I'm thinking. Somehow, Paavo Rapila comes in my head. And it's so not because it's Finnish. I only know the Estonian Dutch. Ivo. Estonian. Estonian. Yes, I think it's the... Give me the name. Ivo Obligas. Yes. Ivo Obligas. Ivo Obligas. Yes. Yes. Because I was really thinking that I don't know any Lithuanian, but then Ivo came to my mind about tracking. Okay, so you have... I mean, I'm horrible. Like, to me, Estonia, Lithuania, and Lithuania are, like, very confusing. And I know they even speak so different languages that they don't even understand each other, probably. But for me, it's kind of, you know. But so, yeah, he does tracking. And then Mark Oliver and... What is her name? Natasha. She's from Slovenia. Ah, you have Oliver Nadke there as a judge. Yeah. Yeah. So they're going to do... Ivo. I know. They're going to do... I don't know how they're going to do it. I think both Natasha and Mark Oliver will both judge on the stadium together, I think. I don't know. I don't know. But these are the judges. She's from Slovenia. I can't think of her name. She breeds also. A German depredo? No, a Malinois. Is she a German... No, no. Yeah, she breeds Malis in there, but I can't think of... How do I find the names? Slovenia. This is so bad. Like, I'm so bad. But they just like both together, OPDDS and protection. I think this is the plan. Do you have a long distance to the championships? Yeah, we're going to have to drive. Yeah. I mean, it's a... We have to. It's a good drive. But I was saying, like, we... I mean, getting ready for the competition right now, that's the big thing. And Natalia is a little more prepared than me. I'm going to hopefully do okay. But it's the qualification. So we have no choice. We have to do it. And they made it kind of weird this year. Like, I don't know how you guys do in Finland. For us, it's always a little bit... It always seems to me, for all the years that I've been competing, or at least the last 10, that somehow the Malinois Championship or the Old Bridge Championship always in some conflict with some other World Championship or something.

So, like, right now, you have the FCI starting basically this weekend. And in the following week is the Malinois Nationals. So even anybody that was on the team at the FCI and tried to make another competition, has only one week off. And it's just very difficult, considering that you have to fly and come back. And it's just not possible. We have the same. We have the same. We have always finished Malinois Nationals second weekend of October. And that basically means that people who have been competing in FCI and that they are usually traveling by car. So you have the long flights, but we have the long distance driving. So people are, like, taking the ferries to Sweden or Estonia or somewhere. And then they are driving there. So some people actually fly there. But I personally prefer always go by car when possible because I have so much stuff. How it is with you when you go, for example, Nationals, if you consider that it would be like, let's say you have to drive like one day, like 24 hours or something, or do you prefer fly and rent the car? Which one you then prefer? Yeah, yeah. If you can go by driving. We got really, really screwed up right now with flying. Like, it was becoming very difficult before COVID, but now after COVID, there is only two airlines that fly dogs out of all the airlines that we have. Only two. And they have some crazy requirements that it's very difficult to meet. So, I mean, we're kind of joking that if for some reason there is a competition in California and we need to go to California, probably the best way to do it, if we're going to fly, is to go to Frankfurt and then California. That's how crazy it is. Yeah, yeah. Like, flying is becoming very, very tricky. And every time they make some restrictions like this, we think, okay, that's just for the moment. But they seem to like it. I don't think that our airlines, at least I think they're done dealing with dogs and lawsuits and stuff like that. So, they're just done. And so, yeah, we're going to drive. We have to drive. Yeah. I kind of remember this because when I was last time in USA and I was going to Brazil and I thought that maybe I would take my dog to Brazil maybe you remember. And then I would check the prices and the prices were like they would charge, I think American Airlines would have charged me per kilo price and some kind of like cargo kilos, like whatever weight. It was super expensive. It would be like something like, I think it would have been something like $10,000 what I would need to pay or something like this just for the dog ticket. So, it would be like more expensive than me myself flying in the business class

or first class or something. Right. So, it was terribly expensive. And then I decided that, okay, it makes, of course, no sense. But, yeah. But also, personally, I prefer actually in Europe, even if we would have championships in Greece where everybody would just basically fly, I would drive there. I would drive there if possible because, you know, I have my car, my huge amount of stuff and I have like, I don't have to think about what I'm taking with me because I have always too much and I never, you know, so much stuff with the dogs or the food, everything. So, I think it would be easier for me just to drive. Plus, the dog can be in his big cage where he's used to be and so on. Right, right, right. Maybe in Greece, maybe if it's an island, I would consider to fly there though and then rent like a fan. But, generally, I think I would always drive if it's just possible. Even it takes me two days to drive. Man, it's crazy now that you, we talk about FMBB, the Portuguese club just kind of decided not to. They canceled. Like... But this was talked about so long time that they will cancel and then nobody admitted it and then it really happened. Yeah, they were just hoping that maybe something is going to come true. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe the Greek club, you know, now that they did it one time, maybe they have a good run this time. You know, sometimes when you, when you have one time and you kind of see how it is and you get better, you know. Better. Yeah, it's... It's kind of like how Slovenians, you know, I mean, they've done so many now that's kind of okay. Like a routine. Yeah. Croatia is the first time, right? I don't think Croatia has done anyone, any championships. No, I think it's the first time. Yes. It's going to be a good one. I mean, it will be interesting, I think. I don't know. I don't know. Do you know who the judges are on this one? I haven't even looked at that. Was it also Mark Oliver Radke? Are you really? I'm not sure. It can be, it wasn't, you know, I, I haven't checked because I, I wasn't going to go there. I decided to skip that. Right. As I also qualified there, but I was like, I will not go, not because of the Croatia, it's because of, of me and my dog. Right. But that, that was the reason. Do you still, is it still with you? How, how are things going? Yeah, because I'm not, I'm not waiting for the Finnish, um, um, army, the special forces, like they, they have, um, they have, um, the paperwork will take a long time there. You know, it goes like further and then it goes to the next table there. And they told me it may take a few months before they eventually can. that's just how they work. How the process is done. But that's cool. I remember a long time ago with Helge, um,

the helper I trained that time, uh, Jan, he, um, had an accident, like he had some injury in his, uh, left shoulder. How surprising that a lot of helpers do that. So we trained Helge always with the right arm sleeve, like, like, you know, just because of that. Right. And then before competitions, you know, we have to also do some helper work with the left arm. For sure. So. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, I mean, I mean, just like people that haven't done it at all. Like once you try to even put the dog down for the escape and you're like, down in the escape. This looks really weird. And typically the dog starts to walk at the judge and not the decoy because the judge is in the wrong side. It's very funny. Yeah. And also side transport, I think side transport is also hard. Right. No, no, you definitely have to show the dog. Yeah. I mean, they definitely have to see it. But the good thing at least is that I think they have two guys to the right arm. So. Yeah. You know, cause it's, I've been, I can't remember. That was a long time ago, but it really kind of messed up the whole championship that year because the guy that was doing the right arm, I don't know if he got tired or injured or whatever, but they had to replace him. So they replaced him with the left. Yeah. And that just kind of changed the whole, you know, it's just something to think about. It doesn't feel like it's completely equal. Right. Right. Right. And especially for, for us crazy dog people, we are right away, Oh no, this is so bad. You got the one who has that. And that's why it worked like that. Yes. The new rules are out. I haven't looked at them yet, but I looked at the, I mean, I looked at the proposal. So I'm assuming that basically they just got accepted. They just kind of came a few days ago. Have you checked them out? No, no, no, I haven't. No. We just trained. Tell me something. No, I, I didn't check them out either. I've been, I've been just busy training. You have been busy with other things, like training dogs, for example, without knowing the new rules. Crazy. Right. I mean, that's funny. No, but I did look at the, I did look at the, the proposals when they came out. Right. And I think we talked about it. So, so I'm, I'm, yeah. I mean, there is no much noise on the internet, so I'm assuming that nothing else has changed there. You know, maybe the others are like we, they just haven't, they're like us. They just haven't been to rent them. Right. That's why there is no noise. They are also busy with training until one person reads them and it's like, by the way, there is this, and that's going to be, yes, like a game changer. But that's the bad thing about us competitors. You know, we like,

we have to read the rules. There's no time for, yes, we have to read the rules, but we don't really have time for that. We don't have time to politics. We don't have time to actually anything else, just training our dogs. And perhaps eating and sleeping when it's time. So the new one seems to be doing really good. You like him and everything. Like you're moving with your new dog. Things are looking very nice. I love him so much. He's now 13 months old. You know, I have this feeling that finally I have a dog I can train. I can move forward without, without stuck in some unimportant little things, which keeps me circulating. Yeah. I'm super happy. How is it, you know, like I just kind of jumping back to something because I thought of it. When, when we were talking about driving or flying or whatever, like if you are in Finland, like October, is it already the, the dark part starts kind of the longer dark? Yeah. So how does, like if you go to, let's say somewhere in Europe for the down, do the dogs get affected by that? How, how does the dog really deal with this six months, six months? You know, we, we don't, um, it would be easier, uh, after the summer, but we don't, we don't go in October anywhere. It's kind of like, we are depressed. Yeah. Cause there is nothing happening. You're right. The death is coming. Exactly. Death is coming and nothing happening. But, but the bad thing is always in springtime, because we have, uh, in April, we have still snow. and, and if we are lucky, the snow melts away just like a week before the FNB World Championships. But very often people have been leaving our country when it's still like, you know, minus degrees at night and then something like zero degree in the morning or, or it can be super cold still kind of. And, and then, um, then when we go somewhere like Greece, uh, it, you know, the dogs usually feel that much more heavy, heavier, heavily. And then, um, when they get used to it, like during the summer, uh, then it's easier for them to tolerate the warm weather. In my opinion, I think that that's, that's very experienced. Of course, we have also individually very different dogs that some dogs don't react so much. If they have, if they have high energy and they have, they are very high driven dogs, they don't feel it that much. But of course, calmer dogs and lower driven dogs usually react harder. And so like in the summertime when they were, like, I know when you go to bed, you put the curtains heavy, so you kind of make a dart. But what about the dogs? Do they need that? Or they're fine with daylight to sleep or? Oh, they are fine. Somehow dogs can sleep. Like, even it's like, like bright throughout the, you know,

that's crazy. I've never talked with anybody about this. And it's like always been in my mind. Like, you know, I think that the kind of light and darkness and all these things, they affect only on humans. Dogs are more somehow tolerant for that kind of things. I think they are more heavily reacting for, like, temperature. Yeah. Whether it's warm or cold. Yeah, for sure. How is your experience? Like, if you come to Europe, do you have like, Yeah, that effect, I totally believe that that affects them. I don't know if it affects them in the same way as us. Like, I've, I've been to Europe only three days before competition and we did really well. Um, but typically, you know, at least a week ahead of time, at least a week ahead of time you go. I, I would say, I would say almost everybody goes 10 days. Minimum ahead of time, which is, which is a long time. It's interesting. Um, have you felt it ever like this, that if you are like long time living in a hotel and, or in, in a worst case in different hotels, because first you go somewhere like two weeks before, then you stay in one hotel somewhere, you train in some environment, then you travel to the competition place. It's another hotel. It's another car perhaps, or, or, or, or so on at least another environment that your dogs would be actually more tired in the, in the really best competition days than if he, if you would just come there a little bit earlier. Yeah. Like, how do you feel like what, what is in your opinion or have you seen differences in different dogs that some dogs cope with better in that way and some dogs on the other way? Can it be like individual thing or, or do you feel that it's more universal thing? Yeah, no, I, man, this is so interesting to talk about because, if you do it smart, which is never happens, right? But if you were to do it smart, probably going a little early, it's, it's a good thing, but you can not, no matter how you organize yourself, here is how it goes. You fly, hopefully the plane, everything goes right, everything, you get your luggage, all it's good. You go to your hotel or Airbnb, whatever that is, and then, the madness begins. Now, you have to drive around to find tracking fields because you have no idea where you are. So, you're like on Google Maps, oh, this looks really green here, let me try. Well, no, too bad for you. then you're looking for some place where you can do some obedience. and what really ends up happening, no matter how well you're organized, even if you, if you have friends in the country and they secure some place for you, most of the day becomes just driving experience. and,

and very often you just drive from A to B just to find out that nothing's possible to happen there. And then you have to drive two hours in the other direction too. So, so, so, so it really, really, really sucks when you, you think, okay, I'm going ahead of time and everything. And, and ultimately what happens is, is just a lot, a lot of driving. And you kind of learn, depending how many times you've been in competitions, but you kind of learn not to get frustrated, disappointed, because you drop two hours and the tracking field that you were hoping that's going to be good, it's already, I don't know, the farmer just puts cow shit or whatever. Like it just nothing. Yeah. It's not for you. You're out of luck again, you know, and, and that's, that's the tough part to where the benefit of going two, three days right before, like you, you know where you go, you're at home, you're in a routine, you know, and basically if you have the courage, which is very tricky, to go to Europe and do one or two sessions and basically go into the, the general practice and, and, you know, and I guess it depends. I mean, I will hear what you think, but I think it also depends on, on, on where your dog is. like if, if the dog is already, let's say five, six years old and it knows exactly what we are doing and how it's going to go and you have nothing to fix. Yeah. I mean, we're talking ideal situation. Who doesn't have anything to fix to three days before the trial, right? Right. You know, gurus, they don't have that. but, you see, of course, I'm the kind of risk taker. So, I like to go there, like, I like to go to the competition place, usually two days before the official training. Mm-hmm. No, I can see the good things. Two or three days. But it's also because that's typical in Europe because it's different. We don't have the time difference and so on. So, usually I start driving, like, like, maybe on Friday or Thursday from home and I arrive Saturday or Sunday to the competition place wherever the competition is, somewhere in Central Europe, usually, or Southern Europe or Western or Eastern or Northern. And then, and then, yeah, then I have, like, a few days time. Usually it's, like, Sunday and Monday is the time. So, there is two days time to actually even try to search some kind of tracking field or something and I have tried to organize it beforehand or asking at least some help if possible to do it once or twice. So, yeah, that's the usual situation but it could change because when I have been last time competing in the Europe, we used to have FMBB in May and that was much better because that means that we were able to track in Finland at least two or three weeks. I mean, two or three weeks

is a brilliant amount of time, you see, after winter break and then, then nowadays when the competition is in April, that means that we, I would be, like, forced to drive there earlier, that I can do at least a few, like, like one week tracking before or two weeks or something like that that would force me to do that. But my experience generally about traveling is, and I have been always wondering about the TV USA and Canadians and Brazilians and all those people who have to come from far away distance that how much more harder it is for the dogs because you are forced to take a rental car and flying and that is stress for your dog no matter how good dog you have, he has to change so much more in environment and also the weather can change and so on. But then I've been thinking this that at least with my experience young dogs when we have like really young dogs like one year old dogs or two years two year old dogs when I'm traveling first time with them to Europe like just by car ferries different hotels and I'm going to Czech or Germany or somewhere Austria or whatever my dogs get usually quite tired especially the longer the trip goes so if it after two weeks for example I can feel that my dogs are not they are not so highly aroused when I take them out of the car or so on so they are clearly a little more tired when they are good dogs of course they still want to work but you can see like the peak like that they are a little more tired than they are at home for example and then the older they come they seem to not to stress about and getting tired so easily so when they come like three years old or four years old or if we compare it for five six years old dogs that they seem to like cope better the traveling and the stress and then there also seem to be some dogs that can cope better this kind of stressy environment like a changing environment than other dogs that some dogs just don't react so much and then I know a lot of Finnish dog trainers for example who have told me that when they are traveling their dogs just come more lazy because they are like getting just tired after three four days and eventually when the competition day is their dogs are not that motivated for example yeah yeah kind of flat yeah yeah no no I can't yeah I know yeah that definitely can happen but that's also the strategies of the trainer of it's so hard to have this strategy to make it right because the strategies always change right it's not like okay I got it down it worked for this trial so I'm going to do the same thing for the next trial it's just not going to go the same way and you got to be smart or you have another problem fixed or something with our traveling you know what is one of the kind of at least again depends on the personality of the person but like travel can get you very frustrated I mean your back gets lost or the connection

gets delayed or they don't have the right rent a car or you realize that the Airbnb is like in a really bad area of town and have nowhere to walk the dogs no place to walk with your dogs or street dogs or whatever happened and all these little things they get you frustrated and now the dog is like what is he or she upset so much about and now you know it kind of rolls into the dog and the dog starts to be concerned too that okay something is really wrong here I don't know what but something is wrong I have noticed I have noticed that it helps at least I have always liked to walk when I go with my dogs so if I'm competing so I do everything to my dog that my dogs would feel comfortable and relax because eventually it is the most important thing is the dog in that trip so it's not that I get the best wine or if my luggage is lost or something so I'm like I'm very picky with this that my dogs don't hear me even talking with a nasty way or negative way to my friends so I want to leave my dogs to the hotel or Airbnb somewhere and then I want to talk these kind of things like somewhere where my dogs are not listening to me that's super cool and then another thing is that I think exactly what you mentioned about this when your whole time goes for this stupid driving around and that is stressing because your dogs first of all they are in the car they can hear you what you say and talk to someone and so on and anyway this kind of like sitting even to a dog sitting in the car box so many hours per day can be also stressful so at home my dogs are sleeping in the house and I just drive into the training field and back short distances and then I go often walking with them so they can sniff and just run freely in the forest and what is really stressful for many dogs is that when you travel you have no possibility to keep them free because maybe it's like in the city or maybe it's some place where are a lot of other people a lot of other dogs so the first thing what I'm searching for is the place where I can drive and set my dog free even some kind of road next to fields or forest or something and I noticed it's also something that clearly makes my dog more hungry if I think about tracking so they can walk more they can sniff they can get the stress out of themselves just by chorting and walking and so that is something important what I try to do systematically when I'm traveling with my dogs and if I compare like if I'm just traveling with my dogs to train you know like if I go just to train them in Central Europe I think I don't so much walk with them I can be more like relaxed you know I go training with them and of I can just you know bring them to hotel and I want to go to restaurant and eat and something so I think I'm a little bit more relaxed there but it's maybe not so good for the dogs so kind of in the competition trips I give more attention for the dog the dog is like the king and the most important thing there That's crazy how I mean I think the same way but I try I do it a little bit different I try to make sure that I do whatever needs to be done for me to be in the

right mind because if I'm not in the right mind then for sure everything just goes bad so so that's also a good tactic yeah so I I know that if I if I cannot make my mind like if I'm upset and I cannot get rid of it and whatever yeah I know it's just gonna go right to the dog and you'll be like oh shit so I try to pay attention more on me because if I feel good you know they know I mean you can fake it as much as you want but they pay know I think they know most of the time if we are making a very good effort and when we are really really enjoying you know I think I become like the real actor back just before the competitions and when the competition is over I'm not only tired because all that stress and everything but I'm tired because I have been acting so much I have been acting in front of my just like I'm suddenly the super cool person that is like I tried and I was thinking for example before Finnish championships with Mahis I think the last one week I was in a super merry mood just in front of my dog not like maybe everywhere else but just in front of my dog and all the training I think Mahis must have been really thinking oh it's like super fun right now with her so he kind of like cheered up I think he was better but often my dogs are a little better in the competitions and I have been thinking whether it is because I become a nicer person right I tell you with me like I I mean I share with obviously with the whole world that's listening but I also I want my dog to to know that the moment you know we have a very good feeling but somewhere somewhere and it's not even on purpose it actually happens in during training for a good reason but you know not too close not like the day before the trial or two but let's say three or four days before the trial I'm like don't do that no we don't do that to where they you know like it's okay this is real business okay okay we're back to doing it and so I have and again I don't think it happens on purpose I think it just happens in the training and my pressure for the competition but there is this moment that it's like few days before the trial that I'm like dude this is like don't do that not now it is not good and then we go nice but I think this moment that you know we have that kind of conversation for my dog is important you know yeah like okay it's just not the right time right now I think I have exactly what you have but I just have that earlier for me it happens always two or three weeks before the competition before I actually start traveling and it happens and it's like this is not accepted right it's a little similar yes and then it's like this is like that a question but we don't talk about this question again for me

this kind of training situations where I would say that where I'm a little more when it goes more my nerves something like that is exactly two or three weeks before but then the funny part is just like when we are traveling then usually I have had my moments like in the past where this kind of situation also has happened like before the official training right or something usually it's like then but also earlier or later just more closer to the competition but nowadays I think I have become a little better with this but I'm completely intolerable for people around me maybe like just before the official training and it seems that every single person goes to my nerves because everybody sees you and they want to talk to you and it's like how is everything and good luck and it's like no I talk like a lot like all kind of bullshit but I think and I grow people's nerves really but official training is something it never stops wondering me how it comes that people don't know what they are doing in the official training and I need to know what I'm like I know exactly what I'm doing like every single dog I know it when they were born what I'm going to do with them to competition you know do official training kind of and then when I'm asking the other people who are in this team you know because usually it's like you know five people or six people in this group and it seems to be even worse in the nationals because in the nationals you have more unexperienced people in your group and somehow they really trigger the worst out of me like I'm like hey guys could we talk like a couple of days before the official training like what everybody is doing and I can three and also five and six so I can place myself to the field to the right spots and I can perhaps do a little bit healing or something there and then they are like we don't know yet oh I do a little bit healing and then I do that and then in the worst case what happened is that they don't do that they start doing something different on the field and for me it's like everything collapses those are the moments where a really good team captain experienced team captain can kind of make this you know like this is probably the most important time for the team captain to make this for everybody is it always similar what you prepare when like but in the nationals we don't have the team captain you know like we usually have like a like a local team or the club that is going there and then it's there is no captain so it's more messy even there I think in the world champs it's easier do you always do the same kind of practice yeah I know and I kind of like the only thing I'm wearing basically is whether I do the jumps or not it depends how old dog I have you know like if you have an elder dog perhaps you don't have to do that or if the jumps are set up something funny then you have to ride yeah yeah or just like you know just can't be that I just ask my dog one time jump and give the ball but exactly

the a little bit between so I start heal my dog towards there like in a trial and reward my dog from that so just the beginning is like the same but then I change it completely and I so he can see it from a shorter distance and then we run together in the beginning of field and I sent him there that's like how I always do I don't want to have anybody there showing the toy or something because this could go wrong I mean anything can go wrong but that's just how I'm used to do this and I want to spend my most important part is in obedience I spend more time in obedience than in protection it's just a blind search right of course this can vary I can have one reward in some of those blinds can be that I have one reward for example in the fourth blind or something and then there is of course help in the sixth but what seems to be a little problematical is that we seem to have every ! I got like this is a bit embarrassing to say but I got uncomfortable I lost my nerves a little bit or I was a bit maybe nasty to some competitors because they were like why do I need to do so much in obedience like why I need to do recall send away and jumps and I'm like I'm not going to spend more time here right because I'm going to do my jump just like one jump and give it a ball like meanwhile somebody is doing healing or send away or something and then my recall and send away they happen very quickly and then in my blind search that doesn't take much time because my dog will basically find the toy in the fourth blind and then I'm going to immediately place him down call him send him fifth and sixth and he gets reward after five bucks so it's going to be like really much in the time schedule and then the person who said this to me she was rewarding her dog in each point I think she had help her in each blind even her obedience was shorter and that takes time and then I was like you know like I'm not going to spend ! team leader or somebody who would have like you said that team leader can say like like make it really nice like you know a bit like yeah like a team leader job right right right no I know exactly what you are saying and going back to the traveling around and driving around like not not all the time but very often when the team decides to do things together so let's all of us train together let's all of us meet somewhere and then we meet together and then it becomes a chaos because everybody is a little tense everybody is trying to be nice everybody is trying to do the right things but it's just

normal pressure from competition and you're trying to do your best and then a lot of times me just watching some training that's not going well that the dog maybe is not ready or whatever and I'm starting to doubt my own training just because I'm around it you know and but then you you know I often try to just kind of stay away if possible so I don't start to question well is my dog also going to go around the jump because these two dogs are doing that and you know like it just kind of can mess with your head watching those that are not ready for competition and so it's an interesting one and that adds to you know on one hand you want to be a team member you want to kind of but ultimately we you know we have to accept the reality that at least what I think our sport is individual sport it's not like let's play volleyball and it's five of us it's really yes we are a team yes we have to help each other we have to do whatever we can do but to a point where I'm not sacrificing my own training right what do you think about that it's interesting because I have been in teams like in the past where we did like basically almost every training together and I felt that when we traveled together we had a very good team spirit many times and then we also felt more connected and so on of course we always have some people who said tomorrow I come also to the field because somebody and you know like in the ideal world we can decide ourselves that okay tomorrow in the morning I go to tracking and in the evening I go to do obedience or protection but in the real world it happens that somebody gets you the training field in the morning and that means then you go in the morning to do the training obedience and protection and you do the tracking whenever it's possible again compared to those times that somebody gives you and then I realized that people in the old times when we competed nobody of our team they understood this so they kind of like adapted with that and I think it's nice to have people who adapt with that in a kind of way that we understand that we are there and we are thankful if somebody is organizing us a field and helps us to get to tracking right so we go exactly and we plan our training according to that but what makes it very stressful if you have like unexperienced team members and some who are like extremely how to say they don't really understand that it cannot be like at home and they are like no no no I want to go tomorrow morning like tracking I don't want to train or something and then they make a fuss about it and you are like well this is not possible so you have to either accept it or you don't train at all right right right and then and I think that is something also that it depends a little bit on the team members and how how flexible they are to change their own mind fitting to the possibilities what we have there and then once we have the world championships in Finland and then our team didn't train at all together because everybody were at home and we just kind of drove you know it was like that and I think that was the time when we had the worst team spirit ever so it was maybe also because everybody

felt that they were at home or it felt a bit like in ! when we have been traveling all together because it starts often that in the old times we had the ferry together so we were sitting in the ferry eating together and sharing all the uncomfortable situations and comfortable situations and so maybe it's also the people sometimes people also click better so I think it's very much also about the people kind of thing yeah I think so too but like you said I think it's also that that also matters how we experience maybe I mean like we can have some beginners who are actually doing great like really great but maybe it's more typical when you have like like you said dogs who are not ready and if you watch their obedience and their protection and then you watch when they are so stressed about it and you can't really help either I mean because there is like the fact is that in the competition week you can't change almost anything you can just keep up the work you have been doing yeah you cannot do major changes very very true like that's kind of where I I sometimes I would watch and I'm like I know what I would do but it's so out of my place right now two days before your competition to even interfere in any way of what you are doing it's just but there is sometimes like I've had crazy experience with teams like we've had some amazing ones just as you said like I would do that every day like I would do this with the same people even without competition I would go to Italy or whatever and just redo the week again with these people because it was cool right but I've had also the experience to where one person is like I don't like this food I don't want to go to this restaurant it's like we're too bad it's like 10 of us and we have to get something to it so we can go to do what we need to actually do so yeah put up with it you know you know yourself then bring some snacks like deal with it somehow but you cannot one person cannot make everybody oh let's go 20 more kilometers to find a different restaurant it's like no yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly this you know there can be some little things but it can make a big difference for the team spirit and everything here is a good one for you do you get more nervous now comparing to when you first in your earlier world championships like how are you handling how is changing I mean I get nervous every single time every single competition is important but I would say that I have better tools to control you kind of know yourself better yeah I know myself better I can prevent things happening easier I can try somehow at least avoid some mistakes and when I think about the first world championships I was so nervous so nervous I couldn't eat in like in France where we have been together I really couldn't eat anything in the whole week I got maybe one

bread down per day like some little piece of baguette or some I don't know what I just didn't feel like eating so I didn't even feel hungry I was so nervous and then in the last day when the competition was over then I was like now I'm hungry again and so I'm fortunate this you know I mean I shouldn't say this because it's again in my country to do some body shaving so you know with women kind of like my age of women have been so used to this like the good thing is that I didn't feel like hungry right so unfortunately now I do feel hungry in the competition so I can keep on eating okay but the good thing about the first times was that nobody knew who you are right and that was a good thing that doesn't that put more pressure like for me it's always like okay well let's see what's gonna happen now I miss the times when it was my turn to go on the field and everybody goes to buy sandwiches and buy dog food from first moment I was so sad that people just walked away when I came in France to show my dog and I felt it like they really miss so much right and I was like they don't do it second time I like half of the crowd is for you I like to be a little bit cocky but on the other way I'm really really good at myself by putting myself pressure because of course I feel like what if I really completely ruin it like we don't do like we don't match the expectation my dog does something like you know just about the points I don't really think that oh I don't want to think that we would do it so badly that people would be so disappointed what they see but we can still have like some exercise that just goes wrong and then like 10 points away you know it could happen something like this maybe that it's gonna be ending up well I don't know something like this so it would be like and I think another thing is that I have become more stressed about this that what I want to show there so I wouldn't go there with a dog that but I think I have always been like that though that I don't want to go there if the ! is just take a chance yeah yeah yeah that's kind of where I am right now but I have no choice I have to do this competition like I wish I just did it you know right I was just the same you know with Mahis in the last Finnish championships I think what you are doing right now right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but I mean I have to do ! smart ! pressure him for something that he is not I mean I don't know maybe it's just in my head whenever we train Natalia always is like no everything is looking good just like this what is the discipline you are most worried about obedience tracking or protection ! All all equally all of them yeah I think so I would say protection is probably the safest again I mean there are not by no means nothing is

I wouldn't I wouldn't go to competition if I didn't think I don't have a chance right I just that it's a little bit too soon like just two months like I could have trained a little bit more you know not so intense so kind of like I feel like I am trying to chase it to catch up something and maybe it's in my head maybe maybe it's not really maybe he's ready I don't see I don't have a problem I cannot say well he's not downing on a send away or he's skipping a corner on you know like there is nothing like a big thing it's just some yeah I don't know like putting all things together and making everything like operating as excellently as possible maybe maybe it's my competition maybe it's just how I think about it I know like with with eyes with my dog before Tarzan when he he tore the ACL two weeks before the FMBB and he was done like that was a competition that I was like so looking forward because just for the six years that we've been trying to put it together yeah I had it together you know like I of course it's a competition of course he could any dog could fail no doubt not whatever you know like I mean it's dogs but I never felt this prepared and confident so that that was very painful when we just had to call it off but who knows I mean it's the cool thing about competition right I mean all this kind of mind games and trying to see what is the best I think the good thing with your case is that if you qualify to the championships for the Worlds in your nationals you will then have half year time to finalize everything and before we talk about this French competition in France in Le Touquet a long long time ago with Helge and I remember when I was slamming into me in the in the in the front yeah and then in the A frame I threw the dumbbell crooked so he I think he did something like this that he climbed over and then he came directly back without climbing back so either way but he missed the five points for the hurdle so he got I think 83 points or something like this and then there little mistakes here and there like little things and then in protection he did I think 90 points or something I had to give him two here force commands like like an extra command that he was coming to me and in the back transport he was forging so much

that only his tail was touching anymore my leg when the helper attacked so there were like a lot of control mistakes and then when we went to the world championships there he was still slamming into me but there he climbed the A frame both directions and his tracking was very brilliant he got 98 and then he got 92 in obedience because he needed two commands for the down in center way and then in the protection he made 97 so there he was perfectly under control so we were able to fix like yeah he did a very nice protection there so I'm just thinking that you are able to fix so much in a half year like when he is not ready for the nationals and I was the last one who was qualifying to the team with a place number six and I got exactly 270 points you it was like 90 88 92 something like 92 88 90 so if I would have got 269 points they wouldn't have taken me to the team because that time 270 was the minimum so I was like super lucky may this bring you luck to your nationals as well thank you you know there was a very cool one I just watched I mean a month ago or something in one of the social media I don't know where but it was like this like a glass and a bottle and he was saying okay that's enough that's enough but it keeps coming it's like okay thank you thank you and then they zoom out and it's him for himself but he he saying okay that's good that's good enough okay thank you thank you and then it's like oh it's just me yes um what about training like when you when you think about I don't know 2007 2024 what has changed in your training and what actually like what has changed I'm very curious but what I'm more interested for whatever reason is what is still not changed the same yeah I think what has not changed is basically how I prepare how I put everything together how I um use my emotions of course I'm a little more aware of things like but I'm still doing it exactly the same way healing is very very same there are little things like how I teach my dogs to do for example um about like little details or little details how I get there like like how I like teaching a trick for a dog make it a little easier more clear make a little bit easier yes and more clear for the dog and less conflict and so on so this I can train a bit more clever way for different types of dogs for sure but the general idea how I when I raise the arousal level how I do that how I get my dogs focusing and precise and motivated and keep that

I clever nowadays like it's split to more small pieces for the dog and this is something I think better how we can manipulate the dog thinking that it was the dog's idea and he wants to do it well and he understands it more clever in the old times it has been more so that you need to do this in order to get that but the part has been a little bit more complicated and more difficult for the dog to understand so it's been harder I know what you mean back some years ago it was more of like still kind of the dog still was thinking that there was some clash as to where right now we have so many cool ways to say it's good to work with me ! Yeah yeah and also without the helper first like right teaching some teaching a lot of like pre skills for the dog and then the dog knows this better and then we can start from some simple thing first but still nowadays sometimes depending on the dog I'm very efficient person I know that time is limited so if I can choose whether I choose the way that is effective but also good ethically good way that the dog understands what we want from him and so on I'm choosing the way that is effective as well I don't spend my time for showing the dog every single thing when it's not needed sometimes when we have extreme hard extremely soft extremely impulsive or extremely dominant or something like that then we need to think that in this particular exercise this might become a problem so we really have to think how can we teach this in the best possible way but generally sometimes it's a waste of time to you know like sometimes people ask me like how long do you how many repetitions your dog has to do like jumping perfect 60 centimeter hurdle before you put it 70 and I'm like one time no one time and then next training I'm trying if I have a high driven dog who trusts his body who has good drive I'm like okay I just started with a good example is with I started four weeks ago and we started from 40 centimeter high hurdle now we jump one meter so I started like oh 40 oh it was fine now 60 yeah it goes fine 70 why one jump 70 is enough let's go 80 immediately and then I was like you know a couple of more weeks and then we were one meter and and and then and if the dog does a mistake like he tries to go around it it happens I'm like let's go again and then I help the dog and boom he goes and I'm not like oh that was too much I still have to stay with 80 centimeters the next two months you know I go more directly to the point because why would I waste time for this and yeah you can either help the dog and if you realize okay the helping was even that not enough then you can go back to the lower hurdle example but so that it's a yeah but just like an example

that nowadays I think when I'm watching the kind of I don't know generally people training people have become sometimes even a little bit too careful Yeah yeah super extremely methodical right and very methodical and very like like it's like no no give it a try push it a little right give it a try yeah exactly I mean and so many times nobody can say how many repetitions you have to do or so on you just have to take a risk try and learn from that and whether it was good or bad decision then you help Yeah I am thinking well you gotta do it 10,000 times or whatever it's like no you don't have to it's about understanding and clarity right right you gotta kinda really go with the flow exactly right it's like if you start counting how many times you've done it and how many times are left you you're missing the point of teaching and learning reading the dog and reading the situation and I think that also makes me a lot of fun I'm like now I got this idea that maybe I can try to this and let's take let's give it a try and then and it can happen I didn't even plan to do that but it just happened This idea came while I was try to move forward and then I tried and then it works out I'm like that was the best training did you see that yes and if it doesn't work it's not the end of the world it really it's not the end of the world yeah so tell me now with then with the three phases in which one you've changed the most today you would think I think I have changed the most in protection just because the way how I it's so many like things like how I introduce the blinds how I introduce the side transport the back transport the call out from blind healing in the protection so there I have changed the most I haven't changed anything about the dog's emotional state or what I want my dog to show in protection or something it's just like how I add the control part there and if I compare for obedience in yes and in obedience I think healing is almost like nothing has changed sent away nothing has changed blown down nothing has changed really then sit and down and stand I have tried all kind of things throughout these years in the dog's spot and I kind of circulate them and then I kind of come back always for the same I'm like whatever I kind of and then I find like okay with this dog that works and that this works and yeah and and so little changes for sure little changes for sure but not well the little changes even even the rules and the competition they kind of they demand that we make these little ones but still I would say that like when I'm comparing like how did I teach like where I focused like in the sit exercise like you know I'm a really bad sit ! trainer like I know just shining in that one right so my dogs are not famous for the most flashy

fast quickest sit of the world at all so and they have never been but my dogs when they sit then they are focused and they are watching at me and they are self confident right yeah like when I walk away and so I was focusing on that then and I'm still so now I think my young one seems to be like a relaxed sitter like at least so far and I'm like but that is not because I have changed something better not at all it's just because he's a natural just him yeah yeah yeah it's just him so yeah he's like you know easiest one of them like I have had like one I think the last one was extremely worst one and then then I have something like reasonably bad ones before and some normal ones maybe in the past and yeah all that but yeah so I'm still focusing I have always been focusing on the focused phase I think a lot of trainers maybe didn't focus that so much like in 2007 like they nowadays do but I always focused on that though then retrieves nothing changed in the jumps in the A-frame and how I teach the holding part nothing there only thing I'm better nowadays to train my dogs with this two toy game from Peter and so I have learned this from them so this is the only thing and of course made it a bit like my version but that's the only thing that's the most biggest thing I have changed in my obedience was the retrieve how I built the speed how I used the speed in the retrieves and I think it's also the understanding like I think at least for me like I start to at some point I started to be like okay this is not a joke this is like an important piece I cannot just take it for granted like I need to pay attention to it you know being the speed on the retrieve being you know focus on the after a position and it's a like I haven't changed much well okay it's a lie I mean like we change we cannot not change we have to adapt and we have to in order to stay competitive you have to improve but like my biggest change I think if I have to say it is I can do what I used to do what used to take me this long now I can make it shorter but not because it's because I'm trying to force it to be short it's just because I understand the elements and the components of what I'm trying to teach and I pay attention to them and so the timeline is much shorter do you find the same yeah yeah that is exactly like for example in healing I would say that that's a very good example from that exercise that I can train it much more quicker get the same results in much shorter time and I don't have to spend so much time by thinking and I also can adapt to different docs like if I have that type of doc or this type of doc I do you would still

make it you would still make it but it was a longer process right to where right now and I maybe made some mistakes as well like not with the current competition docs but you know when I have been training and seeing you know like even fixing people's like training problems so now I would know like quicker ways to fix the issues and what is the missing part why it didn't work with that dog or this dog or something interesting so it's like coming like this how about tracking have you changed something there or not you know tracking for me I mean kind of like obedience and protection assuming that we have the dog that has the natural ability the natural of talent tracking is probably the one that really requires for you to get out and go fucking tracking and I agree and and just go and do it you know like like I really believe that most of the problems with tracking is the lack of enough trucks consistency right to where like in obedience just as you were talking about the healing I totally agree there can make it very much more efficiently from zero to stable not just to kind of understanding but to be stable in it I know what I'm doing and I understand it and I enjoy it and so on and for tracking for this to happen like I mean you gotta show him okay well it's raining well yeah it's raining we still gotta figure it out okay well it's a little hot well the grass a little tall well it's short well there is some cow shit like there is just too many things that they have to experience and unless you keep right right yeah and if you try to have a shortcut you kind of you you end up forcing the dog to where I think the worst thing in tracking is when the dog starts to feel pressured that they have to and they are not allowed to to think how to solve a puzzle in the truck because they know that you want them to go and then they start going and now it just rolls into problem after a problem it's a but I think it's somehow about going tracking and not trying I guess I need to add some important piece in this going tracking as much as possibly you can and not try with every single truck to make this big leaps of accomplishment because I think in tracking it happens more gradual I don't know step by step yeah I really agree it happens like more gradually there and you can't just make like huge improvement in tracking you cannot have those big experiences like I just told you in obedience for example hey let's try to make the one meter jump so quickly and this is not going to happen in in tracking because there you have to be more patient and just grinding grinding yeah yeah yeah which is not my patience really and my I think my biggest problem is exactly tracking because I realized that I haven't been tracking with my young dog because I was focusing more now with my competition dog

and I have been very busy with everything like really everything somehow and then now the winter is coming and I'm like I have maximum and I'm soon starting to travel I go to Turkey Belgium India and then it's the winter it's a full winter when I come back so I don't have more than two weeks time to track and I haven't been tracking last time I think two months ago with a young one so what happens how do you track in like I mean I'm sure even if you say you like you've tried tracking in the winter like how much would you track in snow or what I haven't I don't I don't I really don't like when we start to get the snow it's so it's so bad like it's like if there is no snow at least and just some dead hay yeah I mean it would be like the dog would just learn to kind of I mean I have never actually done that personally but never I have been tracking I think once in the winter time but it happened when it was super warm weather in December and we were able to do it like a few weeks or something and then actually the snow came but I have done it only this one time that it was maybe 5 degrees warm and it was just like a really wet field yeah so man that is a long time for just not touching tracking whatsoever how many months in a year like 3 months 4 months no no it's more it's more it can be even 6 months depending where you live so it can be from it can be from November until April I would say in most of places it's going to be 5 months like from November December January February March because in April the snow starts to melt already so you make and go depending but yeah it can be bad and in some years here in the south where we live it could be it's a bad winter when the snow is not coming and we can track until December and then for example we have only three months break or something but it's in the last years we have had quite cold weather and then it makes no sense when you see oh now it's one week snow melts away but then it can be only three days or something why to bother it makes no sense to have not consistent tracking in the worst case it goes badly and then you have no time to recover your dog from that for reason or another so yeah I have been actually thinking about if I should go somewhere like in January or February this year because now I really lost tracking possibility with my dog so I was thinking about maybe I should go I don't know like Spain or Brazil or somewhere but I can't come because you know I don't have the work visa yet so bad but today I did something really unique I wrote my first email to a lawyer immigrant this kind of lawyer immigration lawyer that I would apply that so I have done a good thing today and I hope he replies me cool yeah no they definitely I mean there is lawyers

that know what they're doing and there is always ways so that's a good thing because I really need to I love USA but I don't want to come there for leaving so no worries nobody have to worry about that I'm not going to be the bad immigrant I just want to come to visit your country for holiday and spending money there it's crazy right you know what I'm thinking something because now with the winter time and the tracking and it just got me to think about how are you feeling about training little puppies versus training starting to train a little older youngster like do you like some people start very early and do like like I I don't know I mean you will go to Bulgaria I think I don't know next year something I had I was there like a month or two ago and they had this nice puppies out of the same breeding like Glinda the same father and whatever and I mean they were like nine weeks old they were training like you would be training for a world championship and this is like a nine week old puppy just let it relax and have fun with it you know but I don't know some people start immediately right away quite intense some people start later there is always this toss-up between what is the best what is the do you mean about tracking or any training like just any training like and how serious you get into it how demanding you get into it like of course the dog should feel it's like fun you know and fun games and not feeling like work right I I start as early as possible if you know but in the winter time if I get a puppy so that he was born in let's say the worst time the born was a little bit like how Voitto was born because he was born in the end of the summer so basically he had tracking and everything only like a very little glimpse of it so he had put his nose on the ground and learned to find food until he was 3-4 months old 3-4 months old and then the snow came and then suddenly he was like a big dog and the snow melted away and he got his neck struck in May and he was like I felt like what's going to happen he had no idea but it's I have had dogs who have been born in November in January in April or in summer so it depends a little bit what can I do in which because it's a seasonable thing as well like we have these seasons here but I would otherwise start with a little puppy tracking showing him that food can come and I would like to introduce this and move forward but in a nice way and then in obedience also I move forward but not maybe what you mean is that sometimes I have seen nowadays people who are so obsessed about it when they especially see in Instagram or YouTube or somewhere they see puppies who can do almost like an adult dog that you have to get rid

without hand helps without visible targets when the dog is like three and half months old and that's going to be the biggest goal and you can go there with some talented puppies I mean they don't have to be talented even for winning the world championships but they have to just be talented for healing exercise and then they can learn to do it so quickly and then we have bunch of dogs that they can reach excellent healing one day if you just don't rush with them and try to bring them Instagram stars at this age because they just absolutely can't do this beautiful movement yet at this age because they need more prey drive they need more fighting spirit they need more energy come inside them first before they can show something like this they don't show it for the food for and you think that you are too serious about it and you are all the time like observing and you are stressed about the dog is now bouncing like or not bouncing but the dog is like let's say the dog is pacing how can you let him heal because he is not moving like he should and it's like he is not bouncing ! I think also with the young puppies like little puppies sometimes if they make a mistake it's much more difficult to say hey puppy that's a wrong thing to do because their little brain cannot get it yet right so like what you can demand from a 10 month old and say hey you you are with a puppy you can change it but you cannot like put like this obligation and pressure it's like no no no no you know like you have to be very tactful how to make it so well right but that's also one thing because some docs they need more guidance like you have to help them more but you cannot help them at that age you cannot give the feedback at this age for some like this and if if some kind of like physical help is needed and feedback is needed then you have to wait and this but I think it comes also from experience you know that oh I just keep my dogs now in break he needs to grow and then I can start this exercise again and meanwhile I don't have to keep my dogs just in the kennel I can just actually teach him the tracking I can teach him to play I can teach him forever like a good creep in front of me or something so you can move forward in other areas You know why I came up with this question is because I have this I think we talked about it a little bit I don't remember I have you know Kim but the one that I do the ! So I have a sister that I sold as a puppy and I sold her to do sports but the people just didn't have time so she was maybe 15 16 months old and she came back they just called me one day they were like she super cool but we are not doing anything and what I mean by not doing anything I mean she looked like a coffee table she was just like little Pat Marlino that didn't know anything 16 months old and within three months the amount of understanding of IGP that she

like she does in a lot of ways something way better than my boy and I find it a little bit easier to teach her and I don't know if it's just because she's so talented and she's searching to okay am I doing right you know it's one of these dogs like is that what you want right right which is super cool and we move very fast but like anything that I show her the difference between if I do it with a little puppy and do it with her like with her I immediately can I feel that she understands the purpose of the behavior like why do I need to do it this way or to where the puppy will do it but not understand it you know so that's kind of why I was asking how you feel about those because I haven't in a long time I haven't ! started that late with the dog and and if she was the only one that I trained we would be like like like I would feel that all this you know three months four months old five months old six seven nine ten all this time I wouldn't say that it would have been wasted time but I don't feel that I lost anything besides right now I just don't have the time yeah but it can also be I think it can be quite individual thing as well because in some cases if you have the dog who naturally wants to engage with people or maybe the owners even they didn't really train her anything but maybe they at least were able to teach her like a good relationship or something right right like making her feel self confident and she understood that it makes sense to look at the human and somehow something but then we also have those dogs that it depends how do they live if they live in the kennels or I have seen sometimes dogs that be living in the kennels or even in somebody's house but if the person hasn't been able to anyhow communicate with the dog or engage with the dog and if the dog has a little bit difficulties and no motivation generally to engage with a human it can be or the dog can be more impulsive dog or nervy dog or something it can also be quite a package like you of course and then we have those extreme dogs like you have this Tina Tina yeah yeah no no ! a window if you didn't right and for example with Tina I was thinking about this that did you say Tina or Tina Tina Tina Tina Tina so Tina so Tina I was thinking that I would love to have seen that dog that if you have if you would have been the breeder and you would have kept her from early beginning that would the dog never even be diagnosed by any kind of wrong behavior you know what I mean yes would the dog just be actually considered to be like maybe a little bit impulsive dog but still like completely normal dog you see what I mean a really good point and that is something

that so in the kind of way it also matters who keeps the dog and what kind of natural behavior natural personality the dog has that some dogs just they can become like perfect pet dogs but also perfect competition dogs even they would have been kept a bit different ways kind of and even you would start training them like later and then with some dogs it matters much more how they are raised yeah I love it yeah very good point so it's interesting to think about stuff like that How do you what you think about and you definitely experience that because of your winters but I'm not talking about this kind of a long break but like let's say two three weeks of for whatever reason just you you gotta go to India you gotta go to New Zealand you you cannot train you come back do you feel that there is more motivation and it comes more easy everything or do you feel that you need to catch up well how do you feel that kind of break affects the training often it doesn't affect much if it's just like ! three four weeks ! so not that much but again we come for this individual point that with some dogs it affects more positively and for some dogs more negatively and for some dogs not at all that's like my experience that yeah like and even what part it would affect like can be that the dog is a little more like if I have a dog who has a little difficulties to little difficulties in self control for example and then I have been away then maybe the first few sessions I have to remind them that it makes sense for them to control themselves and reward them from that and even sometimes correct them from that you want but also that extreme desire it's like I'm going to break the down because I really want to come for the recall right yes yes so we cannot like it's very delicate situation right not to not to I mean to get the control but not to break that motivation that's building up yeah yes and then also depending how tired you are from traveling right like we talked in the beginning about our emotions so sometimes when we come back and we wish that you know we kind of like we would like to start exactly where we ended up and then but now we are maybe a little bit more impatient maybe we are a bit tired or something like this so I have also learned some things like when I come back from somewhere that maybe I try to lower my expectations and then I can positively surprise When the dog is it to be completely perfect and starting from where we ended and then also understand myself like what I need when I come back after you know and it depends also on the dog because I have those dogs like that I am like I am so excited to again take my dog and go training him and then I have those I am like no no no let's go let's go training where is it going to go ! go again yeah you

know it's kind of like it is it is like it's like easier when you really you know get so much joy out of the training versus when you just take it as a learning process yeah so yeah I guess it goes both ways like also that you as the trainer how you feel about the separation right that's a good point yes yeah it's like it's like it would be like human relationships you know right very true and you are like you are like I love to come home and you know you know even you would have like a great travels but still of course traveling is stressful but you are like either you are coming home and you are enjoying also like that or whether you are like oh yes yes very true the holiday ended I know that yeah good one ! how about the how about the because like we bought well now you have your focus on one dog but for a moment you train two dogs and I I ended up training at the moment three I mean I have Tarzan I have the and now I have the the female that we just talked about because I took her back I'm like well I mean the genetics are right she everything is right about her I'm a breeder I have to keep her but then everything I showed her it just sky rockets and it would be so wrong not to train her so here I am with three dogs you for a moment had two dogs what is what is your feeling about focusing on one dog versus having two dogs and there is the dangers of course of when we have one dog and and I hope this never happens but you know like I've been actually now that I'm thinking throughout my years I've been twice in this situation where I had a very nice female one time and all of a sudden at two years old she decided that she is noise sensitive and it just it was the end of it then I had another male that I spent so like there is the you can spend three good years to get somewhere and there is this dead end and you have nothing issue or something can happen right for example right so how are you feeling about having two dogs versus one dog versus like what's your take on those I personally really enjoy just training one dog because I have a feeling that you always have your favorite kind of where you I have and I have so busy life and so many things going on that not only the dog sport but I do so many other things and I'm pretty sure that most of people do the same so you have your work maybe you do some exercising yourself maybe you travel maybe you have friends or family or children or something so I think that I would love to just focus on one dog and I have at least personally I have like clearly the favorite dog which I wanted to focus on but then I had the competition dog that I have to bring in front of the people's judging eyes and I really had to focus on that you know choose because often they have a bit different ! needs even

for tracking wise that you have to decide whether you go to track to the certain kind of area which is good for your older competition dog or you go to some easy field which is better for the puppy but you choose actually the competition one because you know that that is going to be judged soon and you just cannot risk that so you have to do that so I didn't have time to oh I first drive there and make my track and then after that I drive to another field and so I just didn't track them so much you know and so something like this but on the other way around what I'm now concerned is because I stopped training of course the elder one and now I'm just focusing on the young one but I was thinking that I would should I take this really cool young puppy what I right now have I x-rayed him and he has one vertebra two less so he has the LTV four because he doesn't have seven vertebras he has six vertebras and I don't have experience of this kind of thing I have experience of having Malinois once there was a female who had one extra vertebra so the back was very long and so the LTV four came from different reason but this dog I gave it like to one of my friend but this dog had to be put down later because he just had he she really got like big problems big issues in her and everything and now I'm really stressed about this that what if my dog for example starts to get symptoms one now he's perfectly healthy and the veterinarian and the orthopestate told me just keep on doing just like nothing would have happened you know like he would be perfectly healthy but then I was afraid of like what if they come spondulos or what if something happens and I'm like and then I have put all my heart and soul for this dog which I love to do but then on the other way around what if he's three four years old and I can't compete because he suddenly starts to limp and the part that sucks is that it's going to show right about that time right it's not going to show now yeah it's not going to show now and and then but then the veterinarians they told me like this that you know what you can have a perfectly healthy dog and you keep on training for years and one day he breaks the leg he just breaks the leg or he gets a cancer or he gets whatever you just don't know that just like us kind of like yeah I mean we can know that so basically but that made me thinking that I'm gonna die if even this happens to me so maybe I should take a puppy see that's crazy so you're already getting sucked into another one but then I'm just thinking if I would take a puppy I know that that puppy would be more like not like you mentioned before like crazy way trained he would be the puppy who just like you know learns to behave I make a little bit work I take it very easy way very relaxed way and then I will start to train one day more effectively I mean there is important imprinting if you want to call it that there are some important things that for sure you have to do as a puppy yeah foundation yeah for sure but not that like not that heavy way not that kind of like forcing like because of course like

when I'm thinking about that I want to make Voito the next world champion if it's anyhow possible or at least the greatest possible working block I can have and and so I also put more pressure on that also myself even I skip the tracking though but but then it's it's yeah no I know I know but you can also take it a bit more easy like also with I'm pretty sure that even Voito has had so much tracking now I can still catch it up because he's talented and he has like everything is in a good way so even it will start next spring I think I can you know I mean we know the tracking you just it's taking that long time if you have like reasonably talented dog nothing is like yet lost because I didn't track for two months you know I think with the young ones like where I was it just came to me about the you know like how with kids let's say a kid is really good at tennis and then the parents are like okay let's sign him up five times a week tennis and at some point the kid is like I'm not gonna ever as soon as I am old enough I'm not touching this anymore and it's not because he didn't like it to begin with but it just was they felt so forced into it that it was they killed the fun right I have had this a bit personally with myself in dancing like when I was kid so I was dancing six times in a week and only Sunday was free so always after school I went to dance school and I remember that I had never time to meet my friends or had a feeling that I didn't have so much time for that when friends meet each other and I have to go there and no matter like of course sometimes I wanted to go but there were moments I was like you know when we had like some dancing like ballet jazz dance modern and I didn't like all the teachers and all the lessons and it was like oh we have ballet today I would just like to go to jazz dance and so eventually I was teenager and I quit like everything like all of a sudden like now I can decide ! myself I and then every single day is going to sit down sit down here down and and listening to commands and learning to separate them then make the heating the hand is up learning to go around all kind of things what you can do with food because you can work a lot with food and we have a lot of puppies ! who are not that food motivated and they work because they have and make it fun for the dog but if it comes for the dog like oh I you know and the handler feels herself for him that I must do this obedience every morning and every day time and every evening otherwise my dog doesn't make progress and then also the dog starts to feel like the same pressure like the handler doesn't have fun maybe the dog starts to have not so much fun and the handler feels that the dog is not that talented like some other dog what he sees in the Instagram or the

brother shows so much more progress you know same time and then the handler starts to feel like he doesn't get the ears up I don't get the tail so happy he really drops the head always when I start first step healing forward what should I do but I know I know yeah there is a man what was the name a really cool I'll post the link for everybody as well but a documentary about some of the biggest superstars in the sports it's called In Search of Greatness and so they were kind of the documentary goes about Wayne Gretzky you know the famous hockey player and the Williams the tennis sisters and like just like the biggest superstars of different sports and they interview them and they kind of go back into their lives and because of the coaching today how you know a coach will go and you have to fit you have to if you're going to do this sport you have to be about this height you have to be about like a certain look a type and then you have to train so much and almost none of those superstars fit like if a coach was to select them today for their sport they would totally just ignore them and Wayne Gretzky was really I mean they all were I mean I highly recommend the movie like he what was the name of the movie in search of greatness I'll put the I'll send you the link you would absolutely love it so he's like okay it was winter time so we play hockey there is nothing else to do the lakes are frozen we play hockey then spring comes we play basketball we climb trees we're kids we do you know like we do things so they had the freedom to explore and just kind of get better in many different areas instead of this narrow minded hockey only right and so the gist of it in the documentary was that you know you gotta allow the kids to grow in in many different areas instead of just focusing them in one place even though that's their main talent very cool movie which kind of goes what we're talking about you know yeah yeah yeah and and I think it's it could be applied a bit with the dogs as well in this way and especially in our sport because we have so we have three disciplines and when you get a puppy you can already see from the little puppy where the puppy is the most talented or he can be in different areas talented he can be all of them but then when we see that there is some part where he's a bit having some struggles or maybe or at least we have to wait or give more time or do some other things so the good trainer the good coach in this case who wants to race a super dog star should kind of see it that this puppy needs now just playing and I'm gonna make him great in that way or this pup needs more this and give different experiences

and now I just teach with food I do another kind of games but he enjoys but I don't go forward for example in the healing or something right or I don't go forward in that or something so of course we have also some dogs that are not talented for any one of those and they are just not the sport dogs right but then most of dogs are not the multi talented in every single thing so like with humans it would be the same that they can become like super cool stars but we have to coach them a bit differently to reach their full potential and that's the key to be able to kind of navigate step out and it's like okay that's not what I would do but that's what the puppy needs sometimes and also I think this is so important to also to understand that in our sport there is no like like one method that has to be forcefully done or execute it's that the best results always come when you learn to adapt and go a little bit choose always individual like choose it wisely like what you do and what not to do and read the dog all the time and also I think that's also the funny part is reading the dog all the time because you can do this kind of reading in a clever way without putting pressure on the dog or you can be obsessed about that as well like oh I have to read now the dog now the dog shows the ears go behind and now the dog feels insecure yeah he feels insecure because you feel insecure or the dog feels unsureness or confused he's confused because he just doesn't know what to do and you don't show him the way or something so yeah we can also do that like obsessed or we can have it we can do it in a nice way where do you think it's going the emotions what do you think about the do you think the stick hits will come back stick hits in protection do you think it was a good ! thing anyway ! to take them out Yeah it was a good thing like the you know I mean two years ago they decided okay we're not gonna do the stick hit in protection yeah do you think that was a good idea what do you think no no it was not it was such a stupid idea but it's a little bit the same like we have this I'm most afraid of the same happens with the stick hits that happens with airplanes that they make new weird restrictions that you cannot fly with dogs and they just kind of like to keep it so you kind of don't get back for the old ones but no I think it was stupid because first of all we have it's like martial arts and it's just dogs who enjoy the fight they also enjoy the stick hits and when you make it forbidden you it's okay it's not okay to hit the dog because stick hits are like a it's like a kind of it's a kind of a game with the challenge and the good dogs they get more excited and they're like oh I'm going to make more fight and I get more excited and then you have to keep on fighting with them like so gently that I don't touch the dog with the stick I do nothing I don't even you know then the dogs the good dogs are like feeling it a bit even boring right yes they feel it's a bit like it's like playing with a kid some game like some

board game and letting him win so that he feels that you let him win and there is not actually a ! real opponent Dr. Sergio Peles and he famous with doing researching play with animals and specifically a lot of times he spent with rats and how they play and basically figuring out what play is good for and why we play and so on and this came up in the conversation which we know even if we don't think about it intuitively we appreciate that there is some when two dogs play when two people you know that there is a challenge and there is some level of discomfort that you kind of want to mess with it you want to experience it you want to overcome it and when you do you grow out of that you know and that's where the like the all the animal rights and the force free trainers they start comparing I don't know some golden retriever or chihuahua or something to a German shepherd right and it's like well how many people want to get punched in the face not not everybody right but there is kids that dream that they gonna end up in a fight in a competition and test themselves and they see it as a in a very different way than somebody else and just a random person who doesn't make boxing for example yes yeah and then if you think about like you remember we have been in roller coasters roller coaster together in Disneyland right or somewhere we have been in Samba okay so you see it's this comfortable I don't like when it starts to go down but eventually it's cool feeling right like eventually it was fun right and so but it's a little discomfort there but we don't go for that kind of it makes some people they don't want to go to this kind of like a like a we have a name like a post so you know in Finnish it's like a peak train like for little kids like for those three year old ones where there are not big hills but others don't want to go there because it would feel like exactly why would I go there because it's not even a hill you know and then it doesn't make any discomfort so people do lots of things to excite them like even you would like to get punched in the face or you don't want to do ! boxing but a lot of people want to go to amusement box and part of this kind of amusement box idea is that you do things that are a bit scary and you feel slight discomfort even sometimes a little bit fear but then you overcome it and you're like I was so brave and it was so cool and we go again that was actually funnier than I thought and you want to go again to the ! equipment or so on you know and what is the cool part is that it's all by choice like you cannot force a dog to do protection you cannot force it they either like it or they don't just like a boxer they either like to box or they don't and when we were talking they don't want that you know right right and when you see the dogs that we train

you see ! there is like we talk about it when I was in Florida with Mahis when he was young and that people should see when we already take him from the car or the kennel or somewhere and we bring them to the field how much they pull and he was so happy that he didn't know I was jumping up and down and it's the ultimate high ultimate high and ultimate happiness what this dog can ever feel anywhere and to take that joy away from that dog it would be in my opinion animal cruelty almost right no for sure for sure it will be that's kind of what so when we were talking about the play with that professor you know what he mentioned was we know this like everybody knows it which is like you don't need like you almost don't need a study for something like this but if two rats play or if two dogs play and the one play is way too nice the other one would rather pick somebody else to play with to where there is a little more challenge to where he's trying to grab him by the neck but the other one doesn't let him right yeah like there's gotta be a little bit of that otherwise who wants to play just as you said like who wants to go in the baby two year old roller coaster yes hopefully I mean I hope that somehow this gets reversed because it changed like it really changed like when I look at it right now our sport is not quite the same and just taking the emotions like generally thinking that the animal I don't know how to say that I have been I have to say them like I know I shouldn't say that but I'm kind of like the extremists those real animal talibans they always want to take all the emotions like emotions would be a bad thing and they try to make every dog should stay calm and not experience anything and just be all the time so oh yeah and that is like it's just so and this is a night this is the nightmare for a dog like yours or mine dog like they it's a nightmare you have to put them on some some prosac you have to like like that would be the worst thing possible yeah yeah and for yeah so it's it's and then they start to have all kind of bad behaviors like this Tina dog for sure you have experienced not all of course but more that direction they start to bark at people they start to get like loud in the house and do stupid things just because they don't feel the ultimate happiness ever and they're trying to find that experience and they end up finding it in their own way it's like with people I mean if you don't bring those active kids to do for example hockey or boxing or whatever like sport where they can feel the excitement and so on they also end up the streets and do stupid things they end up finding their dopamines ! from drugs or criminal actions and we also have people we always have to remember we have people who are perfectly happy just drawing nicely and painting some books for three hours in a row and then we have also as an adult

they also have fun to do things that makes them calm they like to go to day spas and they like to do things like that which like I mean personally I hate to go spas I'm like what I'm doing in the spa I'm like it's for me it's like it's not picturing the thing that I enjoy to lay there in some jacuzzi you know no I think that's the problem right that's the problem trying to put everybody in the same yes it's like well like the classic one is like well I have three dogs and my dogs never chase anything and they don't need whatever it's like great that your dogs don't I can condition them with the food perfectly yes everything I have been so good trainer I always gave them food and they will have never chased any animals because this whatever counter works so perfectly with them and it's like yeah right and then yeah so so so so labeling dogs labeling people to the same box and thinking everybody has same needs is so wrong because dogs really have personalities they have so different kind of personalities even inside the same breed and then we even have so many dog breeds that as we know for Chihuahua it would be animal cruel ever to threaten him with a stick and let him bite right to the sleeve yeah and everybody knows that but then we have dogs who really enjoy of that and do you think there is a chance that we can reverse this or no I don't know I hope but I hope that the whole world I think we just have to change the whole I hope the whole world would go more reverse because it's not only about this thing I think that is wrong nowadays that we have become so like we are offending our minds like like because we think that or some people think that an animal suffers when we train and and the person has never asked from that animal does he really suffer you know and the same happens become so sensitive that we are like I felt bad because I saw something and then well it doesn't mean that it was a bad thing because you felt so you know what I mean like exactly that not what you are feeling is not like and this is another another big problem that we always have it's deciding like the humans deciding what the dog may or may not like instead of watching the dog telling you what they like and then like we have to decide for them how wrong is that yeah but you know they will say nowadays with humans right they're like I felt unsafe yes because you said something that made me feel unsafe even it's not like about me but maybe somebody else could come offended about your birds you know you know what I mean so maybe so it happens a bit the same like if you if you crack some blonde jokes you know and I'm kind of like a fake blonde but whatever I don't feel offended about that right or something that's interesting yeah yeah that's that's such an interesting yes yes but if you do it in some other way it's like you

you're gonna be cancelled or something yes so we are like cancelling people about a lot of things and I hope that the whole world would go back a little bit for this that that people need resilience dogs need resilience we should actually instead of trying to save everybody from all the little uh discomfortable situations we actually could learn how can we become more stronger and learn to handle like you know different emotions and get up from that and and and and and then also the one thing is that we should always be able to discuss about things and not get so offended by something what somebody has done or some somebody has said that we cannot that the person or the animal or anybody has not even right to show after that actually it didn't mean anything you know or or or what they really meant or something because nowadays some things are so sensitive topics that we cannot even talk about it and I think that's the first issue that we should be able to talk about the stickheets and talk about these kind of things and and and and whatever it is I hope that we do I hope that it it's time to to and I understand like I totally understand like okay if if some country without naming any country but if some country has went so far out to be so extremist and it's they have no chance okay then let them deal with it but don't impose it on everybody else so you know like there was no like I at least from what I understand with the stickheets and I don't know if why I probably why I brought it up but it's always in my mind because I tell you why because I just watched the the Bundesliga ! and I'm gonna watch the FCI and you will and and we're watching a different game without the without that little challenge we're watching a different game it's just not the same and I think that's kind of why it came to my mind to talk about it what is really the the big puzzle for me is that nobody actually complained nobody forced the IGP community to get rid of the stickheets that was from from what I understand it came like from inside without the force of the animal rights exactly they were like thinking that we prevent like problems happening by making it this beforehand you know something like that and then the crazy part here is that in training like for example like how to say like it it goes for this direction that how you are playing with your dog are you allowed to touch your dog during the game are you allowed to things and something like this and and like and for example when my dog is holding a toy in the mouth and I'm taking him from his cheek like like both hands like grabbing like what is this and I make these kind of emotions on him and he's going to be like oh it's mine and he becomes more possessive and he really fights hard for his softball or his little fox or whatever he has in the mouth toy fox not a real fox so just everybody who is even the animal right activist so when he's like it's

going to be mine but even this kind of like of course the same kind of movement if I would do it to Chihuahua when he has no toy in the mouth and I would do the same they would get super scared right but the same thing during the game is kind of like like look how the dogs are wrestling by themselves like you look to malignomans play fighting each others they do much to bite each others or something they are happily just playing and I do the same when I played with my dog like this but it can be like everything can be all the physical because in my country the animal activists are saying that you shouldn't never even touch the dog like in any way not doing playing not doing like like like like basically the whole touching is like like I I don't help you you're dominating the dog and the dog didn't consent for you to do this and they just go crazy you didn't ask permission from your dog and just as you said like how you explained with the you know the dog holding his toy or the dumbbell and you grab it like we can argue that that's actually what the dog is really waiting for this is like the ultimate highlight moment it's like oh yeah test me try me let me show you like they're hoping that you're going to do that right yes and when she sees I'm coming she's like oh she's gonna come here and then I'm like yeah I'm gonna have that and then he's like yeah it's so strong and Julie of course my dog clients like so this is the whole how the little puppies I build them up and then how they learn to play and that doesn't make them more aggressive that doesn't make them any how more difficult to control or something we have very clear communication they have perfect out I mean most of those dogs who are trained you know this force free method and they try to play somehow with their dogs most of them end up having big conflicts without and eventually they cannot even play with their dogs because their dogs aren't let out that's the typical situation in my country I see this so much because they can never give any feedback for the dog you know and the owners get frustrated because they are told okay this is wrong they feel that that's what they should do and the dog is not like clearly not happy of how they interact and I don't know and yeah there are many things how it impacts on the dog and even in many situations it makes the dogs much more insecure because they don't have that kind of first of all they don't have fun with their owners like that much fun like those dogs that we can play those kind of games the second thing is that they also never learn to trust anybody because they cannot rely on the person the person is always a bit insecure just an observer and they know that they never like because they can never you know anyhow control the dog physically either so I can honestly say that the most unhappy dogs of my breeding what I have sold dogs have been the ones that have gone to families where they tried to train them completely force free

and they can't and I just got a message today from one papaya who has trained the dog completely force free the dog is now I think I don't know four five years old and I think five or something and or six even I don't know and then the dog cannot go to BH the dog has like a yellow line on the leash that means that the dog is aggressive to other dogs and people and you know but the handler has chosen to train the dog in a certain method and what can you do interesting there is just like I can't I don't even try honestly I don't even try to help anymore like my time went already like I can help if the dog was three months old right yeah yeah but now we are already in that situation where the only possible way to make the dog under control in all those situations that would mean already like much more stronger correction right which is not possible to do in my country right right right so I don't I can't help anymore and so it's like yeah you know because you know we can't use any equipment what you can use we cannot do this and that even even though that we can use them those animal rights and force free trainers they they still get very loud and very upset even the even the problem would be fixed in right right one day or a couple of they would actually they would actually hate it if when it gets fixed and then they will say oh that was a quick fix of course it was a quick fix but when they say that was a quick fix they mean that that was just fixed for the moment but actually it's going to have big problems later on it's like man you cannot talk to these people it's frustrating yeah and I think that if the doc has had that problem already four years then how we can talk about quick you know what I when they would put it on medication and I mean yeah medication and I know for example that this handler like this dog what I just mentioned about she has been with this dog she has been going to a professional dog trainer regularly like continuously force free trainer but still they are not able to make the dog even behaving that well that the dog would pass the BH it will take time that's what they say it will take time you need to be patient you need to and then when it doesn't when clearly it's not working what they end up doing which is very like I hate that part then they start blaming the owner of the dog that they are not doing the right they are not following the instruction correctly it's not the system or the breeder or the breeder has bred a dog that has no impulse control or not that control or not that you know that's another thing they blame the dog's personality or they blame the handler that she is not doing it correctly but that's why we need to make sure that the sport and not just IGP I think all the protection sports all the dog sports

stay the way they are and we don't submit to the pressure because it causes problems I mean these are unhappy dogs that eventually end up being a problem dog simply because as we were saying like with the kids they end up doing bad things on the street instead of getting better at the gym and learning discipline and how to be good contributors to society and so on yeah yeah yeah and as a breeder I have also learned that my interview for the papyrus is nowadays also different like like my questions I'm asking are something like if you would need to physically prevent your dog like chasing cars or animals or fighting kids or whatever are you able to do that are you ready to do that could you do that how it fits to your personality so I have like a certain kind of mental test for the papyrus or something like I like it and if they say no I don't you know if and then and then it's it's like and when I have since I decided to do this kind of thing I have been able to have actually just like the right papyrus yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I like it I mean if they feel like that I would say I would recommend you to take for example like another breed completely another breed you know they can take because maybe the dog will face a little bit similar issues but not in they are not at least big dogs and yeah you know yeah and and we also have those dogs that are just less demanding generally so exactly exactly so then those are the dogs that they should be taking I I'm thinking also you know like there I mean there are some but these are the exceptions this is just not how it is there are some force free trainers that can get somewhere they cannot get at least not yet I mean I'm yet to see some force free trainer get to where you have been consistently they cannot yet but they can do pretty good job touch with dogs anyway their timing their body language has to be so good already and when they have this passion combined with their physical abilities like they have good body control good voice control excellent timing and knowledge behind and the ambition ! to do that and they are ready to put their time and effort on that they can bring the dogs to the championships they can bring them to championships with good dogs there and so on but the problem happens when we have people who have done already mistakes right I mean it's like it's difficult to fix the mistakes and somebody has not the same time not the same skills not the same this and that and a

little bit more complicated dog even and then this is like there are so many challenges that you can't anymore fix them with the reasonable time if you just are ideologist you know and like your ideology is then like too limited yes you're restrained by the ideology and the methods what you can use they are also limited like I said that when for example I told you about this one unfortunate pup who has learned to misbehave so badly when the problem is already huge even I can't help him even I would like to help and I would have knowledge about the positive methods I know it's not going to work so now it's not possible anymore and then actually the only way to help the doctor best and the only ethical way would be to actually help the dog would require another kind of actions ! but that's why I hope that we are not in a situation where soon we have more and more of these kind of problems yes I think it's very important that we stop backing up and always be like feeling guilty it's like no there's no evidence there is no reason for this yes yeah absolutely yeah man where we went I didn't mean to go in this conversation but it always comes up and it started with the stick hits because again just watching the competition and it's like man like it's like going to you know UFC or boxing but you're not hitting each other it's like no that's not the game you're just fake hitting yes right it's called shadow boxing yes it's like a joke yes even I could endo boxing if you're not allowed to hit because you know right you know I'm like I don't want to have like I don't want to have like different lips or broken bones in my nose I don't want to mouth on my nose I'm very sensitive person about my face right so I don't want to do boxing but but if there would be shadow boxing you know maybe that could be my spot so in some ways you can say okay we have more more dogs and more can participate but what about what about the people that actually the only reason they're doing it is because of that discomfort because they like to do exactly that that you cannot take it away maybe maybe we reverse it I hope I'm I'm positive that maybe even the people up there that are hopefully listening to us maybe maybe we change it but often often in the world things happen like they go with one extreme to another and then eventually it's coming back when we realize that it was like even with children education it doesn't function on that way that we just with every single child is educated the same way and we never have and we never use any punishments with them or anything because you know even that is changing or so yeah so hopefully this changes so Mia where are you going what are you doing next where is the next travel next travel is gonna be in Belgium Belgium

cool so Belgium yes in October so that's the next one and what is your one I haven't been to Belgium in a while my next one really my next one is like all I'm focusing is the nationals that that's like my my like everything is in there right now because it's just two weeks away then I'm doing Hong Kong but that's more of a like a protection dog stuff and I'm well it's already organized a very interesting big event in England when do you go to Hong Kong Hong Kong is like two days after so like mid the middle of October going there for two weeks I have quite a few clients with the protection dogs there and you know periodically I gotta go and check on this but January it's like gonna make a really big event in England three days just kind of talking about stuff that we talked a little bit about and try to bring common sense back in dog training and what dog training is about and so I'm already preparing for this one and we had the study out you heard about it yes we gonna work on another one now of course the first three hated and they should it's totally fine we have hated every single study they did for the last 20 years and we have no idea what the studies were about and how they did it in the one that we did we actually can explain everything and you know what is the I'm gonna be talking about this eventually make like a little presentation but I don't you know like I don't really it's not so important to me the comparison between the force free and the dogs with electric collar which one is better because you can have different ways to do it what was very important is that we demonstrated very clearly that you can use electric collar and there is no this tragic side effects for life that the dog gets so traumatized because they have experienced electric collar this absolutely was shown that that's not the case like the dogs were just totally cool very playful just just you know now if anybody thinks we can do the force free side better sure we can do the electric collar side better like nobody for example when we use electric collar we also use positive reinforcement which in the study wasn't allowed we had some you know parameters that we had to follow so I would understand for example that normally every dog trainer modern world at least most of what I know would first of all motivate the dogs know what here means like here you know and they have been conditioned for

that like like a long time and they have been rewarded from that long time and then if they still decide to chase the animal and you call them here then comes for example no here or some kind of correction it can be made with a leash or it can be done like in your test it was done with e-color but anyway and then when the dog would then react and be praised and rewarded from that like for example I do like this personally with my dogs without e-color for sure because you know why do it for the puppies and in my country we cannot have the e-colors but the same idea I conditioned my dog first here and then my dogs are on the leash and when they first time they don't react on me I correct them with leash and make sure you can't do that and before they have chance to start to chase something so basically my dogs have learned already on that way but nevertheless I think if they are judging it should have been done better with a positive group but it could have been done in both ways better like you mentioned not only like and that was the idea the idea was to show that dogs don't get like lifelong stress or any seriously negative side effects after getting correction from E.Colar and it was highly effective and we can do it in a very timely manner and it was without the negative side effects That every single study loves to say that there are and as you said we did it in a way that that's not exactly how a trainer would do it so but it's okay for them to be upset some of them like I know that some of them they will never change like you can really try to tell them that the earth goes around the sun and you can show all the proof you want to and they will not accept it it's okay and those people you know like we cannot deal with that but little by little I think we're starting to to stand our ground and to say like no you cannot bullshit us like everything that you're saying in a study we're not seeing it we're the people that train dogs every day and we're not seeing what you have seen and you're trying to convince us now yes that's not to say like of course there is people that are just bad people that do bad things to animals but they don't need any kind of equipment to do bad things right no no so absolutely not and yeah and one of my veterinarian friend has once stated to me that the worst when she has been seeing like like really bad things in her career like when the animals have been abused they have been done by that poorly by hands or like or legs like kicked or you know like hit or something so they haven't been actually done with any dog training equipments like not with collars or not with something like that so those

situations where they have to for example put the dog down or put an animal down because it was so badly violently abused abused so abused so some kind of like really crazy situation so it's very unfair to put everything into the same basket it's like no there is like there is animal abuse and I think we all are against animal abuse but what animal abuse really means and what you are like in the keyboard in your computer fighting against yeah like even like with humans you know when we think about like home violence or anything I mean people can be so badly violated by either mental violence but even if you think about physical violence I guess in most of cases it's just it's not like done with some special equipment that should be abundant it has been done by by you know bare hands basically or whatever equipment what was available at a certain moment when the person was losing his you know self control and getting aggressive so that's a completely different thing and eventually a lot of equipments have been created for sure to actually prevent violence happening but you don't have to do that you don't have to prevent the dog violently like like like you know chasing an animal like like really like pulling like letting him run like 10 meter and then stop him with a rope or something that goes circle around himself or whatsoever when you can do it also like more clever way you know this is like a bad example but kind of that way but of course like in my country we cannot even talk about ecolar so we are cancelled about that we are forced to not to do that in my country we have to kind of everybody agree that for example ecolar is in every single situation a horrible equipment and you cannot use that and that is already like like I think something that it for this works for me that I cannot openly even even consider about like even talk about you or asking about your opinion about it or something because it's like I'm basically forced to not even talk about that and I think it's even like kind of like crazy that we cannot even talk about it e-cola yeah strange you see my point like yeah but in my country it's like maybe people who don't train dogs maybe they could talk about it but if you are dog trainer it's like even I mentioned it's right now here and even I mentioned that I can talk about it they would just record this part of our conversation and they would use this against me and they will do probably one day because that's their goal to show that if I even talk about it I must be a bad person so it has come that far here and so I hope that in your country you can keep on discussing about different options because in some situations it can be useful I think we were fortunate enough to learn from what happened in Europe and also having the internet comparing to what it was 10 years

ago right now we can say no no listen I also can tell you that something is not right you cannot just kind of go silently into the government and pass some law without nobody knowing it cannot happen anymore we are ready for this and we will we also have something to say about they tried to do this in San Francisco it was a year ago they called it shock free San Francisco and somehow they thought that they gonna sneak in and pass a legislation law that they will ban in the electric color and then all the trainers learn about it and we went and we you know there was a hearing and you know we stand up and all of a sudden the people that were supposed to you know make this law they realized that there is a lot of people a lot of people a lot of dog trainers that have a different opinion that not everybody agrees on that and then they were like oh hold on we are not ready to do this that's not like what you're presenting that's not the whole dog training community doesn't accept that and so I don't know we we're in a good place and I am actually hoping that eventually we can start to kind of reverse things even further back in Europe to where to some extent because it doesn't make sense like nothing makes sense I don't know we also know that you know we have had laws let's say we have had laws in Finland where alcohol was forbidden right and in Europe like when it was considered like you see my point like we have had all kinds of laws so nothing what is now solid it doesn't mean it has to be five years later 10 years later or 15 years later so things can change and we have had a lot of laws that we thought that it would never change but actually it has changed ! stay optimistic and not make everything forbidden just because somebody will drink too much right yeah I mean there is people that will drive their car and hit somebody and kill somebody it doesn't mean we ban cars all of a sudden nobody drives cars I mean this is ridiculous yeah right cool okay good conversation hopefully I don't know where I'm seeing you again it's gonna be somewhere in Europe I guess hopefully next year in the FMBB and I wish best luck to your nationals for both of you you and Natalia so I really hope to see you in the team super and if you compete I definitely want to come to visit in Greece super super okay Mia we stay in touch so good one yes take care bye bye

bye bye bye bye bye !