에피소드 74: FMBB 세계 챔피언 Natalia Balabanov

What did you think when you realized that you actually won the championship and that you are a world champion? When did that happen? When was that first feeling and how did it go? Yeah. Yeah. Well, coming off the field when they announced the scores, I had no clue. I mean, I was just happy that we got good points. But I had no clue that I actually won. And now we have a video of you walking up to Enrico. Yes. To Enrico. Enrico and asking. And I'm asking him, like, what's my place? What place? What did I get? Something like that. Just casually I'm asking him, so what is my place? And he tells me with this big smile and tears in his eyes that I won. And whoo. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I just lost it then. What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? It's a world champion. Amazing. Seriously? Seriously? Seriously? Seriously? Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Yeah! Yeah, you should. It was... Everybody... I mean, you kept everybody on the edge. It was, for me, by far, not because it was you, but it was the most dramatic championship that I have been part or I have witnessed. And another fun fact, I believe that it was my 30th 3-0 World Championships that I have personally participated, which is wild. So when I'm saying that, to me, it was the most traumatic end of competition, I really felt that way. And... We'll get there, but first I wanna... I wanna talk about Glinda. Okay. Yeah? Your dog. The best female. Okay. Yeah? Your dog. The best female. So she... Last year, she got a bunch of best female trophies at the FCI IGP Worlds, at the FMBB IGP Worlds. And... Was she always special? Or was there a moment where you said, that one is different? Well, when she came to me, and I spent some time with her, I just knew right away that she's very special. And actually, like, a couple months after, when I got her, like, I knew. I said it, and I didn't say it just casually. Like, I knew we're gonna enter the World Championship stage in 2025. And I knew this dog is the... The best dog that I've ever had, and the dog that can actually make my dream come true. I did believe it from the very beginning. And I just knew it. I just knew it. That's it. And... Some trainers are... Very quick to give up on a dog.

They get a dog after dog, and are very impatient, and expect certain things, and... Like, almost zero patience. Push the dogs too far. Do things that they shouldn't be doing, just because of that main objective. To do the best they can, and hopefully win a championship. What problems did Glinda have? Or was it a smooth ride all along? Oh, no. It was not. Tell us. Um... I don't think that she had a problem. Like, I knew she was absolutely exceptional dog. I knew that I... I am not that trainer yet, that can actually show how great she is. So... We've had a lot of struggles in training. Um... You know, I was coming from a dog that was very... Very willing to work. Um... Always jumpy, always happy, always, you know, like... And this one was just like... You know, when you actually see her outside the field, like... You would say that this dog can do anything. Right. You know, she just sits there. She's very laid back. Very laid back. You know. I mean, very laid back. Yes. And if she doesn't have to, she doesn't move. Like, all the dogs would go crazy. Something is going on. She's just sitting there and watching. Like, absolutely. Like, you would say, oh my gosh, the dog doesn't have drive. This dog can do nothing. And it was very shocking for me. You know? But then... Especially when we're talking about Malinois, right? Yes. Yes. And... And then I also, like, started realizing the bloodlines. You know, like, certain bloodlines bring certain types of dogs. So, you know, that was a huge learning curve for me. Having this type of dog. And... You know, going into IGP, where it's all about flashiness and, you know, like, bouncing and all that crazy, flashy things. And there she is. It's just like, she doesn't even look like she would do anything. But... Yeah. Then when it came to work, she absolutely was top. Yeah. She's always on. Always on. And I mean, I... Again, I learned with her. I kept saying that she challenged me a lot as a dog trainer. I had to work hard for certain things. But once it was there, and once we clicked, and once we're like, okay, it's us. It just things went... She was very forgiving of my mistakes, of my lack of knowledge. And of course, having you. I mean, you know how many times I cried after training sessions. Yeah, that's kind of what I want to ask you, actually. Is it easier or harder having me as a two-time world champion, being your husband and training partner and so on? I guess both. It was...

It was harder because I always feel like I have to prove way more. Like, I always have... I'm always behind, like, I'm always chasing. You know, it's like you have already accomplished so much. And there is me with my dreams, and I'm just chasing and chasing and chasing. And... Yeah, it was just not easy. The easy part, I would say, would be that you had always answers for my lack of knowledge. Interesting. Because I... So... So... But there have been times, and I want you to think of those, like, when are the times that you actually ignore my advice? I can't remember when I actually did that in training, when I ignore your advice. I know... I know... I know at the competition, those finals sometimes, you know, like at the Swan Nationals that I said before my obedience when I got 98, I said, I just need to go and do something with Glinda. I remember that. I just knew that I have to, like, go for five minutes and do... Get rid of me. Get... No, no, no, no. Just do me and her. Yes. I think that's a thing. And I'll be good. And it was... It was just for my peace of mind. And I didn't not... I didn't need anybody at this point around me. I just needed to make sure that what I had in my head, I'm gonna do this couple minutes of training with her and we're gonna be fine. And yeah, I... That's most likely would be those moments when it's time to compete. Where I just know, like, okay, like, again, I think it's more for the... for my peace of mind. Right. Than anything else because... How about in training? Like, I'm sure all those people that are watching, they wanna hear the backstories. Like, what... Like in training, what is sometimes unknowing? Like, what unknowes you about training with me, you know? Let's hear it. Oh, well. That you sometimes just have to tell me the same thing so many times. That I know already. And like, let's say, we would say something after the finished session and the next one, like, I'm thinking and I'm gonna do it. But there you are, just repeating the same thing. Five times the same that I just like, okay, but I know this. I got it. You know? And you just like, make me mad. You know? Like, I'm like, I got it. I got it last time. Like, you don't have to repeat yourself so many times. Very true. Very true. Yes. It's like, okay. Okay. All right. Let's get back to Glinda. I'm interested and I think people will be interested to hear this. You know how there is always the conversation between nature versus nurture, genetics versus training. You know, how much genetics come in place and how much the training comes in place.

And since we're talking about genetics and obviously breeding and selection, you know, gotta acknowledge Mia Skogster and Parendo Vinces Glinda Kruk. Yes. And also the father, you know, Christopher Joris in Belgium, which are the people that are basically put this together as the software in the computer. Yes. But then there was training. So how do you see this? Yes. So a long time ago, I've heard something that just stick with me. I think it was 2018. I want to say 2017. For me, that's not long ago. 2018. Yes. And it was actually Harry. Mm hmm. Archen. Yeah. Yeah. There was some nationals and he was doing the seminar for the judges. Mm hmm. And we went and we listened. And he said back then that to have an excellent, I might chop up, you know, a bit exactly. I don't remember, you know, the words he used, but he said like to have the excellent showing, to have the excellent performance, you need excellent dog and excellent training. That's it. It's not possible otherwise. Absolutely not. To be on the top. No. You need this both two components to have the excellent genetics and excellent training. You can definitely get the appreciation for excellent training. Yeah. But if you don't have a dog. But when you don't have the raw material, it's hard. It's hard. And the other way around, you can say, well, this is an amazing dog, but the training is not there. Right. Exactly. And I think we've seen it many, many times. I mean, we've seen it all the time because there are so many great trainers out there. Yeah. But the dogs are just not the dog with this genetics that, you know, it's needed to pull through to make it happen. And the other way, you know, so I think we've seen it, we see it a lot. So yeah, these words, when he said that it was like for me, a magic, you know, it's like, wow, this was so simple, but so clear. Yeah, exactly. It is, it is very simple formula. Yeah. That we all need to like it or not. We have to accept that as the truth, the reality. So you won a world championship with a female, which is impressive. It doesn't happen often. It has happened in the past, but it does not happen often. The interesting thing is that you also have competed on the world platform with a male. How is it for you male versus female? There is sometimes trainers are very particular and it's like, no, I have to have a male or no, I cannot work with a female. I need a male and the other way around. Tell us a little bit about, because you had a exceptional male as well. That was just very beatable dog. Like he, he would work for almost no external reinforcements.

Right? Yeah. How, how, how is it different to compete with a female for you? So I used to think that it's all about the males. You know, I guess most people think this way, that it's, you have to have a male to, to really accomplish something and go high. And I, you know, I thought the same way. And I changed my mind when I got Glinda. It really doesn't matter. Good dog is a good dog. Is it a female or a male? It does not matter. So now it really doesn't matter. I wish, like if I would get another dog, female like Glinda, I will have no hesitations. It's just harder to get a great female, I think. And, but if I would get another one like her. What makes you think that it's harder to get a female that will be competitive and give. I think it's because of this, what I just said, people have this false assumptions that, that female must be worse. And it's just absolutely not true, which were the examples. And it was not only the female, but female in heat, you know, which is another thing that people thinking, nobody even goes and watch females in heat. You know, because nobody even thinks that, that they are worth the watch. Unless there is a dramatic culmination of the event. And then everybody's like sitting in the pouring rain waiting to see what the hell is going to happen. Yes. Did you have to do any like specific adjustment in your training because she's a female or, or like, did you treat it in any way? No, no, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And, and as you know, we were, we were joking all along with everybody that we've trained with that she's like a male, you know, she, it's funny story also because like even people would talk to me as she would be a male. And I had to tell them, no, this is not a male because of her size, because of how she's built, because how she acts. How she carries herself. Exactly. Yeah. Um, this is on the field, but off the field, you definitely know she's a girl. Right. That's the crazy thing. Right. Yes. Cuddly she's super like, yes, she's loving. She's just absolutely amazing. Cuddly dog. You kind of mentioned that formula that Harry presented and a lot of people agree on this, but like, do you think an average dog somehow can become a world champion? Yeah, I think we've seen that before too. And, um, it was just, it was like, because other dogs, um, that were much better. Just something happened. Didn't have the. Yeah. Something happened at the, um, so, you know, like elimination kind of, it's like, okay, this is the winner today, but it's really the winner. But normally they don't, they, they're not able to, to actually repeat. Yes.

And not necessarily to win, but to at least stay in the top five or even in the top 10. It's kind of like the, like the one hit song that somebody makes and it just goes off the charts and that's that. Yeah. That's, um, the God, the dog with a solid genetics and great. Great genetics and great training. Um, has no problem to show the same performance again and again. Mistakes can happen, but still the overall picture is there, right? But overall picture, it's going to happen. And that's how I knew going to the finals. Like I know she can do it again. Right. And I know she can do it on Monday again and on Tuesday and on Wednesday. That's how solid she is as a dog. And that's how solid is the training. Which is we both wear our training without conflict shirts for good reason. We are proud of it, obviously. Since we are on that, like what are some of the, the key principles, ideas from our training system that got you to the top? Well, we are actually training dogs. I always do either. A friend of mine said that, Ruth, a while ago, you know, she's been into horses and she's like, you either trick them or train them. And it's the same with the dogs. And we do train dogs. We don't do tricks. We don't do tricks that are going to just hold up to this one show, to this one performance. We actually train them so they understand the task. They're very clear about it. They're happy about it to do it for us. And there is no gimmicks. There is no tricks. It's just clear. It's just clear training that makes sense for the dog. Right. So they understand the task. They are very happy to do it. This is the behavior, but this is the reason why I'm performing that behavior. Yes. And I'm very happy to do it for you over and over again. Right. People at the stadium, they saw the performance, right? They were able to see you twice because that's one of the brilliant ideas of it. brilliant ideas that FNBB came with a few years ago to where there is the World Championship and then there is the World Cup and it goes back to back. You have to show and you have to convince that you can do it consistently. So they watched that. They watched you on the stadium. What did they not see? What do they not know? What is behind the scenes? Not the stadium, but like the trip, the hassle, the people that surrounded you. Wow. Cheers and let's go. Wow. That's a big one. Wow. Wow. Where do I start? You can start with the trip, for example. Organizing the trip was… It was a nightmare. The nightmare of the nightmares. Yeah, we booked our flights. Originally, we were supposed to fly to Budapest. We've been trying to get a hold of…

I mean, we did many times talk to the agents on the phone for like three weeks trying to confirm the dogs, one dog, one was alright. And they were saying yes, they were saying no, but three weeks we're not getting any confirmation. And I think it's two weeks left or we can have left to go. And nothing is happening. We don't know if one dog can go. And so finally, we totally changed our ticket. We canceled part of our trip. So we're just going to fly Miami to… That was Lufthansa. Yeah. But before we even did that, we actually started to gamble on other airlines. Yes, yes, I forgot about that. We purchased tickets of KLM. We actually purchased a ticket with KLM. But they couldn't confirm our tickets. The dogs, apparently the crate was too big. So that just went down. We lost the money. Yeah, we lost the money. We lost the money. We couldn't change for any other, you know, dates, trips, whatever. So we just lost this ticket, lost the money. Absolutely. And we were like, okay, so now since they cannot confirm the dog going back home, let's just do the, you know, let's just fly to Frankfurt, Miami Frankfurt. And from there, we're just going to rent a car. And we're just going to go. That was… Marcus gave us that idea. Yes, Marcus Noitz. Marcus Noitz and Maria. Yeah. They were still here doing workshops. And so we went out. And it's like, well, we'll just then come to Frankfurt, get a car. And we make the tour. We come to Stuttgart. We do some training. Enrico's there. Marcus is there. Maria's there. They provided… Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Excellent. Like everything we can dream of for preparation. Training opportunities. They hosted us. We stayed with them. It was… On the way from there, we stopped and did two days with Yanni Boma as well. Yes. And Yanni the same way. People pulled the same thing. Absolutely. A stadium. I mean, top of the top training with all of them. Yeah. Those are the people that have a huge, huge contribution to this success. Very true. I never mentioned anything because it's almost like I've… I mean, everybody knew we're training with Yanni, you know, like we have all these people around, like everybody knew. I just… In my head, it's always like I will speak when I have something to say. Yeah. You know, like I just… I really want to accomplish something worth to talk about and acknowledge people that they contribute huge amount of time and skills into… Yeah. All of them gave their hearts on it. Yes. Yeah. And there are a few more people that we mentioned. And the cool thing about them, all of those people is that it's not a…

It's not somebody that we have to go and say, well, this is what we need, this… No, we train with these people for years. Yes. It's just another training session that everybody knows what their job is and what the… What are we doing? Objective and goal. And what… Yeah. However, we had another big home with the rental car. Yes. Yes. We couldn't rent from Frankfurt to go to… Yes. And then, you know, maybe companies wanted to rent the car going to Romania. So, Marco was… That he had some local rental company that, you know, he went… Because we were at the point that we probably cannot even make the… Get to the competition. Yes. Because it started to really go downhill. Yeah. There was always some breaks. Just as we think that we got it resolved and boom. Yeah. I mean, remember also going back to the airlines. We are going to Miami. Oh my gosh. Yes. Because it's the only place that we can fly from. Everything's supposed to be fine. We go to the counter. Happy to fly out. And… Guess what? Only one dog is confirmed. It was my dog, but it wouldn't matter. And then the other dog was put as a service dog. But not confirmed. But not even confirmed. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, well like… Okay. And… And now the lady is spending an hour or more… She really spent an hour on the phone. Trying to confirm our dog. And we see there is another dog on our flight. So, we're just like, okay, if there is one more dog showing up, we're not even flying. You know, that's… That's it. So… I walked away. I was going to lose my mind. And they probably would arrest me at the airport. I had to walk away. Yeah. So, Marcos pulls whatever he did. He rents a car from Stuttgart. Comes to Frankfurt. Picks us up. He's supposed to be working, but somehow he makes it work. Yeah. And we come to Stuttgart. Oh, and not mentioning that Glinda is in heat. Yes. And she came in heat a day before we are flying. So, we are calculating. What day she's going to be. While my dog Tarzan. Now, something as a side note that is quite important. They already have breath. She's not just in heat. She knows what's up. And so does Tarzan. As I said, we already did a very, very cool breathing. And… With every day, things got crazier and crazier. We thought we had a solution. We thought we're going to rent a second car, which we did. Yes. Once we went to Romania. Oh, man. That was… But Tarzan had it extremely hard. Yes. He would see me. Me. Without the dog. And he would just lose his mind. I mean, we would go training, tracking. And everything goes well. All the tracks goes well. The moment I'm showing up at the tracking, this is done. He's done. Like he cannot track. He cannot track. He's trying.

He's like, okay, take two steps. And then it's like… Yeah, he's absolutely stuck with on me. And I'm like, okay, I'll just leave. I go away. I'm like two, three hundreds away. He's looking at me, following me and staring at me. And he's just like, I'm not tracking. So I'm like, probably four, five. No, there was two, three less days before the competition. I wasn't even coming for tracking. I was staying away. Hundreds of meters because I just could not show up even at tracking field. Like he… Yeah, it's kind of like I have to give him some credit for… It was hard for him. It was just not possible. I mean, it was at the point that most of the people that are with us, they're like really questioning what are we doing. And then I start to say… Well… I need to pull because this just does not make sense. And it's not fair for him to go through this. And… It was Markus. Markus was… Yeah. No, you're not pulling. And I'm like, I've never in my life pulled. Like even if the dog is injured something, the judge can say, yeah, you have to stop. But I have never ever pulled. This was by far the only time that I really thought it does not… It's just not the right thing to do. I know you meant it. Yeah. Yeah, even at night time, I mean, they're, you know, they're separate. But they know. I mean, we still like… Natalia has to go in the morning to the right and I go to the left. Didn't make any difference. No. He did not want to go to the bathroom. He's like just pulling to the right. I get him off the car and he is with his eyes and kind of… He has not slept. Like you can tell he is mentally and physically just worn out coming in the morning out of the car. It was wild. I mean, she wasn't a standing hit during the competition. So… It was wild. Yes. But everybody really cuts off for this kind of how it is with competitions and training and friendships and, you know, not always, you know, we were joking because driving from Stuttgart to Romania, it took us… Well, we stopped it in Czech Republic with train with Jan and whatever, but still took us a long time to get to Romania. And then we have this white cargo van sprinter. And it's me, Natalia and Enrico. It's a three seats. Natalia is sitting like a little shrimp in between us. We are both kind of, you know, 6'180 plus tall. We cannot sit even if we cannot sit in the middle. So she had to be there. But we are in this van with the German license plate. We have cargo, three people, 2 a.m. coming at the border in Romania. We were joking before we started the trip that we may have problems at the border. The moment they saw us, it's like, no question, you are pulling over.

So I show my Bulgarian ID. He starts to talk Bulgarian to me, which surprised the hell out of me. I mean, of course, kind of broken Bulgarian, but for sure I understand what he's talking to me and I cannot switch now. Then he asked me for my driving license because I only have my Bulgarian ID. The actual driving license is American. I have international one. I give him the international one. He's like, what is this? He's just never seen anything. So I give him the American. Now he's even more weirded out. Kind of starts collecting all these cards. Then he asks Natalia. Natalia gives another one. Now she's debating should she give the Bulgarian or the Polish or the American. So she pulls the Polish. The Polish, right? Yes. And Rico gives the German. Now the guy is just like playing with cards with all these ideas at 2 a.m. He's like, what's going on? What's in the back of the van? Open the van. I'm like, these dogs. Dogs. Like dogs? Open the van. And then he went somewhere. Then he came back. He saw the dogs. And he's just kind of okay. Just go. Just get like all the things like go. But it was very funny because this also could have went sideways. Yeah. And it's a rental. Rental and you know, who knows. But he just didn't know what to do with us. It was so funny. It's like, okay, just take this go. Good trip or whatever he said. Then the guys in Romania when we rented the car. Pretty cool guys. Yes. Very cool guys. Yes. Very easy. Yeah. One thing that went smooth is to rent another car. And even when we returned it, it's like we asked him, well, what about like, how do you want the car back? Whatever. And it's like, I mean, you either clean it or we have to clean it and we charge you. And thank God Natalia is asking, well, how much would you charge? And he said, 14, 17 euros. And I'm like, sure. And she's like, one seven, right? I'm hearing this right. 17 euros. Yes. You're definitely cleaning the car. I'm not cleaning the car. Yes. Yes. I think for Tarzan also was kind of strange because he's never really, when you think about it, driving in the cargo van, there is no windows. It's just pitch dark. So, you know, I don't know what it is when they fly on the plane under the cabin, but that also I'm sure on top of being next to Glinda all the time and being in this dark van. It was a, mentally. And just opening and entering different countries. Hey, you're in Germany. Hey, you're in Czech. Hey, you're in Romania. I mean, this is crazy. Let's get back to the competition. I know. I know. And you know that because you, you, a lot of times other trainers and friends compliment you on, on your skill of keeping your cool.

And you know, during competition. Like almost no matter what happens before you enter, but once you're on the field, you, you, it's flawless as far as handling comes. What was inside you? How, how do you handle? Were you nervous? What was it? Well, I'm, I'm, I'm nervous, but I'm not nervous in a way that this paralyzed me. I'm getting like butterflies. I'm excited. You know, like that's before. Like what goes through your head before you go on the field? Like how, what's the mental game? I mean, can, can we replicate it? Can other people be like you? Or is that something? Somehow everything just goes into a one thing that I need to show. I need to show. I, I, I think every step of my routine, what I'm doing, I am not just walking through the routine. I'm actually walking in, in the routine. So everything is calculated like you're, you're in every moment. Yes, I am. Do you, do you ever think something like, don't you screw this Natalia? No, no, I, I just, I, it's the opposite. It's just, I, I, it's almost like my body right now, um, just know what to do. Like it goes from one second to another to like, okay, it's a show time. And now it's all on you. It's all on you. Mm-hmm. And everything else shuts off. And I just go. It took me a while. It's, it's, um, but for the last, I would say four or five years, six years, maybe a little more. That's been a case. Yeah. Now, I think it happened like once I reached the world level. Because it's pretty impressive. I mean, we, we always like, I mean, with our close friends, of course, but we always joke about how you're just this cold blooded killer. You go on the field and you just boom, boom, boom. And it's like, like nerves of steel. At least that's how it looks like. Yeah. I, I get more like emotional and nervous and like kind of shaky in training. Just making sure that things, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm really like tense in training because I want things to go right. And I, you know, but then when it comes to competition, it's like, okay, like I've done my job. Now it's just, I have to show. So it's, it comes, I don't want to say like easy, but it comes like, okay, this is, I can take a breath and okay, let's just do it. But then we're the same. Because I know I do have the training and I know we're well prepared and it's a show time. Yeah. I, I don't get nervous then. And then there is really cool kind of relief as soon as it's over, as soon as you hear the points and, and like something just drops and you get like in a very different state of mind. That's, that's where you get very emotional when you're happy with how.

Yes, because I, I don't know if you get happy or you get surprised or, or what, but there is something that you're like super excited. And it's like you, you get people around you, even people that don't know you to kind of join you tearing up, you know? I'm real. Yeah. Because it's, um, you know, when we start, like probably the world could just go down around me and I just don't hear anything. I don't see anything. And I'm like totally in that zone. And I am very critical. I even see on the field. I mean, I, how many times I said, I thought it looked worse. Yeah. You know, like then, then I watched my videos. I'm like, Oh, it actually didn't look that bad. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I'm even like able to, as I'm going to, to, to drive my dog in a way that to fix in a moment, things that I think that needs to be fixed. I'm that aware of every step of my routine. And after the fact, after everything is done, I'm still sitting with it, what happened. And I know already what almost what the judge is going to say, because I see that on the field. Yeah. Like, I'm not surprised when they're going to say, you know, something about my exercises. I'm not gonna, I'm just because I'm so critical about myself. Like, I would give myself less points than anybody else out there, you know? So, so that's why I get like, almost like a surprise, you know, in a, in a good way that I'm like, wow, like, really, that's what we showed. And it's, it's not that, you know, like, it just happened one time that I got an excellent in obedience. It's been happening. So. So, you know, you know, how I said that, um, um, we, we won world championships at the same age, you know, but, uh, I'm curious to hear your take on what is different today from when I became world champion. Like, you know, is the competition stronger? Is the judging, is the, uh, um, the training change? Like there is, you know, it's, it's different times. That's for sure. So how do you see the progression and the movement of the sport and, and. And I think. That back then. We were actually doing the right thing. Judging. Um, The training, as I started and you want like the training already looked pretty nice. And I think the judges were actually judging the right things. Like the quality of the dog, solid training. Um, then some. It was less, less game max. Yes. That's what I, that's what I was going like.

Like later on, somehow we started kind of derailing from what is the, the, the IGP. What is the core of IGP? What we're looking for. And we started making it more as a circus. Um, and it was a chaos and, and nobody knew what to do. Nobody. I don't know. I believe like nobody knew what kind of dog we're looking for. What kind of training. It was a bit of. Yeah. Just chaos. Yeah. And I think this year. I mean, it started last year too. I think we're getting back to what the IGP shoots going used to be and how we used to look at this. Yeah. I think we're trying to bring back the reality and the purpose of why we're doing this. Exactly. Exactly. So, so it's, it's, it's, it was very nice to see. I mean, the top 20 was solid, was really solid top 20 this year. Like absolutely. There was many, many dogs, good dogs, good training. Like it wasn't, you know, like one dog standing out and okay. The rest is just trying, trying to do things. Like it was a solid top 20, you know? And, and, and I was, I, I see the difference coming up. How, like, you know, how they used to judge and, and what kind of dogs used to win and, and what was happening before. So I think we're finally getting back on the right track. What the Schutzhund used to be. Yeah. As a selection for the breeding, seeing the best dogs, the best training. And it's, it's, it was about time because. Yeah. Malinois also breed got a little bit lost. For quite a bit. And, um, we just started not having good dogs, you know, when, when, yeah, I don't know. That's true. The Malinois just kind of boomed extremely fast and it ended up a lot of. Not so stable dogs, you know? Yes. Yes. I think. Yeah, that's, that's, that's the thing. The dogs that. Sure, they can. Cheers. I think Maria is not gonna. She's, she's gonna be concerned. Maybe you don't like the champagne. No need to be concerned. Um. Yes. What was very concerning. What, what got me into Malinois and, and, um. Yeah. Besides being so. You know, agile, like. Crazy drives and, and all that, like. I've met dog, dogs before that were normal dogs on the outside the field. What happened later. Sure. We had all these dogs with crazy drive speed and, and, but nervous, as you said, very nervous. They could, they could barely exist outside the field. They couldn't be in the crate. They would be spinning and hurting themselves. You couldn't take them out in town. They, you couldn't have them around people because they would bite out of nowhere for no reason. That's, that's not normal. Yeah. It's. But I believe it's come. Yes. I believe it's coming back. Yeah, definitely. It's coming back.

Simply because people start to recognize that, that there is a problem. Yes. And that was similar with the competition. You can have an excellent dog. As far as the working qualities that can be absolutely amazing dogs outside the field. Yeah. Live with you in the house, be around kids, be around other animals. Yeah. True. There was this excuse of like kind of everybody accepted a weird excuse that, well, it's a mullin. Now what do you expect? Of course, it's a little twitching, a little whatever. No. And that's not what a good mullin really is. Exactly. It never was. Yes. I absolutely agree. Here's an interesting one. Every, this every championship that happens across the board, there is always many people in the end, will be, well, if this didn't happen, or if this happened, or if the weather was, or if that judge, or if. The ifs. Like the what ifs always come at the end as a, I guess it's for different reasons. And I want to go to that a little bit, but first, what I want to ask is, what were your what ifs? Because, for sure, everybody has. On this competition or before? Yes. This competition, for sure. Well, okay. We start with tracking. What if, oh, we start, what if she wouldn't be in heat? Right. I could make this as an excuse, right? Right. Because a lot of people blaming, oh, no, because it's female in heat. Yeah, that's a top excuse. Oh, that's top, exactly. So I could, this could be my, my number one excuse, right? Yeah. She was in heat, standing heat during the competition. So I could start there, then tracking. What if she didn't? Made that corner, that first corner. What if she made that corner nicely? Yeah. We probably, this is where I lost most of my points on that one corner. I know the judges were like, the moment she start tracking, they're like, we're going to see something really, really beautiful. Yeah. He said, it's like, we have a hundred point dog. And then she got a bit lost. Then she stumbled on that corner. Yes. Yes. Which a lot of dogs had different problems. Some with the article, some with the corner, some with, and, and yeah, it's a preparation. So this would be my first if. But that's a big if. Right? Because you ended up with 91 points because of that corner. Yeah. And that's nine points to chase later on. This is huge. Yeah. I, I was very sad. I was very sad. I was very sad. I was 91, but I have to admit that was, I was not. But it's the roller coaster. It's up and down watching her. I was just trying to problem solve. Yeah. Yeah. But then there is that moment. Can she even do it? Yes. I had that. So then there is that relief of, okay, we're back in the game. Yes. Yes. She, she's searched.

She was really like, I know she, she's not the dog. She's very steady. Yes. When she, so she handles things in a good way. So that's for sure. And she would never quit. Like, like I know, like, it's like she was search and search and search. But she's not a quitter. And she's been searching and searching. And there was this moment that she turned head towards me. And this is in my mind, it's just cross. I'm like, man, I was like, she's going to quit. But somehow she just right back. But yeah, that was the first time ever. I thought she's going to quit the track, but she didn't. So that was, that was, that was that moment in the competition that maybe it can be just over right now. Yes. Right. Yes. And, and I was just standing there and I was completely fine with it. You know, I'm like, yeah, it might happen right now. It has happened to me. Oh, with, with Django when I was competing with Django. It was a, I don't remember like this. Like, I don't remember a lot of the stuff. Like people tell me what I've done and whatever. And I get always, I, and NVM that, that, that they remember my performances and I don't. But it was Switzerland. And I don't know was a, again, I don't know which year. First day, first team tracking failed. Just like that. Game over. And you have to somehow accept it. Yeah. And he was a, off the charts exception. He had, I mean, besides like national events and whatever, he had two times 100 points in tracking at the world championships different. So like he was a, you know, that was one of his things. And to be there and to have this, just, just seeing it, how it's going sideways. It's a, it's rough. So I, I know how you felt and how this can cross your mind. But then I also, there is that, we're back in the game, whatever happens, but we're still in the game. And then she went like, yeah, she does. Yes. Yes. So that was a big what if. Yes. That was a big what if. Next obedience. Yeah. Yeah. What if she wouldn't bump me on the recall. Oof. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's when, uh, Edgar was saying that it would have been 99. Yes. Yes. I, I, I, and she, I, I never remember her doing it one time. No, she never. Never. Sometimes cause she's super fast, maybe slightly. I mean, so slightly that you and I know, but like you would not know, but to come and actually bump you. Yeah. That was a surprise. The heck out of me. And I bet she was surprised probably too. Or no. I moved because I was like, oh my gosh, what just happened? Like that just never happened. So. Yeah. So that was the obedience. And protection. Yeah.

I mean, the, the, what if she would get the, that, uh, escape bite. Right. So do you think champions are one most of the time besides that one hit wonder, because you, you kind of get lucky or because you're able to survive and grind through the problems that are presented or is it that some kind of combination? Like the one time winners? No. Like if we, if we leave them aside for the rest of the champions, how much is luck and how much is just the ability to grind through the problems and, and continue to stay on the track. Yes. On the track. That's a big thing. Like, at least for me, that's a big thing. Like, no matter, like, you know, me, like I, I don't care. And I don't check the scores and I don't want to know. It does not matter to me. We got to play that video. We got to add that video at the end when you're asking. Yes. Enrico. I, so what, what's my place? Yes. I had no clue because I don't follow. I don't check the scores. Sometimes I don't even know who is in the competition. Maybe that's your kind of mind game that that's probably one reason why you are able to stay so cool. I mean, how many times I don't even know who's in the competition. Right. I don't know. I have no clue. I don't follow the scores. I don't want to hear how many times I would tell you, don't tell me any scores. I don't want to know. I don't need to know. I do have one goal in my, my head and just focus on me and my dog and my performance. I don't need any, any noise, you know, and I would hear here and there, but it still wouldn't disturb me. I've always been this way. And, and even, you know, like, I remember I told you at this competition, don't tell me anything. But that it's like, I don't want to hear anything. I already, because like you like to say scores, you know, and, and what, so I already said to you and I'm like, don't say anything. Don't tell me any scores. And I don't know if you didn't hear me or whatever. And you told me the scores. I know. Yes. And I'm like, okay, whatever. I'm like, you didn't mean it. You know? Well, I, yeah, I don't even know. And I just moved on, you know, and I just moved on. And I remember when I said it and then Riku is like, I blew it. So I'm like, oh, well, that just happened. It's out there, you know, and, and, but still even going to like, to the finals, to obedience or my protection, I had no clue what other people's scores were. Um, so I'm like, no, I, I was just so focused on, on what I need to do. Yeah. I did not need that. I don't need that. Why, why do you think competitors kind of somehow, you know, I don't need that.

I mean, I just kind of just kind of just kind of just kind of just kind of just kind of in their heads and then I mean I do too I don't know if you do but like the the things that didn't go well always kind of override the things that went well like you you know like you're never I mean not you but I don't know again I want to hear from you but most people are when when they start talking about the competition it's so it's especially when things didn't go well or not as well as they were expecting it to go it's always the the things that didn't go well versus the many things that actually went really good even surprisingly good why do you think this is like we with humans think this way I think it's a it's yeah it's a common thing that a lot of people focus on the on the bad things you know and why I mean I would have to be in everyone's it's kind of in a way like excuses but not even excuses for the crowd but like you getting some comfort of like okay well I have an excuse or something I don't I don't know but you never go like oh I made the best dumbbells ever I had instead you're like my dog didn't do the send out well I I changed that you know I changed I think I used to be also focusing on the on the the bad stuff and and forgetting what's what's actually went well to really be very like honest what I'm seeing without any any any emotions to you know this is really bad and focus on this forget about what's good I just break my routines as it is yeah and I'm seeing the like the good and the bad and then okay like I leave the good and make sure that I maintain it and then what can I improve if there's something not going well what can be improved how can we improve it so it's better for the next one but it's it's just without emotions it's just like clear like okay because this is a training problem what what do we need to do to make it better and the good stuff just maintain it you know so yeah yeah I mean I I it's changed now now I really stuck gotta see the good things gotta see the good things there is a lot of good things and and and um and the thing is like when when um when I used to focus just yeah when I used to just see with my previous dogs when I just used to see the problems um and that's something I've heard long time ago from Marcus also that when you have a problem then you start focusing on the problem and it's actually the problem become becoming bigger you know if you're just focusing on that one thing instead of like hey you have good stuff and how this we can make better you know and and can we

yeah we know how the brain works and make these stories right yes so that was another golden nugget that was just like yeah and and I I've seen it myself I've done it myself you know the more I focus on the problem the problem becoming sometimes bigger than it was so yeah just balance things out very cool you know I'm looking at all these bips and numbers and stuff and um yeah what is the one we have to I'll show you right now we have to make like we have so many more like we have probably three times more than this right now this was when the time now now now at the competitions the organizers somehow became aware that that be it's almost more important than what's in your scorebook I don't know I mean for me always was to the point that I would steal it but how do you steal it because it's like it has a number so you know which number is missing so it's like okay my bad but I'm not giving it back just tell me how much and there will be well and and I will just give some money um and then one of the nights we ended up watching in Stuttgart uh yeah 2000 uh FMBB that was in Hamburg that's when we sent this uh still pictures to Bert yes we got him also Bert Hartz in the man we were so young right yes I'm like Bert remember how we were preparing Django in the parking lot yes right before because he hasn't ever had any bite work since I'm there and Marcos is like yeah those were the times that things were happening in the parking lot but yeah but yeah this this this one 74 oh this one yeah that was that number oh yeah yeah yeah I see and the one that yellow one 1705 which I have no idea how that made sense at the time it's 95 but this is early 90s that was my first one in Finland swami Finland yes yeah they all have stories they all have stories and so and so is this one bg02 fmb Romania crazy and so are the you know before I go to the banners of the competitions because well since I'm here I'm gonna just say it but every both times that I won the world championships I the the one in France led to care I I I asked them if I can get the banner and they're like no no it's it's you know and and I asked the right people and I'm like I will pay you money whatever and it wasn't happening and somehow I convinced myself and yeah I went in the stadium and I cut it off and I brought it home and it's very cool to have it just as the bips like those I I like those things way more than the bunch of trophies that we have around no it's very somehow then when I did it in Italy in Torino when I won the world championship the FCI

then I'm like I there is no way I'm not taking that banner now that I have this one and I would do it only I mean it's not like every band like there had to be a good reason and good reason is you either win the world championship and take the banner no matter what so I went to the organizers and I kind of explained the background story and they're like okay yeah you can you can take it now you win and Mark Soccoccio because you know everybody that's been in our training building knows the tradition is coming to me it's like what are we doing with the banner I'm like shit yes and he's like I have a knife I'm like hold on hold on let's let's talk about it and you gotta give it to the organizers man the like the Romanian championship this year was one of the best organized like and and and they always looked for what they can do better and yes you know like the year before it was apparently awful I wasn't there but I I was to hear only no not good stories about that championship and Attila and and everybody on that team that put this together and of course all the Hungarians because it was so close to Hungary so that collective work and what they did like really hats off to to the to them for that competition it was absolutely top like uh so anyway I I went and I'm trying to talk to him and he's DJing and I'm trying to tell him that I need that better and and it's not working out so finally I'm like okay I'm gonna type something so you should chat GPT and translate and he's like of course I'm like thank you we got the banner we go out me and Mark go out to get the banner Mark does not know that we have permission he thinks we're going all gangster style we're gonna just no matter what we're taking if we need to fight with everybody it's like we're taking that down I'm like no dude we we got permission oh cool then the people I guess they're starting already to prepare to clean up and prepare for some football game that they have so they don't want to let us in I'm like dude you just want to get that banner and we're out after a bunch of you know back and forth the letters Mark starts to cut the zip tie and next thing you know he goes low to cut the bottom one and just slices his leg and he's like what a sacrifice and he shows me his leg it's like dude I'm bleeding I cut myself and by the time I look at his leg he is not bleeding his running shoe is full with blood I mean it's freaky like like freaky I'm like okay Mark let's just get this thing and and let's go to doctor he's like no we are cool we actually have pictures videos we should we should put this on on the podcast

because I mean we're already celebrating we're kind of not really drunk but we're feeling very excited and good and it's like oh it's not a problem and he's like it's not a problem and I'm trying to tie his leg like I'm in the army in some war middle of a war thing and I cannot stop the blood and we're like and then Stefan and I mean everybody is like I mean he's uh uh what's her name is uh girl Marks she's uh ER whatever yes right it's like dude you gotta go she's like no it's all good guys relax like blood like this blood this we're not talking drops from band-aids you know it's like no Esther go get the first aid kit what you have two pieces of ghost and bunch of bed it's like this is not what we need that was crazy too that was really really crazy but now we have another banner yes yes now we have another banner you know what is interesting like another banner you know what is interesting like I mean I know what we just been talking about like all the what goes around not winning but just being part of this kind of level of competition and stay competitive and the sacrifices and the amounts of of hours of training and the trips and and everything and understanding training and and then you have the internet keyboard warriors that's like oh you you have no idea about positive reinforcement um um and then you start arguing with with somebody on the internet for no reason really like there is no even a picture of them you don't know even who that is with 100 friends and not one training that you can kind of and it is it is very crazy and um i guess what i want to ask you is should accomplishment matter if somebody's teaching other people how to train dogs of course or do we just use fancy words and say what science says and and and never really you know i think it's that applies not only to a dog training that applies in life in general i mean if you want to accomplish something uh look for people that actually accomplish the same thing and look for people that are the best in their field and yeah it's just it's a shortcut you know it's really a social media really kind of gave opportunity to people that can never ever accomplish much to have that forefront that i know listen to me follow me i will show you but i think i think i think that's changing i think uh um you know i mean top competitors police

like like any any serious dog trainer including pet trainers i mean and anybody that actually does the work is really starting to wake up and it's fed up with with the nonsense and and more and more i like when somebody says very simply show me yes just show me exactly stop stop this like just show me you know i mean it's frustrating such a simple i don't understand it's such a simple formula yeah like if i okay if i want if i have my goal and my goal is to go to go to world championships and be a world champion i'm looking for people that's done it because they know how to do it they've done it that's that's so simple why don't we just follow this simple formula i think people also ended up kind of being lazy lazy lazy lazy in terms of just listening to somebody bullshitting them it's like with with nice language and but never really show the work and accomplishments matter it does not credentials like accomplishments are probably the most important part in your credentials and if you cannot show that but you have to make up stories like just anecdotal stories yeah but eventually people will catch this that you're just starting and i'm i'm very happy that this is really starting to happen i mean for for me from the beginning was so clear and i don't even know nobody told me anything you know nobody nobody suggested anything it was just like okay i so i think that's my goal i want to be a world champion and okay clearly i have to be around people they've done it otherwise like how you can show me something that you've never done so yeah and it's laughable when you have You have, again, one of those internet warriors that hasn't done shit. He has 100 followers. There is no picture of that person. And they're arguing with you that you don't know anything about positive reinforcement. I mean, yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I don't even, like, I don't even bother, you know, it's a waste of my time. Let me ask something interesting. If someone was to tell you, let's say you're 15 years old or something, before even you had that bug about dog training. If somebody was to tell you that what happened that past weekend, that you're going to become a world champion, what would you have said to that? How would you have reacted? You know, you had that some old gypsy lady fortune teller just looks at your palm and just throws it out there. I would be curious. It would get my attention, definitely. And it's probably because of my personality. Yeah. That would definitely make me think. Now I have one last question, I think.

And we wrap it up. It's kind of a difficult one. You ready? Mm-hmm. So now that you are also world champion, who's going to do the dishes at home? A dishwasher. What are we going to do? A dishwasher. Congratulations again. Super proud of you. Thank you. Well, it's, it's, you're a huge part of it. So. All right, people. Hopefully you enjoyed the conversation. And as far as what happens next, that's all we know. We train dogs. And we love it. And yes, we do other things, but ultimately we always come back to dogs. It's our life. So. We'll see you again next time. Guys, we're back. We just don't have enough. I missed something important. You know how I was talking about the, that that competition, that championship was the most dramatic one that I have ever seen. And after we thought that we are finishing the podcast and we had some more champagne, I decided to bring this back because we, we really never told you that story. Um, and, and it's worth mentioning because really it was the most dramatic thing that I have witnessed. And this one with the nerves of steel made some incredible stuff. So let me tell you what happened. She was from the world cup. She was nine points, no, seven points behind. Something. Yeah. Which is a lot of points. So going to the finals, there is a lot to chase, a lot to happen. Um, but there was that consistency of the work that she showed that it's unarguably high, high end quality work. What happened? She had to go last because Glinda's still in heat. And the, the, the vets, they, they kind of tried to see, well, maybe, maybe we can fit her into the group and not be the last dog to save time and so on. And the, the, the doctors came, swapped her and it's like, no, no, she's, she's definitely still in heat. So she has to go last. So she goes, she makes super obedient. She gets two 96s from two of the judges and two 93 from two of the other judges, which is quite normal when you have so many judges, super score, the highest score for the finals. And this is when the finals become very interesting because. that's when the quality of the dog, the genetics of the dog and the training, it's the demonstration of, can you hold up under the pressure and can you perform the same way or better? Or are you going to crumble? That's why, uh, uh, I say that the FMBB really has this down.

It's one of the most special things about competition to be able to do it twice. So there is not a fluke. So after she makes the obedience and considering the rest of the competition, now we know the chicken make 92 points in protection and she's still going to be a world champion. And 92 points out of the hundred points in protection for this too. It's like you, you really need to do. You purposefully need to do something to mess up, not to get 92 points. So that build a lot of. Interesting pressure on everybody. And the, the, the, the, the weather forecast. It was brutal. Like after two o'clock, when you look on the ups on the weather channels, it was not rain. It was like pouring rain. So the supervisor judge approaches Natalia after obedience and says, I know you by rule, you have one hour between protection to rest. And then you do protection between obedience and protection. Sorry. Yeah. But because one of the judges that was supposed to be in the judging panel for protection had to lift sooner for whatever reason, which shouldn't happen in a world championship. But that was the case. So they approached her and they're like, well, would you be okay if instead of an hour, we do 45 minutes? I was there with her. She just looks at me. I know that her, she's like, yeah, that's no problem. It would have been a problem even half an hour. We know what you can do. The rain was not yet there. So shortly after, again, the supervisor judge comes and it's like, well, actually Edgar was walking by us and with his suitcases and stuff. I mean, it's like, I have to go and whatever else he said. I'm like, okay, that's a little strange. Not a little, but let's say a little strange. And then Natalia is like, well, I can use my whole hour then. Why would I not use my whole hour? I was trying to do a favor for everybody so we can wrap it up and, you know, but I would rather, of course, use my full hour. So we say, yeah, we take our hour between obedience and protection. We take the hour. And. You see this dark crowd out just coming in. And a little drizzle. And we're thinking, okay, we have like, we're really like watching time. Sitting by the van. It's like, okay, we have. It's still okay. It's still okay. It's still okay.

Kaboom. I mean, we just went bananas. I mean, pouring down buckets. They come and tell us, well, we got to wait a little bit. Nothing we can do. We wait. And we wait. And we wait. And people that have been, that paid for the streaming, they're kind of like, what's going on? We are like, okay, what actually can happen? Because you're looking at the weather channel apps and there is no break. I mean, that storm is going through the night. I'm like, what, what, what, what really can happen? So she's parked the car in one place where the competitor parking is. Now, at that point, I'm like, I switched for my uniform to full rain gear. Like what we do in Florida boots and like really full rain gear. We had to move her car because there was like this much water, just standing water in the parking lot. We moved the car. I couldn't put my dog back, back in the car. Because I took her out because I thought I'm going. And then 10 minutes of waiting and I'm like, okay, I'll just like, it's not, nothing's going to be quiet here. So I put her, I couldn't, I can't put her because there's so much water at the back. I have to move my car, holding my dog and moving my car. But somehow very calm. So she's sitting in the car. Mia and Rico and the rest of the Bulgarian team, we just don't know. I mean, like, it's just so weird. Don't know what to do. Finally, there is a little break in the weather. They're like, let's go. So everybody goes on the stands, everybody's set up. They announce her that she's coming on the field. She is actually coming on the field. And kaboom. Another, and this time now it's lightning and thunder and I mean, it's becoming very serious where you're like, okay. So of course, the supervisor is like, no, that cannot go. We stop, we wait. So she goes back in the car. That was insane. I've never ever witnessed something like this. And we're waiting and waiting and waiting. And did you come one more time or there was a maybe? No, you didn't know. No, no, no. You didn't know. I was just waiting in the car. You didn't know because they told me and I was about to come and then they kind of caught me and said, no, no, we still not going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So finally she goes after, I don't know. I mean, I don't even know because time kind of didn't matter anymore. And when you watch and we will add some of the clips of the protection, you will see the standing water on the field. And hats off to the helpers. Absolutely. Absolutely. Being able to do what they're supposed to do with a dog level of Glinda. Because she don't care if it's raining or, I mean, the earth can start to spin the other way.

It doesn't matter to her. But it becomes a matter of safety for the helpers, for the dog, for everybody. Yes, for everybody. Yeah. And they did an amazing job of showing and putting the pressure. Like it was just amazing what the two guys did. Eventually, she makes the routine. It goes the blinds, perfect, barking, escape by through the water, like just insanely cool pictures we have, which is, you know, that would have been a very cool what if. You know, what if there was no rain? What if we had the same conditions as everybody else? Not this time. However, they pulled through. And with every bite, it just goes exactly how it goes all the time. There is no surprises. People start to come to me on the stands, wanting to shake my hands. I'm like, no. Like, absolutely no. Like, I've been in this port for so long that I have seen so many things happen. Until she puts that leash on the dog. It's not over. And finally, she clips the leash and we all go bananas. Besides me, because I had no clue I won. Yeah, we didn't want to tell you what you needed because you said not to talk to you. Yeah, I had no clue. But we all of us are like, man, this is ridiculous. Like something has to go really wrong. Not that it's not possible. Of course, it can happen. But at the same time, it's like, that's more than easy. And the next thing you know, Natalia and Glinda, FMBB 2026 World Champions. Congratulations. Thank you. Well deserved. That's that. Shoo! This is Natalia Palavaro. Our Thank you.