Training Without Conflict® 팟캐스트 에피소드 32: Dean Calderon

And I've told this to people. You know, back in the old days, Ivan, people fought us about going to the World Championship. Should USA have any kind of funding for the team? And I'm like, dude, do you want to stay isolated on this continent? That's what you want to do? That is your glory, Topeka, Kansas? Give me a break. Come on. Don't you have any goals? Don't you have any aspirations? I mean, come on. And this is what IGP will bring you, okay? First of all, there's a world of great trainers out there. And by having that goal of trying to strive to a World Championship, you meet people. You meet great trainers. You meet good things in your life. Don't stay isolated upon this continent, okay? And plus, our sport encompasses three things, not just one, not just this. And there's so much more than meets the eye on our sport, too. People really need to understand the why fours about our sport. And more than that, more than that, 40 years from now, good dogs ain't going to come from whatever initials you want to put on back of that dog's name. Good dogs will come from IGP dogs of today. That's where they'll come from. I'm sorry. Ask me something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is, man. People really, people, you know, they really, again, I want you to have fun with our, and our sport is hard. It's a hard sport. It's fucking the hardest sport ever. You know, you gotta, you take it on the chin. You know, I go out there and I see the new handlers, and bless these guys' heart. They just, you just get, take it on the chin, you know? It's a tough sport. But you ask me something. I'll shut up. No, no. You're the one that needs to talk. But it's definitely the hardest sport. Yes, it is. I cannot, like. That's another beautiful thing about our sport. Maybe the most beautiful thing is our sport is competitive. And anything in human nature you're competitive at, you get better at. World records are broken every day. Okay? I've been training dogs. I'm an old man forever. Dog training has gotten so much better. The dogs have gotten so much better. Okay? And really, our sport, because of the multi-aspects, it's three things. It's really the cutting edge of all of this. It's all of this, you know? It's, you know, I don't watch like I used to. I don't watch like I used to. But it's really important that the judges, you know, the judges set the standard of what is to be done on the field. Okay? And they must maintain this idea of the performance obedience. The obedience must be exact, but the dog must be happy. He must be in drive. Okay? He must be. Okay? And with that, we're always going to have a good path. You know, always.

Anyway, go ahead. So, I know we, I mean, we have to go over a lot of things, but for the people, because I have an audience that kind of, I mean, I started the podcast fairly soon, and I have an audience that is from all different areas of dog training, you know? Super. So, we go, we go, you and I go very far back. Well, you wanted me to tell some old stories? You want me to tell you the story the time the dog bit me in the dick? That was a classic one. Ivan first comes to California, okay? And he wants to train his dog, because he has a Malinois. Like, in those days, nobody had a Malinois, you know? And I had, and I had worked, you know, I had seen him. I had worked with him a little bit. Anyway, so the dog came around the blind and bit me in the leg or something, okay? So, then there was a trial in Fresno. Yeah, in Fresno? Yeah. In Fresno, okay? So, we go down there, you know, and people had never seen, like, a Malinois. Really, no one had a Malinois, you know? So, the dog's running the blinds, and he's running the blinds. I'm talking to the people and said, you got to be careful about these Malinois. When they come around, they'll bite you in the leg. And sure enough, a little dog came down and nailed me right in my crotch. That was a good one. But anyway. That was an amazing story. And this was, man, this was me kind of fucking up, because, you know, I came from Belgium and I did some Belgian rings. So, it was, I was still transitioning the dog from leg bites to sleep. So, it was going sideways, and I felt so bad. Oh, my God. But that's one of the many, many cool stories we had. And I have to say how I found you, man. That was, you know, that was at the time, we're talking early 90s. There was a magazine, Doc Sports Magazine. Yeah, right. I can't remember. What was the guy's name? He was in... Mike McCowan. Yes. He was in Vallejo. Right? I mean, you know, I'm an old guy, but really, he, for instance, he started Shutton USA Magazine. He's the one that laid out that format for the magazine. He published other magazines, too. That was his business. But he laid out the format for that magazine. And because of that magazine, there was so much growth in the beginning. Oh, yeah. No question. Advertising. And that's an issue that the clubs nowadays have no idea what they're doing, how to promote our sport. My God. It just makes... I'm not... It makes me sick. Yeah. I don't know. They just walk around like, doy-oy, you know? I mean, come on. But anyway, that's... I mean, I could talk about that for a long time, okay? Why is it the number six blind sold? The rights, the number six blind, it's a national sold.

You can put your company's logo on number six blind, 500 bucks, you know, Freddy's Cleaners, Freddy's Healing Club, whatever you want to put. The hurdle is sold, too. $1,500. Your company logo there, $2,000, okay? Yeah. You know, so if I'm on this tangent, this is an old man's most beautiful dream. And God, I have this dream so bad. And actually, Johannes Graeva was the first one to put this dream in my mind. I would love so much for USA to have, like, a national headquarters somewhere. And think about it, folks. I'm not saying this because I live in Ohio, but really somewhere like Ohio or Indiana. Illinois is kind of hot. Those places, land is still cheap, okay? And you can have a mid-site city. Buy a piece of property outside of the place. Have it as USA headquarters. Have it as the most friendly dog place in America. You can rent that place out. You can have the USA office there. You can have an indoor facility. The nationals and all those events should travel around, absolutely. But every couple of years, here you got. You got the perfect facilities. All these other clubs who need a place. Less and less and less. There's less places to show your dog, okay? But, man, it's my dream for USA to have a place like this, okay? I thought it was once in a while there is that conversation. It comes up in a conversation, but it seems like it gets told. It never goes further than that. Well, our leadership has, you know, and again, I'm an asshole. But all those guys who want to do that, it's funny to me. And it's good. I like that we have leadership that wants to train dogs. That's a good thing. But maybe they're only lost in that. Maybe that's all they're saying is that team, okay? And, but anyway. Let me go back to that Dog Sports Magazine because I want to tell everybody how we met. So, I go back. I come to the States. I'm an electrician. I'm like, okay, I'm going to find a job. I start looking around. It's just very hard to find a job, especially as an electrician. The voltage is different. Everything is different. The codes. I get a job at Guide Dogs for the Blind. Oh, cool. And from there, because I was trying, as you were talking, I was trying to think how in the hell I got my hands on Dog Sports Magazine. Because I didn't, when I came, I didn't know nobody. So, it was from somebody from the Guide Dog School that handed me that magazine. The very first magazine that I got, Dean. You were on the cover. You, Duffy, and what was your girlfriend at the time? Man, you had all these cool girlfriends always. Penny was great. Yeah. You, Penny, and Duffy on the cover. Right. Each one of you holding them blind.

I wish I had this because that was a cornerstone of my evolution. And the big title on the cover was, Next Time in the Park Near You. Yeah. Because that's what you guys were doing. And I'm like, oh, wow, there's people that do it. Now, I need to find out which park are we talking about. So, what I had to do, I went to Vallejo. I had to talk to the guy. Okay. And somehow, I think, I don't know, was it Contra Costa? Was it somewhere I found you exactly like that? You guys just drove in, put up the lights, and everybody lined up, and we had an amazing time. Yeah. And I was like, okay, this is my house. It just felt perfect. But that's how far we go. So, now, I want to, like, because you, man, you've done IGP and Schutzhund with quite a few different dogs. But from where I remember, it was Rottweilers. And it was you and Wayne, Simanovic. And it was, I mean, you guys were really doing it with Rottweilers. And it was a big deal. And you were competitive with everybody. It wasn't like how it's today. You know, the breeds are, some breeds are going out, unfortunately. And that's a different conversation. But tell me about your Rottweiler time. Because that was interesting times, man. Well, anyway, I really want to first say, but believe me, my dogs are German Shepherd dogs. Okay. Before the Rottweiler time, real quick, I'm not going to go into all that. 1979, I was hot champion to USA Nationals with my German Shepherd dog, Anando. Did many great things. But with the Rottweiler deal, okay. In the 90s, it was a Rottweiler craze. Everybody had to have one. Okay. Also, too, you know, I've made all these, I've made 20 world teams with three different breeds of dogs. I've never owned any of those dogs. People give me dogs, pay me dogs, money to train dogs. Okay. That's what I do. That's what I did then. I was really one of the first persons to do, I don't know how to do anything. You know what I'm saying? If my tire, if my car has a flat tire right now, I've got to call somebody. If that toilet don't work in this house, I've got to call somebody. I don't know how to do anything. This is what I know to do. Plus, I've been very frank. Ever since I was a young guy, I don't like to be told what to do. Okay. I'm just, I'm just, I'm different that way. Okay. I don't, I don't play well with others. I don't exist in a company format. But anyway, let me get back to it. Anyway, with the Rottweilers, it was a Rottweiler craze. Okay. Dogs weren't expensive. All dogs in general weren't expensive in those days as they are now. Okay. And what happened with Rottweilers in America, for instance, okay.

One of the first Rottweiler World Championships was like 1991 or 92. I forgot. Okay. And we went there and American guy won it. A guy named, he trained in our club, South County Shutton Club. A guy named Ron Gordon. He won that thing. Okay. Okay. And the American team, I mean, they robbed us. They had to rob us to make sure those Germans won. But why did that happen? Anyway, with the Rottweilers, that Rottweiler World Championship, that first one, that was a really, that's a lot of great stories about that. Wayne was on the team. Ron Gordon, who won the Rottweiler World Championship. A woman named Sue Borgen. Really good Rottweiler. Yes, yes, yes. Man. Really good Rottweiler in protection. Twice I've been the helper at the Nationals. Only twice I was maybe taken down. And that fucking Rottweiler almost took me down on the long run. He almost took me down. But no, that was a great team. And again, the thing about Rottweilers in the 90s, you know, there was people who wanted them, who would pay money to good trainers to train them. There was an interest in that. Later on, after that, two years later, we won the Rottweiler World Championship in Austria. Okay. And we did, I had a different dog, a tremendous, I didn't own him, a very well-to-do real estate developer, owned the dog. His name was Arco, tremendous animal. I mean, you know, I've been very blessed in my life that I've, you know, trained good dogs of all breeds. And there's good dogs in every breed, okay? And I was so happy, you know, that I watched a little bit of the FCI. And there was an Airedale doing protection. Yes, two of them this time. And I only saw the long bite on one of the Airedales, and it was really nice. And let me say something before that, too. And I think the helper was very fair in giving the dog a chance to demonstrate his good, well, he's a good boy. You know what I'm saying? There was no Mickey, Shicky, stupid-ass shit, you know? And maybe the dog wasn't a rocket ship or all this other stuff, but the dog did it really nice from gripping to outing to everything, okay? And also the helper allowed the dog to do this, okay? Yes, allowed them. That's a very good point how you're saying that. Very true. You know, but anyway, back in the day with the Rottweilers, you know, it was just people, you know, they had money. And, you know, what did I do? I took, well, many of them, three of them or three or four of them to Rottweiler World Championship and all this other stuff. The best one I ever, I had, the first one I ever had was Alf Hamburger. Michael was his name. Tremendous animal. Little quick story.

I won the regionals in California with him. And in those days, Northern California, we would kick your ass. Oh, this was a place, for sure. And when I won that regionals, there was an SV judge. First, he said to me, I've never seen a, he says, how did you get that Rottweiler to work like that? I've never seen a Rottweiler do that shit. And then, Ivan, you know, two months later, just like three weeks before the Rottweiler World Championship, I was training him, and it was like perfect in training for those days. And people got to understand that context. Really good. And any sport, you always got to understand that context, okay? But the dog was mechanically correct. Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. But I could see something was wrong, okay? And I went to do a seminar, and I told Penny, go get him checked out. And Penny calls me, goes, Dean, we got bad news here. This dog's got a tumor in his leg, and he's got his leg cut off. And I'm like, what? And this is like two weeks before the World Championship with this dog. And anyway, that was maybe the best one I ever had. But in the 90s, there was a lot of good, there was on that Rottweiler team that won the Rottweiler World Championship, a really good trainer named Mitzi. I wish I remember, Mitzi, I don't remember her last name, but she was a really good dog trainer. And no, in those days, again, you know, they were, again, there was an interest there. So, you know, there was there was good Rottweilers, you know, you know, it's one of the reasons I'm an old beat up man from all those Rottweilers I worked in those days. But, you know, that's for sure. But but listen, I really want to say something to you. Like right now I have a Doberman. Okay. Yes. And I'm very happy with my Doberman and I can't wait for the future to come. I mean, I'm like just biting at the bit. But that's a Doberman number two, because you just, you know, yeah, I mean, actually, it's farther than that. But my last one, which was really good. But what I'm saying is, is, is because and I think of this too, I think it's because of the training is so good around the world, because people can learn because the internet, you know, I'm saying, and you see good training every place, really good understanding of the dogs. And consequently, that I see, I mean, I don't go nowhere, I don't see nothing, but a little bit I see, I see some good dogs, I see some good Dobermans, I see some good Mallies, you know, and of course, you see good Shepherds. Rotties, they're not so popular now. So anyway, Yeah, and and the boxers went away.

Yeah, you know, it's it's again, you never see those breeds. It's it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's hard in America with our, our sport is demanding. It's, it's a lot easier to follow, you want to enjoy your your dog, you want to do a biting sport. Okay, a lot of them maybe are a little bit easier to do than ours. And speaking of the Shepherds, you, you're national champion. Mm hmm. You've, I mean, bunch times podium bunch, like, I don't even know how many times you've been to world championships, like, we have shared, we have shared the podium quite a few times. Yes, Ivan and I tried at the Nationals one year, okay, he was first and I was second. Okay, he had his Malamon, I had my dog Rex. And it was right after 911. And it was one of the beautiful moments in my life. And as I loved my dog Rex, he was so beautiful. And he was a mean little son of a best. Also, he was really cool. He crazy little bastard. He was a cool dog. Those cathago dogs can be I'll tell you this story about Rex. I'm gonna say another story about Rex. For anyone when I got done in obedience, it was right after 911, you know, and if people got to remember what the world was like then, okay. And it was a really cold, clear night, October night in Boston, and the sun was going down, I got done with my obedience. And I coming back to the crowd, and the joy on the people's faces, the applause, not me, not about me, the happiness my dog brought to those people. My God, I was just like, man, this is the coolest thing. This is the coolest. And I remember there's a couple ladies and they were just clapping so happy, you know, I mean, that was a really cool deal. That was a really cool deal. Those were, I mean, man, there were interesting times. And I don't know why. I mean, we will never probably know why and how things change. But like, there was a, and I don't know, maybe we're just too old thinking and looking at the old times in this through a good lens always. I mean, remember how big the trial was. Remember, remember helper tryouts. I mean, this was as, as big event as the competition itself. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, you know, you know, Ivan, I know, I know a little about what you're talking about right now. And again, I don't, I'm not a hanger outer. I don't go so much now, no more. Okay. But I know back in the day, first of all, man, I can remember on a Saturday night at the nationals, the parties we would have, the parties, yes. I mean, we would party to, you know, we would party to five. I don't know what kids do nowadays. Maybe they take to get tattoos and go to sleep. I don't know. But man, you know,

the parties would go on forever, you know, and I mean, and some things have gotten better. You know, I have thoughts about helper tryouts too, you know, about that. I don't like to, let me say this about helper tryouts. They need to have ratings just for the long bite where you get a rating just for that. Okay, they give the rating away much too easy. Okay, you mean the helper itself or the helper helper, right? Yeah, you get rated as you're officially you can do the long bite. Okay. And they give those ratings away that national level rating way much too easy. It's too hard to attain. It's ridiculous. You got to have like so many dogs in your book. Guess what? If you show up the New York Yankees, you hit five home runs, they sign you to a contract. They don't give a shit about how many minor leagues you played it. There needs to be some validation. When you recognize talent, right? Exactly. There needs to be some validation before. Absolutely. Okay. But I would just like to, what I would like to see is first of all, it's harder to attain that rating. And then once you have that rating, you get a number has nothing to do with your ability. That's just your number six guy to get that rating. And then you have a rotation system. And that means your numbers going to come up in the rotation. And at that rotation, you pick four guys, and then the judge picks the two he wants. But at least you know, your name is going to be in the rotation. I've been helper twice at the nationals. It's an honor. It's an honor to be the helper. My God, I can tell you, I remember one time Gary Hanrahan's dog hit me and almost knocked my lungs out the back of my chest. Okay. It's an honor. And these guys who've worked to attain that level, they should have a chance to have this honor, but having helper trials already starts to trial out with all this. Who's this guy? Who's that guy? This guy knows this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. Stop all that. Stop it. You all this needs to be thought so many aspects in our sport about no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you understand you get that number, you get your shot, the judge don't want you that day. That's fine. You've got to work that time, but you get your shot. Go ahead. We'll talk about something else. Yes, very good one. Yeah, yeah. This is, this is how it was. I mean, and, and that's, it always, there is controversy around how to select a good helper for competition because it's so fucking important. Like we put so much time, I mean, it's everything is exactly the right way to put it. I, it really is everything because

that guy is responsible for the, for, for your dog, man, and your dog is, is your fucking dog. Yeah, I know. You know, it's, it's, um, and, and I'll tell the story. I don't care. Um, Ivan and Mark and I, we were at Mark's house a couple of years back before the AWDF and Mark's dog, Hector is a beast. He is a beast. I ain't working with that mother. Oh, I mean, what is he like 90 pounds besides that? Okay. Okay. So Mark, he's now use a San Francisco word. He's a little bit feeling snake about doing the long bite with this dog. Okay. Cause first of all, he don't want nobody to hurt him. And Mark's a lot like me. He don't want any Tom, Dick and Harry working his dog. He knows that training is just as good as any other training. The helper is just as important to that shit as you and that fucking ball. So anyway, so we're training before. Okay. And Mark doesn't do long bites with Hector because of all these things I just said. Okay. You remember this, Ivan. So a couple of days before the deal, we're training there and I forgot maybe somebody did, maybe Mark did one first himself and the dog dove under the sleeve, not because he was nervy. He needs to learn how to target. He was just like a crazy fucker running down the field. I'll just bite you when I can find you. Okay. You got to teach him that. Everybody knows this. You got to teach him how to target. Okay. And thank God, Ivan put the sleeve on and did some targeting with the dog. The dog still jumped onto the arm in the trial, but I hope Mark learned something that day. It was a good, good dessert. These were amazing times too. I mean, we have to keep them going. I just watched you on, on your Facebook working dogs again. I mean, it's, it's just, it's just, it melts my heart, things like this, you know? You know, right now, Ivan, I'm really, I'm really pumped. Okay. I have a tremendous obedience coach now. My God, this woman, she, her shit. I've seen a lot of people train dogs. I'm an old man. I've seen a lot of stuff. Okay. This woman can, and also too, um, you gotta, you know, you gotta have a team. You gotta have a coach. You gotta have an honest coach. Tell you a real quick story. I was watching somebody who made the team, really good dog trainer, really good shepherd dog. And I just went to watch because they have a good helper and I wanted the helper to work with my dog. And I was watching this guy train his dog. Okay. And he has a spotter watching him and the dog does a slow sit and a slow down. And his spotter says it was marvelous. Okay. Well, two weeks later, guess what? And the qualifier had a slow sit and slow

down or what the hell? Come on, spotter. Be honest. You know, tell me my shit don't stink. Okay. That's your job. All right. But besides, no, I have a tremendous obedience coach right now. Um, I forgot what you asked me. I'm sorry. Tell me about the dog. How old is it? What my Doberman? Yeah. Yeah. My new one. Yeah. The new one. Uh, she's like almost three years old. Oh yeah. She's something. She really rocks. Uh, what happened? Okay. I had my other Doberman, you know, for those people now I talk about, I won the nationals with him. Keeper. Uh, one of the great disappointments of my life is I missed two Doberman world championship with him because of COVID. Yeah. Yeah. And he was a really, Keeper's a really great dog. I know. I saw you. I saw you with him. You know, he was like a golden retriever. And also too, his Doberman genetically must have a super grip. If they don't from the beginning, forget it. Okay. But once they have that genetically, and what I mean genetically, it's born that way, uh, they have, they're some of the best gripping dogs there is. There's this, uh, and I want to say this too. I love this statements. Oh, only certain helpers can work Dobermans. Fuck you. Come on. A good dog is a good dog. Is there's traits. Sure. Okay. There's traits and you train different dogs and you know this shit. Right. But don't tell me that you got to be ordained in a certain breed to dog train them. It ain't like this. Okay. But anyway, um, uh, I'm sorry. Yeah. You have to, you have to, when, when you have a good dog, it's a, it's a good dog. Right. Anyway, with the Dobermans, uh, this dog, okay, I had keeper and actually, uh, the lady that owns the Dobermans, when I went to evaluate keeper, he was about nine months, 10 months old. His sister was better, but I didn't want her. She was too crazy. I just said, no, I didn't like, she'd jump over six foot fence. And I said, I can't have that shit. So anyway, with the Doberman I have now was out of her. Uh, I'm exceptionally, we'll see. I don't want to say no more than that. She's a really good dog. Uh, she has a tremendous natural grip. Uh, I have a little bit of an issue about her barking dub Dobermans. I describe them a lot like this. You have hounds and you have terriers. Okay. And their temperaments. Okay. The terriers want to chew your ass or stupid animals. They might do good obedience to hounds or lazy, uh, big old feet. Uh, the president of the IDC, the Doberman club just wrote this saying about our dogs are too old feet, too big, all this bullshit. But anyway, um, uh, uh, but if you get a cross

between those, you can get a really nice dog. The problem with Dobermans is they're too brittle. They're not designed well, the way they're, the way they're built. Okay. The body is too big. That stresses their ligaments, especially the rear end. Right. The body. Yeah. That's a very good point. I like, I always look at them and I admire how they're built, but I know that the body has a weak points. Not that every, everybody has weak points. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I know what you're talking about. Believe me in that breed, there's more perversions than there is in other breeds. Okay. And in that breed, it's, you know, it's just, it gets like so many, once you go into disavowing a dog, the way it looks, how big can a girl's tits be? You understand what I'm saying? You know, it's ridiculous. Okay. And so, but anyway, uh, she's a good dog. I really like her. We'll see. You know, I, I, I'm very lucky. I have a true, I want to say again, I have a tremendous obedience coach. I'm very happy. I'm very happy. I, uh, uh, no, it's going to be good. That's amazing to like, that's, that's the whole, the cool thing about what we do, no matter how old, no matter how many world championships, no matter how, there is always something to learn, something that intrigues you, something that excites you, something that's like. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I would. And again, it's because it's a competitive sport, you know? And if you, you know, there's an old saying in American baseball from a tremendous baseball player, you better look forward. Cause if you look back, someone's going to catch you, you know? And that's, what's so beautiful about our sport and really being an old guy, I've seen such a tremendous evolution in this and, in the, uh, and that the, and the judges have to maintain this, that the dog has to again, be in that performance obedience. You know, the obedience must be exact, but the dog must show a performance in this. And, and also too, and I'll say one other thing to the handlers. I know it's hard to be, it's hard, you're nervous. I just had a new guy, bless his heart. He went to his first regionals, you know what I'm saying? And he was like, man, my first reason. And he said, when I went to the track, but I pulled first and I was so nervous. I didn't know what to do. And I know all that. I know all that, guys, but really, uh, understand the dog. He doesn't understand. He thinks anything that you feel the dog paused, try to get over your nerves, learn to be happy, learn to be happy when you show

your dog radiate. Also too. I like to think that my radiance is going to take over the judge, but that's just my crazy shit. Okay. I, if you see me, sometimes you'll see I'm Joe happy out in that field and the judge goes, Hey, this guy's kind of crazy. I'll give him a few more points. Go ahead. Smart. That's smart. Plus it needs to be this way. I've been, you understand. I'm so conscious. I want, I want, I want 20 years from now, 30 years from now, 40, you know, everybody to enjoy what we, a real good friend of mine, Roland Seibel, who I admire tremendously, a German, German judge. He said to me, Dean, because I'm so worried that my grandson won't be able to have the fun we had in the dog sport. True. True. Very true. You know, and really, because, and it's not just a personal fun, you know, it's, it's, we're doing, man, we are doing, and I don't, we are doing really good things for the future in our sport. This is what makes dogs good. Go ahead. Ask me something else. I'm sorry. So let's do, um, let's go back California time. Sure. Sure. These were, these were special times for me and I'm sure for you too. Yeah. Absolutely. Good. Like you, you were, you were, you owned the whole Bay area. Like, I mean, from, from up north, from above San Francisco, all the way down to above San Jose, there was a schedule and somehow we all knew where Dean's gonna be to work dogs. And here I am working at guide dogs for the blind, walking around all day long, driving through Golden Gate Bridge in huge traffic. Yeah. Loading my dog and heading back to San Jose in the biggest traffic on 101. Yeah. That takes me, even back in the nineties, it would take me an hour to get there. Yeah. And here we are at 11 p.m. Yeah. Starting to fucking train dogs. Yeah. Yeah. And here is Dean making the list how he's gonna work the dog. So he kind of puts them in the group so he doesn't wear himself out with a bunch of strong dogs. So he kind of balance them out. Yeah. But there were so many dogs in so many days. Yeah. And you guys lived in that van. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, you know, Ivan, before that, let me, let me, you know, you want to talk about history. So, so let me, let me, let me go back really to the, to the beginning. Yes. In 1979, before that, okay, before that, uh, when I was in college, okay, a friend of mine had a German Shepherd and I wanted one and I got one and he was a shitter. He wasn't a good dog, but I wanted to know why he was a bad dog. Okay. He was the best dog in obedience class because I liked doing this. I liked doing that, but out every, and he got worse and worse and worse

in his temperament. Okay. So I wanted to find out why. And in those days, there was no internet. There was, it wasn't like now. Okay. So all we had their information, you talk about dog sport magazine. It was very, there was no information. There were mag, there were books you would read and you'd see pictures of these German dogs. Let me say something else. I have a keen interest in history. I love history. It's fascinating to me how this dog training sport grew out of that culture in Germany. That is some really weird, man. That is some really weird. Anyway, let me continue. Uh, anyway, so, uh, after I wanted to know my, why my dog was a turd. Okay. Why it was no good. And, and, uh, I had a friend, uh, his name was Val Durer. Uh, I still hope he's alive. Really good guy, man. Really good guy anyway. And, uh, he had a really nice dog, uh, a shepherd dog. Anyway, there was a magazine, uh, Dog World and there was ads in there, just a few ads of these German dogs. Okay. And then you'd read books, whatever about these German dogs. Okay. And then, um, um, I remember reading, I read in the LA times, uh, Schutzen training. Oh God, I wish I had, I wish I had a camera in my brain to show you, to tell you what I'm going to tell you now with an actor named Timothy Carey. Timothy Carey was this, he always played the heavy. He was in a lot in a show called Beretta and he was always, he played like this ghoul kind of guy. He was really this weird character. Okay. So there was Schutzen training with Timothy Carey. So I said, cool, I'm going to go out there and watch this stuff. So I got there. This guy was a character. I could tell you Tim, this is, I could tell you a lot of Timothy Carey stories. So anyway, he wanted out, he wanted all this money to train the dog. And I was just a poor kid and I couldn't pay that shit. Uh, maybe later I'll think of some good Timothy Carey stories. But anyway, so, uh, one thing leads to another, one thing leads to another. And somehow I found out about, I remember, I saw, somehow I found out about Schutzen in San Francisco, the Peninsula Canine Corps. And, and, and, and, you know, guys, everybody likes to talk about the old days, but I talk about the, the USA headquarters. I'd love to see a hall of fame. There's a man named Gernot Riedel. And there's everybody in this country owes, uh, uh, to Gernot Riedel. He was the ultimate character, but he did so much for this sport. He was one of our first judges. He did so much for the sport. I went up there. I watched those guys train. I came back to Los Angeles and then somehow or another, the sport

was just getting going. There was isolated clubs in different places in America, but they really didn't have like a national organization. And then in 76, United Schutzen, the clubs of America, these different clubs, mainly influences by Gernot Riedel and his group in San Francisco, Paul Hombach, who was the character of characters in Wisconsin, a guy, crazy ass German, Dr. Strasser and Washington DC, some other guys, uh, they got together and they started United Schutzen clubs for America. And right away, man, that took off like wildfire. Why? Because we had German shepherds and everybody loves German shepherds. And that's what we're missing right now on our advertising or sport. Those dumb shits. Let me continue. So anyway, uh, uh, so anyway, uh, so now it's 1970. I don't know. I've got my first puppy. Uh, and I was very lucky about that. You talked about dog sport magazine. Okay. Uh, the guy who started Schutzen USA magazine was named Mike McCowan. And because of that magazine that promoted our sport, you understand you had advertising right in front of the look, Schutzen USA, look at these German shepherds doing this shit. You can do it too. Okay. So Mike had a litter of puppies. All right. And I wanted to get a puppy and I was lucky because the first litter was from a show line dog. And I didn't know that in those days, but his second litter was from a word. And that dog was national champion that cliff Holcher had trained a dog named cliff and Phil won like the first nationals with them. Like in 77, maybe 76, something like this. Okay. But my puppy was from that dog. Okay. So what did I have that other people didn't? I had a good dog. So when I would go to seminars, people, the Germans wanted to help me because they, I had a good dog. They're not just some shitter. You understand? Oh my God. What are you doing with the shitter? I can't do anything with this dog. It's a waste of time. So anyway, now the clock turns ahead. I joined one of the first seven clubs ever in USA. There were seven clubs started USA, San Fernando Valley Schutzen Club, Tom Mitchell, Phyllis Leakey, some crazy ass people. I didn't like, it was very, I still have a hard time. Dog sport was very difficult for me in the beginning because I'm a hippie from San Francisco. Right. Okay. And I have those values very deep in me. Okay. I do not like, I don't like sexist men. I don't like racism. I, I, and, and I don't like negative energy. It's very difficult for me to be around those atmospheres, but I, there was a couple

of great, great individuals, Roger Stroud and the coolest guy. Oh my God. I'm glad this is coming back to me. Guy named Joe Rendon. Joe Rendon was the coolest guy in the world. This is how I decided to be Dean Calderon when I met Joe Rendon. Okay. This is maybe 77 or 78. We're having a seminar. So I'm going to the seminar and on the sideline, there's Joe and Joe Rendon's about 55 years old. This Mexican dude, real dark Mexican dude. And Joe Rendon had been in prison in, in Texas for two joints, like for 20 fucking years. Okay. But how he got out early, he would let the dogs chase him. Okay. But he got so good at it. The fucking dogs couldn't catch him. Okay. So Joe Rendon in those days, I mean, you think about this is 77, 76, 78. If your dog didn't bite Joe Rendon, it ain't going to bite nobody. Okay. So I'm walking up the seminar on the sidelines. There's Joe Rendon. He's sitting on a blanket. He's got like three really nice teenage girls sitting around him. He's smoking a great big joint and he's doing the rap. I look at that and I said, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be just like Joe Rendon. He was a cool dude. But anyway, after to lead one thing, to go to another, I had a really good dog. Nando was my first dog. I won the hot championship in 79. It was the third national championship in San Jose. After that I met and I didn't. With Nando, I only remember like the name will always come up as a, as a backstory. You know, that's how I remember it. Great Nando story. I mean, I don't, just a quick, at national training seminar, a great, great trainer named Reinhardt Lentner. My God, what he taught me about tracking. I'm not going to say about this. I got to keep my mouth shut because I'll start saying things. People get angry, but he really knew about tracking. He was in a seminar and those custom police guys, they knew how to use that stick in protection. How to block dogs, how to smack them in the head to get more aggression. Understand in those days, in the critique and the trial, the last words said were hardness, courage, fighting drive. And then they gave a system one to 10 and thank God they don't say that no more. You can't say those words. There'd be no more dogs sport. If you say those words, God, understand that. But in those days, they said those words. Okay. So fighting drive, the demonstration of that. And also in my little bit, what I'm seeing nowadays in dog sport, the judges are understanding there's gotta be some, they don't say it, but there's gotta be some fighting drive there too in the protection phase. It just can't be

flat on the arm like you're just glued on like a turkey. But anyway, uh, Reinhard Lintner was given the seminar, you know, and I had learned some stuff and I could tell you more about that too. But anyway, and talk about Nando and he tested Dean. He goes, Dean, get that Nando stick. In those days, you had a reed stick. Okay. We use reeds and there was a great big thick bamboo stick about this big. And that was called the Nando stick. Okay. She's gonna whop dogs in the head to keep them clean in the blind. In the blind. Okay. So anyway, that was the Nando stick. But anyway, let me go on. Uh, uh, I want to really talk about Egon Valrath. Okay. Man, Egon is definitely a name that needs to be mentioned. Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you guys enough about Egon Valrath. Okay. Really? Uh, the Valrath family, uh, somebody said they were like the Kennedys and, and Egon and it's, I really want to make the positiveness that he brought to our sport and how he brought this. Okay. First of all, we would have a seminar every couple of months with great trainers. With superstars. Yes. And it became like a deal in Germany that if you didn't get invited to Egon's house, you weren't shit. Okay. And Egon, I mean, I'm telling you. And another thing that we were smart about, and later on, I remember conversations about this with Reiser and Koning a few years later. Uh, we didn't have one person who lead us, led us to the ring on our nose. You understand? Uh, there's just a three phrase sport. Okay. The border police guys, Renhard Littner and those guys, they taught us tremendous amount about tracking, tremendous amount about tracking. Don't talk to me about that American that every thinks is so famous. Give me a fucking break. Anyway, let me continue. Uh, uh, uh, in protection, it was evolution. And I'm, there's a lot of names to be talked along that evolution. Uh, uh, I'm kind of lost in thought now. Um, in obedience, uh, eventually the big magnitude jump up, it was finally meeting Fritz Buehler. But let me get back to Egon Ballrath. Egon had a thirst and a hunger like I did for dog sport. He wanted it so bad. He wanted to learn. He wanted to experience and also to every aspect of Egon from that. Plus he, he, Egon showed up in this country. Uh, he was, I love this story. He, he loved the story about the immigrants. Egon showed up in this country with $500 in his pocket. His son, his son, Margaret, with his son, Martin was a baby and his wife had $500 in his pocket. You tell your story. Egon was a, was a steel, was a metal worker. So he goes to San Jose and gets a job, but he don't know how to do

anything because it's all in meters, you know, and English is English is inches, you know, and Egon tells the stories like, you don't know what the fuck to do. And the guy said, can you read blueprints? He goes, of course I can. Egon's dad, I can tell you so many great Egon stories, man. Jesus Christ. Egon's dad was a metal worker in Germany. Okay. And, and so Egon learned the traits from, he was a little kid. His, I would be, I guarantee you the Volra family home was still in Germany with that metal shop in the back. Okay. But anyway, uh, so Egon came here with nothing and he talked about somebody who worked his ass off. Okay. You know, and work ethic and everything else. He made himself a very nice business, super business. Yeah. And that, and of course you could have money and that enabled us to do a lot of great things. Okay. And, and again, we weren't closed mind. Okay. To me, it's very simple in this sport, the proofs and the points. You ain't got no points. You ain't got no proof. You can talk all you want. I'm happy for you to talk to me. Okay. Some guys aren't great teachers. They can't teach very well. Okay. But I can watch you train your dog and maybe learn something. But the bottom line is, if you ain't got no points, there ain't much to talk about. You're a judge. I'm happy for you. We need more of those. Good for you. Especially in those days, they'd bring some old German over. Good for you. He brought worse. I'm happy for you. Okay. You're not going to teach me nothing about training no dogs. Okay. And Egon allowed this. We had such an atmosphere for this in the eighties in South County. I mean, we had so many experiences, so many times I was thinking about this today and I knew I was going to talk to you. One of the most beautiful experiences with, and guys, I mean, how many world teams did we make? How many of us did first time out in Egon, everybody thought in the Bay area that Egon was the buffoon. All of his buddies thought Egon was the fat, stupid German who played the Constantina. And then Egon hicks up with this stupid hippie guy. What are you doing? And he left their club. He left PCC. We went and took over a new club. He left all of his buddies. And they're like, Whoa, what are you doing with the stupid hippie kid? What are you doing? What are you doing? Okay. So first time out, we go to, in those days, it was called, what was it called? Shutsun three tournament or Sunday was what the WDC is now. Okay. We go there to Indiana. Egon's first, Martin second, Martin 16 years old. So thank you very much. Okay. And that was just

the beginning. Now I can go on from there. I forgot what that was leading to. But anyway, uh, uh, no, Egon was just such a marvelous, marvelous. Oh, great story. I forgot. Uh, Budapest 1985, 1986, still a communist country. I like, I like history. Egon and Martin, Egon gets 98 points in protection with a show dog, irk the jerk, show dog, VA father, VA mother, show dog, crazy motherfucker who helmet only showed me how to use bite rewards and the e-caller to make this stuff. Absolute another day, another story. Anyway, he gets 98 points in protection. Martin comes out there 16 years old, gets 96 points in protection. Okay. And I'm like, yeah. So we're driving through the streets of Budapest and it's hot like a motherfucker. We got the American flag out the back of the, uh, the, of the, of the, of the station wagon playing born in the USA full blast with the kids chasing us through the streets of Budapest. And that you want glory. You can have that glory or you can stick to your American dog sports and have glory in Topeka, Kansas. What kind of glory do you want? Yeah. What kind of glory do you want? I've walked in the stadium with my team, with the USA team and the whole stadium going USA, USA, that's glory. That's magnitude. You want to go to Topeka, Canyons with your leg biting dog. I'm happy for you. That's all I got to say. Go ahead. After some man, Egon and his sons, man, Thomas. Oh yeah. Yeah. And let me continue with that. Egon and his sons, uh, his son, Martin. Uh, I mean, we, I just can't tell you enough. We had, okay. Another story. We had a guy, uh, Al Kerr was his name. He was a dentist and, uh, our sport is athletic. Okay. And Al was the kind of guy where like, you pick them last. When you pick sides, he gets picked last. Okay. But Al was smart. He was a very intelligent, intelligent man, right? Exceptional intelligent man. And he could learn. Okay. So Al comes out with it after Egon won that spring championship. Martin was second. Now we go to the national championship. And I wish I could tell you everything. Maybe one day when I'll die, I'll really tell you everything. Cause I knew who it was shaking. I knew who it was shaking. Okay. It was basically, man, I could really get people mad at me. It was basically some characters from, there's an area that's Southern of Michigan and Ohio and those kinds of places. Okay. So these characters decide that there's like this war and the war is against us. Well, very true. This was like, like the East cause West cause rap story. That's where we were really. Right. Right.

Okay. You guys want to have a war fine. So we show up for the next championship. Okay. And we got a new guy. Cause you guys haven't even seen yet. Okay. And this is the youngest dog ever to win the national championship. Al Kerr goes out there, wins that motherfucker. Martin is second. He got a seventh. And we're like, okay, let's continue. And then there was more after that. But anyway, Al's dog, Doug was his name tremendously. And see, this is another thing that we knew right from the beginning, even though Egon's dog was a show dog, he was a genetic freak. Okay. And the training was really, it's not the kind of training that I like to do. Basically what you do is you attract the aggression. He was so recently, I was watching a video of a very famous show dog named Dingle vom Hausgero. Okay. And I know some history about this dog and they showed the protection at the Seeger show and people are saying, Oh, he's nervy is all this shit. And that might be true. But his, in his brain, that dog was really biting that guy. He didn't, he doesn't have the, he didn't have the ancestors of the prey drive, like our modern German shepherd dog has. So when his brain, he was doing his protection, like I'm going to bite that motherfucker. So that's why he showed a little bit of wavy gravy. Okay. And it was the same thing with Egon's dog, that show dog, that crazy. And a lot of show dogs that will bite you still think this way. He thought he was chewing you up. So we had to work with that. That's a very hot drive, that aggression, like, and you learn how to cap it with the e-collar, what I like to call the junior. And it worked out pretty good for Egon. Won some championships with that monster, a hundred points in protection to win the Canadian championship and some other things. But anyway, about where he got, let me continue real quick. Really, he needs to be, like recently, I was very disappointed. They had the nationals in California, and I would have named it the Egon, Volrath, Gernot, Riedel, Willie Ordner Memorial National Championship. You know, these three guys, you know, I mean, you know, they did so much, you know, and, and, and, and, and it's, and again, maybe it's stupid when you get old to think about the past, but, but, you know, it's okay. Yeah. And ask me something else. I'm sorry. Go ahead. How, how, man, I, I just, I, I almost don't want to interrupt you because it's so like it's just been so much memories and it's so cool. Like I, I mean, we were really fortunate and everybody has their times and everything. But Egon truly was instrumental for the whole sport in the

country but especially as you said in in california we were so fortunate to have because there was no internet we yes and he would bring the best of the best for three days four days five days and we would sit i remember us watching helmut reiser we see and he goes into behind the san jose club on on we're all on the bench having drinks and whatever and he's on the big white board talking and we're like oh and then and then we go and we train and it's just amazing times yes but you know what like i i'm curious how how did the where who who helped you who guided you with the helper work like how did that all started because i mean eventually you became somebody on your own i mean working so many dogs so many different dogs the shitty dogs the excellent dogs yeah first of all let me say something first of all okay you know a helper work sure you gotta have physical gifts okay and i you know god gave me some physical gifts okay um when i was young i was a pretty good national natural athlete you know but i think more important than that is my extreme liberal raising education i come from a christian family i'm not a christian but i one thing that grabbed me so hard about christianity that is lost is compassion okay you have to have compassion you have to get compassion and a lot of people say oh dean that's a dickhead he told me dog was a shitter and he was all mad at me that's true too but believe me there's many many many people i've helped from nothing you got to have compassion for that dog and that handler okay really you really got to do your job as a helper that's why you're called the helper you have to make that dog the best possible dog you possibly can be the germans have a saying okay you have to be able to train an army of dogs okay not even a green beret has to be trained but you got to be able to train some cooks too because if you can't train those cooks man what are you gonna do with the green berets you understand and also to our sport is uh i'll get back to help work in a minute you know i understand it's hard for people in america because you have a job you have a family you got to work yada yada yada how many hours do you have to dedicate yourself to this okay so you go to the dog club you only want to have two or three hours a night you want to go home on the other hand uh we need to be able to train there's nothing wrong with soft dogs and developing those dogs and building them up let me know about helper work okay in the very beginning all right uh probably my first real influences was uh

uh oh let me let me think now was of course uh the zoll guys uh let me let me get back to something that even before even get before that uh i met doug deacon okay and doug deacon and i actually lived together in california for about six months we worked for the shyster the shyster guy came to me and says dean i'm gonna buy this big facility and this is what i learned about it's happened to me a thousand times in my life dean we're gonna buy this facility oh yeah dogs yeah right that's what i want to do anyway this guy came to me and one and i was a young guy so i said okay cool i'll do that he came to doug and said the same thing quick story about doug how i met the how i met doug 1978 i think it was 1980 at the nationals in denver okay a guy named fred scharf from canada had tremendous german shepherd dog named ook bungalow fred comes up to me goes dean will you work oh i said sure man i'll walk no problem tremendous dog super super super so doug standing there and he's got this dog named sheba and i swear to god it's like benji comes to schutzen if you ever know what benji looked like it was just looked like benji okay so so doug says will you work my dog in those days i was like this young nazi crazy kid and i'm like okay you know so you know dog barks nice escape bite re-attack i can't hit her with the sticks she just looks like benji you know doug says out comes and doug just gets in my ass you hit my dog with the stick okay dude you want to play that game fine benji comes up whopped the out of her she bites even fucking harder i'm like holy fuck and then you never saw this in those days doug waits 10 minutes comes up brings her on the field and does the best obedience i've ever seen in my life i go back to the hotel and everybody's like well i'm gonna win i'm gonna win i'm gonna win you guys ain't seen shit i just saw benji comes to schutzen and she's gonna kick our fucking ass and sure enough she kicked our fucking ass okay doug is a great i had so many great times man doug i have so much respect from him you know from i mean he's so well oh i mean he's just but and but like the way he can read the dog yes you know it's like you know when he tells you that dog is good you don't need to test that anymore yeah you know really uh there's been some uh uh you know i know we get on target on off track but my mind you know one of the great things that's happened in our sport i really think is the judging has gotten a lot better i really do when i watch it a little bit okay and doug was one of those to help control obedience behaviors that obedience must be shown in a natural

format you can't be extreme one way or the other and your pace all these things okay also too i mean this is really one thing after uh i know i was supposed to talk about help or but let me go back we can go all over the place anyway you know sometimes like one of my biggest pet peeves in obedience i mean i can't stand handler help it just drives me nuts right okay it drives me nuts and what drives me nuts too as a judge who allows this head come in on the front you can't eyes front that's simple eyes front okay this is not a club trial we're talking championship time now you're never to look at the dog you know what never means never not sometimes not only on tuesdays never okay you know what also never means the dog can't touch you with the dumbbell i'm sorry it's simple never means never okay and i watch this those two simple things eyes not front and dog touching the dumbbell and i watch the inconsistency in championships judging this and i want to i want to go to the judge what the is wrong with you and the judges nowadays you can't question they got all emotional how dare you talk to me you said i made doo doo you're a professional you can't handle a question right a lot a lot of a lot of churches don't have the i i i and that's my opinion i think they see it but they don't have the courage to to actually stand stand for the rules and for the sport you know i don't go that much ivan i just this year i watched some of the qualifiers you know and in some of the judging was a little um um again i think they need to make people understand again i thought mike deal showed his dog really well very ice front okay pretty good okay i'm not going to say some other handlers it was embarrassing to me it was and the judge just let it shut slide it was like that's cool it was like you know one group later you know and then a couple of the women i mean he just killed these women i mean what the hell you know what are you some kind of and and it was a couple of women in obedience and this one particular woman in protection phase i mean dude dude come on man what are you talking about you know what are you talking about and uh uh you want to uh i don't know anyways let's talk about how judging judging is very difficult man yeah it's really i wouldn't want to do it i don't i mean it's such a hard job you know what an interesting point for discussion is it good to have like three judges or just one judge you know there's a lot of good points to be made with that you know i mean pros and cons for sure what's that there are pros and cons for for multiple

judges with that three judges things i don't like average you know i don't like that so much but then i don't like you know you see but anyway sometimes in my german shepherd heart when there's a really good german shepherd judge that i admire i want to have one judge i want to have his opinion yeah and then next year i want to have somebody else who i admire their opinion i don't want to be shared opinions you understand because a lot of this is not just black and white it's what you see that day and what you feel that day okay so but anyway back to hold on hold on we'll get to the helper work but let's since we're on judges american judges uh-huh which one of all times stands out to you that you you have the utmost like that was that i thought was a good judge yeah oh man that's a hard one yeah i'll tell you mine and i i didn't know him too much oh now i cannot think like i'm so bad with names but you will remember him because he was very good with obedience he john mulligan yeah yeah yeah you know i only saw john judge a couple of times but he was one of the first guys to like he was somebody that when he gives me a critique i was able to go back home and train the i i knew what i needed to do right you know also to john i think really defined uh show people what the rules really were you understand these are the rules and it's only the rules it's not four strikes five strikes two strike just three strikes that the rules okay and he was very good at that he was very good at his presentation of the critique uh this is one thing too that i would like to see better by some american judges i don't know what they talk about at the judges college it's not my business but the first for instance you're judging a dog and let's suppose this dog makes 94 points overall in obedience well the first adjective out of your mouth should be this is a very good dog or this performance was very good and then you justify and you critique that first adjective you gave you understand and then each exercise it's not good enough or that was kind of nice no it's excellent or good right very good it's not all these other words put it in the writing all these other words it cannot be those words do not exist in the judges evaluation book it doesn't exist so how can it be pretty good it's either good or very good or whatever okay also to a judge can never talk about training in the trial never you never try you know you can pull the person aside cannot turn the critique into a mini seminar to show off how much you know as a judge this is the most ridiculous thing you know and i you know really it's

so i can imagine how hard it must be going i have again some friends that i admire that i think are great judges and i say and what do you do when you go to a club and like all the dogs are really bad and you're just like well what do you do he goes man you just try to make a good time of it you know you just try i had a friend he went and judged in china and he said it was just horrible you know they had all these dogs and they couldn't foos they couldn't down they couldn't do anything all right anyway but anyway back to helper work in the beginning uh uh again i learned a lot from those old guys helmet uh uh uh renhart lintner uh not uh i like lintner again there's certain traits and individuals i like i loved lintner's ability to teach i loved his patience with people i loved his compassionate with people there was another individual in those days that a lot of people really liked i didn't like him because you don't treat people that way you've got to find a good way and that's what i liked about renhart and he showed me a lot of tremendous things okay not just in tracking he showed me how to use that reed stick how to block the dog how to use the reed stick to whop him i don't want to talk about it i don't show it so much mark knows how to do it he knows how to do it how to use that reed stick to get some aggression out of that turkey you want that dog to bark at you i'll send him in the black i'll walk him with that stick they'll bark at me yeah people bless their hearts you know what's their hearts anyway that's their business but anyway after that really uh but then you make the dog grow from that that that was the key yeah that's a such a great that was the key yes because you take the edge here and then it's here and then and the dog learns to hand it's that way and then he comes and he knows he's the king yes and it's that way in every contact sport you understand at first it's light and then they learn you know and they're stronger you know i mean sure and and and you know i don't go nowhere i've been i don't watch nobody but i think maybe this is missing places i think i think okay i have a helper that i like very much a very athletic young man he knows nothing to this type of training nothing and you can see it in the dogs that he trains they're trained but they ain't got no heart they got no heart they got no heart they got no heart they got no zoom zoom you know they're just like a yank okay they do the routine good for you but back to it uh after that okay we started bringing people over and everything okay and i didn't like what was going on and i don't

want to say a name with somebody this is when i first went to egons 83. i didn't like who was the local hero in northern california he was not i didn't like this guy i didn't like the way he was i'd like everything about him i had seen articles about helmet riser and heard his name okay and i and egon had a guy his name was peter jacobs peter jacobs was here man he was a head okay great dog man another guy he was the head trainer for the park police in stuttgart and peter came over what a great dude peter's uh there's a tracking technique that i do to this day that peter showed me where i go backwards in the beginning people say you're crazy fine how many times i want tracking okay you just keep telling me that shit anyway and peter showed me that anyway so peter i'm talking to peter and i said you know peter i don't like this other guy yada yada yada and i said but what about helmet riser you know what are you thinking just well you know there's this other guy his name is helmet coning he's like in between these two guys okay and i had heard about him and coney he had come to america and done a seminar a couple years before and everybody was emotional because they put a lot of pressure on dogs okay okay so i said okay let's bring helmet and when helmet came man the stuff really got going you understand the elevation of all of of all the training first of all much better understanding of how to use the electric collar helmet was in very good at being able to twitch and let it grow instead of suppress it right yes yes and then i mean and talk about compulsion techniques you know how do i physically correct the dog and helmet knew that stuff okay so also too we called helmet the ice man because what helmet demonstrated so greatly is you can train and you can correct your dog but there's no reason to be mad why are you mad why are you mad all the time and all these other germs are like mad and mad all the time and i'm mad how many we call him the ice man he was just cool just go correct him okay so then now the ice man that's very good well because i when when i first saw him i mean it fits perfectly but i i i would always take of him as somebody very serious like he always paid attention and and he he always wanted to put in everything to every dog that he attended to right yes and you know he was another one too who could really read dogs and let me uh you know you talk about hoverwork i'll tell you about some tremendous experiences in my life um being in the blind with renhart lintner behind me and as the dog is coming in and barking at me he's talking in my ear and he's

telling me this and he's telling me that and he's telling me this and i'm like whoa cool you know just keep on talking man just keep on talking to me you know i mean i can remember those experiences helmut koning again his calmness his deliberateness okay then after helmut koning there was a lot of guys but who really and there's some fools i can give you a list of fools there's one guy who impressed upon and again it's you know this is why people should go to seminars i always tell people go to seminars don't volunteer your dog but if you learn one thing that helps you learn one thing because you got to be able to make your own stew you understand a little bit of salt here a little carrots here a little bit of this here a guy named franz dur came over and he was like a lot of people liked him he was a i'm not gonna say no more about franz dur but he was i don't think i've heard of like well maybe i do i am so bad with names that i know no he was again he was a guy and bless his heart but he didn't he didn't know why but he showed how important it was for that dog to hold that grip full constant dead prey and that was the first time i really saw that okay then his stick work we'd we'd been using the stick but he took it to an extreme level if we if you modified it down how we're using to use the stick and striking the animal to make the grip even stronger this is weird helper word shit but more i don't want to mention that the most important thing was exhibiting of the dead prey holding and what i could see then is what the dog was learning was learning was to breathe in and out through his nose right instead of going like this that'll open their mouth and then going okay now and being satisfied not being yes being questioning but being satisfied yeah and this is this point that you just made we start to understand that later that the dog needed this for satisfaction he wasn't he didn't know and that's why the word dead prey i've killed it it's dead i've won it's over it's i don't have to keep going like an idiot and keep kill mode going i have dead prey after that at the world championship in 91 or 92 93 was the first time america won the team championship and i'll be very conceited people that trained with me had three or four out of the top ten places a woman named renee lancaster and right now lancaster come on a dog of hers oh lord could i tell you stories of he was called then what did they call him but 220 man she was intense too oh my god dog and renee together both of them yes

you know in those days people thought we were crazy because we would come out there with renee and training and that dog would like run the blinds and do everything while we were doing obedience and then she would turn around and do dumbbells more like we were doing long bites and all this shit because we had it you know we had to get them that fucking tight you know we had to get him dog and i mean renee her work ethic i mean that's the kind of dog you got to train them every day every you know jogging i mean her work ethic renee was tough she got third place 99 points second place greg bennett okay little i'm gonna be blow my horn a little bit here they did a really good dog the job dog's name was buck he was a very nice dog a very good high prey dog a lot of good german shepherd dogs greg still plays what greg is still playing around yeah is our medium high prey dogs okay that you elevate your good helper work and all that and good obedience too but anyway so that was buck okay so that summer he had already done all this good shit with buck and he brought him to me but buck was biting the wrist for whatever reason okay he's going to the risk around the rest of the rest so i worked a few times and there's this up and over move that i learned years ago from a guy who was the guy bernhard mantel this is up and over move that i know and i did that with buck and lo and behold he gets second place at the at the world that year you know so good for gladden bennett but anyway what we were talking about oh i saw rajay won the world championship race whatever rajay schoelen hurts from belgium 99 points with a two and a half year old dog and i watched it and i saw there's something going on here something is this is a new level he's demonstrated something new so next year i go to belgium okay i go to belgium and i walk right in there and you can't want for a nicer man than raja just just so so people know what who we are talking so this is a roger snower yes yes yes and with that dog ory he he exactly just as dean saying it just he made uh he skipped two steps and he went somewhere else he showed everybody paid attention yes and it was an important time yes so i went to belgium you know and i saw and it wasn't just him it was ronnie and uh ronnie vanderberg oh god i forgot all the emil dylan really good oh man they were the belgians were fucking destroyed when i went there i was just like there was so much talent there yeah so anyway and then you know rajay started to show us some really good things about gripping and the importance of this uh uh the belgium the athletic

ability of the helpers too was so marvelous i love this uh rajay would do a thing i would call the belgium spin where he would drive the dog and every this is an old hippie saying every moment is a universe that's how much you got to be about it you can't be a bumfuck okay so when you're driving that dog along if you feel any pulsations in his mouth instantly you spin around and as you spin around the centrifugal force will kick into the animal to make make the grip stronger okay and then once the dog is at the height of the centrifugal force when you can feel the height of the grip being the most you crack that whip okay and then he comes around you drive a little bit and then when i saw the belgium guys do is you could slip that dog to sleep you could say sit and that dog sat there perfect grip holding that sleeve and i said that is dog training okay that is some dog training okay and that really kicked it up real high the helper work i mean really really high okay uh uh uh uh uh uh and i want to say something else more important to me than anything else and that's just fritz bieler okay there's no man who's more important you spend a lot of time with him too i mean you went so many times back there i mean he was you know uh uh how what can i say about fritz bieler uh he is uh you know when i was young fritz bieler was like elvis you know and i i always wanted to meet fritz bieler i mean he was like the king okay and i'll never forget budapest that first world championship we were sitting there in the basement there they had a bar and the german team is over there and i'm over here with the americans and i'm with egon and i said you got look there's fritz bieler and he goes yeah you got to know egon he's so cute egon was five feet tall and five feet wide so he walks up to fritz bieler goes hello i am egon sticks his hand out you know and no one said hello to fritz bieler he's the king okay so so they're talking german and so then fritz says to egon tell that young kid to come over here so he comes over here i sit down and he says uh fritz says something like some he said someone had seen me do helper work okay and then and and then fritz you got to know this guy this guy is the most intense uh borderline manic individual you ever want to meet in your life so with that he goes into and he's all talking german he got trying to keep up but he goes into seminar mode and it goes on for three hours and now we got to go outside at one in the morning in the parking lot and he proceeds to tell us to get our american dogs and he says they're fat and out of

shape and stupid and everything else he go gets his dog what was that dog's name i wish i could remember there's some great stories about that he brings him out and first thing i noticed that dog's back is like it's wide i'm you know what i'm talking about i mean the muscles and that dog's back okay it's two o'clock in the morning and fritz is putting on a show in the state in the parking lot okay so i'm like okay that's pretty cool so turn the story ahead a year or so later a wealthy man came to me in the bay area and said if you get my son to the nationals i'll buy you any dog you want to buy and that's a story in itself so i got the kid to the nationals the kid was great i used the kid was like a freak out kid you know what i'm saying you know and so i would meet him at high school i'd be out in front of the school and pick that kid up and we'd go train every day because i'm getting that it was important i mean i had to get that dog so anyway so i go to europe and i get a dog named axel von der linden holly and you know i like to tell stories so a man he was crazy drive up the motherfucker so and there's a guy named horse weissel great big dog broker in those days so and i'm looking at a couple of dogs and horse i want that one and horse didn't know him he goes no you can't handle that one he's too much for you you don't know what you're doing you can't oh i want that one so he goes okay so i get him so the first or second day i get him i go out to track him i tie him to a tree i lay at the track i come back i can't get him off the tree he's going to kill me so now i gotta go back to horse house and say horse guess what i can't get off the tree good story anyway uh back to fritz oh with that okay uh i knew i'd seen horse and fritz hanging out together in germany you know i knew there were buds so i said to horse i said man i would like to meet fritz bieler so i just i just want to meet i met him a couple years back i just want to meet him so we go over to his house you know we start talking put the sleeve on papa and man then it started and i'm telling you man i suffered i can tell you stories i mean i suffered okay one of the things that fritz would always do all the time he would demonstrate something to me he would always say the dog cannot suffer from your mistakes so maybe something in obedience a move he wanted you to make he would demonstrate it to you and then you had to practice that move without the dog so you could execute it perfect so i would go back to the hotel at night time and

practice in the mirror okay the move and for instance like my maybe my pet peeve about ice front because for fritz bieler when he hit me with stick i walked down the field i looked at the stars whop it hit me with that stick that's funny but again the thing about beeler what i want to say about him first of all his ability to read dogs um uh and again everybody's you gotta in the context of the time in the context of the time okay no one no one has ever accomplished and it's simple the proofs and the points oh yeah no one has accomplished what he great great story last time usa won the team championship 08 07 whatever year was in denmark i was team captain usa won that championship because the great obedience to charlie and and went and wallace pain and t did that's why they won that world championship but before the championship fritz is in the championship trial okay he's the oldest man with the youngest dog he had just won the bundesieger two weeks before some dog magazine from somewhere coming up and interviewing me and asking me questions i'm usa team captain who do you think is going to win i said i think fritz spieler they go the german grandpa you just watched your for grandpa you just watched german grandpa and he goes out there and wins that world champion the the story about that world championship what people need to know too is there was a guy on actually if you turn the clock back three weeks earlier to the bundesieger the dog that was third place in that bundesieger was fritz beeler's dog from the year before and you gotta know fritz beeler okay they fritz is adamant they robbed him they cheated me i should have won this is the best dog he's always like this okay always like so he gets all mad he's got his new dog he gives that dog to his friend an old man like him mind you these guys in the early 70s now and this guy hasn't shown a dog for like 20 years fritz goes no problem i'll coach you up they go to the bundes here and that guy gets third place just so fritz loves to stick it in your ear you know he just loves to stick it in your ear oh uh i mean i got but something big about fritz was and and you have to tell me more about it like like what i'm and i never had the privilege to to interact with him but he was very much like very structured like it's like no this is this is the time i feed my dog no this is the time like like there was uh ivan ivan you go to like that yes yes discipline and dogs want the same and and nothing coming out of the blue with them you understand and just and they learn to trust you that way you're the

pack leader you go to beeler's field for instance and there would be all these chalk marks on the on the field like geometry shit no no it's you put the dumb this is for the dumbbells this is for the bungee this is this mark this is that mark tell you a story this is many years because it's all about creating very solid habit yes before you put it anywhere else if you if you don't train mistakes the dog doesn't know he can make mistakes you know uh years later this is a story roland seibel is another one who learned so much from fritz beeler this is years years later we're at fritz's place this is when i had rex and he goes uh and we're talking and i used to love to pry because i knew if i started prying him on questions he just you know he'd start going you know so i'm starting to prime questions about feeding okay and then he goes come with me and we go downstairs the basement and roland looks at me because dean he's never let me in the basement and i'd already known for 20 years you'd never let me in the basement okay we go in the basement there's a kitchen and he has a graph of what that dog is going to eat for the next 30 days exactly okay and then he has another graph about exercise the dog's going to get this exercise and that exercise and i'm like okay you know this is what i'm talking about yeah i mean when you think about the super athletes human athletes that's what they do today yes yes and he would you know he would get his he would get his like he's feeding from horse people in germany i mean he was all about this i mean he was uh every little thing every little intricacy with the dog was so relevant to him you know i mean i mean i i've i just uh i'm the only one who has lots of training video i wish t was here with me now because he would enjoy this i'm gonna tell you a secret and everybody else no no no but you mentioned t and and one day i want you t and i live podcast i didn't believe me i had the same thought i had we we have to do that i have to you know when you get t to get him to play his his drums it's cool man he can play uh but anyway another story uh fci championship whatever year it was uh i was on the fci team with uh with with with uh with with with uh rico who i got from fritz and i was also on the shepherd team that year and fritz came out to the fci because it was before the shepherd championship and that was like a tune-up trial so he came to watch me and you know watch and watch so afterwards i said to him i said man fritz we would really like to come

over and just meet you and stuff and you got to know face like no no i cannot meet nobody no you come and we train no one can come no one can come i said fritz they just want to come and shake your hand that's all okay okay okay so okay and you got to know fritz too i love it so i tell the team we're gonna go meet fritz and i said now listen before we go in front of the hotel i'm gonna expect all you dudes because you cannot have dirty clothes you know when you show up fritz the south with dirty clothes you go home seriously if you got dirt on your shoes on your tracking boots what's wrong with you i mean that's how he you know really seriously seriously he changes his shirt every time after he does obedience his wife brings him a new shirt okay to the special shoes for obedience okay this is a huge fucking deal so anyway before we go i have to inspect everybody i'm gonna run out of battery here soon but anyway before we go he inspects everybody you better charge it yeah i'm going to anyway so i got to make sure everybody's you know cleaning everything so we go there okay and fritz is there with his normal stern self and uh but right away the team captain gives him the flag and that kind of breaks the ice so then his wife ellie brings out coffee and shit and we're sitting around talking a little bit so we start training dogs you know and um there was a sleeve in germany they don't use it so much anymore it's called ebinger and the cool thing about the sleeve you can use right arm left arm switch back and forth he had a dog named ike okay i remember a lot of great ike stories tremendous ike stories uh so uh t brings out ikey and right away fritz looks at the dog goes malamuah because you could see the dog had malamuah in him he was from he was from he was from the netherlands you know that registration so you know what goes on there okay so anyway uh long story short fritz gives t that original fritz invented an ebinger sleeve years before and he gave t the original prototype and t still has it in his house and anyway that day fritz let us videotape training and it's one of the few places where there's real training with fritz beeler you know there wasn't it was just mostly like rex some stuff with his own dog you know a little bit with t's dog uh real real quick story uh t was here he would like you know i was having big problems with rex with the sitting motion and the real problem was his anal glands were messed up and i found out when i went home starts foosing foosing foosing foosing foos past he goes past me and t ivan he's so light on his feet

you can't even hear him you know when he's walking past you and then he tells the dog sit and he does this move where he catches his chin with one hand and the other hand he pops his butt but it's not the slow i mean it happened so fast you know it's like wow and then he just kind of looks at us takes the dog away comes back okay does it without it the dog just nails it then he looks at me and goes what there we go i mean i mean is this uh no i mean uh fritz beeler again another individual who it's just i'm so blessed that he opened up to me i just can't say enough you know i just he's a very difficult man i'm lots of times i'm glad i didn't speak german um uh he's uh his basic character uh i talk about character is maybe as an individual maybe i wouldn't like but he had something i wanted so bad i wanted to know what he knew you know interesting that's very very very yeah believe me if i don't like you right you know i can't be around you so much but he had that that i needed so anyway that's a good point how you put it very very nicely you know what i was thinking kind of to to sidetrack a little bit but you know early early on when we were talking about every sport one one i think one thing that keeps a certain sport being humans horses whatever there is always appreciation acknowledgement of history of hall of fame of who is who and our sport lacks this we never think about maintaining history and maintaining like like even when you think about the name how many times we change the name of the sport right like you you by just by changing the name all the time you're you're destroying imagine imagine nike changing their name yeah 20 times right right right like we cannot maintain we cannot build like future is built by what we do at present times which creates the past but the past is important and and somehow the the igp community really has not found the way how to how to excite people with the past and that's what you're doing right now believe it or not that's what is happening i hope everybody that does igp gets excited and makes it motivated go to want to train you know riser was just here last year did a seminar and i went you know i like right he's a good man he really tries really hard okay he really does very good intentions for august crazy shit and he talked about something that is maybe the truth and ivan you're such a great example of this we need to have superstars in our sport okay we need to have people who people can say i can do that too you know but in the last couple of years the judging has gotten a little bit too i think

maybe the last year has gotten a little bit better but for a while there it got so extreme you know i mean like what is this gold you know and it's like and like i was saying earlier you i look at these new handlers are you gonna go out there and just get your ass chewed up by these judges you know and i mean we have to and i'm not talking about giving away points okay it's very great that mark make 97 points this weekend at the fci that's great for the new people in our sport to have that example of a of a younger person who can do it too at a great level that you can there there is success that you're not just going to go there and get kicked in the teeth after you try so hard you know one thing um who was the judge that said that to me uh gunther diegel he said something to me once he says when you're judging if the dog doesn't show pressure you have to find something good to say you have to okay you got to give people a cookie for if you wanted to come back you know um um um again you know uh i know our sport is i'm gonna i'm sorry i'm probably gonna draw power really soon i just don't know how to charge this thing but anyway i know our sport is really difficult it takes such a time commitment but really uh you're you've got to really understand that what's really cool is it not just you you're part of a force you really are and especially if you really do your research and you get a breed quality dog understand all that breed quality stuff all that evaluation stuff that's data and data gives you information gives you knowledge okay there's many german shepherd dogs in germany who've never passed who passed the breed survey who never get bred yes the owner knows it's their responsibility to go to the breed survey to get the data okay and this is vital um again about our sport i don't ever want to see it's okay to have cash prizes and shit like this sometimes but that never should be like the deal ever because then the dogs will suffer they will suffer from the money just go to bird dogs you'll see it okay but on on the other hand um we need to really think about how we can promote what we do more you know we really need to they need to talk to the to the judges about don't have a sharp pencil in a local trial think about what sunday afternoon in germany means you don't pass shitters you know what's a really interesting point and this would be such a point in discussion is what's going to happen with no stick kids this is a tough one this is a really tough one especially we're not so concerned with our working

line german shepherds because the breeding is so strong in there but you get like your show line german shepherds yipes it's borderline as it is now then what's going to happen your show line rottweilers those are kind of dogs that bite people and turn on people then what's going to happen they think they're making it better but in fact they're opening the door they're opening a door for breeding of weak nerves right i mean it's really yipes that more you know i don't like to be like oh the old days were the best and all this but man that's kind of that scares me and it's so hard to make the public understand that yeah it changed it really to this year changed changed the sport changed the changed the evaluation of dogs it changed everything not for good you know i asked pierre the great judge from sweden at the wdc this year about that and i said would you think the helper should be stronger do you like a lot of times in the old days the helper would scream at the dog all the time and he said dean in europe people aren't going to handle that they're not going to handle that screaming at the dog and all that stuff it ain't going to go on i don't know what to say you know uh i don't know what to say i think it was a matter of education i you know what is interesting with this and i spend a lot of time about that topic and i talked with with quite a few people already nobody nobody like fci wosv nobody was pressured by outside political forces to remove the tickets that came from within this is the sad part where we could have educated why we need it why it's so important and why it's not really hurting and cruel and and all this what ifs because in our sport if the dog doesn't want to do it the dog says i'm not gonna do it and there is nothing you can do about it you get another dog that likes to do that it's a it's a big mystery why this happened it's it's it's it's it's it's to me it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's you know that is something about this you know because really what our sport is such it's the best definition of temperament there is for a working dog okay and to take that critical aspect of the test away right man it's tough and that's where you know like i i i mean knowing over the years i know shoot school is your thing and i i've grown up like i again like i i did ring sport and i still do ring sport and i appreciate all the dog sports in certain level what i really like appreciated the most and the reason i was doing igp or shoot one was because you evaluate character and now that changed in 2023 that changed from today on the game is different

it is you know again you just it'll be see what happens down the road you know see how the judges look at the protection phase well it's it's a tough one you know it's it everybody everyone talks about this everybody who's been around for a long time discusses it you know uh you know if we want to play the game we got to play by the rules they give us we just can't make up our own rules so but it's not the same game you've got a good point there i know it's it's a tough one you know i i don't i'm not one for uh being again there's nobody more uh um um uh radical than me let's put it that way but i'm not one for tearing down institutions okay i'm not one i'm i'm one for for this institution has brought us along this far if you don't like what goes on in the institution where you work to try to make it better i'm not about starting new club you know club is only a bunch of it's not a government it's just a piece of paper with people saying we can do this okay that's fine but even still there has to be a continuity in the institution you understand so all these so so where do we go from here how do we evaluate character i don't you know as a helper as a helper what do you do to show the character of a dog to a judge well i think first of all again you know since since right now you know the grip is that is the defining uh is the manifestation the physical manifestation of the temperament that you want in the projection phase right that's full grip okay but with that being said too this is the difficult part is the judge deciding are the drives balanced between aggression and prey demonstrating through the barking you understand it's the bark dog bark i got a really strong okay and that is so inanimate that's just an opinion okay right uh this is a very this is a yeah and then again you get those dogs and this is and there's nothing wrong with that too the dog as long as he barks hardy in the blind the rest of the outs he stares he's transfixed on the shot never look away okay but again it's it's i mean you're just i don't i don't know what to say ivan i really don't know what to say i i just i just hope you know like uh what like um mike thyson had one very cool say and and i i will butcher it because i am so bad of remembering things but there was something about like you you think you know who you are until you get punched in the face you think you think you have a plan until you get punched in the face and that goes the same like you think you you have courage and everything until you get a stick hit and when we're talking

about stick hit right but when we're talking about stick hit we're not talking about brutality we're not talking about like okay you and i know how it was way back then with the reef stick and when we had bill fields which it was and and he would go we would do one of those like go to your dog remember very sure sure and and then the dog walks out with a kind of like a little bruise from the stick it that was extreme we don't need that for sure we don't need that but how do you test character if you don't twitch it if you don't say hey what are you gonna do now i you know i don't i don't you know i i don't know what to say you know i don't know what to say i i uh i do know um that we have to be careful with what the public sees what we do okay but it's education yeah but even still you know even still it's it's it's you we have because it's hard for people to get past the aspect why do you want it why do you enjoy dogs biting people you know why do you enjoy that what what is your kick in there why do you do that why do you do that what's the deal well because other things you know it's it's it's it's again i think again our judges all i know is this the judges must watch the grip very strong they must watch if you want to get big points you better have some real good power when you hit you must demonstrate and this is another one of my hugest pet peeves arresting behavior the dog is an arrestor it's not a punisher it's not to push in and thrash it's not the dog's decision to be a prosecutor the dog's job is to arrest clamp and hold okay and i'll say something else when you stop breeding dogs you're clamping and holding you are no longer going to have what you have in the german shepherd which is the best family farm dog in the world you're going to get an aggressive idiot that only very few people want okay and you could but anyway well the judges and again then you got to watch your transitions about the barking oh it's i don't know what to say i don't want to i don't want to go renegade i don't think that we should there's enough of that stupid ship floating off in the world by yourself no one of the greatest joys of my life was success on the world level and i still want to do that i do not to have success in topeka kansas okay that's small potatoes for sure all potatoes okay and anytime you start an offshoot club you're just small potatoes even riser and his group is still small potatoes everybody knows that okay you know i mean if you really has aspirations swim with the big boys but there is a possibility that things are really going that far to where

there will be a need for something else to come up well maybe you know because you you know when you think about it like why do we why why do we need a dog with confidence and character and that stable dogs because they're working dogs because they they they're your police dogs they're your military dogs they're they're the dogs that have to do they really have to do something right and if they're all shaken if they're all spooky and acting unpredictably yes and you know ivan this is your point about education okay right anybody who really knows knows that any good dog that you use for any kind of service is ancestors or igp dogs some of the worst dogs i've ever seen have been in police dog kennel breeding programs in germany and in america yeah at military installations ship dogs that they don't even know they're they just think this is cool okay and i've seen it in germany police departments and i've seen in american america in military installations okay and we all know all of us know that the good dogs come from us come from right we do all right but again like we've been discussing the stick hits yikes okay i'm gonna change the subject okay good but let's let's have some fun okay how about give me the japan story okay i can tell you about that one oh it's a good story it's a amazing thing okay in uh 96 or 97 when we won the world championship in finland uh they did a like a documentary about this about the event okay and i got to be in the documentary okay i got 100 points in tracking and plus i'm a weird looking indian guy from america and kind of weird and plus there's a lot of going on at that trial too i mean you want to talk about some cheating tell you about that trial okay we had beat that we were the first time the germans had ever been beaten by a team was two years earlier in in in austria okay so we come to we we come to you know to to finland okay and at the end of the trial guess what we win again so what does rudenauer do the chief judge german guy goes we're gonna have do-overs what are you talking about do-overs when is there do-overs in schudzen he says we're gonna have do-overs so we're gonna have to in the tracking was really hard like 30 40 dogs fun tracking was really hard because we're gonna have do-overs in tracking yeah right so then what does he do he picks like two german guys who had v's in the stadium to do do-overs but then he picks egon to do over who got like 81 82 he got 120 doesn't matter okay so everybody's like what the what's this do-over shit the norway you got to understand the fins don't

like the germans that old stuff is still there okay so once that gets out to these germans are playing this games man the started happening in the stadium they surround the german team they start yelling at the german team egon walks the german team how can you dare treat us like this we are the winners and i'll say this gunther no it was like a henny and if i get there they go german guy they said listen they're making us do this they told us that we don't do this they might kick us out of the club so we're like you're cheating motherfuckers so the tracking judge then says i ain't judging this the trial's over we're not going to have do-overs so and i'll say his name i don't care george shoemaker's judging protection he goes well i'll judge tracking what the so they take these guys out to track again i talked to the track players later they took them to the hardest field they could find and when you're sitting there in the stadium it's coming over you know 81 71 failed people start cheering they start cheering you know we won that thing so anyway there was a documentary about that i was in that it was shown all over europe kind of like pbs remember being in the airport somewhere somebody coming to you oh i started on pbs so anyway year goes by i get an email uh we would like to you to come to japan and do dogs that's all it says and i'm like what does that mean i know what that means so i said listen i'm and i thought it was like doing a seminar or something because i would you know it's on the team and all that shit so i said come to us i'm doing a seminar in los angeles come to this thing so the guy comes mr matsumoto comes to seminar uh that night we go out to dinner very this is fancy japanese hotel in la for any place we go there and like most japanese businessmen matsumoto gets drunk as shit he is drunk as shit so the next day comes out to the seminar and after the seminar we go out to dinner and he looks at me myself mr calderon did i sign anything last night and i said no he goes did i promise you anything last night i said no not really so he says okay so then he tells me what he wants me to do he wants me they make this big dog park amusement park in japan like disneyland but just for animals and it's i mean the place was amazing says he wants me to come for two weeks bring my national champion and show what i do so i said okay i can you know how much you gonna pay me you know that's the bottom line so he goes i'll pay you this much money so okay i can do this so i got

todd west to in this and no there's so many stories oh yeah okay and i got gary park to go over to help me oh did he come with you i didn't know i didn't know gary went with you yeah oh yeah there's a story about that too anyway so and at first i thought this was japanese guys wanted to train dogs but i had no idea what the was okay so then as a few emails go on and on and on and also i like the rumors once the rumors got out that me and see because the world championship was going to be in boston that year first time ever and todd was going to be one of the helpers and todd worked with me and there's all this controversy too so what he works with me he was a great helper and then i'm taking to japan and the word is dean's going to japan with todd to train the japanese team no we get there and i'm always starting to realize that ain't the deal i'm going to this amusement park so when i get there i'm like whoa man the place is way up japan is a very mountainous country it's a it's not anything like you think it's mountains everywhere the place is outside of tokyo way up in the mountains beautiful place beautiful it's like disneyland i mean they've just spent millions and millions of dollars of building this facility there was a tv personality in japan uh he would go all over the world and do things with animals and he was like part of theme guy at this park okay so i get there and i was just supposed to be there for two weeks like heel sit down come biting talk a little bit about german ships i get there and what they've done they've invited like different world different champions and different animal sports from all over the world they invited the sheep herding champions from new zealand they invited the frisbee champions from america with their dog they invited the falcon champions you know birds owls falcons eagles from england and that's all japanese culture they love to that that shows of oh it's amazing it's amazing ivan i you know so before i get there they write me like what do you need so i said well you know i need like a field like i have like a world champ so i get there ivan they built me a stadium like a world champion stadium you know so i'm like okay this is pretty cool okay so i get there and oh there's so many stories i get there and what happens it rains every day like two o'clock and the stadium is just a mud pit you can't do anything so then they build me like this 15 000 seat indoor stadium okay so i'm there for two weeks one of the things that happened is they bought all these dogs from all over the world like noah's ark okay and they had them all

loose in this area and japanese people just like to look at them japan's a different spot yeah so i'm there one day and i watch one of the doldmans go through a fence and just chew on this lady so one thing leads to another dean can you train these dogs and i took one of the big problems dog trained them up after that after that two weeks i was supposed to go to the world championship in boston and they said dean can you stay longer i said how much money you've got and they said we got this much money i said i can't stay that long okay so i stayed and one of the things i did i trained a bunch of their dogs went to the world championship didn't do so good because i had to train my dog poor it was panther in my national i had worked that dog 60 straight days in japan and i flew all the way to boston and got him out of the car out of the plane and the dog was toast he was absolute toast that was my fault but anyway and then when i got back to japan they said you got any other ideas about shows and i said yeah i got a lot of ideas we had dachshund racing not like you see here this dachshund racing i knew in germany they had working dachshund and show dachshunds so i went and got working dachshunds and these little fiends they got dry for what they do like our dogs have you know what i'm saying like go to ground and find rats and shit they're crazy so i got those dachshunds okay and at first i thought okay i'm going to have like a race car like a rabbit they're going to chase it i couldn't find a miniature race car big enough so i made some adjustments and then i got there in the indoor state of they built me a race course for the dachshunds and it dachshund race i mean all my shows we had three times a day we did german shepherd show part of the german shepherd show was gibby my jack russell and the jack russell man that he was a superstar yeah give me one on top of your show in japan they had the gibby show the gibby show was cool he had his own little stadium too if i would do like i would go from one show an hour break to another show anyway before the gibby show the second year the girl teenage girls would be out there with their give me son give me son they'd be chanting give me son give me son because if they say son like your name and son that means they like you in japan so give me and then give me he would do rock and roll video and those are the days of the spice girls okay so give me that one rock and roll video then after that i mean give me what did we do 10 12 15 rock and roll videos okay so he kept learning how to sign autographs

ivan selling okay so then i had this idea the second year i want to sell t-shirts here and i said okay in the boss they said okay dean you can do this so i kept like after the show got my little t-shirt stand there nobody wants to buy my t-shirts i'm like what the hell and then i had the greatest translator that i had a full-time translator her name was saw ore what means beautiful flower in japanese that's her name so wooden so she says dean you need to autograph those t-shirts american champion so i said okay man ivan i would come back to my room and i'd have a pile of money like piles of money and i throw it up in the air and i'd like wiggle all around like i'd make like ten thousand dollars a week selling t-shirts okay so i had all this money and i'm going what the hell i'm going to do with all this money i can't put it in my suitcase what am i going to do all this money i mean like i had stacks of the jeff it was japanese money it's like huge you know like huge money so i i go to the the the the the the trade i go to my boss mr matsumo and i told him because don't probably talk to the treasurer mr panasugi was his name i said mr panasugi my teacher sales out was money yada yada because no problem comes back he has this uh switzerland bank statement and i in japan i could work for three weeks had a leave for 72 hours to my work permit my left cycle i threw to switzerland open up a bank account at the end of the week i give conno sugi all the cash he counted up he said it's a switzerland i'd get a receipt and then after three years in japan not a lot of money but anyway japan uh uh no it was really great uh we had the german shepherd show uh and we would vary that all every year different types like box searches uh we did uh with the dogs are we there i trained a drill team obedience fly ball uh dachshund racing gibby show was really big um uh no it was a great gig i mean uh i really loved entertaining the people the joy on the people's faces i because after the show you could come down like pet all the shepherds and they're good dogs you know i didn't bring no idiots there and then at the third year there after the second year i went and got uh rex from fritz and i came back and i won the qualifier but i couldn't go i had to go back to work and then interesting story i asked haro masuda who was a great man he's a japanese man german shepherd guy who won the world championship won the fci world championship great judge needs to come here more i asked haro haro would come up to my place we had a beautiful place up in the mountains like where they lived it's all hot

and humid and fucked up we it was like switzerland where we lived man plus i had indoor training air conditioning you know tracking everything they come down so i said haro i want to go off to the japanese team he goes dean your grandkilled kids could be here you can't go on the japanese team and i said why it's because you're not japanese and that you need to explore that part about the japanese culture i'm telling you the younger people finally are changing but they have severe racism to all other asian cultures yeah it's very strong tradition yes they call all foreigners gaijins okay so at the park we'd have maybe 15 000 people a day all japanese but every once in a year and they're telling you that maybe down by the horse there's three or four gaijins okay we would go out to dinner i take me and todd and other people who work to me later we'd go sit like at the sushi restaurant nobody was sitting next to us because we were gaijin okay we would go sit on the this we're on the train one time we're sitting talking talking talking blind this friend guy brings in his blind friend sits him down you know guy has a cane we start speaking english guy gets up and goes to the other part of the train they just you gotta understand this you know they just yeah i mean they do not and they're so closed man there's there's so much about the japanese culture that again for me i couldn't stand the way they treated women it's disgusting it's really every train station you get off in japan at night time all the japanese kids they wear uniforms every kid wears a uniform and there's all these japanese school girls running around but they're dressed kind of slutty they're prostitutes but this dressing is what appeals to guys right i mean there's really a lot about the culture the executives in my company okay on friday night they would go to tokyo to the called the ginza district okay where all the bars are and they would go there i mean the whole culture they're the company man the company pays everything and they would get drunk as snot yeah i mean that that's the japan culture there is this one side of it that it's so much about entertainment and like just going going in a rabbit hole you know and people think consumerism is bad here in japan my god it's like buy buy buy more buy more buy and they'll waste money they don't care how was it with like i'm curious and i know we we're talking dogs but like what did you guys eat what did you like as far as like like the places to go to have good times and yeah what happened in japan a lot of companies will have apartment buildings for their employees

okay like a lot of sports teams like professional sports teams you live at the complex you don't have like your own home okay and this place was way up in the mountains so they had apartment buildings for the employees okay and in the apartment building you have a 24-hour cafeteria okay in the park itself they had italian restaurant french restaurant it was a big place also more than that i had what was what my company was maro benai maro benai there's three large seven large corporations that run japan okay if you ain't in one of those corporations you ain't ever going to get if you don't get employed one of those corporations you ain't ship i had a maro benai card i can show that card anywhere in japan and do anything i want anything i show my bar maro benai card i can go anywhere on the train i can go anywhere i want to eat i just can't go to the girly clubs in case you're just right because i'm not japanese but anyway about eating i didn't uh we would just go to tan it was rough because i mean you know it was i'm not uh real quick story uh we're there this is the first time we're there my girlfriend rosie we're eating these salads the restaurant i really like them we got going every night eating these salads all of a sudden rosie starts screaming i said what what i said that's right and what it is they put minnows like these little minnows in the salad but a couple of them were still wiggling okay oh yeah nah i can't do that one uh another another time okay at the at you know at the park they have you know 24 hour you know our cafeteria there and i never ate there were one night i had to eat there was in a rush so i go down there and i and the cook was so happy because i'm getting his food you know what i'm saying i put a fish on my plate and all the stuff i go back to my room to eat it they haven't gutted the fish okay they haven't take the guts out and i mean you can't eat it okay so i'm like okay i can't take it down and throw it away because then the i knew enough because then the cook is going to lose his face yeah he's and i can't do that so i said okay i'm going to flush it down the toilet well i clogged up the toilet anyway that's okay that's okay but no no japan is a different place um um i really enjoyed entertaining the people it was really fun it was really fun the children and stuff it was really fun yeah that's the thing like i i think japan i'm as much as i know and what do i know but there are people that also they like entertainment in a different level in my opinion you know they're also really if you're

like with me they can work hard they can do whatever but then they they wanna check out and and they love americans okay like you'll see american actors like brad pitt does commercials there that you'll never see here okay right they do they do publicity things all the time that you'll never see here i mean uh i was always advertised as american champion and that was like a big deal okay i went down to the the the tokyo giants their best baseball team and gave demonstrations before the baseball game there that was a big deal simply because they had another guy at the same time who was american champion golf balls and he needed golf balls outside the stadium so that was they'd love that kind of stuff they love pizzazz oh my god you go into department stores in japan you get headaches from the noise and uh what's difficult about the japanese what i found though is they're they're quiet people they're closed uh it's difficult for they don't open up very much it's very hard in business with them they they it's very difficult for them to come to agreement on things uh tremendous waste um um i used to have to for instance i used to moro ben a huge corporation i didn't go to these managers meeting what i'm a dog trainer why don't i go to them but you're a dog manager so i'd go to these dog manager meetings these manager meetings they had the head of ge come over famous guy from out from america and he just tongue lashed them all i said man you guys the way you run your businesses you go into your japanese offices you see stacks and stacks of papers you come back and look at that same desk it's the same paper they're stacked up there i mean it's just it's there you know whatever that's amazing yeah it's it's you know they have real good dog sport there they have really good interest they have excellent dog sport haru masuda we talked about ori earlier yes haru eventually bought ori from uh rajay went on to win the wsv exactly the fc i with ori uh ori went on in japan to be an outstanding producer i saw many ori sons in japan it takes two to tango and the mother wasn't so much enough and yet the dog itself was outstanding ori could produce a better dog than himself a perfect example of that was a dog query that he's made in his brother that quarry antwerpa in my opinion probably one of the best if not the best in all aspects i like a physically attractive dog too it was one of the nicest dogs i ever saw he was also he wasn't injured he was first sold to japan then on to taiwan but another one just marvelous man what a cool times i'm gonna switch it off again

we are in italy you're my team you're my team captain i'm about to go and do protection with kenny i'm like oh maybe we should do protection maybe if we shouldn't do training and there is in yeah let's do protection mark put the sleeve on mark put the sleeve on and i'm thinking we just make a just a quick in and out just to warm up mark gives him a bite i make an out my dog's not outing do you remember this yeah i remember that was a the day before i had to show up yeah i remember and i was shocked i'm like what is going on and then mark is like he felt bad because he's thinking am i doing something wrong like i'm gonna ruin the the the thing but then you and i get on the podium and it's a moment that i cannot forget we won the world championship and you were next to me drinking champagne dude you know ivan uh actually do you remember that we went over to that italian club to work your dog remember that and the guy had that real dry italian wine and we had to drink that stuff all the time remember and ivan really i do remember bless your heart you were so nervous bless your heart man fuck you were just like that dog ain't gonna out i know he's gonna out i know you have to mark you like mark you gotta help me you don't want to let go you don't want to let go i remember that was a good one oh he had he had this thing about like this feels so good you know i've been in more than that too both you and dave courier your dogs track great they gave you some hard fucking tracking man that was tough no you guys tracked really i was very impressed man it was about tracking it really was about tracking yes yeah right i know what you're saying especially especially coming out from you because you are one of the few people and this is not this is sincere like you know tracking well and when so there is tea there is you know there are people in the country and have different ideas about how it should be done yeah talk to me about your tracking a little bit because it's it really is yeah you know with really with tracking there's there's two things there's two ways okay first now be real frank i did learn the correct way to put pressure on the dog to make him track where you what i say you must track not because you want to but you must okay i learned that from renhart lentner okay and i'm going to interject something now don't you talk to me about that person america who everything's just so great when he won that fh championship i laid that track so don't talk to me about that okay okay but renhart lentner because he had compassion he knew how to use pressure with compassion okay

with that being said though to me it was just very for instance nowadays the local their big hero and i'm glad it's lars lens and he says lots of good things okay but everybody's like you know what lars says you make these deep footprints you put the food down there well dude we were doing that 40 years ago that ain't new okay um another thing that ranhart taught me excuse me the fritz taught me more once you the dog you first of all this is this old german saying a great tracking dog is a reflection of the work ethic of the handler it's the slowest learning curve you can take a dog and in like three weeks or so four he's going to heal as good he's going to heal the rest of his life it ain't that way in tracking it's it's work the dog a lot of it is you allowing the dog to train it's to learn to train itself once the dog gets to a place and i could talk about that word can track the ability to create problems that the dog can solve this this maybe is an art form i believe this about art i don't believe a monkey with a watercolor is art i believe someone like michelangelo who studied geometry in in in sculpture and got that piece of marble and then make that beautiful statue of david it wasn't random you understand and it's the same thing with anything like we're tracking you have your experience you have your craft but then you use that technique to turn into an art but then later on i think a lot of people they don't use the ball enough to reward the dog in the track they don't make problem solving with the dog where the dog can problem solve they're too afraid also to guess what sometimes you make 85 but if you still got good you know 94 obedience 96 protection you're gonna you're gonna you got a chance okay right you know t says this when they give you those v tracks you get v okay but you got to pass the hard ones too and a lot of people simply don't go and track the dog in a hard field there's i see this i go tracking with people all the time the minute the dog makes a mistake they correct it the dog has no faith in itself to work out a problem none whatsoever none whatsoever okay the dog has to trust you and have faith in you okay um to have the freedom to resolve a problem when the problem comes yes he's not gonna he's not gonna pencil every track okay you're gonna have bad luck sometimes your track is the hard one of the day it's the way it is but man people need to get out there and uh again work those hard tracks too dude i i love talking to you go on no you know and again i'm very happy that large lens is out there

teaching people but he's teaching people a lot of times in dogs what i see things to me are very basic that people don't even know the basics you understand and without those basics they're making jumps ahead and consequently they have huge gaps it might look fantastic within that context but when problems arise dog doesn't understand all of a sudden it falls apart start don't play straight lines all the time then sorry to interrupt you but i i just it just came to me from what you're saying and i'm sure you will go over this but tracking is the face about problem solving yes teaching your dog how to fucking problem solve nobody cares about the hundred points on a moonwalk field right right right right and again this is and again so many people you know uh i'm happy that lars i assume i know this is to bend the tracks start off with a circle get the pace quieter in the dog in other words slower okay uh uh really good impressions in the ground okay don't you know you got to track where you live but understand if you're in california and you're always tracking that visual dirt it's a full scheme that's a full scheme guys that's a full scheme okay when i lived in california always before the world if i could get my dog trapped tracking perfect on a lawn cut grass can't see shit i knew he was ready to rock okay and i still hold those principles okay but also in the beginning i have to say something uh you have to have excellent tracking so the dog can have again success success success if you're tracking like you live in wherever it might be and the tracking is just so hard your dog will track but i don't think you're going to get the type of behavior that we want okay you can train your dog to bite the sleeve and it'll that's no big deal but it's neat you need a helper who understands some things to get the behaviors that we want in gripping and then that's one of the reasons why i live in ohio really i'm i've been that way for a long time i live where it's best for my dogs okay in ohio it's like it lacks a little bit in the dirt tracking we don't have we don't have the bugs here we have the climate is vital the dogs must have winter time the german shepherd dog we don't have the bugs here we don't have the humidity on my farm here ivan i got i can got side my door i got 10 acres and the dirt here is so down south you got that clay soil and that's don't grow that's why they grew what they did back in the day because they couldn't grow anything else okay here the soil is so rich and the grass just gets so thick what i'm saying is i'm giving my dog an opportunity to beginning

to have tremendous success and then later because he's on great conditions his mistakes warrant corrections you understand right yeah right right we can we can talk a little bit now about go about that where the dog must go i went recently to a seminar and i'm very happy they had it it was a doberman seminar and they brought a very experienced doberman trainer from europe and it was really good because he said some very basic things that people need to know okay very basic things and especially in the doberman world best those people's hearts come on okay this is something so many years ago we learned this basic thing you have your good puppy throw the toy out in front in the bushes in the weeds you can't see it and when you say get it you pop that leash forward he grabs that thing you praise him pretty soon that sensation of that forward is no longer negative it's now positive dudes and then later on when you go popping forward that means go it's so simple if you just do that before and this is something that's i mean come on don't you people know how to use toilet paper no more you know i mean come on i don't see people they don't even know to do that and this this european guy was showing people that in the context they're teaching a puppy you know you bite the thing and then you hold it it what i would call it the top of the on the shoulder yeah you know you can use that same thing right there you know but that simple thing people are like wow wow but again and later on okay you can use that same principle with the ball okay uh one of anybody anybody anybody in this nation and by the way guys like i'm gonna ask him in a second about tracking but i mean he knows his thing you know again like i always say the proofs and the points the only one to make 99 points of the wc was t floyd okay if i'm telling you if somebody would spend two or three days with t doing tracking you could learn so much you could learn so much okay i mean truly truly you could learn so much about what he knows okay and the proofs and the points okay okay the proof is in the points this is this is dean calderon's all time so important it really like stop bullshitting stop showing me what you're doing training the proof is in the points right you know and i understand you know man i know a really great trainer in europe i'm not gonna say anything he can't show dogs he just gets too nervous bless his heart that's fine but also if you want to promote your opinions you better have some points that's all i gotta say you know you see it all over facebook i'm happy for you i'm happy for

you i'm happy for you but you know put the sleeve on your hero good for you those are your points that's all yeah yeah yeah okay dean what's your favorite face i know that's a that's a very common question but yeah what is your favorite face in well i still i love to go tracking you know i love to go out in the nature tracking i mean there's been instances in tracking where the dog amazes me it's like how the do you do i could bite that sleep if i could get that dumbbell i can't track you down it's really cool it amazes me and i still love because i'm still physically able to do this i love the beginning protection work with young good young dogs you know teaching barking and gripping and these things i really like that a lot when they when they don't know who they are but they are actually somebody right it's really and to me you know it's really easy to do you know and uh but it's and and also being there's some things i'm very adamant about you're not going to change me okay and some of the beginning stuff and protection work um you're not going to change me um uh and i still find that very much fun and it just uh let me say something right now which is very important to me my new obedience coach to watch this woman train dogs this man it just makes joy in my soul okay how she can can what's the biggest problem we have in obedience maintaining drive state the dog you know he looks all pumped up for a minute or two then all of a sudden come come time second dumbbell third number he's a turkey okay your finishes are slowing down everything's like yeah how do you maintain that drive state okay man to watch her train it's an amazing thing and what is her background is it or some no she's just a pet trainer okay okay and i'm not going to say her name right no no that's i'm trying to get she's she won't just to get her mark was doing a little seminar in pittsburgh a few weeks ago and get her to go to that thing it was hard for her because she's hard for her to get out in front of people you understand but i've been i'm telling you this girl's talent talent and and it's and if you watch her and and then you she's got this year old malama i'm gonna brag but you if i could you just wait you just wait you see this year old malama this girl's got holy toledo go on my facebook page and watch some of the the dog's got a great job to demonstrate not only can she put the dog in this tremendous drive state and obedience that it knows nothing else okay but you can see how we all know that the reward of

gripping and protection is great to the dog or rewards behavior they love this ship okay but what happens it haunts all of us controlling that mad animal and protection okay you watch her go on my facebook page watch her german shepherd dog watch the control she has by using the grip rewards that she uses because they have almost as equal value to the dog as biting the helper you understand you understand i i took a dog a few years ago they couldn't train him in holland big mean motherfucker and i just brought out the ball and every time he did something right and protection i gave him a ball and then pretty soon i offered the lady 25 000 she wouldn't sell him but it's it's it's it's even a better level than this that's all i gotta say uh i like it so much that's so cool to to get excited where where you're at like we always look for this moment yes i've been i'm so it makes me feel good that you can see that because believe me i'm just i'm like busting my buttons man and what's cool too now i mean it's really i like so much about it i i i i i like i just i like i like the way she's training the way the drive state is maintained in the dog the the intellectual approach to it it expands the dog's brain tremendously where every word you say to that dog really means something it really means something then after that it's your control and protection is not going to be such a deal it's not going to be such a problem it's not going to it's not always with the collar and first you know how many times five-year-old dog let's shock him again he won't foots shock him again he still won't run the blinds well let's shock him again and every training session is just a mess i know no no no i'm just that's what i i i i i walk away yeah you know a lot of people again they they jump ahead too soon you know they jump it you know there has to be i i saw a little bit on your facebook about something you wanted to talk to somebody asked somebody what it was about and they said this fellow doesn't think you should correct dogs or something and everybody knows that's kind of stupid you know that's just like stupid you know and especially in what we do because first of all i mean the dog has no right from wrong but there's a whole premise before but this whole does the pack leader never correct the dog i mean come on physically come on of course he does of course he does and this gives him respect the dog is a physical creature he must physically respect you okay he must physically his pack drive and your tough

dogs are going to always make him challenge challenge i got back drive i want to be back leader i want to be back leader and sometimes you got to know you can't push those buttons but on the other hand that dog if you want to talk primitive you can say the dog's afraid of me i don't talk about that my dog respects me because i'm the path leader that's where the art comes that's where the like like somebody that doesn't have the heart to love dogs can go off the rail very quick right yes you know the thing is too about again about you know corrections is technique okay and you have to see it being done you have to see when it's being done it really helps to have someone explain to you when it's done you know i've seen tremendous obedience demonstrated where the trainer has used like no so-called modern techniques you know what i'm saying and just use a lot of pressure and the dog works really well but you know ivan when i train dogs uh really it's not about the trophies and all that it's about me and my dog having fun even back in the day that's why i didn't like a lot of those germans because that to me wasn't fun that's not fun okay that's not fun i want my dog to enjoy itself i put him in the car i made him go there you know come on you know no no no yeah no you're so right like the whole the the the beauty i think of of doing things with the dog is to do something together and to allow the dog to flourish yes and guide them and this is where the corrections come it's not to to go in a war and abuse and whatever it's to say dude that's the wrong way come here right right you the the problem is too is again people they don't they don't understand the because they can't read dogs well they don't understand the level of correction necessary sometimes it's just a verbal no okay sometimes it might be a kick in the ass i don't know bad choice recently a woman came to me and tracking and they use the collar on down in the articles so why did not do i want to track no more what are you doing shocking them with the article you know on the down it it's not that hard the other ways to make them lay down okay but you know in in reality we must always with the new people you know tell them that this is part of it you know that if you don't want to be involved in this i don't see a path where you can get away from no corrections i just don't see that you know and i've had a lot of i mean trial and error that's you know like i i want somebody to tell me that i'm on the wrong path i i please tell me i'm on

the wrong path because i don't want to be there you know you talked about the old days in california i used to have a training big training group at the at the naval hospital in oakland huge group okay i used to go there sometimes yeah remember the lights great baseball field yes anyway so we would train all night there yeah it was great place anyway one of the women in the group was from berkeley you know berkeley hippie all that she brought two council people from berkeley to watch these people were polite but they had a fit they had a fit about the corrections and biting and the whole thing to them it was just like what are you why are you you know they just they just couldn't what the is going on yes and and and like okay for me i don't like to train you know now i don't ever train in front of people in the park maybe just around obedience or something but i'm i used to have a really nice training field in my little town here at the park i didn't like it so much because there's people there all the time you know now i've a training field in my little village there's nobody there nobody can see good job you know good place so back to the question because right now we went through all three phases and they're all important but if you if you really have to pick one which one which one is your your where your heart is well i mean you know protection is easy really it's that's right you know that's not such a big deal i mean right i wish i'll answer it this way okay i wish i was a better obedience trainer okay i wish my dogs i wish i could make my dogs understand sooner and better what i want them to do okay um um um tracking to me no more no longer is like a like a lot of people track is a mystery it's like whoa what is this weird you know to me to me i'm pretty confident about what i want to do and when i want to do it you know and it's very uh uh it really um believe me this is uh takes me it takes me to like reiser says tracking is my religion and it's kind of like that you know it's a really it's a feeling of peacefulness of feeling the dog um and um i mean it's it's i like being and again i just don't go tracking in the morning that's another thing people don't do do wrong i mean i'll go out when it's 100 degrees maybe i don't make a huge track but you're going to track i don't care it's 100 degrees you're going to track um uh you know i mean i've been i love i love to see really good dumbbell work i mean really correct dump you never see it i know never see anybody make three v-rated dumbbells you don't it's hard it's the hardest

training to do it's hard and especially if you want me to tell you what's v not whoever okay dog can't touch you with it i mean first of all no part of that dog's body can go past that dumbbell once that dog touches that dumbbell he can never chew it it can never be chewed okay when you come front he can't and then after that all the way you work it you know no chewing no touching i mean all that and the presentation yes the letting go and and you know and that you rarely ever see it done right you know where the handler presents it right okay and then you and then you get away and the to me this is we talk about the stick hits okay which is not even close to what i'm going to discuss about taking that way it's about being a negative but the negative of judges allowing dogs touching you with the dumbbell demand better training do you know why our dogs have gotten this is and this is this is dean telling you the truth okay you know why our dogs got better i tell you something right now just look at the points early 90s the german national championship over half the dogs make v in protection and you're watching this you're like what the you watch the world champs all these dogs half grips all this making v and protection what is all this stuff okay then they voted in jürgen ritzy as chief as no they voted in hans rudenauer's chief judge in germany everybody freaked out hans rude now he's like a nazi i can do a good hans rudenauer stories too good ones so anyway so what does he do he has ritzy judge protection at the bundeseker that your ritzy judges no dog makes v in protection one dog makes sg makes the highest was 95 points of bitch in protection great story about that a few years later at the world champion especially doug deacon pierre on the direction of of rudenauer and some other key judges the grips have to be like it says the dog must arrest because roger went out and demonstrated like it's supposed to be in 91 and then rudenauer said this is the way it's supposed to be and what i'm trying to say is their great interpretation of the the correct interpretation of what the what the judge what the rules are is why we have the quality and the protection work we have now okay and i went up to doug deacon and pierre 20 years ago knocked on their table and said thank you for your correct evaluations the protection phase because the protection phase we discussed it is a manifestation of temperament it's right there in front of you man i tell you like some of the the protection phase we discussed it's right there in front of you and uh and just like you i mean i've

done it for so long i've had 98 under rudenauer i've had 93 with on obedience with jürgen ritzy and like those points matter to me you know yeah yeah real quick story about rudenauer fci championship in uh whatever year it was oh three oh four okay me and t were on the team during my shepherd dogs after saturday me and t are first and second t's first 196 i'm second 99 95. we are the kings we go to the banquet we're walking around and it's like man these american dudes are going to win this shit they're doing them you're not even going to be close okay next day we got to do protection and me and t both know rudenauer's out there and me and t look at each other go yeah let's just see what happens tomorrow i got an idt got 82 but anyway that's okay and then peter jacobs dog ran all over the stadium he got 96 but that's okay because he's german but that's right that's okay anyway but i'll tell you another good story about rudenauer's long story rudenauer's wife erica who just passed away beautiful woman beautiful lovely woman i had a dog named ollie who won the bundesieger about two or three weeks before the bundesieger they trained with helmet koning okay i was there and ollie would come in and punch in the blind and punch in the blind and punch in the blind helmet looks at me gives me the sleeve gives me the stick ollie comes around the blind i put the stick on that mother's head not just once not just twice i backed his ass out of that blind rudenauer almost comes out of his shoes at me okay so a little bit of cussing a little bit of screaming a little bit of rudenauer grabbing my shirt okay so okay fine three weeks later or two weeks later ollie wins the bundesieger 97 in protection those days i did i get a telegram from rudenauer dean thank you very much cleaning up our dog in the blind that was a good that was a good yeah sometimes it's a it's a hard calls to make and and you know the thing about rudenauer really what modern people need to understand is that rudenauer was one of the keys to clean up our dog sport in the early 90s the points were ridiculous they're giving the points away it was stupid it was stupid okay it was really bad and everybody knew this there were so many and everything not just in protection and everything and rudenauer was rudenauer ritzy and he got pierre got some international guys behind him and said no we're going to judge this right and then believe me from what they did their evaluations because people judged they breed to what you have to win with that i'm telling you that's why we have what we have no

no no for sure that that's this type of judging raises the criteria yeah for us to do better exactly and that's why i talk about the judging in the dumbbells you know right to make people better it's easy in the old days to teach fronts we put the prong collar on the dog and we jam him into our stomach and give him a piece of food then the dog would learn real quick if i ran to your stomach that's a safe place okay but that was he's not to touch you you got to be a better dog trainer than that okay got to be a better to a better way a more let's even say this word a more humane way to do it right the dog okay and again you know so it is amazing to me that whoever i don't i don't know maybe you know how the whole shoot's going points came about but the all points were very very very very good you know because we all recognize already way before everything that the dumbbell the retrieve is such a complex exercise and that's why it has so many points the old the old style long attack where you go run away and come back the attack out of the blind like there were there were some really like like good tests for for training and also the ability of the genetic predisposition of dogs like this is and i don't know how should come came about appreciating those moments right you know again um i love history okay and culture and it's amazing to me about how this developed out of the german culture you know really amazing um the discipline of the sport you know uh when you read the beginning books about uh this was not a sport uh for your poor person okay you couldn't afford to feed your dog but such your family okay this was a sport more for well-to-do people let's not talk about police like that's just sport okay um um i always say this okay if it wasn't for hitler would all been germans okay the germans really their culture it really has a root of really good discipline a really good of step-by-step ship you know structure this is this this is this and then you do this you can't do this unless you do this uh if uh it it it amazes you when you go to germany how clean it is you know what i'm saying those type of things you know um uh and and again how this developed and when you read um if you read some train there's a very interesting video and you still can find it it's like from 36 37 at the german shepherd seeger show in germany the police come out and they're doing obedience at the same time protection is going on and this like amazed everybody you know and it it just shows you that maybe there's not really that much new under sun but again and it's also back to you about the points

to me i can really see how those points can illustrate different aspects of the dog's temperament right right you know um the the the healing and the field exercise what i mean by feel sit down and stand in motion those show the bill ability the trainability the eagerness of the dog wanting to work okay it shows this reflexes as natural reflexes okay this is why you have to be this is what i like so much is finding those judge understand that extreme healing with the nose in the air underneath your armpit that can also be a press drive state in other words that was made with severe electric collar you understand and that dog is too stressed in that position it's very difficult to describe to describe it here it's easier to be seen there was a particular dog at the qualifier and this was to me was one of the high points of the judge of that judge dice judging is him making that example of this dog everybody thought it was so impressive no no no no no no no he was pressed into that state yeah to the e-collar to the e-collar okay there was no no but i forgot what we were talking i'm sorry what were we oh no no no it's it's very and then again the dumbbells sure the dog has natural retrieving instinct okay but again that also shows the dog's ability to be molded all of our sport every all of our sport we have instincts that we mold into disciplined behaviors and we must have dogs that have that kind of training level to be able to be molded and trained you just want some mad fucking beast what's he going to do for you nothing okay on the other hand you don't want a wimp who can't take the stress of training right they can't they can't take the structure a lot of dogs uh it's a lot easier for let them have a little bit crooked fronts let them bump you let them be a little bit sloppy you make them tight oh lord i don't want to be tight i can't be tight i can't concentrate like that that makes my that stresses me to have that level of concentration yeah there is that thing about the sport that i really like it's also recognizing your ability recognizing who is your dog and knowing like knowing very well the points so you can play that chess game yes yes you know yes and you know people have to understand nobody ever gets 300 points in this sport nobody ever does and that's cool okay so when you have you know your dog's limits and you know you've attained that hey you know like back in the day when i went to the nationals i didn't ever i don't want to i wanted to make a v that's what i wanted was a v overall you know but i would always figure i mean come on dean you're going to make the

end of track you my point was always obedience that's where it was my weak place that's where i had to keep up okay but i knew my dog's limits you know i didn't live in a fantasy world about what my my last uh my last really good dog my dogman keeper i knew what he was you know i mean he was uh he was it was like cheating it was like a golden retriever you know what i'm saying and but i knew his limits i knew he in and protection okay that dog never made v in protection never i showed him 10 times 10 different fields 10 different helpers 10 different judges you always made over 90 okay he didn't have that innate fighting drive kind of that a doberman needs to have okay and so consequently i got out of him what i think i attained what i think was probably the highest level i could with him there okay and so that was you know to me to me believe me dogs is about my success and what i think i don't need no judge to tell me what i'm doing those days are gone okay i know what i did it feels good okay you say i'm a good did a good job that feels good but i know what i did okay and i'm competing against what i think i can attain with my dog really that's the deal that's so well said it's it's you know you're not i mean sure back in the day when i was young i used to love to beat the germans and especially i had a hard-on about those guys from that other place in america i just used to love to snoop that's another day another story but no no it's about your you know that's what's so great about your dog too you're such a team you know it's it's anyway no it's really like uh it's it's kind of like a fighter like a boxer or whatever you know like you you don't want to push him to a break point that's a that's a huge problem always with training this is like probably the number one problem for everybody that wants to accomplish very high goals i'll tell you a story oh when we when we tied at the nationals and you beat me because you had higher protection okay the day before in training we'd go out to train okay and my rex he was kind of crazy kind of crazy and i didn't really trust him all this much okay so he went and punched in the blind t's doing the helper work t goes dean come in again i'm gonna club him i don't know t i don't know man i'm on the grip i don't know i don't know i know you should do this and go do it we need to club it you know t is that's it all right so t does what i say you don't club him comes in the blind and national punches the helper and you win so yes but again i said that because about limits and stuff you know and um uh if one of my weak points

believe me all my friends will tell me this that sometimes dean is uh too soft on the dogs is maybe a word or or maybe doesn't trust them maybe as much as it should as maybe another word okay because well one thing about you over the years man you you you appreciate the dog you have in the moment like you love doing the things you love with the dog with the moment and you know who that dog is so you're very careful about not breaking that dog yeah yeah you know they don't gold they don't gold you know and and truly especially our quality animals they are trying the best they can yeah trying the best they can okay and it's just our inability to communicate to them what we want them to do all right um um you know especially in our german shepherd dogs that's the breed i know a little bit about the other breeds i've just trained them i can talk minutely about them but most of our good german shepherds are medium to medium high dogs okay that through good obedience where the dog trusts you of course the dog has natural instincts good athletic you have a good helper who can take that like you discussed that boundary farther and farther and farther consequently you have a bit of a dog a dog who's fun and easy to train okay um when and everybody i'm gonna say one thing to you young people don't be so locked and my dog is so tough and my dog is this and my dog is that okay my lash competition dog ivan remembers this dog my verde you couldn't beat him in the track and obedience he'll stomp your ass i couldn't control that motherfucker in protection okay and i got sick of it last time i showed that dog in the regionals in california i got 99 96 81 and that 81 was a gift and i just got tired of and fritz beeler told me when i bought him his mother was rex's mother was rex's sister fritz told me dean this dog is too crazy you don't want him he's got a screw loose and and and and i mean i just it was just a fight all the time in protection the other two phases i could do it naked but no and that's you don't want dogs like that right away if you test a dog and he's got a shitty grip don't take it don't take it verity was like that mark which is right now he'd be he'd be laughing and punching me just the other day when mark worked by dober for the first time and he gives it a grip and he goes well damn i wish dope i wish verde grip like that oh i love it i love it i want to give your message to the young trainers because you know like guys guys like like today they start to they they get i i feel like there's so many

young people that are going in and they want to do their best but they're getting lost of trying to to who do i learn from what can i how much i can push my dog you know like all these things that are so important right right you know first of all you know young person um it's it's it's a tough game okay because first of all you have to have an element of trust for people at the club before you go to a club i would go to different clubs and just look and just watch also too um one thing about me in my life i've never i'm blunt and i will come right to your face and tell you what i think ask them this question if i train with you can i go train with somebody else and if they say no i'd leave i'd leave nobody you know there's more than one good brain surgeon in this world there's more than one good trainer okay go to seminars don't always volunteer your dog but watch if you learn something you don't like hey you learn something but if you don't go you ain't gonna learn with that being said though you have to have a path you have to have a path that you try to stay on you just can't go to a seminar and say oh i'm just gonna do this new thing i learned yeah because there is the the seminar hopping type of person right you've got you gotta have you gotta have some faith in your training director his path okay um i think a lot of clubs could do a much better job in structure as far as training is concerned i go some places i don't rarely do seminars anymore but i go some places and i see what happens and i just man what what what what are you doing why what there's no structure here people the only way you get a title is it's like when i was young the only way i got a title because i was crazy like i'm gonna do this shit there was nobody to teach me you understand i just got a book and started yanking and and and there needs to be better structure at the clubs for that there needs to be more regional training seminars to try to get people out of those jim jones situations you know jim jones the guy drink my kool-aid don't go anywhere else to break that move also to teach people i'm the last one to say this because i'm not good to play with others but to teach a community spirit on the local level first starts on the local level you understand within our region okay that we have this q there needs to be more regional work days one thing we used to have in california we would have something called the shuts in one championship okay and like one dog would do tracking one dog would do obedience one dog would do protection should we have and that way like your old dog could track

or maybe you just want to do obedience with your dog but you get people out there having fun okay we should have protection tournaments in california raise money for the team at night time we'd have 50 dogs out there you know and and and and a leadership is taught from the top the example is taught from the top you just don't sit there and go you preach you say i don't understand why usa has no mission statement when you open up the magazine i've been saying this for 30 years what is our mission statement with these dogs in america what is our purpose being here finally usa is biting the bullet a little bit about some things like registering and these things but let me get back to your stuff go to seminars okay don't have a closed mind okay um uh don't be there's this is one of the first things that renhart lintner ever said to me there's no dumb questions there's only dumb answers so don't be afraid to answer no questions there's only dumb if somebody insults you because you answer a question he's an asshole you understand there's another saying in germany he's a dog guy you help him what does that mean you share all the information you have listen this is the only thing i know to do so sometimes you got to pay me money for me to open my mouth but i'll run my mouth for free all the time okay if he's a dog guy you help him okay you help him all right yeah um every guy every every person in the sport go to the fucking gym and stop being so fat jesus christ get your this is a sport this is a sport try to lose some weight okay don't talk to me about your thyroid christ almighty and you helpers who are tired after two dogs come on ivan you saw me when i was young i could work 50 dogs every day okay you want way more than 50 dogs you know come on don't tell me you're tired don't tell me that you know but again um go to seminars there's you know this is it is very difficult today though you know like with social media and you watch this little clips from some super work and it can get confusing yes you know it's it's you know again i don't watch videos and i've never you know i don't do that stuff you know i just live this quiet life on my farm but uh it's if you could you know somebody you find a training program you like that training program online you see other students who've taken that training program who there's proof is in front of your eyeballs that's a good place for you okay so there's because there's continuity there okay but also too because it's competitive go to seminar see there's something to

learn one thing in the beginning about the protection phase i want only one helper to develop my dog the helper trains my dog in the beginning okay he reads the dog i have one helper work my dog once my dog shows such consistent level of what i want with that helper then i might interject another helper not to mention when i have a super dog there's something called safety not any tom dick and harry is going to have it's going to be catching my dog on that long one okay um another thing people you want you want to and i'll be very conceited i've won tracking three times at the world i don't know how many times the nationals i've won tracking because when i i won't tonight but tomorrow i'm going to track my dog three times okay you got to work you got to work anything that in life is great is hard work if it's not hard work it's not great it's not great it's not great only through hard work is their greatness and and and you know guys uh one quick thought the success is not you the success is that dog the trust he has in you okay the relationship you have the faith you know i i'm not a i'm not a parent i don't have a kid you know but it must be an amazing feeling when that child looks at you and trusts you and has faith in you and knows that their parents could never do no harm and their parents are always going to trust them and it must be even on a bigger level with a dog even a bigger level so you know you think about that too okay and also too don't be afraid to question the judge if he won't answer you don't there's no dumb questions there's only dumb answers good ones very good ones okay because when we i mean when we go training and we do all that stuff at the end of the day you go back home and there is your dog hanging out with you yeah and that's what's about you know also your young people don't be collecting dogs don't have a bunch of dogs man don't do that i know it's don't puppies are cute don't do that okay don't get trapped caught in that trap us in three years now we got five dogs no no no also too once the dog's about three or four thinking about getting a new one because he could break real quick so that happens too something with the seminars i i just thought about you know like like you have to stick through the whole seminar don't make judgment what happens in the first day pay attention and see what happens at the end yes you know i can you make a really good point there and again the seminar that i just went to i'm i i should have stuck around i left after the first day

because it was just kind of dull to me okay and that was wrong because at that point i had to realize who i was in this world and i was showing a little bit of disrespect you understand okay and what you said is vital because again it if you learn one thing and that one thing might come in the last five minutes but also too if you start to then you'll start to hopefully see some continuity in the presentation okay that it does make sense that these things you know you know what did gofrey dildo i used to say something he was really cute he goes what did he say you do that enough you'll eventually do it but it's kind of like that you know it's just but again by uh go have an open mind stay for the whole thing like ivan said ask questions okay uh and and also too there can't be 10 hours of chalkboard right you got to get out you got to get out there and do something okay it's it's a like any other sport it's a monkey see monkey do you know we mentioned roger schohars i pronounced his name really wrong from belgium great doctrine i mean one of the greatest in the world but he don't talk so much about dog training but you watch him train his dog holy toledo you know or watch him do helper work when he was a young man wow he can't talk so much about it okay that's where someone like riser he'll worry out but that's his business you know but uh you got to see it yes man what a conversation i've been looking forward to this for so long you know ivan we've we've really never sat and talked like this for a great length of time you know i just want to tell you i'm gonna you you provide such a good example for people in this world okay about what our dog sport can be how enjoyable it can be okay also to um it's it's just it's just and and and you this is my impression that you try to present people with programs that's within their capabilities okay for instance i talk about my new obedience trainer an older person who wasn't very physical couldn't do it somebody who was like in a wheelchair maybe they couldn't do a lot of that shoot okay um but again there has to be a program that's broad that a lot of people can do not just you know you know and that's a good and then once you have that broad base then you can venture out into you know you understand and get a little bit more here a little bit more there a little bit more here you know it's like when people come people come to me dean i want to make the world championship well let's try for a beat let's do a b first you know and then we can talk about something else that's a whole other conversation as you keep saying like

like winning a championship and winning two or winning four man it's a whole level of insanity what you know this you get on top of that podium and you see you've never seen before right i mean all of a sudden you know it's it's it's easy for us to talk like we're something but i mean it's back in the day okay it spooked to me it spooked to me so bad i didn't trust nobody especially women you know a bunch of groupies you know i didn't trust nobody everybody wanted to they don't want to be my friend because of dean calderon that was the hard part for me too you know like i thought i'm surrounded by friends all the time yeah you know yeah i would get people say yeah i trained with dean i don't even know your name yeah you know and that it really and then you get you get you know you get you probably happened in your life where you get people a little bit off centered about this you know and start i mean i was punched out at the world championship if you remember that store i was walking in boston some fool comes and knocks my lights out because he thought his wife he thinks i wanted to know something my you know his wife was whatever that's her business not mine but this and this is just one of many things that's happened to me you know i mean it really back in the day i mean i can remember especially t and i i mean i can remember leaving and saying we're going to train often there's this caravan of cars following us i can remember coming out of my hotel room and there's six or seven strangers strangers strangers that i don't know and and and oh no no you know again about winning championships okay uh you get a really it's good to win one but the real proof is when you win multi with different dogs that's really the proof right really really really really really you things start to happen and it's probably in any endeavor in life when you're a winner but uh it's very important to never remember uh always remember your stinks in the next i won the nationals with panther and flunk protection of the world okay so you know but again you get out there and things happen and you start to see things people start to treat you ways that are just you know i i really feel sorry for some famous people i've read interviews with so many of them and they just they get to the place where they can't trust anybody they just can't because they don't know anybody who really likes them it becomes it becomes confusing at the top for sure you know back for sure in the old days when i was a young man and

i don't care because i didn't trust women because i mean they only they were just liked me because i was dean the dog trainer do you really know who dean is you know it's okay for sex and everything you're a guy great super you know that's easy you know there's dog groupies but man for your emotions you know for really ticks inside your heart you know the only reason you like me is because that what you see out there yeah and and and imagine if something happens to you and you cannot do more help or work yes oh tell me about it who is this guy yes yes yes i mean personal story just like that pop-up um my ex-wife she married me because she was a groupie but once she found out that this doesn't really mean that much to me and then once we got to ohio my carla i think i just want to sit here in this house and just off all of a sudden there was no more pizzazz no more glory no more this no more that oh okay you know okay the human nature just comes up immediately yeah you know which is a and maybe we we can end it here because we can talk forever i can talk to you i can talk to you forever it's like seven o'clock anyway go ahead alvin the one like we were at the podium when i when i won with amali noah the german chepel championship and i remember it and i tell this to to anybody i was at the podium i was standing on the top and you look at me and you're like you stay here don't walk out just stay here it's your time you don't remember this but that meant so much because it really did man you know well you know i've been uh i don't remember the moment but you know you were the winner you stay there yes your place yes it's your time the winner yes it's your time it's your winner you soak the up yes i think you don't feel shy you don't feel anything it it's your time yes i think this when we die okay i think if you die and you're a good person you're just going to relive all the good moments and all the people you love and all your experiences will be there again and again and again for eternity if you're a dickhead though but i really i hope you know uh death is another issue but i hope this is what's the end for us you know that we do just relive our beautiful experiences and you know ivan uh i think uh for myself and uh you know one of the greatest rewards that i have from dog sport is i've maybe caused you know some other people to be happy to you know some other people to have i mean my god you know like the feeling you described i've had those feelings too you know um um i've had feelings and training that have equaled

to the accomplishment feelings that i've had in this trials you know exactly just breakthroughs and training you know what i'm saying i mean it's it's it's actually those are even more special moments but those are more intimate kind of moments yeah yeah i know what you're saying i i know i know i know yeah again i mean let's let's let's get going you know again i'm telling you uh i can't wait to see you interview t t is just i can't tell you enough this guy is special beyond belief he is just you and you talk about proofing the points okay yes talk about proofing the points okay um i can tell you who's the only guy to breed his own dog who in the nationals t flow i mean you want to talk about other you know the guy is unique as unique look what he did with his children look what yes yes and then from the and from where everything was going and and how everybody was looking down on him it it's so you know you know you know i think fuck all right then you know good for you dude you know t t um he's a strong man okay he's a strong man look what he did his wife is amazing fuck joy look at those children and how they turned out and and i mean the the the stuff that he had to go through in dog sport exactly nobody even has an idea what's up what's that mean work i'm not gonna one last thing t and i once were selected t was gonna do the front half and i was gonna do the backhand at the nationals we beat out all the f health tryouts we beat all the local favorites okay the that went on after that the that went on after that and i'm telling you it wasn't because it was dean cowderon and t floyd human beings right it had to do with the color of our skin yes and if peter jacob was here he could tell you some of the he's too old now but he could tell you some of the that went on and t could tell you the same okay uh all i got is that's not relevant what's relevant is t's absolute character his proof in the points his radiance is is is wanting to help and i think your idea me t and you oh you guys are super special to me would be awesome oh this is happening this is absolutely happening and we're doing it not like this we're doing it in person yeah it would be awesome be awesome okay i mean well listen thank you so much sir i want to say again you are such an ambassador for our sport i mean bless you and bless all that you do for us thank you my friend i hope i hope everybody is got a little excited about training dogs and what it is about because of that conversation thank you my friend it Thank you.

Thank you.