말리누아 번식, 선발 및 발달

um that everybody had no idea what they are and the way they you know people that are in dog sports the way they will describe them when they haven't seen them before they would be like oh it looks like a mut but it's not really a mut because you kind of see the face and you see the expression and you know that there is something else but it's it was a big puzzle for a long time and that's kind of when I started Um, people didn't know. I didn't know what malinoa is. I didn't know how to pronounce it. Like in in Dutch it's a melar. In French is a malinoa. Um, because of malinoa. That's what really made me move to Belgium and you know being all this crazy and running away from communist countries and all this stuff that I don't want to bore you with right now. Um, but I started with kind of Russian style because it was a communist time in in Bulgaria training dogs, military stuff. And eventually when I moved to Belgium, it was all malas and Belgian ring. Um, IGP shoots one at that time wasn't really what was interesting to me. I didn't know much about it. And since I was really kind of cracking the door open to find out what Malininoas are, it was all about Belgian ring. And going to Belgium, you had all sorts of different clubs. At that time, dog sports were super super popular. Um and yeah, so where do I go? I hope you have your prepared your top Mali questions. Um, but I want to talk about selection and breeding and how to how to pick a puppy and what to do with a puppy and and things like that. So, um, it was it was at the time very like I if I I give you some story how I got my first Malino uh and basically became really good friends with a lot of breeders in in Belgium. But most importantly um Luke Vance the Brush who was the owner and still is the owner and he still has occasional leaders of puppies under the name the Dopa. So all of you if you are not familiar with that kennel name and you go after the fifth six generations back in your pedigree you most likely going to find some of those dogs. Um it's not the only kennel but this was the kennel that kind of basically made the malinoa popular across Europe at the time. I remember me being living in Belgium right at the time when Monduring was forming and there were few interesting meetings and

one was in Tora Belgium and you know there was like French and Belgium and Dutch guys and some German and trying to fight it out and sort it out how to make that ultimate program that maybe we take all the cool elements from different programs and create one and call it monitoring. And it didn't quite happen that way cuz there was a lot of, you know, everybody wants to pull the the rug their way. Um, but anyway, we have Murine now. Um, I first started to be really intrigued by breeding with people that were doing Belgian ring. And back then, what was interesting and what I've learned and what I've kept into my practice today. And I guess before I even go there, man, I have so many things to talk about that I'm going to just be jumping all over the place. But why I am somebody that can talk about the breed with with different level of understanding and knowledge. Um I have been breeding since 1989. like there were few breedings that were not even registered with American Canel Club. But today before the call, I went to my AKC AKC breeder uh um login and and went through all my charts and basically I have bred about I think it was 165 liters up to now 165 liters. Now if you give and take sometimes there are four puppies sometimes there are 14 puppies in a year but let's say average of eight puppies that means that I have bred around 1,300 puppies or something like that and that's insane. That's a lot a lot of experience and that's kind of what I want to share with you because today it's quite often especially with social media and everybody wants to you know um contribute which is not a bad thing but sometimes there is not enough knowledge and sometimes it really goes sideways. Um yeah, having bread, 200 and something copies, it's it's a insane number when I think about it and I haven't really divided it in like different, you know, different periods of my lifespan. We, you know, sometimes we will have three, four breedings per year, sometimes less, sometimes a little more depending on everything. But basically what is really interesting is that we have uh um we have this this really really crazy experience and and

um hopefully I can give you my take on what is a you know how I do things and how I can help you with breeding selecting training malinas because they are definitely a little bit different dogs than than other breeds. Every breed has their own little quirks and and malininoas are definitely a special dog. They can have very very very incredible traits, but often they can backfire. And also I find that with time and the more popularity the breed gains, people expectations are becoming very strange. Uh, and people don't quite like like it's becoming so twisted that you know, trainers and pet owners want a malino and and sometimes I'm like, why do you you just really don't need malino in your life? But anyway, um where where I want to go with there is of course we have show lines and we have working lines. We are talking today about working lines. Malenos Malininoas is almost everywhere when you when you mention the breed it's understood that we're talking about working dogs. Of course they are show people that are doing uh confirmation and it's much more important for them. uh but these are pockets of small numbers compared to the true dieards like me and and hopefully most of you that are listening here. So um I want to go with first with how how I choose dogs in my program. something um something interesting about this that's kind of weird that I just have to talk and I'm trying to to see messages but I'm going to stay focused before I start to answer your questions. Um selecting dogs for breeding, that's really where it starts. And how do you select dogs for breeding? And there is many different theories and what should the male be, what should the female be, what the age is. Um, so that's kind of where I want to go. And when you think of like like again I I I go so far back and the as far back as I go there is still I mean the the breed is from a long time. So um it's really worth knowing the history of the breed and it has very interesting timeline and some very sketch pedigree at times and there was a reason for that. Like very often there would be a

pedigree but then you would talk to a breeder and they will kind of draw you know who the father and who the grandfather and give you the combination on a little piece of paper if they trusted you. So there is that interesting part. This is way before we can do DNA tests and so on. Um, but it's very interesting part of the history of the Malinoa and and probably it's what also still keeps the breed as good as it is today. Um, there are few ways to select a dog. One would be understanding the genetics. Understanding what is the power of genetics, how much that can influence the breeding. Another one, probably the more popular today, is watching a famous dog, a dog that just became the champion or had an amazing protection and working dog showed and something like that and everybody's like, "Oh, this is the dog." um that can help but a lot of times can be very dangerous way to select who you should choose for breeding. Um as I said genetics, bloodlines very very important and and understanding what you want to bring in the breed. Um when so so I can tell you different kennels can kennel names right across the world and every once in a while there would be a kennel name that's going to pop up and it will be very very famous for quite some time quite some time let's say five six years or basically the lifespan of a stud dog. And then what happens is that kennel loses that genetic makeup that was what the kennel was about. And how does that happen is very interesting because you as a breeder you have to understand that you have maybe you got lucky or maybe you did your homework but you started you figured it out that there is a male that you have that is really producing very nice dogs whatever that means to you. and it's producing nice dog pretty much with any female you put it on. That's a a true stud dog. Now, as a breeder, one of the hardest thing is to learn how to maintain that bloodline and not lose it. And as I said, kennels come and go and they become very popular simply because there is this one dog that produces nice dogs for few years.

But then what happens is a son or a daughter of that dog goes somewhere else and they start producing. So the line, if you want to think of it that way, doesn't really get lost and and disappear. It just moves somebody else's canel. And now there is another famous canel. And now they're famous for some years. And if they are not successful to maintain what they are producing then it moves again and again and again. So that's really what happens and this is why you will see a lot of different kennels across Europe or anywhere really in the world that will be everybody would know them for certain period of time and then give it two or three generations and there is some cool dogs way back in the pedigree and nobody ever hears about this kennel again. And it's not that they don't breed or or um I mean sometimes they just go out of breeding simply because it's not the same anymore. They lose the the genetics. So the interesting part and probably the art of of breeding and that most likely goes with any breed. Uh but it is about recognizing what you have as a producer and try to keep it in your kennel. try to maintain these bloodlines. Sometimes it gets very difficult but now it's very easy comparing to late 80s or early 90s or even early 2000s. Now collecting and keeping frozen cement from dogs is it's very very easy. And one of the things that I do is I try to follow the bloodlines that I have and I never really lose them or I try not to lose them. Um there was a a really special dog and I will talk to you about bunch of dogs of mine uh if that will be of interest. But I had a dog that I uh got from Belgium in in I think it was 2004. It was under Turkos Van Duetto. Uh Johan Beoisen was the breeder of the dog and goes back to Luke Vance the brushes dog and so on. Um but that dog um was a very very very cool dog as far as breeding goes. I collected them. I collected them so much because I knew what I have. And unfortunately, I was, you know, selling cement to to friends or not even friends, anybody that wanted to breed to simply because he was, you know, uh I I've collected quite a bit and it was not problem for me. Um, but when was time for me to breed and I tried to breed them once, the one female, then another female, and I think

I tried four times artificially, and none of the females were taken. And it was to find out that basically the the frozen semen got towed. It just went to waste. And this can happen that that can happen very easy like some freezer you know the electricity goes off the generator doesn't kick in you give it couple of hours and and you have the problem that I'm talking about. So long after that dog was gone is when I really felt that he died for me. The story and what I'm trying to tell you is if you decide to ever do frozen semen, keep it in two separate banks. Don't put all of your semen in one storage. That's the the lesson that I learned and hopefully you guys uh do the same thing. It is very very very important that if you have a special dog and you want to really make sure that for sure you're maintaining and you have that cement, you need to put it into separate places for storage. Um, now I'm talking so much that my cigar is going out. I'm going to just to light this up and I'm going to tell you about the the actual selection a little bit interesting stuff. So how do I and how do not just me I mean of course I've I have this ages of experience and and going to trial and error but I also listen and pay attention especially when I was first starting like this early years of me living in Belgium was there that was just priceless for me um that I didn't even appreciate at the time because I was so much more into training than breeding. However, all that knowledge just kept being stored and coming back to me. And in Belgium, the way they think about breeding, I I don't even know how it is now because it's again it's very different. But the old school, the really the older generation like much older than me and it was passed on and on. The the idea was to always think of two different strings, two different bloodlines, two different not blood lines but two different types of dogs. And you can call the one line or the one type of dog that is more primitive type and the other one is more the kind of trainable type.

So when I talking about primitive type, this is the, you know, the dog that you ask him to heal and they're like, "Okay, I'm healing." You know, it's kind of doing some bulldozer like really, but they don't get overly excited about it, but when it's time to bite, they just have this monster grips with a lot of power, like crunching power. No matter how many gauntlets and stuff you're going to put on, you still feel very uncomfortable if one of these monsters gets you. But they are not the kind of dog that makes points in in pretty much in any program, but it's a very very important type of dog. Then you have the more trainable dog and you can for the lack of better way to explain it, you can compare them more towards like the border collie types. You know, they're very willing, very in tuned and very eager to please and do and whatever, which is totally different to the one that I just talked to you about, right? So, as a breeder, if you want to stay in this long and and do well, you have to figure it out what type of dogs you have. And typically, you would breed these two types. You put them together and then you will have something really nice. What happens is then that third type coming out of the two gets bred to another third type and you keep going up that pyramid. And what will happen is you're most likely going to lose either the the primitive actually more often you will lose that primitive type the the more I wouldn't say stubborn dogs because they're not stubborn but they're just very um self-confident dominant and and independent in some ways. It's not that they're not loving dogs and not affectionate. They're just they have a little bit mind on their own. And if you breed only the trainable dogs or the third type to a trainable dog, eventually what happens is you end up with the nervy type of malina that everybody has seen at some point. And you know we we think that oh it's a when we breed really good one to really good one to really good one it's going to keep getting better and and that's not how genetics work and that's not how uh you will sustain uh uh your kennel if you don't have it. You have to know what you're looking for and you have to find it elsewhere to bring it back and maintain it. As I said like there is there is times when you a breeder will have a very good blood and then they will lose it. Now it moved to somebody else and somebody else and if you're still a smart breeder you can still go back and catch it and bring it back to you. Um, but you need to know what to look for. There were times when

it was like in the '9s when the the Germans uh designed the Belgian the Malina curon test and they made a mistake you know they they always very methodical and it's like all data collection it's like okay there is a four and a five and you know the dogs will do certain things and they will get different grades and and they basically what they were doing is selecting the top the peak to another one and another one and going up the pyramid and eventually created this really unstable dogs. And it took them quite some time to realize and come back and and try to balance this out again. Another thing that I learned that was a hard one, it was the female like we, you know, like if you think of German shepherds or you think of any breeder and stuff, oh, what is the female? What can she do? What title she has? What what is she capable? And I remember the the breeders at the time in Belgium, they'll be like, "She doesn't bite, but she's a good mom and she comes from this dog and this dog and this dog." And what was cool about it, these dogs were like, you know, they just had a first name. They didn't even have kennel names. And When when I was studying, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to get into this." And again, I had some really good friends, breeders, and they're like, "You should take that female." And I'm like, "Well, let me see her. What can she do?" And they're like, "It's not about what she can do. It's about what's inside. It's what she carries and what she's going to produce." And that was a hard one. That was a a hard one, but it was a super important lesson. It's not that it's always the case. That's another thing. You know, you can you can have females that don't bite and they will make shitty puppies and you know, but that's kind of where the knowledge comes, right? However, the breeding of malininoas, it's really that interesting game of understanding the two types, understanding what happens between the two types and that third type. Maybe sometimes you can keep combining, but eventually you need to get back to origin. And very often when you know the lines, uh, female doesn't necessarily have to be amazing as far as working ability. I know it's kind of crazy thing. Um, let me check some of the messages here and see what we have as far as what I'm talking about. So, so I'm not just talking to myself here. Um, give me a second.

Yeah, Aditia Ivan, can you tell us what makes the Belgian dog so special and why some of these dogs still primitive type animals? Um, I I think I just kind of talked about it. I think it's that appreciation and I'm sure it came from trial and error and and following the the backstory of every dog. If you don't follow the backstory, you you would not you will lose it. Um but that's kind of where it comes from. There is the whole other aspect of, you know, the the Belgian ring, you know, the program, the rules, the jumps, all this stuff. It hasn't really changed since the beginning. You look at IGP today and you have an A-frame that keeps getting lower and lower. There is no environmental pressure. There are no sticks. There's the the program is becoming almost like a agility type of sport that doesn't allow to test character anymore. And that's one of the things that you know in the Belgium breeders and the the Belgian ring programs they they they still recognize those things and those qualities. Um, somebody is asking who who do I think that has my line currently. Um, I I'm sure there are places that have similar dogs to mine. Um, but as I said, I I have I keep all of my dogs from from the beginning. I have so okay you can say I lost turquoise as cement but I have cement from his son I have cement from another of his son I have I have options if I need to and I I don't think I've ever really lost and that's kind of the advice I'm trying to tell all of you that are breeding or considering breeding and you want to get serious with is that um you have to be very vigilant and and understand what you have. And even if you don't know what you have, still store it because next thing you know, let's say you bred two leaders and now out of these two liters, maybe two puppies from the first one and two puppies from the second one are doing really nice things. Maybe they're not competing, but you have access and you see the dogs and they're really uh um high caliber dogs and you know where it's coming from and you probably didn't think that that dog was the best dog or that combination was the best combination, but you haven't lost it. And this is the really the the cool thing about and and it's not that you know for the most part it's probably like around 12060 bucks per year to keep cement from one dog. So if you really want to get serious with it um highly highly recommend that you do that. Um, is your kennel hands on with the birth of your puppies or do you allow the beach to do everything on her own? Okay.

Yeah, we'll get to this in a second. Um, hopefully, let me see if I have something else to tell you about the the selection because again, it's not it's not about champion to champion. That's sometimes can be a good idea, but that's not always the case. And um um avoiding extremes, you know, in in any direction, any extremes, but at the same time have it and understand how to put together and then move away. bring it back. That's really It sounds really simple. And it is that simple as long as you have the knowledge to recognize and hopefully you're understanding what I'm talking about. Um, and now we have I mean we have all the you can you can test pretty much for anything. You have all the embark tests, you have the, you know, like all the all the things that you can either have everything clear on one side, then that means that dog's good to breed to anybody or if it has something, then for sure the other dog has to be clear of that in order to make a a healthy puppies. Um, and we have this option. It doesn't need to be the nightmares that were happening. uh some years ago. So I I definitely even if you do very very little breeding health testing is it's so so easy and so important and not expensive whatsoever. Um, it is very sad and heartbreaking when sometimes a combination doesn't work or some puppies end up being born with some, you know, genetic defects and some puppies need to be put down because they they really cannot even make it to get to 9 weeks old. Um, and sometimes, um, hopefully you have some people that just want to take a dog as a pet and and give a a puppy a good life. Um, do we have any interesting questions around what I'm talking about? Okay, there is a interesting question Angelique. How can you control 8020 percentage when each gets 50 of its genes from each parent? Um, yeah, sometimes it's not like just because you you breed it's not 50/50. It very rarely is 50/50 actually. I mean throughout everything that I've done in breeding I I almost cannot ever say 5050 that you see it you you you definitely can see more of one of the parent in the puppies. And what is really cool is that the more you're familiar with the lines,

the sooner you can like the guessing part of the selection of puppies starts to be not as difficult and complicated. It's not a lottery anymore. There is still some, but I can, you know, like depending which combinations I'm doing, I can look at puppies that are six weeks old and I see everything where they're coming from and I see where they would go and what they would look like. Um so this is interesting stuff to you know um but again it comes with understanding knowing knowing the dogs and hopefully now it's like there there is also I mean you have so many videos you can watch you can you know back then you had to trust certain people that if somebody was to tell you well this is a good dog and maybe you trust and then you realize that that was a mistake and then you start to become very selective who you trust and how you talk about breedings, who you talk with. Um, but these times are different today. There is, you know, uh, uh, it's not as complicated. It's just the the most complicated part in my opinion is that you know somebody has one dog or one female in Sakam a breeder and I mean that's how I started right everybody starts somewhere but eventually you need to pay attention you need to do follow-ups and the more you know and the more you understand your lines and combinations. And when you decide to choose something outside, you know what you're choosing and you know who to talk to that you can trust and and understand what you're getting. Super super important. Um, so Elen, he's on my he's in my TWW course and he's been wanting to hear about couple of my dogs, Jungo and Kenny. And they are very good examples of the two different types. Very good examples. Kenny comes. He's a He was the the dog that I won the two world championships with. I won the basically I won in one year all the competitions in the States and the two world championships. That's how good he was. And he was six years old at the time. And then I was like because I'm I'm you know some different ways of thinking I guess. But when that happened when I really just won everything possible to win at national level and world level in the same year I was like I I just did everything. There is nothing more to do. I know that if maybe I can do it again or maybe he's going to be third or maybe he's going to be 23rd. But for me, the accomplishment at the

time was uh um insanely cool. And I kind of didn't want to make him lose, if you want to think that way. kind of like with with fighters with martial arts, you know, like it's very hard to walk out. Fighters typically, they they just don't know how and when to stop on when they're on the top of their games. And that's kind of what I did with Kenny. Sure, there were times when I was like, man, I had at least another year. I should have done it. But, um, I I don't regret it. I think that was a ultimately a a super decision that I did. And so he was a he was the kind of dog that was difficult in some areas and it was exceptional in other areas because of that primitive type extreme biter. Like if you go to my Vusha channel on YouTube and you type Kenny, you will see like I have some old videos of him biting on sleeves and and basically when he lets go that sleeve is just crumbled like there's like a a wedge on the sleeve of of just this extreme power that he had. He was also insanely cool tracking dog. Like I've been I remember stories like back in Europe trying to go to competitions and preparing for tracking and sneaking into people's farms and arguing with trying to convince the farmer not to shoot me. And meanwhile, Kenny's just tracking his truck all on his own, never being bothered of the yelling or the cows coming or anything like that, but he was not easy in some other areas. Um, and Jango, Jango was before Kenny, he was a very extremely intelligent dog and very trainable dog. He made me he made me question at the time how good my training is because it was just happening so easy. He So Kenny was six years old when he won everything. Jungo was not even three years old when he he basically won again. He won the Malina Championship. He won the AWF championship bunch of times. All IP stuff. Then he did the FMBB. He got the trophy as the youngest dog and he placed second by a point. And I have videos of that competition and um you know uh like at the time everybody knew that we won the competition but it was in Germany and and this how it goes with competitions there is always this home advantage stuff. So one point um but the the story about the two of them it's basically you know two types of dogs and the one could have could do all this in a super young age because of the the intelligence and the character and the temperament and the other one needed that time. Um he was jungle story kind of sad story because

um the very next year the very next competition after FNBB it was uh AWDF competition all breed and he got really just really jammed very very bad on a long bite like he was kind of like a like a if you imagine a heart that just hits a concrete wall. That's kind of how his body got compressed. I have a I have videos and pictures of that and I rarely want to even watch him again. So, he never bounced back from it. It was always it was always there. There was he had the heart, he had everything, but but that neck injury was very severe and he was three and a half years old. So anyway, that that's the that's the in a nutshell the story about the two of them. But it was a good example actually of how I was talking to you about the two different types of dogs. And they were very very good examples. And even today in my breeding I can pinpoint how they maintain and how they connect and what new comes in and what I need where. Um, so there is a somebody asking would there be any reason to go outside the breed basically to crossbreed with a Dutch or a German Shepherd to improve certain traits. And this this has been done throughout the history of the breed. However, the really good ones in my opinion, they were not crossed. um like and I don't want to talk bad about the shepherds because there's some really amazing dutches, but there are some some of them that are really really extremely good and some that are just very almost below average. So there is a way more inconsistency there comparing to a serious malino bloodlines. There there's one of the the really cool things about malice is the consistency of producing the type of dogs that you expect to have that doesn't quite happen with other breeds. So as much as there is um you know crossbreedings and it's done and it's successfully done um I'm really I don't know if I should say I'm not a fan but I've never never even for a second has crossed my mind to do that simply because as small as the gene pool is in malinos you still have enough to work with. Um, and you know bringing this kind of outcross and you know it it has its risks. Um, of course we can argue that as a um population in a long run we need

diversity, right? But but I don't think we are quite there. Um so um When you say combination, do you mean primitive to trainability Russia? Yeah, I as I said like you can I mean you can you can keep climbing that pyramid and breed really good to really good to exceptional to exceptional and there will be a break point and before you recognize that it may be too late and you you do need to bring you need to maintain this if you're going to if you're thinking long-term breeding this is a very serious objective that you have to I mean you have to study it understand it hopefully I'm just kind of giving you some ideas and and once you start looking at dogs even in competitions even in training you can start to recognize those different types of dogs that I'm describing but it's super super important to to understand how to do this you know Um, Doug, what is the original question that Angelique has? I don't know how far that is. Let me see if I find it easy otherwise we move on. Um, so we will we can we can go back to this but let me let me talk to you. So we talked a little bit about the types. We talked about the kind of the pairing strategy if you want to think of it that way. Uh probably I should mention something about like there is always the thing well how soon how old is old enough for a dog to be bred? Um, sometimes there have been accidental breedings with males that are eight months old and they've produced some really really nice puppies. It's totally accidental because the the people thought, well, he's 8 months old. There's no way he's going to breed and next thing you know, the female's pregnant and there is 10 puppies. But actually, it's good. Um, but as a rule of thumb, you need maturity. You need that sexual maturity. For females, for me, ideally, I like that the female has gone through at least two, most of the time, I like for the female to have gone through three su heat cycles. So, that puts it around just a little over two years old. Um there are times when competitions and training gets in the way and you have to kind of you know jiggle between when it's time when it's not a time but the longer you wait just like with humans the the more difficult it is for for breeding to happen. And one things that I've learned like I have right now I have two females that are how old are Kim and Kalinka? >> Three. >> Three years old and they're both actively training and

hopefully competing and hopefully in high level. One is in muring and the other one is in IGP. But I found time to sneak a breeding. So both of them already had a leader of puppies. And um I think it's important for females. Like I don't know if I convinced myself in some weird way, but it it really makes them complete when when they had puppies at the age that typically they would have puppies if there was no human intervention. Um like right now with um Natalia's female, I mean she she's just a little over four years old now and it was her first time competing at the World Championships. She got fifth at FNBB, seventh at the FCI, got both time the best female in the world champ both world championships. As good as it sounds and it is, we are still like, man, we need to fi figure away when we can breed. And we feel like we are almost at the limit that we're going to miss the boat. And so, yes, there is a national championship coming and there is qualification coming, but she's in heat right now. She came in heat today and we have talked about it. We have planned it and we know that we have to breed her because uh um it's not good to wait. It creates complications and as I said it kind of a female that had puppies when when it was the right time. I think it just makes her more more complete and even even for competition's sake. Um she she's just more mature and much more well-rounded, you know. Um also how often to breed and how many times to breed. You know, there was um what comes to mind, there was a very famous dog coming kind of from very cool lines um in Germany. It was owned by Kim Heckler and he had that kennel. He still has it al man. And I cannot say ad eagle's eye in English. And I cannot think of I'm horrible with names, so don't don't get me into this. But she he was he he became quite famous with her because she was very solid dog and she did really good in competitions. But he was able to breed her almost every year and still compete. He bred her, I believe she was 11 years old or let's to be safe 10 years old and that went against any canel curl up regulations and ethical and moral and whatever you want to call it. Um, and at the time he got they kicked him out of the

DMC, the German Malino Club because of doing this and he was a judge and he was everything. Um, and he still produced really good puppies. Now, having said that, it yes, you can have exceptions and it's very difficult to have like I don't like when the kennel clubs decide for a breeder or animal rights activist, but it's a tossup. You know, there is the pros and cons on this cuz there is stupid people that do stupid things all the time. And all right. So to to say in my practice and and I have built it kind of in such a way that I have a lot of females and we you know and what I mean by a lot of females I we really have a lot of females and some of them are with us some of them All of us are training and then doing competing and stuff. Uh but we also co co-own females and sometimes we would breed once or twice, sometimes we will breed four times. Um, but I would say the the the way we do breedings, no matter what, if she has puppies this year, then we're skipping at least a cycle. Also depends how many puppies like um you know some some females like we had a certain type of line that it was guaranteed that there will be five or six. If if there were six, that's amazing. But it was like five puppies, five puppies, five puppies. Sometimes there will be one or two and the female just bounces back and she's ready. And yeah, then we would consider breeding a little more, a little sooner. um the same thing though. Sometimes they will have 12 or 14 and then we're for sure giving her she she's not breeding for two cycles. There is just no reason to uh um you know keep sucking the life out of it cuz it's it's a lot. And but yeah, so I would say the way we do there is a breeding then we would skip one or two cycles if we decide that we like what we like and also depending on how good of a mom the female is. Um I'm going to talk about this in a second. Let me write So I don't forget uh because there there's times where you have you know you have some some females that are just not meant to have babies. You know they they start killing them as they are born or at five weeks old all of a sudden something pathological. No, no real explanation, nothing environmentally, nothing has changed and there's just you're just not supposed to be a mom. Um, so being a good mom super important. Um, but there is see where I'm going with this

is there's like quite a few different deciding factors of how often I would repeat I would make a breeding with a female and when to stop. Ideally, I think by the time they're seven week seven years old, we we are done with it. Um I I I need to kind of look in my records but I I doubt that I will find anything after that simply because we have everything that we we needed. We have tried different combinations and we had enough time to even repeat a combination that we like and so on. So that's um you know um I think it's it's important that even as a breeder you don't end up you know it sounds crazy when I say well I I've bred I have bred like 1,200 puppies and it sounds like it's a freaking puppy meal and and it's really not the case because this is over a long long period of time. Um, so as far as the males go, they can breed of course much older. The the most important thing is to do a sperm count. And so you know that you're not wasting a breeding because the the male is already getting old and and the semen the sperm count is not uh sufficient to to do anything. [Music] Adita hopefully I'm saying the name right. Adita, can you tell us about Kartous and his sons? Farad Baieber. Yeah man. So this was the this was basically I was fortunate enough it was crazy that I was fortunate enough to be in Belgium at that time and to know the breeder and to know these dogs and not just to know them but I I have personally they I've taken bites from these dogs you know um not Cartou not the the original Cartush back back then I I never saw him. That was before my time. But um Bibl Var Bieber Elgos all these dogs like I I know them personally which was just like a you know it's just one of these memories that very special to me. But yeah, there was a very similar with them and that's kind of where I I learned to to do what I'm talking about. Um, look at the time he had he had a lot of emails and sometimes he would do something with them, sometimes he wouldn't. Like I remember first time going to his place and he was super he was just very cool guy and he's like I'm going to show you and he just gets a like a burlap and a bamboo stick and lets a dog out and just goes crazy and then brings the other one and the other one and they're all females. And then there is this one is she's not biting but she makes a really good puppy. This one's not very handful

that and um but yeah, the the appreciation and the knowledge I think it's it's just it's always there and the more you stay with the breed and the more you understand and the more you you you study it, you you go back and you understand some dogs like I you know I have videos of I have like probably 4hour v VHS tape of Bieber training and competitions and all sorts of things from back then we're talking I don't know 87 89 I don't know um and even today after who knows let's let's just guess let's say 15 generations I still can see I still can see traits and qualities that are just never going away but as I said sometimes you miss the boat and you let it go you sell that puppy that you should have kept kept and then you didn't pay attention enough and you weren't smart enough to bring a puppy back from there and basically somebody else maintained the line. But the lines, you know, they they get maintained and of course there is new coming because of the different combinations. But but the the interesting part is to be able to maintain the old stuff in in the breeding. Um, you guys interesting? Having fun with this? Hopefully, cuz I feel like I'm just talking to myself here. It's tough when it's not back and forth. Maybe we have to figure something. Good. I got I saw some hearts coming out. Thank you. Um yeah, some reinforcement for me, right? Um all right, I think we have a lot more to talk about. So let's let's move on. Let's go to let's go to what happens after pregnancy. Uh because now with with all the neuroscience and all the knowledge that we have and all the data that we have with all the research with animals and humans, we really understand how important it is what the mom's life looks like. before she gets pregnant, as she's pregnant, and as she's raising the puppies, you need you definitely need stability. And for some that may require much more and with some you don't need to be as concerned. But again, even something as allowing the pregnant female to have just quiet time, not to be stuck between two

crazy dogs and doing the matrix in the kennel all day long and being all narrowing just because of that environment like food and sleep and just stable environment. I I think it's extremely extremely important for the future of the puppies. Um you know there is always the nurture versus nature and the that debate is is just probably never ending just like the Malino pedigree. Um, but if if I have to lean on one side, if I need to put my money, it will always be the genetics because when the genetics are strong, a lot has to happen in the environment to affect them. But having said that, I I still am very very careful how a female when when it's time to have puppies and when she's pregnant, what her life is about. Um it is really it is one of the most important things to me as a breeder I would say. Then as far as welping, we definitely make sure like we've been, you know, it's very painful, especially when you breathe for so long. And now again, like I have Taylor and Natalia here and they're just in the back behind here listening, but they can attest to what I'm saying. You know, like a female starts to welp and you have no the slightest idea how many puppies to expect and there is complications and complications happen not not you know it's not uncommon. So, one of the really another advice that again requires some money, but it's really well worth it. Don't don't just do uh um um what's the name man? The ultrasound. Ultrasound is okay, but eventually puppies can get absorbed. there is nothing or sometimes there is just a different count and so on. You need at some point before the welping you need an X-ray. It makes the life so easy. Assuming now that again the the female is of good temperament and it's not going to need to be pinned down by five vetex and blowing her anal glands and trying to bite everybody and make some extremely dramatic experience out of it. Um, X-rays is a must because it gives you it gives you a very good idea. And puppy number nine is out and it's 12 or 100 a.m. and you're like, "Yep, it's okay. We're done." Or somebody gets stuck, which very often can happen. And then you have to learn how much you

can help by yourself. And when it's time for emergency and what is your window time your time period of how soon you need to rush to to search seek help. This is all everywhere uh you can find that information but uh definitely again as a breeder highly useful and and I cannot recommend it more than than what I'm doing right now. Um, now how many of you are familiar with the um the what was it called? The bio sensor program. The the super puppy program. the military think that um you know as they are very very young like eyes are not open they don't like regulate temperature yet but we are doing this kind of very interesting stimulation yeah some of you I can see that are familiar with this they do very interesting stimulation like for example they get a little Q-tip and tickle their little paw just to make the brain register what's happening. And you're basically really awaking the brain and putting body and brain a little bit faster together, holding them upside down a little bit. Putting a little cold towel for a moment and basically giving all these sensual experiences and either bringing some curiosity to the brain or just a little bit of stress. And the idea is that it creates a you know it's as as it's goes by its name it's the super program and whatever. So when when that came about I was very excited just like everybody else and it was sold as some something legit. Now you already know I'm against it. Um, so again, just consider how many breedings I've done in my life. There was a moment in time when I was really like, okay, this is let's do this. But then I was like, well, how do I know if it's working or not? Like really, how do I know if I And what I did I I want to I don't know, but at least for five or six, seven breedings, what I did was I split them and I did half puppies on the super puppy program and half were just left alone. Since I'm talking about it, I'm sure you're not surprised. There was no difference. There was absolutely zero difference. Like zero difference. And I I left that alone. That was, you know, eventually I abandoned this. It was like

okay I don't I'm not interested in it because we should be able to to clearly see some difference especially when I'm really keeping data and tracking them and and what I mean by tracking them I I mean they are already two years old and I'm still looking at them and no it's like no absolutely nothing you know um so and that goes with a lot of studies and stuff. You know, sometimes you will have scientists and they will gather 20 dogs or 30 dogs and do a study and it's going to be based on these 20 dogs, but they also going to have that uh um you know studying backwards with the study trying to make the conclusion that they want the outcome that they come. So um but when you put a long big number of of dogs and you play with it, you start to you know see that sometimes studies just because there is a study that says something and you see that it's done with very small amount of dogs and there is no really followup and then even in the study you can kind of if you know how to read studies you can see the the holes in it which every study has. So anyway, that was a that was one thing that I was like, okay, I don't need to do that. It was exciting to try but but clearly didn't do much. Um and so the next thing if we go let's move a little bit kind of speed up here. So now I'm in in the states and I got a job as a instructor at Guide Doss for the Blind in California in San Rafael and they had their own breeding program. And prior to having their breeding program, not prior to having their breeding program, but prior to me getting there, I was reading a book on on can't think of the name again as always something about behavior and selection and whatever. The the name of the guy was Clarence Fafenberg. So Clarence Fafenberg basically designed a test for the guide dog school specifically and then wrote a book about it and then he said in the book that before them evaluating and testing and selecting through the testing and I'm talking testing I'm talking like puppy testing like we're talking about nine weeks old is that from 50/50 success rate and failure it improved to 7030 because of the testing which is mind-blowing when you think about it if you can predict that well at that time. Well, when I got to guide dogs being a breeder and being super interested in this stuff and them having their own selection and breeding program and puppy raisers and 4 volunteers and so on and having read all the the books, I was very very much into this. And so they had a whole different quarter kind

of separate the of course for puppies and moms so they don't get sick from the other dogs and so on. But anytime I had opportunity I would go and watch what they do. So all the typical kind of you know now the well-known AKC test with the you know the old newspapers the keychain dropping the umbrella all these things a little blank gun and so on and so on and everything you know very diligently they keep track and again it ended up being a farce which is not the case even today I haven't I haven't been in touch with guide dog trainers or anybody in there since late 90s. But I can bet everything I have that nothing has changed and that they still have the same success rate as far as uh um you know the fail and the graduate. Um, so then yeah, of course, I mean, especially I don't know I I don't even know how it is today, But at at some point in in my time, I was like, man, this is we have to test them. They are 8 weeks old or whatever the magic age was. And it's like, okay, it's test day. It's like, no. I mean, by the time even by the time you bring one puppy, then you bring the third puppy, the fourth puppy is already barking and whining and being very frustrated that everybody else is out and he's still in the litter box or whatever. Or he just didn't eat well and has a little diarrhea or whatever the reasons are. maybe he got beat up by his brother and he doesn't feel like chasing a rolled newspaper ball and and so on. So they're very like I absolutely don't believe in this one time testing myself. Um and again I I want to make sure that you guys understand that that's just my takes on things uh from my experience. You know I'm sure some people would swear that it works for them and that's great. Uh for me it it never you know it's it always was a wishful thinking and to some extent wasted time. Um so one of the things that I like to do because I'm sure you starting to be curious. So what what do I do? one of the the and I don't know how long ago we came to this conclusion but I was like I decided that I will never when puppies are born I will never put different colors and you know know who is who for many reasons. one, you start to you start to be biased and you start to be biased extremely fast. You're like that red collar puppy is always in your face. Like you you just subconsciously convincing yourself to just keep paying attention to the red collar puppy and maybe the red collar puppy is doing some really stupid things, but it does one thing that you really like and you're

like, "Yeah, of course, the red collar puppy." and you're missing what's going on in the whole group. I was one of the people just like I'm sure many of you that breed. Oh, this is the first one that came out of the box. So what I mean really it came out of the box? Maybe he was just in that position that he was able to climb over that other puppy and came out of the box. or maybe genuinely figured out how to come out of the box. Nothing magical, not no superiority whatsoever in the future of that puppy just because it came out of the box first. Um, hopefully I'm making sense with this. So, I don't like to put colors on them until it's time to start to pay attention to them. And that typically starts around 7 weeks old. Then there is a I wish I can keep them longer because they keep changing. But again the you have the advantage of knowing the gene pool and the bloodlines and the potential. So you can kind of recognize a little bit more especially if you if you know everything. If it's not you're not using anything from outside that it sounds very foreign to you as a breeder then you you're it's not hard whatsoever. So I would have um about 7 weeks old, let's say. I would put the colors on them. Now I can identify them. And of course with malice it's it's a little extra hard and you have to really kind of be very firm about it because one has a little more white on the paw, one has a little more white like they're you know to to not the Mali person they look the same but as a the more you're familiar with the breed you can absolutely know who is who. But we make a very very big effort not to do that. We treat everybody as a packed until that last period of time. Then we put the colors on and of course we allow them to, you know, get over, okay, this thing. All right, give it three days and now they're all cool about it. And that's when we start to evaluate. And it's evaluation that kind of it's a ongoing thing. It's not a it's definitely never a one day let's test the puppies. It's just a a collection accumulative collection of information that we, you know, take notes. And especially now it's even much cooler because as I said like we have I have Natalia and Taylor and we basically from that age we start to pay attention and we do things with them but we don't share information. Who's my favorite? Who is your favorite? How do you rate them? How do you place them? Um depending on the breeding you will have few options. You will have sometimes extremely uniformed leader like you will have eight puppies that will really

just be very very similar in everything they do. And sometimes you will have different variations. Malininoas like I I went through a period of time when I was selecting like I I'm like okay I'm a breeder. I know everybody. I know the bre the lines. I know this. I know this. I'm going to select now puppy for myself. And you would think it's super easy and somehow the best puppy ends up with a friend of mine. And then the next time I'm selecting and the best puppy ends up with a friend of mine and I'm like I can't even recall which puppy was it. And this is the interesting part that I want to talk to you about. the very very interesting part because especially when we're taking malas we always think oh you need to get the the most active the most the one that just you cannot get your eyes off of it's just doing doing it's here and it's there it's in your face and it's biting your wrinkles and then it's there and it's it's not I I I would again depending on the lines but as a rule of thumb That's not the puppy in the leader. Very rarely it is that puppy. They end up a little bit too too hyper, too nervy, too much in some way. Not as balanced if you want to think that way. And then I started to kind of think and again just going back and looking at the parents, looking at the videos, looking at them, looking at them now being 3 years old and so on and and doing a lot of comparison. It's very time consuming. But when you like doing this kind of stuff, it's it becomes an obsession. And it's an obsession that I you very rarely hear me talk about this kind of stuff. And that's kind of what prompted me to make this video because I I should do something much bigger than than just a life like this one day. But it's very easy even for an experienced person to say okay there is these two that are very awkward and kind of standoffish and unsure and there is these three that are just in your face all the time and then there is this four in the middle. The four in the middle for me end up being the most interesting ones. And it's the four in the middle typically that end up being somebody later on more often than any other way. That took some years of of hard mistakes of me of me selecting a puppy for myself going all the way to like two years, three years and and be like, man, I look at his brother, look at his sister. What did I how did that get missed with what I consider myself having experience, right? I always wish that um you know but it's a really hard toss up because you have

to like if I have an opportunity 10 weeks, 11 weeks, 12 weeks, you start to see way more. It's far more reliable than eight weeks. However, the older they get, the more they need to get exposed to the world and that's very tasking, that's very time consuming. So, it's very difficult that way. So, there is again pros and cons and um that toss up, you know. Let me before I I I know where I'm going with this, but let me just check what you guys are thinking here. If there is something okay so let me let me uh um what what I want to talk now it's another kind of interesting and very complex it's not really a problem, but we make it a problem. Sometimes the puppy that goes into the new environment and we let all of them, but there is that one that kind of goes and stays away and pretends that it's not there. It's maybe under the sofa or under the cabinet or somewhere. It's like just peeking, but it's hoping that nobody sees them. How many of you will write this puppy off if you were to go and select the puppy? I would bet that 99% of people, and I'm talking very competent dog trainers, would never consider this puppy as a prospect ever. However, there is something interesting about those puppies. They are still two types of these puppies. There are the ones that are genetically not sound. And then they are the ones that actually see the world much sooner than the others and are recognizing that this is new. And now they have to decide is it dangerous or not. That's intelligent. That's not a bad trait. You can have the other one that is just super bold and is just I'm here. What are we doing? But they're not there yet. They're not seeing the things yet. And they may go through what we call later on the fear period or they may get stuck in that period. And they really can be become that uh insecure dog as they grow up. So I watch a puppy like this and that shy puppy that is very observant and very aware is like okay let me come out and he comes out and then he goes back and does that in increments and it's exploring but it's exploring on its own terms.

I have given like not even selling I have given dogs that this type of puppy to friends just as a just have it as a pet because I I feel I felt uncomfortable at the time to even sell that as a working prospect dog with the knowledge that I had. And then I had a a wakeup call just as many wakeup calls that I've had. And the one the one puppy the first one that really kind of just put me in place. It it became I think it was three time DVG champion and whatever. I mean it was like they became a super dog. We use them as breeding and and everything and it was highly in tuned and very confident. I mean just a a dog you would take in a heartbeat once you see it as a grownup dog you know. Um so I will give you something to think about that is interesting here. Let's say let's say let's take IGP. I don't know how how much some of you I'm sure you compete some have a little bit of understanding some not as much. So I will give you a little bit of what is what do we look for in a dog and the training of the dog in the highest level possible in IGP today. And that means that one of the things when we talk about obedience is that almost extreme in tune dog to the person. So like you would put the dog on a down stay and go and hide in a blind while another dog is doing the routine. That's the, you know, they always come on pairs. And this dog's going to go and lay down and it's going to stay there like a sphinx, like just dead focus at that dwin. Not interested in anything else that's happening. but their person not because of training that start to get appreciated that starts to be okay that dog is very in tuned. It's like it's the ultimate uh um desire for cooperation and there is like distractions don't exist for that dog. Now you have a different dog and you have to work very hard to accomplish this with it. So, you're going to put them on a down and then you're going to stay in the blind and then you're going to surprise them with some release and a toy or you're going to you're going to work hard to make them stay vigilant and expect that something's going to be happening. But you have to train them to expect that something's going to be

happening to where with the dog that I was telling you about, they don't expect. they are naturally just it's me and you and I'm here and you're there but ultimately I want to do things with you and I'm waiting for this to happen. you go and you watch competitions and again IGP is a is just the the prime example of this because the other like the ring sports they don't emphasize on this um and I'm not trashing that because it's just again different criterias that they all have different things um but now like let's say FNBB or the FCI and you see Dogs do sit out of motion, do down out of motion, do stand out of motion. And the moment the person walks away, the dog starts to bop its head like, "Okay, well, what is that? And what is that? And what is here? And what is whatever?" And then there is this other dog that everybody would have never touched. You give them a position and they just go and that's it. That's it. I mean, you can come right next to them and go, "Hey." And they they will not not that they will not acknowledge it, but it doesn't mean nothing to them. They're like, "You're irrelevant. I'm doing something with my person." And there is something extremely special about it. So again, it's a give and take. And there are, you know, there are things that you have to consider as far as what you want to work on, what you want to have as a given, and how far you want to go in competition. So you can say, well, what about protection? Mhm. Sorry, because I got to get this going. So, we're staying again. I'm I'm going to hopefully we will have enough time or maybe we need to do part two. I don't know. But I I want to go into the ring sports and then I want to compare the different programs cuz this it's super super interesting everything. Um but one of the big differences between IGP and ring sport is that in IGP we we are we like the dog to show some dominance and some some aggression there. So like if they come to the blind and start barking, it's not just a rhythmic barking. It's not just I'm doing this so you can throw a toy for me because you can train that way too. I don't want to get there different topic. However, that dog that's a little bit more aware, that unsuress, and they're like, I'm coming in the blind, but I'm not sure who's going to win there. It's a little bit like this, right? And with experience and proper training, they learn how to win. However, what is the cool part is they're showing a very genuine, hey, I'm a little concerned, but I'm going to [ __ ] you up.

So, the aggression comes very easy and very natural if you understand the type of dog and you allow them to be that way and through experience become somebody. When you have the more comfortable dog, if you want to call it that more comfortable puppy, and you want to create that type of aggression, you're going to have to work. You're going to have to basically do some things to make that dog question to where the other one is already there. I don't know if that's kind of going over the heads of some of you. Um and and but that that's one of one of the things about you know when we when we are selecting dogs and we write off very quickly the dogs that are they just see the world the way the world is and and they're like I don't know this world why should I just come out and then you say well but the other one's coming out and look at them acting out like nothing's happening. Yeah, they don't see it this way yet, right? So, it's a it's a cool stuff to think about. Um then you have another type of puppy. If you watch some of my latest videos, I don't like to call puppies or dogs reactive because reactive is such a generic umbrella word that covers so many things. But you have the dogs that are, you know, they're just a little more sharp. they they act they make decisions sooner before they are convinced what it is but they already have made a decision how to approach. So they're doing the popcorn barking or they kind of come behind you and try to nip at you even at 10 weeks old and we think, well, he's unstable. That's not going to be a good working prospect. Well, I was thinking about this for a while and here is here is kind of my take on this again there are two types just like I was talking with the shy puppies you know some some comes with that genetic weakness and predisposition and some are just much more awake and they see uh unfamiliar their environment and they're not, oh yeah, let's go. So the one that kind of the sharp one, that's their choice of how they want to explore and deal with the world. It's just a different strategy, but kind of comes with the same from the same place, the same home base. I am I'm this big and I need to figure it out who I am and where I stand and what I can do. A lot of times and again this is it almost can be very controversial what I'm going to tell you but a lot of times you will have um that

kind of puppy and you will say well he needs socialization badly. We need to just start giving them food and go places and let them see people and and we need to now there is good and bad with everything. The good is that you're becoming proactive. The bad the bad is that we are not allowing that puppy to work it out on its own terms, on its own pace. Sometimes he's like, "Okay, I'm going to act super scared, but also super forward and see what happens." And then they take notes and it it's almost like a, you know, like a kid that goes to some martial arts schools eventually and starts to learn some skills and starts to learn what they can do and that confidence starts to replace the insecurity. But they had to go through the insecurity to gain the confidence and it was that experience that they needed. So if we were not to allow them to have that experience, then I can argue that there's that puppy is going to have that question mark for quite some time and maybe for for forever. Well, who I am? Who am I? Where do I stand? Right? And so so sometimes just giving time is super important when when you select and when you actually take a puppy. Sport people are the worst. They they you know I mean sometimes I am this way too very impatient and you want everything to be right. If you do any dog sport and you've seen an extremely special dog and you know the person and that person, the owner can be honest with you. They will tell you 100% that it wasn't a smooth road, that there was problems and there were recoveries and there were problems and there were recoveries. But there is this thing about patience and understanding and also at the same time knowing when you are really hoping and you're really fooling yourself and you need to cut it off. But for the most part, I I would say that um sport people, police, anything that has to do with especially protection stuff, they would ride off a lot of very very interesting and very dogs with extreme potential eventually because of impatience and lack of understanding. Okay. Do I make sense, guys? Like, give me some tell tell me something here. You got all quiet. Now

we know how everybody does um um not everybody but it's you know you watch all the social media and you see the little puppies doing crazy stuff. I mean crazy stuff just to get to their food, right? Just to have their meal. And there are few different school of thoughts and you kind of need to decide where you want to go and I don't want to say which one is better but but you you do have to understand them. So, which is the norm with malinopies, right? So, what do we do with malinopies? as a as a somebody on YouTube or Tik Tok or whatever. We're going to let them all the whole pack comes out and the rattle stick comes in and bunch of bottles drop down out of nowhere and some fans and noises and all sorts of stuff. But we presented in a way to where we say, "Hey, this is not scary. This is just happening but it doesn't mean nothing. And that's easy message, you know, with with few sessions. They're like, "Yep, of course nothing's happening. It's just background noise." And you can go far with that, very far. Now you have another which I consider much more interesting way. And instead of going with a group with the pack mentality, you do one or maximum two at a time. But you say, well, those bottles with the rocks, they could be dangerous. So, accept them as dangerous. But let me show you how you can go through and and win over them. And that that uh um it doesn't just bring make resilience. That's that's kind of makes it antifragile, you know, like it actually it's a stress and it's like this dangerous but guess what? I'm better than it. So when you present it in a in a very intelligent way that way you're really again there is this two parts as I keep saying there is always two parts and within the two parts there is also two but we can say hey don't be afraid that just makes noise that touches you but it's okay don't be afraid or hey that can hurt like we put stress but not create a chronic stress, but something that it's to be overcome. And they recognize that and they learn something much more valuable for the for the rest of their lives because of that.

Yeah. Um the other dangers there's many things like I and again I I'm talking because I've I've been on every side of this story. Again, I don't want to bring the numbers and the years again, but I I I've been like I have a video that I am doing crazy things with one puppy biting and dipping them in a trash can and doing just insane things. And I watch it today and I'm like, man, what the [ __ ] was wrong with me? What I was trying to prove adding stress especially to a malinopathy it can be quite dangerous because of their temperament too. They they are very gung-ho. They are very forward and it makes you feel that you can keep going and you can keep stressing and can keep doing more before you realize that you've reached a break point and there is no return no more. It's kind of like again analogy with fighters, you know, you're you're believe in yourself and you're the best one until you get knocked out and it takes one knockout and you're never ever ever the same fighter again. When you do stuff like this with all of them and you say, "Okay, I'm going to desenticize them and I'm going to make them bulletproof stable and they going to handle all sorts of noises and all sorts of things." Well, there is the one or two of them that maybe that's the worst thing that you can do to them at that age. They're still questioning who they are and and we feel, okay, well, they're going to they're going to become resilient. we're going to just overflood. And yeah, you overflood, but what it looks like acceptance and confidence actually can be just a moment of overflooding and the receptors kind of shutting down and they're like, "Okay, it is what it is." But they take a note and that's not the cool thing. Um, so I think you're getting my point. I am also I I like to stress intelligently every puppy. But make them understand that yes, this is scary, but you can do this instead of, hey, this is not scary. Look, it's just touching you. It's just making noise. It's not scary. Very different take, right? Um, man, this cigar, it's a very good cigar, but I'm talking too much. Um,

I um I don't know. I like for puppies to have a good mom. I like for puppies to have a nice upbringing. I like them to experiment. I like them to have puzzles. But I like also to be on their term and like to give them options to retreat and explore and come back and evaluate. I don't want to say, "Well, if you don't make it, too bad. You're not going to eat today." Um Let me see and monies are man at school. They are you know how we we always say well they're the Ferraris of dogs and whatever and and it's absolutely true. But males thrive on clarity and time and they can trick you. They can fool you to think that they can do so much. And that's probably one of the really the red flags that I kind of want to bring to all of you that are interested in breeding and interesting in developing puppies and stuff that that there is a whole life ahead of them for them to do this and they can be ready for it instead of you just thinking that you're just checking boxes and covering everything and okay, we're doing this and this and this And it's going to be the super dog. The super dog typically will be a super dog even if you let it be. I have um so I have these two females that I was telling you that I just bred. Kimba and Khalinka. Kimba I kept from a puppy and I'm doing muring with her. And her sister I sold as a pet or maybe not as a pet. Maybe I sold her as a somebody that wanted to do stuff with for sure. But at two years old they called me and they're like we just don't have time and it is not fair. and me knowing the line and and knowing everything about him. I'm like, she's coming back. Like, I'm taking her back. I'm, you know, making it right with you cuz you spent two years on her. And of course, you know, it's much more worth it than a puppy price and whatever. Well, two years old, guess what? She is at the level if not better than Tarson who is my competition dog who I also have as a puppy and everything in her life started at 2 years old. I'm myself a very good example of this. You know where I'm going with this is the this hard believing imprinting and and doing things in early age and and we we

have convinced ourselves that if we don't we're going to miss the boat that somebody's going to be better than us because we didn't do all these things that we should have done with the puppies. That's kind of where I'm talking about nurture nature and how uh uh you know genetics they're there and they're very hard to to shake when they're strong. I've had I I guess I I learned this in a in a different way. I should tell you that story and it's not a malina story but I was working at the time at the San Francisco SPCA. I was like the animal behaviorist which meant that I I would test dogs who comes in and who is adoptable and so on. And back in the '9s, there was there was a lot of like the the fighting rings, like a lot of bullies and stuff and animal care and the police and us will go to this underground rings and bust that and go in and see all this like a big hole with little enclosure rings and dogs with two rings. just bleeding half life. Just this horrible stories, but they were two puppies. They were not puppies. They were like 8 months old bullies. That's that's where my appreciation for the breed came. Like I I think they're I mean the the really good bullies are insanely cool dogs and they were about 8 months old and they have lived in like 10 by 10 enclosure with like a fence like not changing like a wooden like they have not seen anything in the world. and talking about imprinting, talking about solitation, talking about all the things that, as I said, you're going to miss the boat if you don't do. And here they are, these two brother and sister, one was gray, one was red, and had the, you know, well, anyway, I we knew this is the case like we we knew the the whole backstory of them. Man, you take them I I take them out and this is like downtown San Francisco. I mean, [ __ ] is happening. I mean, you have the homeless people with the carts, you have the trolley, you have it's just insanely crazy environment and they're not like they don't care. They absorb and watch and learn. and we go in an elevator and you know like you take some dog on an elevator and they just get this eagle clothes and oh what's going on? It's like, "No, they're cool." And and so anyway, that that kind of convinced me, changed my mind of of of, you know, up to that point, I was, oh, it's 50/50. It's environment and genetics. And and genetics trumps. Genetics always trumps. You need to like when when they're there, it's very very cool. Um,

all right. I can I can go on and on, but let me stop the monologue. Let Let me see. Um, let's go. Let's go with you guys. What's Let me let me see your top Mali question that you have. write it down and let's see what what I where I can go with it. I'm sure you got to have some questions that I'm not touching upon. What is your top Mali question? [Music] [Music] I I I like it. What do you think about giant snouter? I was talking about Mali question. Uh okay, let's keep the schnoutzer uh aside for a moment. Okay, Angelique, easier to train male or female. That's a good one. It's a good one. um in my early career like I started with a with a collie that's was like in Bulgaria and like the lassi you know but back then they had this very sturdy very different type of lassi type of dogs that you know but it was a female then the very first malina that I got was a female in Belgium. As I told you, I didn't have a I didn't I haven't seen a Malino. I just heard people talking and the passion and how they talked about it. I was like, that's I I have to have this. Um, which is becoming a problem now today. Everybody wants them and and not everybody really needs them. There is so many other dogs that are so much better for some individuals. the the female Mali. So, I'm going to again the the story. It's a priceless story that I've actually used in in my breeding career. Uh I I knew a person that knew a person that knew that the do the oppoa breeder Luke Vance de Brush and this is at the time as some of you already know this famous cornerstone dogs like the Bieber and Varak and Elgos and Nelton and whatever. And I'm going there and I'm like I I know what I want. I need a mail and I it has to be dark and and I go in his kitchen and it's this tradition of how you have you know you have lunch and you talk and and there is this 8-week old male dark beautiful just in the kitchen and I'm like that's the kind of puppy I'm hoping now that I'm going to cat. He's talking to my friend and he's like, "Well, I have the dog for him." Talking about me. Let me bring her in. And I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] it's a female." So, he brings her. Well, she's not a puppy. She's 4 months old and she has white socks. We're talking like white socks and this white here. I mean, everything

that I did not want and I'm like so clearly upset about it that he everybody sees it. He asked my Luca is asking my guy. He's like, "Well, what's wrong with him?" It's like he wants that black puppy and It was this close for him to say just just go home, you know, in a nice way. And we went back and forth and back and forth. And finally he was like, "Okay, take the female and take the black one and in two weeks you bring one back." I get goosebumps telling that story every time. I was just so smart of him. So smart of him. Of course, two weeks later, guess which puppy I'm bringing back. There's no question, you know. I mean, they they were just incomparable in in any any way. Like, if I knew what I know or if I knew even a third of what I know at the time, it would have been amazing. She ended up being my foundation female for my kennel. Um, ended up being I think a place 12th place at the FCI World Championships with her at the time that Americans didn't nobody thought that they can do anything. 1992 I think it was and it changed my it changed everything how I think about male or female um like for sure there is there is something about you you know your personality and you can you just you know if it feels very strong don't go against it go with what you want, male or female. But if you can just pass that and you can look into what you want to do and who is more capable then you know me male or female just changes. It's just not a factor. It really not a factor. Um and we can say like you can argue this is very different like just take German shepherds. It's very very rare that you see a super female like like go to the WSV and then go to working dog and check how many female dogs have won. I haven't done it by the way. I don't know but I bet it's not more than one or two if that males are different. Females are they are just as good. They there is they will not like a a good male or female malis. It's it's like you just don't look at them when they work. You don't you forget about male or female. So um but I get it sometimes you know the person is convinced and and there is that connection that you make and and if if you cannot make the connection with the sales that you it's not what you've convinced yourself then then you shouldn't do it because it's not going to go well right so that's kind of my answer on this um

what is the view about line breeding and inbreeding. So um um a lot of the malice a lot of a lot of good lines have been it's been done because of very close line breeding and in breeding. So it can be done. You just you're taking a well at least at the back in the day you were taking a lot of chances because when you do that kind of stuff what are you doing? You're amplifying. And now the question is where what you going to amplify right? It can become a a very disastrous experience. and then how many times you can do it before you really if you're smart you need to bring something that is comparable but it's fresh in there. So my take is uh again this is almost on one-on-one basis and and judgment. Um the good thing is that we have every possible test now to do to give to see if there will be any serious red flags and and and see um you know how risky it is. There are times when it just has to be done. Like let's say let's say you live in Australia and you have this insane quarantine and you you you know you have you're limited in what you can do. Um so yeah that's it's a it's an interesting thing. I I'm not pro or against. I think it's just something to be done or not done but it has to be taken under consideration and we have to understand that there will be risks with it. I'm just reading here the inquisitive I cannot even dig or how how would they say but is there is there a big difference in European breeding standards versus American as far as the working lines are concerned? Um, that's an interesting question. All of these questions like we can go for days talking about this stuff. Um, so if I bring you the example with the DMC, the German marino club and their curum early early on when they decided to do it. Um, they they just kept going for the better and the sharpener and the better and the sharpener until it became so thin the nerves that they just were uh very unccapable dogs. And they recognized that back at that time. I remember me sitting at a FMBB meeting, the the Malino, the well the Belgian Shepherd working dog Federation meeting

and there was all the different countries talking about things and there was a a a guy from Finland. Um, of course the Finnish names are so hard to to remember, but Timu was his first name. Anyway, there was a guy and he's like, I think we all should adopt the German system of selection and we really need to focus and it comes from a good place and we need to focus on selection and and you know it's already there is a model and we can all adopt and follow and and it's going to be all good for the whole world of Malina and it was interesting to see how it just divided the meeting in two camps and there were people that are like there is no [ __ ] way we're doing this. Guess who were on this who didn't agree? The Belgians. They're like we never do this. That's why we have NFBBK. That's why we don't comply to FCI rules and stuff. That's why we do, you know, we breed Nettle to Penna and uh Kujo to whatever, you know. and we don't know much but we have the knowledge and we can take a chance but we have the freedom as a breeder and this is the interesting part I guess that I want to tell you it's the the freedom as a breeder typically it's it's far more important when the breeder has the knowledge and that's just kind of with everything I guess in in life in humans you It's like when you don't know what you're doing, you need guidance and you need structure and you need to follow some protocols. But if you're above that, all these protocols are actually like like literally a wrench in the wheel. And me personally, I I would never want to submit to some kennel club or organization to tell me if my dog needs to have a certain title or certain something so it's allegible for breeding. I like to make that decision myself. But as I said, it's it's a it has the two sides the coin. We we know what happens across the country right now and how many Malininoas are in every [ __ ] shelter in anywhere in the country right now. It it's it's heartbreaking. So the quick answer to this is that when there is knowledge as a breeder, you have to allow the breeder give him give him the opportunity to freestyle. Um, but it's I guess it's complicated. But as I said, I do really appreciate the fact that, you know, AKC doesn't care and I can I can literally make what is this? Calibri. The lighter the name of the lighter is Cibri. I can I can register it as a Malina today and

I can get a full pedigree. That's how shitty it is in some way, right? Um so it's I don't know. I I I don't know what to say to this one. I wish that there is some kind of education for the people that are serious, but having the freedom to to decide. I have bred dogs and and not I'm not just talking about myself. We we breed dogs that don't have titles. We breed dogs that Yeah. That dog is just living in a farm or living in a condo in whatever town. >> Shut it off. >> Shut it off. Natalia is playing her phone and disrupting me. I hear my voice on her phone. Um, all right. I I think you get my point. There is no easy answer to that one. At least in my opinion, but I I again I would take the chance of allowing people to do versus restricting them. And that's probably kind of universally why I live in the States and not somewhere else in Europe, you know. I mean, um, all right, let's see. How do you pick pet puppies? Yeah. So, the pet puppy's um it's a it's a it all goes to being it's not the puppy cuz when you have the the puppies that are really genetically weak, they're very difficult and then they're like even even as a pet they will be a nightmare to somebody and you cannot just kind of wash your hands and give some puppy like this to some person that has no idea what they got into and next thing you know it's hiding everybody or who the [ __ ] knows. So, but I I I like to judge the people and their ability and understanding and the environment where the dogs are. And often I will get, you know, the classics of when when people want a puppy from me and they will send an email and I'm I'm super active. I'm running five miles every day and whatever. And I'm like, you're not running five miles. Like there's very few people that do that every day. You're just trying to show me that you you can do things and you know, but it's a it's a not an easy, you know, because you cannot just go to somebody's home and evaluate like that was very easy when I was working at guide dogs and we would select, okay, there is somebody that's visually impaired, they apply to get a guide dog. And then what would happen is they will send one of us on a on a trip and go around the potential students and see their lifestyle, see their capability and kind of make a decision if they're suitable or not. I cannot do that with every person that I'm going to sell a dog to. So there is a little bit of a gamble and trust and you kind of hope that it's for the best. And I just try to emphasize that any dog that doesn't work out for whatever reason, the first thing to do is contact me. And hopefully you contact me not before, not contact me with a

list of 20 things that the dog's been doing wrong for the last year, but a little sooner than that. Um, so it's not necessarily the the pet puppy, it's the who are the pet owners. That's that's more important, I guess. Uh, Brad Doran, what's up? Are what are your thoughts and practices of line breeding? Okay, I guess we we kind of covered this one. Um so something that I did not say I'm totally fine to do three four I have done two three I don't know not not that much and I have not done anything closer than that but three four has happened quite you know quite a bit I would say with certain dogs and again having the the beauty today of all the embar tests and all the all the health screening it's a very very helpful for for taking chances like this um Okay. What What genetic health issues do you think future breeders are likely to face after you're gone, man? Yeah. Um, probably the number one thing I I can tell you how we can at least do our job to prevent this is not to continue to wash out the qualities of the dog sports. because they they help us in in so many ways to to do selection as well. When you especially when you are not so deep in the woods as me uh to some extent uh reliable dog sport can really give you some insights and maintain some quality in the breedings. Um, I don't think we can stop backyard breedings. I think it's even ridiculous to think that this is possible. People, again, I I'm about freedom. And if somebody as dumb as they can be and decide to do something. Yeah, it's tough. I wish they didn't, but if I stop them, that means that I'm going to stop me. And that's the dilemma. Um but yeah it can I I don't know if you they have become so popular and as I said I mean and as all of you know the the shelters are full with them now but I still think that they are ugly and they not going to be the doberman or the German shepherd. or or the Rottweiler like there is a

there is this strong tradition and sense of we care about the qualities and not the looks. Even though there is so much crap out there, there is so many bad breedings. Um I I know or I want to hope that the the breeders that there will be people you know again like the the way I'm talking to you right now this kind of conversations I've had myself not on YouTube like in person in somewhere you know drinking beer in some dog club or whatever. But but this knowledge and everything is just gets it's given back and there is always the people that will maintain it I believe. So in my worst case scenario, I see it as having a lot of shitty malignas, but there will be a core group worldwide that will be able to maintain them. And I hope that's true. Um, it seems you have a preference for NVBK at times other than living in Belgium. Why is that? Mhm. Because the rules like the like what the dogs do today, let's say there there is a four 400 points. And when you look at a score of a dog in 1969 and had a score of 365 and you look at the dog today and has a score of 365, this is probably the closest you can be in terms of consistency and that's because the rules haven't bended to animal rights or or show breeders that want to promote their own dog or whatever. It's like, no, there is a straight wall and he either's going to jump it or he's not going to and we're not going to make it lower and there is a broad jump and it's that distance and he either going to jump it or he's not going to. And uh um basically the the criterias have remained the same and they have proven that that's I mean you guys you you again you're here because you're mal malinoa people and I'm sure all of you have seen the first malinoa or any malinoa in 19 or 1899, some black and white photo, and you can see absolutely the same dog. That's one year old today, like identical in every [ __ ] way. And that's that's what makes the breed special. And and I I am convinced that a big part of this is because of the Belgium program. And I don't want to take away anything from the French because they have a insanely cool program. In fact, if I am

to choose anything as far as protection work, French ring sport is absolutely adrenaline rush. It's it's like in my opinion is super cool challenge between it's a very realistic, you know, me against you. Let's see who going to trick who. Um but no matter what good breeders always go back to the roots and the roots are still there. Um again I have right now like when I'm talking about to I have four dogs that are coming out of Belgium I mean sired by Bel by NVBK dogs. So um I think just it's a very easy answer. I think uh we all own what the malinoa today is the good malina in a great extent to to this program you know that's just my take uh let's see something else. This might be a good one. How to raise a Molly puppy to have good nurse. Um, yeah, I think I kind of answered that if you were paying attention. Give it time. Don't obsess. Don't keep poking a weak spot. Allow time to do it job. Like I I was horrible student. Like I was horrible student. I was barely going through at some point just because nothing made sense. It's like why do I need to know when this guy was born or why these guys were fighting or where is Madagascar or like it just there was nobody to you know and with time and maturity you evolve. Um, probably my biggest advice for for people that start with a young puppy is to hopefully if if you trust your breeders or if you're the breeder yourself to give yourself time with every puppy that you take. And that doesn't mean that it's not going to that it's guaranteed that it's going to work out simply because you've given it time. But what that means is that you will gain invaluable experience and knowledge of what is possible just when time is given and maturity comes and things are presented at the right time for for a dog. Um, are the puppies that are really confident and outgoing, do they tend to be the dogs that have a hard time

settling and relaxing as they mature? No. No, that's not a um there are different factors for that and again that's that's much more to do with with breeding and of of course uh um environment can play a role. You can you can make a dog neurotic just because they don't have an outlet. Um, however, I gave it the the pitbull stories at the San Francisco and and it goes the same with Malininoas. Um, as much as it's becoming the norm to to say, "Oh, you need to be very active. You need to you need to do you need to do like every day you need to do otherwise you're not going to be good with Amalino." It's not like that. It's really not like that. At least there are stages, different ages where okay, maybe they need but that's not a constant that's for sure. Um you can you can have a yeah Band dogs and bull herders in protection. We're going to leave this one. Um I'm just reading guys. Give me a second. Let me pick something interesting that we haven't touched on. Yeah, you guys are talking about the shelters. It's devastating. It really is. And that's that's just because it became, oh, I'm a doctor and I have to have a malina or I'm whatever and I have to have one malinoa and you don't. You don't. Unfortunately, it sucks. like I I will I don't want to go too deep in this but I mean we just were in Spain for the world championship and we we rented a Airbnb in the town like downtown. So for a week or so we had to leave a city life. He had to, you know, get up and put the dog on the flexi and get it out and walk it around the block so it can sneiff and pee where everybody else is. And that's not a dog's life. It's not just a malina. That's just not a like that's very selfish for people. And I understand why we need dogs cuz they kind of, you know, they help us go through hard time and have somebody that, you know, loyal and whatever, but dogs are just not meant to live this kind of life. And it's not a malina thing. Um, Brad has a good one. What breeding

kennels overseas are you keeping an eye on? Um, yeah, this an interesting one and I always do. Um, but it's not it's not even a kennel as I was saying like there there is sometimes just a dog and I I trust my friends and my colleagues and sometimes they draw the attention to me or sometimes I I'm just like what why are you breeding to this dog two times already? I mean, it's just living in in that village with the goats there. Like, what what are we doing here? Um, so it's a it's really it's hard to say. And as I was saying, they they move around and you always kind of have to know what you want. That's probably the more important thing because when you know what you want, you can you can start to look for it. Um, I don't it's a hard one to answer because I going to, you know, I I don't want to get confrontational and say what I don't like or who I like and just get gets a little complicated. Um, that's probably more on a personal level of conversation than a YouTube life. Um, that's a good one. Ellie Ellie says, "I'm just a pet owner, but it it makes it a tougher decision to adopt rescue versus buying from a breeder when you want to help a dog versus having a dog assurance type of dog you are getting." Yeah, very true. And I don't know what to tell you on this. Um, I mean, I have I have two rescues right now and I have a another one that's not a rescue, but it came back and not all of them are malos, but I do have rescue dogs just cuz and and I wasn't searching for them. They kind of found me and and that's how it is. And I think, you know, I think that's also very individual and you have to do what feels right to you. And I have I I really admire people that do take stray dogs and dogs from the shelter and give them an amazing life. I think it's it's super cool. Um, but I also know that, you know, if you want to go and go on the racetrack and you want to race against the the top cars, you cannot do it with a false [ __ ] golf or whatever, right? Um, so that that's a yeah, you you ultimately those decisions are long-term decisions and and once you make it, you got to have that commitment and think think it through. And once you make it, you got to stick with it. Um, yeah. What breeding practices do you think caused Malinoa to have the reputation of

being highly neuroric? Yeah. Um uh I I I mean I guess a lot has to do with just okay I have a malinoa and you have a malinoa and they need to have puppies cuz it's good for them and we have puppies and then you go at the gas station and you see a sign free puppies or $200 puppies and then somebody gets it and they didn't even need it And um and there is no there is really no understanding of selection. So you you know it's not hard to breed nerve wrecks. It's really not hard. Um but it's the life we live in the Yeah. All right. Let me see. We do couple of more and then I see what else I have to tell you if I have and we're going to wrap it up. We've been on for quite some time. Um Brad is asking what are the traits I look for? So, if you go back to what I was saying, it depends if I'm looking for something more primitive or something more of the trainable dog. And then the health consideration for sure. Um, it's a big factor. health is even even something like skin allergy, you know, even if it's a mild skin allergy, it can turn into nightmare as a breeder. Um, so the health stuff is super important and then just knowing what you need. Like I'm so clear in my head today, it's weird. Um, I mean, I'm still searching and still challenging and still, you know, there is always an element of gambling, which is kind of the cool part, I guess, too, of of breeding, but it's it's you're not just throwing the dices in the dark and hoping that, you know, um, so I may like a very very affectionate dog. I may like some very independent dog. I I just take them as who they are and then see if they can contribute something to what I'm trying to maintain or regain or do something new. So it's not a it's not necessarily a specific dog. The things that I I'm again very strong. I wouldn't even say reluctant. I'm very very strong about not it's the health and any kind of generic predisposition like a like an noise sensitivity for example. Noise sensitivity is one of the very cool things about uh um you know it can expose a dog very quickly. um who they are genetically. And there are of course levels of that

just like with everything else. And with something you can work with and something you just don't even want to bother because it it's pointless and it's not even fair. Um I was going to say something more here. Um, yeah, I really had something to add here to this. Um, what are the traits I look for? It's so it's a damn this is a it sounds so easy for me to answer but here I am struggling to answer it because probably because it just comes so intuitively to me at this point. Um I guess you know and this is difficult one because you can you know taking a chance and saying well this is training. That's not who the dog really is. That's not the home base of the dog. That's just shitty training. that's why he has this shallow bites and that's why he's all or it's not that's who he is that's his genetic makeup and I guess that comes kind of with experience and also taking a chance as I was saying there is that gambling and is it really worth it but there are many many cases where uh uh breedings like this have happened and they have made a great success passes and as I said like any dog that it's on the top of the world right now or yesterday or 5 years ago or 20 years ago for sure it was a bumpy road. For sure there were things and and it came down to how do we handle it and and where do we what we can compensate and what we can live with. Um, yeah. Not sure if I even I'm answering this one. Although, any personal experience with Magberger Cherroski? Yeah, I mean, Mia is a good friend of mine. I have him. He's he's in in few dogs in my pedigree. Few of my very favorite dogs in my pedigree. Um and that also has an interesting story and that's again it's a thing that you know like somebody with knowledge that they did their homework and they made the selection and they took the chances and I kind of take it for granted and use that because I already see it that it is a cool thing to do you know um but yeah he was a he was a good dog I remember me being at Mia's place in the winter, [ __ ] February, at 1:00 a.m.

drinking and next thing you know, we are outside in the ice like just frozen ground and we are training and and it was him, you know, just talking about [ __ ] and um but that's where, you know, it's it's a as much as you are on your own with breeding, you cannot be on your own. You have to you have to kind of expand and and build some trust to to other people that are also in the same boat because it saves time and you become way more efficient that way and again sometimes you will make the mistakes you know. No question. Um people maybe we should do more of this some other day. Um, as I said earlier, like I I really just feel like I know quite a bit and I cannot keep it for myself. It's just not like why. Um, and especially especially It becomes super frustrating with social media and people talking about Malininoas and have one or two or three but it's just like you you you don't know like you clearly don't know the moment you start talking about them you don't know but you're teaching everybody else and it's a strange world we are in today. Um, there's of course always something good that comes out of this. Um, but I hope it kind of balances out a little bit and and um, yeah, it's crazy one. So, as I said, I I don't know like I I really have this was just almost like a I felt that I wanted to talk about it because of this social media and and because of the shelters full with dogs and because of the all the sport people and and police that want to have a good dog, but they make mistakes either in select ction or being patient or not understanding or getting stuck with a dog that they shouldn't be with. Um, I don't know. Hopefully, I gave you some interesting food for thought and I think I'm going to I'll do something better than this. That was kind of my practice. Um I I really feel I have a lot that um can be can be said and yeah we've been three hours on this. It's crazy. And I kept you all in. So makes it makes it good for me. makes me confident that that there's people that are interested and and you know it's kind of one of the things that we collectively can do about making that breed what it is and keeping it what it is and you know

so if you are not subscribed to my channel I would appreciate it, but you don't have to. Um um yeah, most likely I don't know if what kind of format it could be something more specific and we can tackle different like just just really go dive much deeper into any of the subjects that I kind of I really scratching the surface just really trying to give you some of my ideas and and knowledge. to to get you to see that there is it's interesting and there is a lot and and the more of us are on the same page the better the breed's going to be. All right people thank you for joining me and um yeah I will announce something seems like it can be interesting. So if there is any ideas uh of any kind of topic you can always put later in the comments. We do check the comments and it does give me ideas what to talk about. Sometimes I just talk because I come up with stuff that I should be talking about. But uh um yeah, next time see you guys. Thank you for listening to me for so long. I love the hearts. Thank you guys.